2017/18 Champions League and Europa League thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Dejan Lovren is hilariously awful

[Calder106]

4th best team in the country is nothing to shrug at.

Neither is beating the best team in Europe last year and narrowly losing to the 2nd best over 2 legs.

To me as a fan I would enjoy that much more than the garbage Arsenal have dished all year. I watch sports to be entertained.

Wenger said something similar back in 2012 and was roundly mocked for it.

[Hero]

Think the difference there is that Arsenal were a team who'd had 2 decades of finishing top 2 most seasons. Spurs though for 20+ years have only ever flirted with the top 4.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

I'd rather be 'garbage' and win something. Then be perceived as the second coming of the greatest thing since sliced bread. Yet bottling it every time

[GSC]

I'd rather actually be good than act as though winning a competition Spurs were too good to actually qualify for justifies being garbage for most of the season.

[Calder106]

Think the difference there is that Arsenal were a team who'd had 2 decades of finishing top 2 most seasons. Spurs though for 20+ years have only ever flirted with the top 4.

Thought it was more like you haven't won a trophy in 6 or 7 years and you are claiming that 4th place and entry into the Champions League is a success haha.

[GSC]

4th best team in the country is nothing to shrug at.

Neither is beating the best team in Europe last year and narrowly losing to the 2nd best over 2 legs.

To me as a fan I would enjoy that much more than the garbage Arsenal have dished all year. I watch sports to be entertained.

Wenger said something similar back in 2012 and was roundly mocked for it.

And I would have said similar.

Arsenal as much as anything were mocked for stagnating and never going anywhere.

If Spurs max out at 4th place for a few more years they'll get similar.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

I'd rather actually be good than act as though winning a competition Spurs were too good to actually qualify for justifies being garbage for most of the season.

Spurs are too good for nothing. Hence why they bottled the league title to Leicester

[Hero]

Really doesn't take much to see Arsenal as a club are on a downwards trajectory whilst Spurs for the most part are on an upwards one. Sure there will be blips for both clubs but overall Spurs are in the ascendancy.

[GSC]

Spurs finished in the top 2 in their CL group, thereby avoiding having to drop into the Europa League. By definition, they played too well to qualify for the competition Arsenals season now relies upon.

[Calder106]

Think the difference there is that Arsenal were a team who'd had 2 decades of finishing top 2 most seasons. Spurs though for 20+ years have only ever flirted with the top 4.

Thought it was more like you haven't won a trophy in 6 or 7 years and you are claiming that 4th place and entry into the Champions League is a success haha.

[Hero]

I got your point the first time, I'm not a Spurs fan though.
Being that in recent years though there's been a clear shift from a top 2 to big four and now a supposed big 6 then qualifying for the CL is a success.
For some it's a bare minimum certainly (I'd say for City/Utd/Chelsea) and failure to do so would probably result in the manager of that club getting fired.
If I was a Spurs fan then I'd be disappointed to only finish 4th this season but I'd take it given that others like Chelsea are probably finishing outside it.

[Calder106]

No problem with what you are saying and that for the past two seasons Spurs have been better than Arsenal and have played better football than them. Wenger should have gone at the end of last season at the very latest to allow Arsenal to start rebuilding.

My point/question still is the same though is it considered to come 4th in the PL and get into the Champions League than to win the FA Cup and not qualify for the CL. Obviously from a financial point of view the CL will bring in much more money. Some supporters may prefer the glory of winning a cup.

Spurs may actually do both this season. Good luck to them if they do. However if they come 4th and don't win the FA cup is that any better than the Arsenal of 2012/3 when Wenger made his statement.

[Duty281]

Really doesn't take much to see Arsenal as a club are on a downwards trajectory whilst Spurs for the most part are on an upwards one. Sure there will be blips for both clubs but overall Spurs are in the ascendancy.

Correct.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'd rather actually be good than act as though winning a competition Spurs were too good to actually qualify for justifies being garbage for most of the season.

Spurs are too good for nothing. Hence why they bottled the league title to Leicester

What the hell did Arsenal do that year if Spurs bottled it?!

Arsenal are an embarrassing club in their world, whereas Spurs are seen as an upwardly mobile one making steady progress and with ambition.

[Hero]

I'd rather actually be good than act as though winning a competition Spurs were too good to actually qualify for justifies being garbage for most of the season.

Spurs are too good for nothing. Hence why they bottled the league title to Leicester

What the hell did Arsenal do that year if Spurs bottled it?!

Arsenal are an embarrassing club in their world, whereas Spurs are seen as an upwardly mobile one making steady progress and with ambition.

And that's said through the gritted teeth of a West Ham fan!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Obviously Spurs are upwardly mobile, but I think it is fair to question if they have "it" to go and win a trophy - often they seem to come up short in the bigger moments, Pochettino's record away to the other "big six" clubs demonstrates that imo.

Arsenal fans taking the mick is just mega lolz - genuinely think they may spiral further down post Wenger, their problems run much deeper than just the manager *cough* Stan Kroenke *cough*

[Ent]

Anyone think they've seen a worse game this season?

[Ent]

United deserved to concede there.

Half arsed performance, hope they go out.

[GSC]

Justice fully done over 2 legs, United have been crap

[Ent]

Shocking performance from united.

Huge problems in the squad and club.

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for everyone involved.

Didn't even try over the 2 legs.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Jose is behind the times and not a very good manager.

[Ent]

I blame him for his input into the recruitment (it's been terrible for years now though.

Don't think you can blame him entirely for the on pitch performances. Ultimately he expects effort, desire, concentration regardless of the system/tactics and that is missing.

Even on Saturday during a good win united were brutal defending set pieces - caught out again tonight. Is that like a mourinho team?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

He isn’t making enough players better. Young and Valencia? Lingard? And all the talk about united having a style - he’s not near it and doesn’t appear to be trying to be.

[GSC]

The problem with Jose, and it always has been, is you can kinda put with the negative tactics, and him generally being a prick, when hes winning. When hes not winning, and its everyone elses fault, its hard to find defenders for him. And he wins less nowadays than he used to.

He has the look of a guy who probably has one more payday with PSG before he wanders off.

[Ent]

I'd say lukaku has improved this season, mctominay has come in and done alright. Lindgard has certainly improved (although still not a great player).

The players are the ones who have to go out and perform and many of them have been poor- in spite of this they haven't been organised, disciplined and have lacked effort, now this is something mourinho always has in his sides - the players just aren't doing it.

[Ent]

The problem with Jose, and it always has been, is you can kinda put with the negative tactics, and him generally being a prick, when hes winning. When hes not winning, and its everyone elses fault, its hard to find defenders for him. And he wins less nowadays than he used to.

He has the look of a guy who probably has one more payday with PSG before he wanders off.

He was actually very docile in his post match interview, defended the players and just wrote it off as one of those days. Makes me think he doesn't care.

I know he is under pressure to behave himself but when he was at his best he was always a bit spoken after defeats.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

As much as I can feel it too, any time it’s “the players need to do more” for more than one or two games, it’s definitely the manager’s fault.

I still don’t think he’ll be remembered fondly there.

[Ent]

He's better than lvg and moyes were anyway.

I just wonder if he has lost that ability to pull a squad together and get them to play with the aggression and application he wants. It was remarked how much like a big brother he was to the players at Chelsea and inter, maybe he is too old to do that now and needs to find another way.

Needs to get his eye back in when judging players as his signings for united have been terrible.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Was Bailly his? Cos Bailly is looking around him in defence and seeing no one up to his level

[Ent]

I think he has signed:

Zlatan
Mkhitaryan
Bailly
Pogba
Lukaku
Sanchez
Lindelhof
Matic

Bailly has potential but is rash at times and loses anyone with good movement. For all the last ditch tackles and blocks in the last 2 games he has scored a comedy own goal and lost ben yedder tonight.

Needs an injury free run to develop imo.

[No name Bertie]

Does anyone watch ESPN FC TV Show which comment on and analyse post-match.  They are explaining why the Manchester United Board have a decision to make on Mourinho.  Do they trust him to spend another £100 million on another player?  Or should they bring in a more attacking minded Manager akin to the managers of the past?  They are saying that Moyes, Louis Van Gaal and Mourinho are all boring defensive (counter-attacking) minded managers lacking the creative, attacking spark of earlier Man Utd managers.

In fact checking out two other post-match tv shows, there is a general consensus of what the problem is and Mourinho's limitations.  Gerrard is a little more generous towards Mourinho compared to the others - saying this is always how Mourinho sets his team up to play - but this time they were flat (lacked energy as a team).  Others were saying that Rashford should not have been switched to the right to accommodate Sanchez, who hasn't yet been played in a way to get the most from him.   Many questioned bringing in Fellaini when he has been out injured for the past four months, and when he had Pogba and McTominay ...

Fans post-match saying the same things. "I love Mourinho but ..." "De Gea papering over the cracks ..." "Wrong team selection ... why change a winning team ..."

[Ent]

Valid criticisms post match.

Who else do united bring in?

I think his style of play is being overly criticised, when he has his best sides they attack and score plenty of goals- he just keeps it tight and tries to control games against good opponents- usually away from home.

You see how vulnerable united are when they open up and go for it.

Realistically he needs 2 starting fullbacks, probably another centre half. A midfielder who can actually get the ball from the defense to the forwards and a right sided attacker.

[GSC]

At some point Ed Woodwards role has to be reviewed. He's been the constant post SAF.

But Jose's brought in 2 90m players. Zlatan and Sanchez on massive contracts. Signed 2 defenders and a holding midfielder. Inherited two exciting young attacking talents.

The buck stops with him. United don't look like a safety first team, they just look scared too often.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

With Mourinho's bizarre interview post match I wouldn't be surprised to see him actively egg on the United board to sack him. He's obsessed with having endless money to spend and the only club willing to do that is PSG. PSG will most likely look for a new manager in the summer and Mourinho would probably fit the bill

[GSC]

He signed a new deal so I doubt he's off this year.

As to who would replace him, Pochettino is the hot name, but it seems like a poor fit given the current mentality at United. Ancelottis maybe

[compelling and rich]

wouldnt be fussed if mourinho went even if he is the best manager we could currently have. i have been bore to tears watching his team, we didn't attack seville over two legs until we went behind. thats all on the manager that. ive been lucky to have grow up watching united at their best and not much else until recently. would much prefer to see an attacking manager in.

matic and felliani playing together at home, rashford playing on the right wing after playing well on the left recently were all very strange choices. he cant get the best out of attacking players like pogba and sanchez. generally just hoofing it up all game were all mourinhos choices.

we havnet bought a player who has improved us since fergie has left, our best players this season has been lingard, de gea, valenica amd young. all players who were still at the club under fergie

[Ent]

Woodward has made big deals happen repeatedly.

Di Maria, zlatan, pogba, lukaku, mata, matic, falcao etc

Unless he's picking the players to buy I'm not sure much criticism can be levelled at him.

[Fernando]

Not sure Jose knows his best team anymore.

If put Pogba in then need 2DM's to cover his defensive liability which pushes the inform lingard out the side
Alexis forcing Martial/Rashford to their uncomfortable wing

Square pegs & round holes come to mind at United for the moment

[GSC]

He's made big deals happen by lobbing massive amounts of money at them. Not sure if that's supposed to be to his credit, but clearly there's a flaw in recruitment somewhere.

[Hero]

A number of times Woodward has managed to get in a player that previously looked nailed on to join a rival such as Pogba, Lukaku and Sanchez so I think he's getting flak that's unjustified, he's doing his part of the job, it's just the players themselves and the manager on how they're then played that's at fault.

[Marky]

Not sure Jose knows his best team anymore.

If put Pogba in then need 2DM's to cover his defensive liability which pushes the inform lingard out the side
Alexis forcing Martial/Rashford to their uncomfortable wing

Square pegs & round holes come to mind at United for the moment

Is there even a formation that fits in all of their big names?

[Marky]

Only thing I can think of is;

De Gea
Valencia - Smalling - Bailly - Young
Matic
Mata - Pogba
Martial - Lukaku - Sanchez

At least they wouldn't be boring to watch

[compelling and rich]

team would still be massively unbalanced with only matic defending in midfield (Like the spurs game where we got tonked) and martial playing out of position add to that smalling not being good enough, young while overacheiveing there isnt a good good lb for a side wanting to win the title.

[Guest]

Woodward has made big deals happen repeatedly.

Di Maria, zlatan, pogba, lukaku, mata, matic, falcao etc

Unless he's picking the players to buy I'm not sure much criticism can be levelled at him.

I know. Utd lose a game they should've won on paper so lets blame the Chief Exec.

[compelling and rich]

dont think many fans are blaming woodward. pretty much the whole of the blame ive heard was aimed at mourinho and his tactics

recruitment has been poor, whether thats the scouting or managers bad choices but on the whole after that poor first season woodward has got his man. unfortunately in some cases

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Chelsea are going out, but they’ve given it a go and are much more entertaining than Jose’s lot

[compelling and rich]

scoreline flattered barca i thought, chelsea created plenty of chances, just barca took theirs (or courtois let them through his legs)

[GSC]

Chelsea lost the tie in the first leg, should've won it comfortably there.

[daraghj82]

Chelsea unlucky abit not to score in 1st half , they created lots of chances but gave barca bad goals in each leg

[Guest]

Barcelona v Roma
Bayern Munich v Sevilla
Juventus v Real Madrid
Liverpool v Manchester City

[Sponsored content]