Pro12 final: Munster v Scarlets Dublin 27-05-2017

First topic message reminder :

So tomorrow ends the Pro-12, who will be the champions?

Munster: Simon Zebo; Andrew Conway, Francis Saili, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Tyler Bleyendaal, Conor Murray; CJ Stander, Tommy O'Donnell, Peter O'Mahony (captain), Billy Holland, Donnacha Ryan, John Ryan, Niall Scannell, Dave Kilcoyne

Replacements: Rhys Marshall, Brian Scott, Stephen Archer, Jean Deysel, Jack O'Donoghue, Duncan Williams, Ian Keatley, Jaco Taute

Scarlets: Johnny McNicholl; Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Steffan Evans; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies; John Barclay (captain), James Davies, Aaron Shingler, Tadhg Beirne, Lewis Rawlins, Samson Lee, Ryan Elias, Rob Evans

Replacements: Emyr Phillips, Wyn Jones, Werner Kruger, David Bulbring, Will Boyde, Jonathan Evans, Hadleigh Parkes, DTH Van der Merwe

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)

Assistant Referees: David Wilkinson (IRFU) & Ian Davies (WRU)

TMO: Neil Paterson (SRU)


In my opinion (as a Munster fan) Munster are making a mistake in starting Saili. I think his lack defensive skills will be exposed by the Scarlets. I would have started Taute.

What would you expect from them though given where they are from

RiscaGame wrote:

eirebilly wrote:How good is the Scarlets breakdown work, simply brilliant.

Yet two of their backrow aren't good enough for Team Wales

No standout breakdown specialist. The whole forward pack are good at the breakdown and also good at passing. Shingler however, should have been in that Wales squad from day 1.

RiscaGame wrote:

eirebilly wrote:How good is the Scarlets breakdown work, simply brilliant.

Yet two of their backrow aren't good enough for Team Wales

Unbelievable isn't it. Just goes to show how good Wales could actually be, they have the players...

Evans scarlets scrum half is poor

This is most utter pile of dreck I've watched in a rugby match. For a grand final, it's abysmal. Munster are just terrible.

Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Penalises taute for doing exactly the same as Barclay all game.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Rory hope you're reading all this

Pot Hale wrote:This is most utter pile of dreck I've watched in a rugby match. For a grand final, it's abysmal.   Munster are just terrible.  

I have mixed feelings, hate this as a Munster fan but Munster have been abysmal due to the Scarlets excellence. They have been pressured and out played over the whole match. Been some excellent skill on show from the Scarlets.

Home crowd off game won

Great try

DTH

That is all

Well as a Munster fan what can I say? The scoreboard is actually flattering munster!

Again, simply torn apart. Poor defence but no excuse for being outplayed.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Aww Shame. Some humility might not go a miss...

Can only admire how the he Scarlets have played recently. Proper heads up, quick ball, offloading rugby. Superb to watch. Worthy winners...

No complaints here, none about Owens being the ref and none about Evans starting.

Simply beaten by a better side. To win both a semi final and a final away from home against two home sides speaks volumes for this Scarlets side.

Massive congrats to the Scarlets and their fans, enjoy the win lads you deserved it

Breadvan wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Aww Shame. Some humility might not go a miss...

Can only admire how the he Scarlets have played recently. Proper heads up, quick ball, offloading rugby. Superb to watch. Worthy winners...

Very easy for them with owens as ref. Basically handed it to them after 20 mins. I swear Nigel scored two tries himself

Congratulations to the Scarlets who peaked at the right time. Some beautiful rugby both in attack and defence.

As for the Irish teams...they are certainly getting the "bottler" tag. The big occasions seem to get to them, while the Welsh teams seem to thrive in these environments. Something needs to change. Also, for those who don't think the Lions affects a player's performance, think again. Some of the big names have simply not been good enough since the team announcement.

Yep. Congrats Scarlets. I'm off for a pint

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Aww Shame. Some humility might not go a miss...

Can only admire how the he Scarlets have played recently. Proper heads up, quick ball, offloading rugby. Superb to watch. Worthy winners...

Very easy for them with owens as ref. Basically handed it to them after 20 mins. I swear Nigel scored two tries himself

If Nigel scored two tries for Munster they would still have lost. Just not good enough.

And yes, before you retort with the usual, Ulster are crap etc.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Nigel Owens is a cheat pure and simple. Aided and abetted by that other linesman gifted scarlets 14 points.

You aren't being a sore loser you're being pathetic, Scarlets ripped Munster apart and the best team by a country mile won

Well done Scarlets, worthy winners

I have to be honest, I rarely post, more of an interested observer. But I've been incredibly impressed by the attitude of the overwhelming bulk of Munster fans. Eirebilly. You my friend are a credit to rugby and your country. A big congrats to the scarlets and good luck for next season. To Munster, you weren't at the races today but I think you'll take this hurt and will drive you on next season. But back to my original post. A few Welsh fans could learn a lot from your good humour and honesty. As a Scarlets fan, I'll enjoy tonight looks like it'll be a long one.

From an Osprey fan superbly done Scarlets, a real pleasure to watch a team willing to play in the right way, I bet Webb Ellis was watching this and saying this is the way to play my beautiful game.

Sometimes you just have to accept that your opposition were better. Pished off big time with Munster loosing but also very happy for the Scarlets at the same time.

As other posters said earlier, I hope that this win (and performance) from the Scarlets re-ignites more interest in the Welsh regions supporters. Defo worth the money to go and watch performances like that

Have to agree with C Richards on eirebilly, he comes across as a genuine nice bloke. I imagine this is what most Munster fans are like; honest, passionate and good sportsmen. It wasn't Munster's day today, and Scarlets were outstanding.

With a back line the Scarlets have they were going to click shame it took so long into the season well done both teams for good seasons.

Cheers crichards and mikey, at the end of the day; Rugby is a game we all love and enjoy, win lose or draw

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

Breadvan wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:Might have been better with an impartial ref.

Aww Shame. Some humility might not go a miss...

Can only admire how the he Scarlets have played recently. Proper heads up, quick ball, offloading rugby. Superb to watch. Worthy winners...

Very easy for them with owens as ref. Basically handed it to them after 20 mins. I swear Nigel scored two tries himself

Still doesn't quite cover the points difference. Take your manshaming with the class that others like Eirebilly have.

Some beautiful rugby from the Scarlets in the first half- brilliant to watch. But I was just as impressed with their composure in the second half, not to make any silly mistakes and gift Munster a foothold back into the game.

As a lifelong Scarlets fan, it was a thrill to watch. Wayne Pivac, Steven Jones & the rest of the coaching staff, hats off to you- the team are all playing heads up rugby, with plenty of pace in all areas of the game. It's the execution of basic rugby skills that has them playing so well- let the ball do all of the hard work- and every member of the squad has great ball handling skills. The Scarlets have always had the tools to score fantastic tries, but they have really improved in defence over the course of the season.

I've appreciated the rugby played by the Irish provinces over the years- they have been dominant in the league for years, but Munster just weren't at the races today. They played far too narrow both in attack and defence, and didn't show any imagination in their attack when the Scarlets defensive line wouldn't budge.

I hope this is just the start of things to come from the Scarlets- if this coaching team stay in place, then hopefully they will continue to progress & improve. The forward play & defensive play were clearly identified as key areas to improve after last season, and they have improved dramatically.

Looking forward to next season!

Disappointed Munster didn't do it, but Scarlets have been a class apart at the end of this season. Don't think anyone can begrudge them, playing as they have - just some fantastic rugby, and seem to really play for each other, with a real team ethos.

See, Ulster? See how it's done?

Congrats, Scarlets fans.

I've had 5 pints. But I'm sat in the house with a 1 yr old in bed and a 3 yr old sleeping on my lap. I've got a crate in the fridge. Please tell me there's a few lads planning to go out and paint the town red. That comment applies to Munster fans as well. I'm happy to live out my drinking, pulling and clubbing memories through the eyes of a few lads on this forum who've decided to go out on the lash after that game. Go on boys do it for those of us who can't extricate themselves from the couch for fear of waking a 3 yr old.

eirebilly wrote:No complaints here, none about Owens being the ref and none about Evans starting.

Simply beaten by a better side. To win both a semi final and a final away from home against two home sides speaks volumes for this Scarlets side.

Massive congrats to the Scarlets and their fans, enjoy the win lads you deserved it

Thank you is all I can say to that.
At the moment I'm still letting it sink in that we've actually won the league playing the kind of Rugby that has been played this season. To win against 2 of the best teams in Europe in the Semi and the Final make it even more surprising, let's hope this is the way the PRO12 is going to go.

crichards wrote:I've had 5 pints. But I'm sat in the house with a 1 yr old in bed and a 3 yr old sleeping on my lap. I've got a crate in the fridge. Please tell me there's a few lads planning to go out and paint the town red. That comment applies to Munster fans as well. I'm happy to live out my drinking, pulling and clubbing memories through the eyes of a few lads on this forum who've decided to go out on the lash after that game. Go on boys do it for those of us who can't extricate themselves from the couch for fear of waking a 3 yr old.

Sure buddy, I will raise a pint in your direction tonight

I already have.  

The PRO12 next season should hopefully be a bit spicier with this Welsh victory.  The race for the top 7 should be good now that the 'one each' criteria has been dropped.  

Gates were up overall too with the final getting 44k into Lansdowne.

Next up - better TV deal please.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Congratulations to the Scarlets who peaked at the right time. Some beautiful rugby both in attack and defence.

As for the Irish teams...they are certainly getting the "bottler" tag. The big occasions seem to get to them, while the Welsh teams seem to thrive in these environments. Something needs to change. Also, for those who don't think the Lions affects a player's performance, think again. Some of the big names have simply not been good enough since the team announcement.

I think CJ had his bags packed and one foot on the plane after 30 minutes!

Well done Scarlets - similar to when Glasgow won you won playing attacking heads up rugby and hopefully that is a sign of the future

Scarlets were really good, forwards tries, offloading tries, phase tries and individual brilliance tries. The complete rugby team.

Shout out to the backrow too. That Davis is an amazing player, exactly the kind of 7 I like. Scarlets showing that an all open side backrow can dominate and outplay a physical backrow and win the match.

For those saying Owens was biased, get a grip. He didn't make Munster fall off tackles, or knock the ball on or force offloads. Munster looked really clueless at times.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Congratulations to the Scarlets who peaked at the right time. Some beautiful rugby both in attack and defence.

As for the Irish teams...they are certainly getting the "bottler" tag. The big occasions seem to get to them, while the Welsh teams seem to thrive in these environments. Something needs to change. Also, for those who don't think the Lions affects a player's performance, think again. Some of the big names have simply not been good enough since the team announcement.

I think CJ had his bags packed and one foot on the plane after 30 minutes!

Well done Scarlets - similar to when Glasgow won you won playing attacking heads up rugby and hopefully that is a sign of the future

It was the same with O'Mahony. Their body language was all wrong from the moment they left the tunnel.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scarlets were really good, forwards tries, offloading tries, phase tries and individual brilliance tries. The complete rugby team.

Shout out to the backrow too. That Davis is an amazing player, exactly the kind of 7 I like. Scarlets showing that an all open side backrow can dominate and outplay a physical backrow and win the match.

For those saying Owens was biased, get a grip. He didn't make Munster fall off tackles, or knock the ball on or force offloads. Munster looked really clueless at times.

It was one poster Radge - DOD - who has always been like that and hates everyone/everything non-Munster. Or non-Cork rather.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Scarlets were really good, forwards tries, offloading tries, phase tries and individual brilliance tries. The complete rugby team.

Shout out to the backrow too. That Davis is an amazing player, exactly the kind of 7 I like. Scarlets showing that an all open side backrow can dominate and outplay a physical backrow and win the match.

For those saying Owens was biased, get a grip. He didn't make Munster fall off tackles, or knock the ball on or force offloads. Munster looked really clueless at times.

It was one poster Radge - DOD - who has always been like that and hates everyone/everything non-Munster. Or non-Cork rather.

It was an accusation made via a blunderbuss Rory, I know full well is was an individual, but I didn't want to name names.

Well a bit disappointed with my day out, but congratulations to Scarlett's, by far the better team. More desire more control and more skill, and most of all more brains.
Munster fell off tackles spilled ball kicked poorly and got men isolated far to often.
But again the far better team won.
Can't wait for next season

carpet baboon wrote:Well a bit disappointed with my day out, but congratulations to Scarlett's, by far the better team. More desire more control and more skill, and most of all more brains.
Munster fell off tackles spilled ball kicked poorly and got men isolated far to often.
But again the far better team won.
Can't wait for next season

Don't be too disappointed, this Scarlets side has done the same in recent weeks to Conaught, Ospreys and Leinster. At the moment their high risk, fast pace game is proving almost impossible to defend against but your defensive game (and others) will evolve and it will be a challenge to Pivac and Jones to evolve their attacking game if they want to maintain their charge up the European rugby rankings.

Seagultaf wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Well a bit disappointed with my day out, but congratulations to Scarlett's, by far the better team. More desire more control and more skill, and most of all more brains.
Munster fell off tackles spilled ball kicked poorly and got men isolated far to often.
But again the far better team won.
Can't wait for next season

Don't be too disappointed, this Scarlets side has done the same in recent weeks to Conaught, Ospreys and Leinster. At the moment their high risk, fast pace game is proving almost impossible to defend against but your defensive game (and others) will evolve and it will be a challenge to Pivac and Jones to evolve their attacking game if they want to maintain their charge up the European rugby rankings.

And I do have to say I love that they back themselves every time. Scott Williams impresses every time I see him

And did I hear right your 7 isn't in the Wales squad?

Congratulations to Scarlets - perfectly timed run to scoop the title. Next season they could surprise a few in Europe.
Hard Luck to Munster, an emotional season that all those young guys will remember and benefit massively from.

Fair play Scarlets. Well deserved win playing great rugby. No complaints from me anyway as a Munster supporter.

Still proud of that Munster squad who have come through such a horrendous year. The poor performance in finals really needs to be sorted. I think a lot of it might have to do with so few regular internationals now in the squad. Hopefully, Rassie can sort it out. Hope this isn't going to be a reputation of our last great team who lost so many finals.

Fair play Scarlets, said I hoped you won for the benefit of the league andI hope that there is a postive vibe around PYS next year.
Hope more fans go to games and the Pro 12 is thought of in a better light.

Beating Leinster in the RDS and Munster in the Aviva, must give Scarlets high hopes of going on a good run in Europe, after all that was 2 C-Cup semi finalists (top 4 in Europe) beaten in knock out games away from home.

From a league point of view, we have had the best winners we could over the last 3 years with Glasgow, Connacht and Scarlets, best of all, all of them won by playing an attractive attacking style of rugby.

Hopefully this also leads to a Welsh Region/WRU putting in a bid to host the final with Scarlets and Ospreys not being far off the pace they have a good chance of having a team in it.

carpet baboon wrote:And did I hear right your 7 isn't in the Wales squad?

According the Wales selectors pecking order James Davies is at best 7th choice openside in Wales, with Warburton and Tipuric away with the Lions and 4 other opensides picked for the South Seas Tour this summer! As you can imagine there have been a few raised eyebrows about the selection policy?

On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Seagultaf wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And did I hear right your 7 isn't in the Wales squad?

According the Wales selectors pecking order James Davies is at best 7th choice openside in Wales, with Warburton and Tipuric away with the Lions and 4 other opensides picked for the South Seas Tour this summer! As you can imagine there have been a few raised eyebrows about the selection policy?

My word you must have some truly world class 7s then.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:On the other hand, some Welsh fans on here seem to suggest he is in a similar boat to Steffon Armitage - he looks great because of the other players around him (Barclay, Shingler, Berne etc). I don't know enough about him to know if that is the case or not. Either way, the Scarlets back row is extremely effective as a unit.

Would Shingler not also miss out if that was the case?

Surely a Shingler, Navidi and Davies backrow would be capable of similar results