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Was defeat actually a victory for Klitschko?

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Sun 30 Apr 2017, 12:16 am

First topic message reminder :

Klitschko lost... but was this defeat a victory for him. He had dominated the HW scene for a decade and even though he was the best HW he was labelled as boring, and his fights were labelled as boring.

Was this the greatest fight he has been involved in? Even though Klitschko lost how amazing is it for him to be involved in such an entertaining fight and made even more great that he was doing it at the age of 41 after being out of the ring for nearly 2 years against the current undefeated champion who was the massive favourite and who has a perfect record of 18 wins all by KO.

Will this fight cement Wlad's legacy as one of the greatest HWs? He came back from a brutal knockdown early in the fight, showed great character and strength and every fan felt that their money was well spent on the fight.

For me even though he lost the fight I think he came out of this very well. A 41 year old man who has not been in the ring for nearly 2 years put up such a great showing against the current champ. What a great fight.

Reminds me a little of rocky balboa where even though rocky lost, he put up a great fight and pushed the champ all the way to the end and showed that even at his old age he could still put up a fight.

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Post by compelling and rich on Mon 01 May 2017, 12:14 pm

there is no way fury is faster than aj

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Post by horizontalhero on Mon 01 May 2017, 10:14 pm

BoxingFan88 wrote:Anyone saying Aj should have let his hands go to get wlad out of there must have watched the fight with their eyes closed

He tried that and paid dearly for it when he got separated from his senses by a left hook and then nearly lost the fight

He didn't recover from that shot for a few rounds and wlad nearly got him out of there as well

You can't just walk in on wlad it's suicide he has superb defence great footwork and positioning

Really? it seemed to me that when stood off and boxed for the first 3 rounds , Wlad picked him off fairly comfortably, whereas his successes all came when he forced Wlad on to the back foot. Yes got got too reckless in the 5th, but at the start of that round he had his best success. If he had just continued along as he did for the opening round, he would have lost. What Lloyd Honeyghan called intelligent pressure is what was needed.

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Post by BoxingFan88 on Tue 02 May 2017, 9:02 am

horizontalhero wrote:
BoxingFan88 wrote:Anyone saying Aj should have let his hands go to get wlad out of there must have watched the fight with their eyes closed

He tried that and paid dearly for it when he got separated from his senses by a left hook and then nearly lost the fight

He didn't recover from that shot for a few rounds and wlad nearly got him out of there as well

You can't just walk in on wlad it's suicide he has superb defence great footwork and positioning

Really? it seemed to me that when stood off and boxed for the first 3 rounds , Wlad picked him off fairly comfortably, whereas his successes all came when he forced Wlad on to the back foot. Yes got got too reckless in the 5th, but at the start of that round he had his best success. If he had just continued along as he did for the opening round, he would have lost. What Lloyd Honeyghan called intelligent pressure is what was needed.

He needed to be educated though, you can throw more punches without being reckless, when he went hell for leather he nearly got KOed

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 May 2017, 9:09 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
milkyboy wrote:Yet to see the fight, so a few questions.

Did wlad really miss an opportunity to go for it after round 6, or did he gas himself out after rounds 5 and 6 and not have it in the tank?

Before the fight, vitality said that wlad's weakness is concentration. Did he lose concentration at the start if the 11th or was he just exhausted and unable to withstand a resurgent Joshua?

Did the corner send AJ out telling him he needed a KO?

Two judges cards had AJ up after 10, most I've heard had wlad up. Were we in danger of a homecooked decision?

Sorry to highjack thread, but to answer OP, I think as defeats go this looks like a warrior going out on his shield compared to his last fight.


Wlad went for it at the end of the 5th and most of the 6th so would assume he was gassing himself at the time, certainly wasn't overly cautious prior to that.

There were so many adverts between rounds i'm not sure what the corners advice was and going into the 11th I had the fight even; 1, 2, 3, 5 & 10 for AJ the rest for Wlad.

I had it even as well but with a slightly different mix of rounds, but I think I was probably being generous to AJ. I can see how some may have had Wlad 1 or 2 up, but I can't see how anyone could have had AJ up by 2 or 3.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue 02 May 2017, 10:06 am

superflyweight wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Wlad went for it at the end of the 5th and most of the 6th so would assume he was gassing himself at the time, certainly wasn't overly cautious prior to that.

There were so many adverts between rounds i'm not sure what the corners advice was and going into the 11th I had the fight even; 1, 2, 3, 5 & 10 for AJ the rest for Wlad.

I had it even as well but with a slightly different mix of rounds, but I think I was probably being generous to AJ.  I can see how some may have had Wlad 1 or 2 up, but I can't see how anyone could have had AJ up by 2 or 3.    
I agree there's no way AJ was up at the time of the stoppage and probably gave him the 1st and 2nd when he didn't necessarily deserve them. Not that it really matters but it could make it harder to make fights if the others don't think they'll get fair scoring over here.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 02 May 2017, 10:25 am

If you're Wilder and Parker...40/60 purses against Joshua after his coming out party on Saturday.

Are going to be worth the risk.

He's a big star now.


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Post by superflyweight on Tue 02 May 2017, 10:31 am

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Wlad went for it at the end of the 5th and most of the 6th so would assume he was gassing himself at the time, certainly wasn't overly cautious prior to that.

There were so many adverts between rounds i'm not sure what the corners advice was and going into the 11th I had the fight even; 1, 2, 3, 5 & 10 for AJ the rest for Wlad.

I had it even as well but with a slightly different mix of rounds, but I think I was probably being generous to AJ.  I can see how some may have had Wlad 1 or 2 up, but I can't see how anyone could have had AJ up by 2 or 3.    
I agree there's no way AJ was up at the time of the stoppage and probably gave him the 1st and 2nd when he didn't necessarily deserve them. Not that it really matters but it could make it harder to make fights if the others don't think they'll get fair scoring over here.

I gave him the first because I had to split them and thought he was slightly busier but in all reality it was a 10-10 round. 2nd round was similar and in the interests of parity I gave it to Wlad.

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Post by Mr H on Tue 02 May 2017, 4:45 pm

I think the biggest compliment I can give Joshua is that if Klitschko fights like that against Fury, Wilder, Parker, Ortiz etc I think Klitschko wins.

I think the gun shy Wlad we saw against Fury was a freak one off, Fury got inside his head but that would never happen if they fought again and I'd fancy Wlad to stop Fury. If he got caught with the shot that got AJ in round 6 I'm not sure Fury would recover from it. Verdict - Wlad TKO.

Wilder could catch Wlad but for me AJ is a better boxer than Wilder especially on the inside. Wilder is exactly what his name says - wild. His CV is terrible, he's been in trouble a few times against journeymen and I'd back Klitschko to beat him all day long. Verdict - Either late stoppage or UD for Wlad.

Parker is bang average for me, again he's never fought anyone of note. I think he would have struggled against Hughie Fury and probably nicked a dodgy SD but would you put money on Parker to beat the likes of Whyte, Chisora, Pulev? I actually think Bellew would beat Parker. Verdict - Wlad TKO or UD.

I'm not blowing smoke up AJ's backside, but I think a lot of people are missing the magnitude of his win. An 18 fight novice fighting a very very good Klitschko, getting smoked in the 6th and coming back to win. It was impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if we look back in 5 years and view this as AJ's toughest ever fight.

As for Wlad, I can't forget the decade of boredom but I'm not sure that's soley his fault. He just didn't have the competition. But I definitely think he's come away from Wembley with more fans than what he had when he went in.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Fri 05 May 2017, 12:26 am

Mr H wrote:I think the biggest compliment I can give Joshua is that if Klitschko fights like that against Fury, Wilder, Parker, Ortiz etc I think Klitschko wins.

I think the gun shy Wlad we saw against Fury was a freak one off, Fury got inside his head but that would never happen if they fought again and I'd fancy Wlad to stop Fury. If he got caught with the shot that got AJ in round 6 I'm not sure Fury would recover from it. Verdict - Wlad TKO.

Wilder could catch Wlad but for me AJ is a better boxer than Wilder especially on the inside. Wilder is exactly what his name says - wild. His CV is terrible, he's been in trouble a few times against journeymen and I'd back Klitschko to beat him all day long. Verdict - Either late stoppage or UD for Wlad.

Parker is bang average for me, again he's never fought anyone of note. I think he would have struggled against Hughie Fury and probably nicked a dodgy SD but would you put money on Parker to beat the likes of Whyte, Chisora, Pulev? I actually think Bellew would beat Parker. Verdict - Wlad TKO or UD.

I'm not blowing smoke up AJ's backside, but I think a lot of people are missing the magnitude of his win. An 18 fight novice fighting a very very good Klitschko, getting smoked in the 6th and coming back to win. It was impressive. I wouldn't be surprised if we look back in 5 years and view this as AJ's toughest ever fight.

As for Wlad, I can't forget the decade of boredom but I'm not sure that's soley his fault. He just didn't have the competition. But I definitely think he's come away from Wembley with more fans than what he had when he went in.

I ahree with nearly everything you said apart from calling aj a novice. He is an Olympic gold medallist and a current world champion. Yes he has only had 18 fights but he is no novice, he is a world champion.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 05 May 2017, 9:20 am

Can't remember exactly who I gave each of the first four, but I know it I gave two each, therefore my scoring looked like the below. Wlad 2 up after 10, if he'd heard the bell in the 11th AJ 1 up going into the 12th:

AJ Wlad
1 10 9
2 10 9
3 9 10
4 9 10
5 10 8
6 8 10
7 9 10
8 9 10
9 9 10
10 10 9
93 95
11 10 7
103 102

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 May 2017, 12:28 pm

Musclular-mouse wrote:I ahree with nearly everything you said apart from calling aj a novice. He is an Olympic gold medallist and a current world champion. Yes he has only had 18 fights but he is no novice, he is a world champion.
To call AJ a novice before his fight with Klitschko is fair - and he clearly is - his technique is very limited and he has much to learn.  There is a big difference between professional boxing and amateur boxing imo.  We can say he had excellent amateur pedigree, but professional boxing is something else.  Be interesting to know what percentage of Olympic champions go on to become world professional champions.

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Post by smashingstormcrow on Fri 05 May 2017, 1:12 pm

No... novice means "inexperienced" or "beginner". You could argue he was a novice back when he was fighting Matt Skelton or "TBA", but not these days. Even if you consider his style to be crude, it's not accurate to describe him as a novice.

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 May 2017, 1:41 pm

Fair enough - I think I got a bit carried away there.  On reflection I accept he certainly wasn't a novice when facing Klitschko and I feel embarrassed now for suggesting it. OK

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 05 May 2017, 1:58 pm

Don't feel embarassed Bertie. Even Eddie Hearn keeps referring to him as a novice.

It's been annoying me for a while actually. Not quite as much as hearing 'THE YOUNG LION' keep getting spouted left right and centre. Sick to death of hearing it.

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Post by melv500 on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:29 pm

Or all the pictures flying around of him in standing over Klit similar to the famous Ali pose. Actually read people on Facebook saying AJ is the greatest now. There are just no words....

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:32 pm

One of the things I forgot to consider - was all the training camps with the hours upon hours of fight simulation sparring that goes into preparing each and every professional fight. So even when he knocked a boxer out in the first or second round - he would have been developing his skills in the training camp.

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:39 pm

melv500 wrote:Or all the pictures flying around of him in standing over Klit similar to the famous Ali pose. Actually read people on Facebook saying AJ is the greatest now. There are just no words....

So agree! Ridiculous. Ali looks ferocious in his picture, AJ looks knackered in his IMO, haha.

This is half the reason why I can't warm to AJ. Sick of the love in and all the hype!

Don't get me wrong, it's good that this country gets behind most of it's big sportig personalities and AJ is doing a great job of representing the sport for us, but jeez.

Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

I've probably got a chip on my shoulder, but it annoys me and it winds me up lol. Same when Cheltenhams on and everybody is a horse racing expert all of a sudden, but the rest of the year I have nobody to talk racing to. Zzzzzzzz!

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:45 pm

EX7EY wrote:Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

Why do you care that someone wants to watch a big event in British boxing? You'd prefer if people only watch if they've got a season ticket at York Hall?

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Post by EX7EY on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:48 pm

Scottrf wrote:
EX7EY wrote:Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

Why do you care that someone wants to watch a big event in British boxing? You'd prefer if people only watch if they've got a season ticket at York Hall?

Here come the thought police, you can bore off as well buddy Very Happy

I said I probably have a chip on my shoulder, but it irks me and it always will. I can't stand people diving on the band wagon. Simple as that.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 05 May 2017, 2:50 pm

EX7EY wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
EX7EY wrote:Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

Why do you care that someone wants to watch a big event in British boxing? You'd prefer if people only watch if they've got a season ticket at York Hall?

Here come the thought police, you can bore off as well buddy Very Happy

I said I probably have a chip on my shoulder, but it irks me and it always will. I can't stand people diving on the band wagon. Simple as that.

Alright but don't be thinking of voting in the general election unless you've been active in politics for the rest of the year thumbsup

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 05 May 2017, 3:06 pm

EX7EY wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
EX7EY wrote:Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

Why do you care that someone wants to watch a big event in British boxing? You'd prefer if people only watch if they've got a season ticket at York Hall?

Here come the thought police, you can bore off as well buddy Very Happy

I said I probably have a chip on my shoulder, but it irks me and it always will. I can't stand people diving on the band wagon. Simple as that.
Odd seeing as you've jumped on the 'real boxing fan' bandwagon.

You're a clown.

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Post by Rodney on Fri 05 May 2017, 4:50 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
EX7EY wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
EX7EY wrote:Hate seeing on facebook come AJ fight nights loads of women going on about watching 'the fight' with a little wine glass and fist emoji - BORE OFF! Where were you last weekend when Murray fought Rosado? Where were you when AJ was fighting Michael Sprott etc? Nowhere to be bloody seen. Flavour of the month fans that just want to be involved in whatever the latest trending hashtag is. Winds me up!

Why do you care that someone wants to watch a big event in British boxing? You'd prefer if people only watch if they've got a season ticket at York Hall?

Here come the thought police, you can bore off as well buddy Very Happy

I said I probably have a chip on my shoulder, but it irks me and it always will. I can't stand people diving on the band wagon. Simple as that.
Odd seeing as you've jumped on the 'real boxing fan' bandwagon.

You're a clown.

What a forlorn soul you are Hammer.
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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Fri 05 May 2017, 4:53 pm

You forgot...

Cheers Rodders

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Post by Dylan1979 on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:00 pm

I must admit the hype around AJ in this country is way over the top. Seems like you don't have to do much to be a 'great' in this era, same with other sports, football especially. I blame the corporations who own the sports & athletes - create as many superstars as possible purely to milk the fans. Very fine line between sport and entertainment these days, maybe that line doesn't even exist anymore.

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Post by Guest on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:31 pm

We live in a hyped up world - which includes the media going crazy to out do each other.

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Post by Dylan1979 on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:36 pm

BREAKING NEWS ON SKY SPORTS - ANTHONY JOSHUA JUST BOUGHT A NEW PAIR OF BEATS HEADPHONES

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Post by melv500 on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:46 pm

Im totally with you all. I can't deny he looks a decent fighter with massive power. His fight with Klit was great but I just cannot warm to the guy. His interviews just stink of media training and he is rammed down our throats. I saw before the fight he bought his old trainer a car. Ok nice gesture but ruined by the fact he filmed it for PR purposes. Then also "apprently" lives at home with his Mum. Why the f*** would he do that??? Then first thing he buys with money (the prob hasn't hit his bank account) after the Klit fight is a present for his mum. It's all just so false and to generate more money from his fights. Should probably blame Eddie but I just hate all the fakeness.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 05 May 2017, 5:53 pm

melv500 wrote:Im totally with you all. I can't deny he looks a decent fighter with massive power. His fight with Klit was great but I just cannot warm to the guy. His interviews just stink of media training and he is rammed down our throats. I saw before the fight he bought his old trainer a car. Ok nice gesture but ruined by the fact he filmed it for PR purposes. Then also "apprently" lives at home with his Mum. Why the f*** would he do that??? Then first thing he buys with money (the prob hasn't hit his bank account) after the Klit fight is a present for his mum. It's all just so false and to generate more money from his fights. Should probably blame Eddie but I just hate all the fakeness.

I know, it's just so corporate and fake.






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Post by EX7EY on Sat 06 May 2017, 9:48 am

Yawn hammersmith. I've not jumped on any bandwagon, I started getting seriously into boxing around 11 years ago, and it's now the number 1 sport I follow, closely followed by horse racing as my 2nd.

I used to be seriously into my football, and I was playing semi professional until I tore my ACL, and slowly over the years I've become less and less interested in football.

Im not on any bandwagon, I like what I like, I don't get involved just because it's flavour of the month on social media and the whole culture of people that jump on the boxing bandwagon and make out like they've got a clue is becoming annoying, to me anyway.

I forgot why you're on my ignore list, but now I know. You're an odious little creature aren't you haha

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