Rome

Interesting draw.

Murray v Fognini round 2
Dimitrov v Del Potro round 1
Djokovic v Kyrgios round 3

Murray/Stan in top half. Djokovic/Nadal in bottom half.
Projected qf
Murray v Raonic
Stan v Cilic
Nadal v Thiem
Djokovic v Nishikori

Who is the main favorite to win the title?

summerblues wrote:Who is the main favorite to win the title?

Er, Rafa - believe it or not.

Bedene, who is now the British number two, came thru qualifying but was close to defeat against a lowly-ranked Italian in the first round proper before taking the second set. Bedene was leading 3-0 in the final set when his opponent retired.
Sharapova (boo, hiss) won her opening round match against McHale of US and, sadly, has now qualified for the Wimbledon qualies.

Nice to see Del Potro hitting top spin backhands. They're a bit pushy, but better than a slice.

Del po through in three. Excellent result for him. Murray could hardly have had a more awkward first-match opponent than Fognini. But with the Italian, who knows what will happen ? He can be brilliant - or awful.

Kyrgios has withdrawn from Rome with a hip injury- so that probably wasn't helping him vs Rafa in Madrid.

Still think he has it in him to win a major in the next 5 years

Kyrgios was obviously injured against Rafa. He served 1 ace in the whole match, the following day Goffin served 2 aces past Nadal. I am pretty sure Kyrgios has a much better serve than Goffin.

I think he can win a major in the next 2-3 years. If Wimbledon or US Open was played tomorrow you would have to give him a chance. Once the big four stop sweeping up he's as well placed as anyone.

sirfredperry wrote:Del po through in three. Excellent result for him. Murray could hardly have had a more awkward first-match opponent than Fognini. But with the Italian, who knows what will happen ? He can be brilliant - or awful.

Salient and prescient - Fognini takes the first set 6-2 ... and is leading 4-1 in second set with a double break.  Murray heading for a heavy defeat.

Now 5-1 to Fognini in second set.  Murray to serve
5-2.  Murray had difficulty holding serve.  Now Fognini to serve for the match.
5-3.  Murray breaks eventually.  Still one break down.  Murray to serve to stay in match.
5-4.  Murray holds with a bit of difficulty.  Fognini to serve for the match.
6-4. Fognini serves out the match to 15. So 6-2 6-4 to Fognini and an excellent result. Back to the drawing board for Andy Murray. He is not having a great 2017 season.

Oh dear

Shame really but he's obviously not able to bring his best either physically or otherwise right now

I'm sure there will be a post mortem and a customary troll comment as per usual thinking it makes them cool

But there's no point really. It's just picking on someone when they're down.

He needs to do what's healthy for him. Even if that means a break

Thank god fedal came back or we'd have a very abrupt drop at the top

I forgot to mention that Andy Murray was defending champion beating Djokovic 6-3 6-3 in last years final. I wonder whether it is just poor form or a niggling injury he just isn't able to overcome at the moment.

temporary21 wrote:He needs to do what's healthy for him. Even if that means a break

Yep. He should do the brave thing and skip the French. He's not been as bad as this on the dirt since 2009

I always felt, that following the elbow problem, he wouldn't be at his best until the US Open

Put simply he's terrible at finding form after such setbacks (wrist 2007, back 2013/4 and now this

Well I think we all here know his normal level or even poor level  is much better than this. He's also not one to lose this easily ever

Unless you think he's a fraud of course but I'm assuming I'm talking to the grown ups

I would say it's his elbow. Hence why he's being broken all the time

That needs to heal. So he needs to skip the french or whatever he needs to to either get healthy or rest himself.

Goodness - it's all falling open for Nadal on the clay this season.  He has a chance to put together 5 titles and no defeats.  Even better than 2010 when he won 4 titles with no defeats on clay.  What chance he has played himself into confidence that will see his game away from the clay step up.....?  

Given their respective difficulties over the last few years, it seems utterly bizarre that the only player to have beaten Nadal at all consistently this season is Federer.

Outstanding performance from Fognini, wiped the floor with the so called 'world #1'. Fognini should've beaten Nadal in Madrid, so the demolition of a far inferior player shouldn't be at all surprising.

Andy is having a horror run - perhaps his worst ever. At least he's not doing as badly as Kafelnikov who had six weeks at number one and didn't win a match during that period.
Those who reckon Raf and Rog could end up as the top two come the season's end could well be spot on.
Amazingly, Andy was still as high as 11th in the year-end points race table at the start of Rome. It's not as if the others are exactly tearing up trees at the moment, either.

Time for Lendl to earn whatever fee he is being paid. Murray is not blaming injury or tiredness for his slump. Just says he is playing badly but doesn't really know why. Says he wasn't moving well these last two tournaments. If that is all that is wrong Lendl arriving and working with him may get to the root of the problem.

My own thoughts are that there is more to it. No way he should be losing his serve as frequently as he is, twice or three times in sets.

Strangely I think Murray has less to worry about than Djokovic, despite him getting worse results.

I don't know why really.

I expect him to be winning big titles again this season.

sirfredperry wrote:Andy is having a horror run - perhaps his worst ever. At least he's not doing as badly as Kafelnikov who had six weeks at number one and didn't win a match during that period.
  Those who reckon Raf and Rog could end up as the top two come the season's end could well be spot on.
  Amazingly, Andy was still as high as 11th in the year-end points race table at the start of Rome. It's not as if the others are exactly tearing up trees at the moment, either.

I thought that was an outrageous stat, re Kaf, so I looked it up. Unfortunately he won 6 and lost 4 in that time. Shame.

sirfredperry wrote:Andy is having a horror run - perhaps his worst ever. At least he's not doing as badly as Kafelnikov who had six weeks at number one and didn't win a match during that period.
  Those who reckon Raf and Rog could end up as the top two come the season's end could well be spot on.
  Amazingly, Andy was still as high as 11th in the year-end points race table at the start of Rome. It's not as if the others are exactly tearing up trees at the moment, either.

So Andy Murray is not having a horror run? His current run is borderline top ten - which includes a period where he was off with an elbow injury. So this is a dip rather than a horror run. The question is whether he will come out of this dip in form. It is reported that Ivan Lendl is due to join him soon in preparation for Roland Garros.

Isner a set and a break up on Stan. Goffin out to Cilic.

Good chance for Raonic, Zverev or Cilic to make the final here.

Could argue that the four favourites for this tournament are in the bottom half - Nadal, Djokovic, Thiem and Nishikori.

Luvsports. Many apologies. Don't know where I got my Kafelnikov figures from, but it certainly wasn't from the official records. 
   Further apologies about the "horror run" - although to those who expect to see Murray winning week after week, it certainly seems a fairly unsuccessful period.
   Stan has gone out to Isner. The Swiss not having a particularly good time of it, either.

sirfredperry wrote:window.post_1495121613040_5 = function(win,msg){ win.postMessage(msg,"*"); }

I was going to say that, but you beat me to it.

That needed to be said Fred. Window post was tearing this country apart. Brave man.

Anyway when nadalovic on today?

Djoko's already won in straight sets. Rafa on later.

This window.post thing appeared at the end of my message timed 4.42pm. Don't know what it was all about but deleted it at 4.47pm.

Internal code.

Looks like how it converts a message written in your text window to a message on the board

temporary21 wrote:Internal code.

Looks like how it converts a message written in your text window to a message on the board

 Ta for that. Latest from Rome is that Delpo has beaten Nishi in straight sets. Very good win for him. He really needs a good run to get that ranking up so he doesn't meet the big boys too early.

Thiem becoming some sort of mental giant. Saving match points against Querry before winning. Still want to see him play the big points better against the very best players, if he starts to do that then he's a very serious contender on clay.

Rafa was comfortable against Sock. Sock actually played very well in the second set before the inevitable collapse at 4-4.

Some interesting matches today - Zverev v Raonic, Cilic v Isner, Nadal v Thiem and Del Potro v Djokovic. Big severs are dominating the top half of the draw.

I predict wins for Raonic, Cilic, Nadal and Del Potro.

sirfredperry wrote:Luvsports. Many apologies. Don't know where I got my Kafelnikov figures from, but it certainly wasn't from the official records. 
   Further apologies about the "horror run" - although to those who expect to see Murray winning week after week, it certainly seems a fairly unsuccessful period.
   Stan has gone out to Isner. The Swiss not having a particularly good time of it, either.

No need to apologise pal, I just wished it was true!

low form from murray and stan generates yet another unbalanced draw

raonic -zverev
isner - cilic
thiem - nadal
djokovic - del potro

My prediction:

zverev - cilic
nadal - djokovic

At this point I have a bad feeling this could be a cake walk run for Nadal at the French Open. I don't mind seeing Nadal win but I hope he is at least properly tested at some point.

Thiem is showing good form and is improving all the time but I don't think he has the mental toughness yet to really push Rafa when it matters.

For me we really need a strong performance from Djokovic this week. He has proven to be the one player that can really challenge Nadal in Paris over the years. Let's be honest Nadal has always been dominant on clay but if Novak could somehow rediscover form this week and even push Nadal really close this time around (assuming they win their respective QFs) it could at least make things slightly interesting.

I am certainly not holding out much hope of a return to form for Djokovic but without it, I really cannot see anybody else capable of challenging Nadal in Paris. Wawrinka has gone walkabouts again. The good news as a Djokovic fan is at least novak is getting some tough matches, nadal last week, bautista agut a good player yesterday and del potro today. If he can start coming through some of these tighter matches, you just never know but for me he is still miles away from where he needs to be. A near miracle required for a French open upset. I would love to see Novak win today and at least take Nadal into a deciding set in the semis. He needs to find a way to plant some seed of doubt in Nadals mind.

As for Murray, he has fallen away badly this year. Perhaps the pressure of being number one is getting to him. He had such an incredible 2nd half to 2016 and I am sure it took a lot out of him. I watched the Fognini match and he was actually flattered with the scoreline. It could have been far worse. I have no doubt we will Murray back in form at Wimbledon but he will certainly be concerned with his form going into it.

Who else can realistically challenge Nadal in Paris? the only other way of Nadal losing would be somebody catching him cold in the first couple of rounds. However winning 3 sets on clay against Nadal in this form is near impossible.

It will be interesting to see how Novak gets on against Del Potro today. Novak has a very good record against him (13-4 and he did win the last meeting recently) but we all know that Del Potro can beat anybody on his day and he had a great win over Nishikori yesterday so he must be in decent form.

del potro has 4 wins against novak, but two came in olimpics and one in davis cup... those are different matches, and it is clear delpo performs better when representing his country (he even gave nadal a good fight in davis cup final on clay in spain in 2011)

Yes he did win 4 matches but he has lost 13 times. Also in the most important matches (4 grand slam meetings, I think most will agree that slams are the biggest prize in tennis) Novak won all 4 of the slam meetings between the pair.

I really like Del Potro and I hope he makes a big come back. He is a very likeable guy and he is a beast on the court when he brings his A game

slashermcguirk wrote:At this point I  have a bad feeling this could be a cake walk run for Nadal at the French Open. I don't mind seeing Nadal win but I hope he is at least properly tested at some point.

Thiem is showing good form and is improving all the time but I don't think he has the mental toughness yet to really push Rafa when it matters.

For me we really need a strong performance from Djokovic this week. He has proven to be the one player that can really challenge Nadal in Paris over the years. Let's be honest Nadal has always been dominant on clay but if Novak could somehow rediscover form this week and even push Nadal really close this time around (assuming they win their respective QFs) it could at least make things slightly interesting.

I am certainly not holding out much hope of a return to form for Djokovic but without it, I really cannot see anybody else capable of challenging Nadal in Paris. Wawrinka has gone walkabouts again. The good news as a Djokovic fan is at least novak is getting some tough matches, nadal last week, bautista agut a good player yesterday and del potro today. If he can start coming through some of these tighter matches, you just never know but for me he is still miles away from where he needs to be. A near miracle required for a French open upset. I would love to see Novak win today and at least take Nadal into a deciding set in the semis. He needs to find a way to plant some seed of doubt in Nadals mind.

As for Murray, he has fallen away badly this year. Perhaps the pressure of being number one is getting to him. He had such an incredible 2nd half to 2016 and I am sure it took a lot out of him. I watched the Fognini match and he was actually flattered with the scoreline. It could have been far worse. I have no doubt we will Murray back in form at Wimbledon but he will certainly be concerned with his form going into it.

Who else can realistically challenge Nadal in Paris? the only other way of Nadal losing would be somebody catching him cold in the first couple of rounds. However winning 3 sets on clay against Nadal in this form is near impossible.

It will be interesting to see how Novak gets on against Del Potro today. Novak has a very good record against him (13-4 and he did win the last meeting recently) but we all know that Del Potro can beat anybody on his day and he had a great win over Nishikori yesterday so he must be in decent form.

Think Nadal will be looking to avoid Fognini and Del Potro in the early rounds. Short of someone 'doing a Rosol' they are the only two players likely to be unseeded or lowly enough seeded to play him early, that could give him problems.

Would then probably want to avoid Kyrgios (if fully fit) and Thiem.

Finally - Djokovic, Murray or Wawrinka could come into form and would then realistically have a chance against Nadal.

If Djokovic makes the final against Rafa he could have played himself back into form by then...

I find all of this unlikely to happen. Pretty sure Nadal will be winning La Decima.

Guest82, I agree someone like Del Potro could threaten in an early rounds though highly unlikely to win. It really does take a Fognini, Verdasco type in the opening rounds swinging free and with absolutely nothing to lose. The problem with this type of aggressive playing style is trying to sustain that level for 3 sets, almost impossible.

Thiem could take a set off him. Kyrgios no chance on clay I reckon, Nadal destroyed him in Madrid for the loss of only a few games I think. Kyrgios more dangerious on hard court or maybe grass.

Murray is in very poor form. He had made strong inroads last year on clay but I can see Murray being vulnerable in the early rounds and for me I would be surprised to see him go past the QF this year (only because of his form this year).

Wawrinka is just so random but again I can see him getting upset by somebody around 3rd or 4th round.

Unless Djokovic sorts himself out he could also be vulnerable in the early stages but his track record at the French open is good and my hope is that he could try to build some form and play his way into the tournament.

I still think though this all being said, Nadal is going to win and quite comfortably at that.

Del Potro has been good on clay previously and has also beaten Dimitrov and Nishikori this week. I think he has the ability, game and mental strength to potentially beat Rafa, but it's a long shot.

Thiem actually looks closest in terms of level, but when it comes to the big points he's not ready to beat Nadal.

Kyrgios was injured in Madrid, he probably isn't really a danger on clay but I don't think the Madrid match is a true reflection. His serve alone potentially gets him into a tie break.

Murray could struggle through a few rounds and then click, same with Djokovic.

Actually think Nadal at 1.8 on Betfair is a good bet though.

I really wish Nishikori would kick on in his career. I really fancied him to win a grand slam by now, he has all the shots and is such a great ball striker. I think his problem is his serve, he just doesn't get enough free points and has to grind his way through service games time and again. If he had a bigger serve he would be so hard to beat.

He is also prone to injury and is not as physically strong as some of the top players. On the other hand he has an amazing record in 5 set matches.

Nishikori's window is getting smaller all the time. He's 27 now and thought he might sneak a slam or two in between the big four generation and the Kyrgios/Zverev generation.

As it stands the big four (+ Stan) are winning them all and the longer that lasts then the more likely he is to be overtaken by the next generation.

I agree.......Nishikori would want to be winning a slam either this year or next or his opportunity may well pass.

Very hard to predict the next slam winner outside of Fed, Nadal, Djoko, Wawrinka, Murray. I would put Nishikori as slight favourite after them.......... of the new generation I would probably say Zverez, then Thiem. I think Goffin has a strong all round game but lacks the big weopan. Kyrgios always goes walkabouts mentally.

I feel for the likes of Ferrer and Berdych. They were so consistent over the years and in any other generation I think they would have nicked a slam or two. The unluckiest was Berdych at Wimbledon in 2010...He took out Federer in the QF, Djokovic in the SF (a very rare win over Novak who was his bogey player) and then ended up having to face Nadal in the final. That was a cruel draw !

I think Thiem at RG is a good bet, possibly next year. Kyrgios seemed to have got his head together earlier this year and was playing as well as anyone at IW/Miami. I think he is more likely than Zverev as he's ahead of him at the moment.

I always lump Tsonga in with Ferrer/Berdych too. Think he would probably have peaked and won a slam in another generation.

Thiem takes the first set off Rafa...

Good from theim. Clearly not affected by last week. Sign of a player on the up 

It's not at all a disaster if Rafa is given a few extra days rest tbf. Sort of hoping he does go out so he rests his wrist

temporary21 wrote:Good from theim. Clearly not affected by last week. Sign of a player on the up 

It's not at all a disaster if Rafa is given a few extra days rest tbf. Sort of hoping he does go out so he rests his wrist

Pretty sure it'll get close and then Rafa will win.

Still, a good step in the right direction for Thiem.

Thiem wins 6-4 6-3, that is a surprise. Fair play to him, he has been playing very well but I didn't expect him to beat Nadal today.

Hopefully that win will give Thiem a bit more belief going forward and particularly if he is to face Nadal in the French. Grand slams are a different challenge altogether but certainly wont do him any harm

THIIIIIEEEMMMMMMM

Massive win for Thiem. He played very well and learnt from his previous matches with Rafa. I actually think the only thing he was lacking was belief in big moments so hopefully this will help.

Should they play at RG you would obviously still make Rafa heavy favourite, but at least it adds some intrigue and possibly some doubt in Rafa's mind.

What say you now Haddie!?

Thiem played well. @LS.. not a big deal in the bigger picture.

Guest82 wrote:Massive win for Thiem.  He played very well and learnt from his previous matches with Rafa.  I actually think the only thing he was lacking was belief in big moments so hopefully this will help.

Should they play at RG you would obviously still make Rafa heavy favourite, but at least it adds some intrigue and possibly some doubt in Rafa's mind.  

Last week you called Thiem a bottler - this week he beats Nadal in straight sets. He is progressing well!

I just hope this isn't a sign that Nadal has overdone things and is now carrying a niggling injury that could see him falter later on.

Rafa should rest now and prepares for the FO. He has played lots of tennis already. Let the remaining players fight for this masters title, hopefully somebody other than Djoko wins it, as non of the others have won any so far.

Thiem is playing well but Rafa not so - serves no good, too many mishittings too; playing from too far back, when he should move forward more, as he won points each time he moved forward.

Rafa not playing his usual thinking game, not going to win those rallies when your younger opponent was hitting so hard all the time and overpowered you from the baseline.