RG - Day 10

First topic message reminder :

Rafa and Djoko in Q-F action today. Good job it's in Paris and not London where it's blowing a gale at present. Both guys should have enough to blow their opponents away, gale or no gale in Paris. Actually, there is no Gael, as he lost to The Man.
   I'm taking Mladenovic and Caroline W to come thru in the women's. Halep seems to be the favourite for the ladies' crown, but the French girls remaining could sweep home on crowd support. Gather Mug was not too happy with the crowd or her opponent when losing to Mlad. I guess the real reason for the antaganism was the unforgivable shrieking from the Spaniard.

Shrug

People say things in the heat of the moment. It's not up to Rafa to decide the umpire for matches. Not will the atp, an organisation will credibility risk potential corruption by letting people choose their umpire

In those interviews, if you read them, Rafa is willing to accept things as they are, but is frustrated at their inflexibility 

In short the exact same thing as 3 years ago. And we gotten no further

Take Rafa out if this equation and no one  would give a rats. This is the first I had heard of it

Further to this. Umpires are not children. They are arbitrators. They can take someone sounding off and still do their job, and often do.

Someone got mad... big deal... it happens to humans 

Less you have actual evidence of an attempt to influence the game by salting umpires. Or proof that umpires are letting things go from a word in their ear, it's something over nothing

When you think of the things that have been said by players to Umpires in the past( look no further than Kyrigos) now suddenly this has become not just serious but incredibly serious
why? Your comment infers that Rafa is using his influence and status which in turn implies that should Rafa win the FO it was because of putting pressure on an Umpire by using his status. This is what is serious.. and it is something that I would not believe of Nadal no more than most posters I think. I think this particular dead horse has been well and truly flogged

Back to real news 

Caroline is out...  sad face...

Temp, thanks for your fair comment.

And, Haddie, agreed with what you said about the seriousness of BS's inference, that Rafa was using his status as a leading tennis player to give undue influence or pressure upon umpires.

"Carlos gave one of the ladies a warning earlier I think (pretty sure it was him). Anyway, if Rafa thinks the rule is unfair or inconsistent then he should be lobbying for change not requesting that umpires who actually enforce the rule are removed from his matches."

Well, who knows whether Rafa did or did not lobby for the change but without success, after all, and apparently, the enforcement of the time between points rule was done after some influential players complained about others taking too long between points!

And, Rafa has always stressed about the flexibility when applying the rule, since the umpires themselves are inconsistent when applying the rule, differing from umpire to umpire. Carlos Bernadas for example, didn't even give Murray or Delpo any TV warnings when they took so long between points throughout the whole match! Yes it's throughout the whole match!

This has no bearing on Rafa winning the French Open - not sure where that's come from.

However, of course his role as a leading player was a major factor in his comment. Can you imagine the WN500 telling an umpire they'd no longer be umpiring their matches? Just wouldn't happen. Whether or not he calmed down afterwards, it's a clear risk of influencing an umpire's decisions. Can't believe I'm having to explain why that's more serious than Kyrgios mouthing off.

And you are well overstating your point by even merely hinting that he is using his influence as a top player "to get his own way".. Yes he is leading player but I think you are making a serious error of judgement if you think that Nadal would, even if he could, try to influence the umpires decision. He has a RIGHT to complain if he feels he is being dealt with unfairly and I can see nothing in the transcript that he suggests otherwise.
Now I'm bowing out of this because Ive heard enough of these suggestions in the past and as temp has already said had it been any other player in the centre of this controversy it would have been buried by now.

Belovedluckyboy wrote:The Bernadas case was a different issue, when Bernadas didn't allow Rafa to go off court to change his shorts without giving him a TV warning, and Rafa had to change his shorts on court!  Rafa was furious about that and to me that's understandable!  

Fully agree! Imagine wearing that kind of shorts that get in between your buttocks all the time - just got to change those otherwise you'd be pulling them loose during the whole match! So unfair Rafa wasn't given the chance to put on some more comfortable shorts.

This all assumes you take Rafa by his word, and not consider that he was just venting.

Should he be venting? Maybe not but he's human . Even federer has done so

This is practically tin hat conspiracy stuff

Hopefully we'll have some great tennis tomorrow so we can start focusing on what's important

temporary21 wrote:This is practically tin hat conspiracy stuff

Hopefully we'll have some great tennis tomorrow so we can start focusing on what's important

The election?

Sorry Rafa fans, this doesn't look great.

Courtside microphones picked up the nine-times French Open champion saying, “You can keep giving me those warnings but you are not going to be in the chair for me again.” According to: http://www.express.co.uk/sport/tennis/812981/French-Open-2017-Rafael-Nadal-Carlos-Ramos-Roberto-Bautista-Agut-Novak-Djokovic
And it was the Bautista Agut match this week.

Rafa is clearly breaking the rules as usual and then complaining about it since he obviously doesn't want the rule to apply to him.

Venting : "You are a terrible umpire who should never be allowed to umpire again".

Threatening : "Keep giving me warnings but you will never umpire me again".

I'm really not seeing why the difference is proving difficult to grasp.

TBH I'm long done with this conversation. I was done with it 3 years ago

You can't talk to people with an axe to grind. And I'm not willing to entertain an attempt to bash a specific player who is constantly targeted by forums who have an unhealthy obsession with him

I hope in tomorrow's thread we actually get to talk about tennis...

Temp, agreed!

It happened two days ago, gets picked up by the media, then why should it not be discussed on a tennis forum?  The fact that we had a similar discussion before (when he similarly threatened another referee) does not make it less relevant today - perhaps even more so seeing as this establishes a pattern.

They will be having a clock at the youngsters' tour finals this year, let's see how that works.  Putting in a clock is one of the few rule changes that I would be quite happy to see.

Haddie-nuff wrote:sure it would take a blind man not to notice that Novak and Djokovic both have their little "habits"

Both of them?

Hopefully no rain tomorrow, or else they could find it difficult to complete the second set of quarterfinals.

Ha, an interval of three years, and this is called establishes a pattern? You know what SB, you fall into that category that temporary21 describes as "..people with an axe to grind..."

And Djoko certainly has his little habit of bouncing the ball countless times before he serves.

HB, it's not the first time Rafa gets his TV warnings and his first serve taken away from him as a punishment. However, Rafa didn't threaten to 'ban' any umpire from umpiring his matches except Bernardas (who was being unreasonable and causing Rafa to be furious when he had to change his shorts on court). How's that for 'not wanting the rules to be applied to him' ?

Belovedluckyboy wrote:And Djoko certainly has his little habit of bouncing the ball countless times before he serves.

Yes, I know.  

I was just trying to be funny, trying to poke gentle fun at this section of Haddie's post:

Haddie-nuff wrote:Novak and Djokovic both

I would remind those in case the mods forget that there is a sticky for this subject for those Nadal haters (and there are many) who want to have a go at him YET AGAIN AND AGAIN... can the rest of us now get on with discussing the tennis please and maybe whilst we are at it we can have a sticky for our complaints/gripes/and grievances about other players some of the rest of us don't like whilst we are at it eh ?

Vanquished opponent Bautista Agut backed Nadal in his spat with Ramos. “Rafa and I need to play a lot of points. We need to run around a lot. Having the pressure of the umpires is something we don’t really need,” said the 29-year-old.

Must be in the Spanish blood eh ???

temporary21 wrote:TBH I'm long done with this conversation. I was done with it 3 years ago

You can't talk to people with an axe to grind. And I'm not willing to entertain an attempt to bash a specific player who is constantly targeted by forums who have an unhealthy obsession with him

I hope in tomorrow's thread we actually get to talk about tennis...

I have no axe to grind with Rafa - I don't particularly like his tennis but he seems a nice enough guy. Unfortunately, it seems to have been the three Nadal fans posting who have been unable to disassociate their liking from the player from the serious issue of a player telling an umpire mid-match that they will be removed from their matches going forwards. If it had been Federer, Murray or Novak then I have no doubt you would all regard it as the significant tennis related topic it is. My position wouldn't change - it's a serious issue no matter the player concerned.

Anyway, my last word on this topic. Hopefully, we will see Carlos continue to umpire Rafa's matches. Players cannot be permitted to pick and choose their umpires.

The umpire is the final arbiter. They are the bosses. They are guided by the rules - they are given some flexibility to take into account the local factors. It is they that have the final say. They call the time violation, they serve up the penalties - they could default the match if they saw fit. It is churlish to call players "cheaters" in relation to time taken between the points. When I play amateur tennis I always take about two minutes between points as I search for the balls.

Born Slippy wrote:

temporary21 wrote:TBH I'm long done with this conversation. I was done with it 3 years ago

You can't talk to people with an axe to grind. And I'm not willing to entertain an attempt to bash a specific player who is constantly targeted by forums who have an unhealthy obsession with him

I hope in tomorrow's thread we actually get to talk about tennis...

I have no axe to grind with Rafa - I don't particularly like his tennis but he seems a nice enough guy. Unfortunately, it seems to have been the three Nadal fans posting who have been unable to disassociate their liking from the player from the serious issue of a player telling an umpire mid-match that they will be removed from their matches going forwards. If it had been Federer, Murray or Novak then I have no doubt you would all regard it as the significant tennis related topic it is. My position wouldn't change - it's a serious issue no matter the player concerned.

Anyway, my last word on this topic. Hopefully, we will see Carlos continue to umpire Rafa's matches. Players cannot be permitted to pick and choose their umpires.

I agree with this - he's not my favourite player, but I recognise how good he is and can see why a lot of people admire him. But, it doesn't mean he is without fault.

Taking too long between points is a fault, one which he shares with a lot of others. Trying to get umpires banned from his matches is, in my opinion, a much bigger fault which he seems to share with less others.

Go post it on the sticky and vent your grievances on there for goodness sake

It's not that i can't see what you're saying. It's just that I don't care anymore. 

The whole Rafa has done something wrong so he can't be the goat/ I'm right to dislike someone me I've never met. Has been going on a decade

A DECADE. Almost my whole twenties 

I don't have time for it anymore. I only care about the tennis