European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

First topic message reminder :

Right, seeing as it seems nobody else has put up any match threads yet, perhaps we can use this as a general thread for the build up to this year's European club competition.

The first round of Champions Cup matches looks like this:

13/10/2017 19:45 P1
Ulster Rugby  v   Wasps
Kingspan Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 13:00 P3
Leinster Rugby  v   Montpellier
RDS Arena
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 16:15 P4
Racing 92  v   Leicester Tigers
Stade Yves-Du-Manoir
beIN Sports / BT Sport More

14/10/2017 17:30 P1
Harlequins  v   La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 17:30 P5
Bath Rugby  v   Benetton Rugby
The Recreation Ground
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 19:45 P3
Exeter Chiefs  v   Glasgow Warriors
Sandy Park
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 14:00 P4
Castres Olympique  v   Munster Rugby
Stade Pierre Fabre
beIN Sports / Sky Sports More

15/10/2017 16:15 P5
RC Toulon  v   Scarlets
Stade Félix Mayol
FR2 / Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Northampton Saints  v   Saracens
Franklin's Gardens
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Ospreys  v   ASM Clermont Auvergne
Liberty Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports

We all have our own vested interests but for me the picks of the round are:

- Chiefs v Glasgow: 2nd in the Jeff vs 1st in Pro 12 conference A - both teams playing very well - should be a stormer.

- Toulon v Scarlets: top of Pro 12 conference B, Scarlets are flying and are coming up against an imperfect side that has already lost 3 times this season. Great chance for an away win.

- Saints v Sarries: 1st v 3rd, an English classic, should be absolutely brutal.

Interesting matchup

Leinster Rugby V Montpellier
Pos Player Player Pos
Joey Carbery 15 Jesse Mogg >>Montpellier
Adam Byrne 14 Benjamin Fall >> Even
Robbie Henshaw 13 Joseph Tomane >>Even
Isa Nacewa (capt) 12 Frans Steyn >> Montpellier (as centres)
Barry Daly 11 Nemani Nadolo >> Montpellier (welcome to euro rugby Barry!)
Ross Byrne 10 Thomas Darmon >> No Sexton! Montpellier
Luke McGrath 9 Ruan Pienaar >> Montpellier
Jack McGrath 1 Mikheil Nariashvili >> Leinster
James Tracy 2 Bismarck Du Plessis >> Montpellier
Tadhg Furlong 3 Antoine Guillamon >> Leinster
Devin Toner 4 Jacques Du Plessis >> Even maybe
Scott Fardy 5 Nicholaas Van Rensburg >> Montpellier
Rhys Ruddock 6 Kelian Galletier >> Even
Josh van der Flier 7 Yacouba Camara >> Even
Jack Conan 8 Louis Picamoles (capt) >> Montpellier

All of a sudden I'm worried.

thebandwagonsociety wrote: Barry Daly 11 Nemani Nadolo  >> Montpellier (welcome to euro rugby Barry!)

I wouldn't discount Daly, he's got some pace and Nadolo isn't exactly known for his defence so could even out if Nadolo doesn't break him in half

LondonTiger wrote:Racing:

15. Juan Imhoff; 14. Teddy Thomas, 13. Virimi Vakatawa, 12. Henry Chavancy, 11. Joe Rokocoko; 10. Remi Tales, 9. Teddy Iribaren; 1. Viliamu Afatia, 2. Dimitri Szarzewski, 3. Census Johnston, 4. Bernard Le Roux, 5. Leone Nakarawa, 6. Wenceslas Lauret, 7. Baptiste Chouzenoux, 8. Yannick Nyanga

16. Camille Chat, 17. Eddy Ben Arous, 18. Cedate Gomes Sa, 19. Manuel Carizza, 20. Edwin Maka, 21. Maxime Machenaud, 22. Patrick LAMBIE, 23. Anthony Tuitavke


Leicester:

15. Telusa Veainu; 14. Nick Malouf, 13. Matt Smith, 12. Matt To'omua, 11. Jonny May; 10. George Ford, 9. Ben Youngs; 1. Ellis Genge, 2. Tom Youngs, 3. Dan Cole, 4. Dom Barrow, 5. Graham Kitchener, 6. Mike Williams, 7. Luke Hamilton, 8. Sione Kalafamoni

16. George McGuigan, 17. Greg Bateman, 18. Pat Cilliers, 19. Dan Tuohy, 20. Brendon O'Connor, 21. Benjamin White, 22. Joe Ford, 23. Matthew Tait

great to see Veainu, Smith, Kitch and O'Connor back

Penalty bought by the crowd there - Wasps weren't offside when the ball was lifted - not their fault if the SH took an age to pass it ...

Wasps injury woes continue ...

Heaf2 wrote:Wasps injury woes continue ...

It's not looking great for them. Two changes inside 25 minutes, its a physical game and those sibs wpuld havr been more crucial later on. Ulster are slowly settling into the game as well. Wasps need to lol after the ball better .

Ulster 6 has just come in from the Wasps side of that maul.

Why they went for the lineout I don't know. Scrum is massively in their favour. Make the ref start looking at yellow card. Ulster love defending a rolling maul.

Ref is poor - pings Wasps when not offside but doesn't ping Ulster when they are ...

Heaf2 wrote:Ref is poor - pings Wasps when not offside but doesn't ping Ulster when they are ...

He doesn't appear to have read the new law interpretations. Defender is over the tackled player so it's a ruck. Ulster man goes over the top and grabs the ball, penalty in the wrong direction.

Ulster ball in hand are terrible. Kicking is poor and they really aren't getting the ball to their backs anywhere near enough.

I can see why the Pro12 supporters complain about the officiating standards if this guy is representative ...

The ARs are useless too ...

Very scrappy game, try is going to be king. I can see Wasps scoring if the game opens up later on. Wasps defence has been much improved from their league form too.

Dismal, dismal first half.

I thought I’d been transported back to the seventies - if this is European Rugby Cup fare, it’s no wonder sponsors are staying well away.

Not great was it - not helped by some poor officiating either ...

How much are Wasps paying Le Roux? He is bloody rubbish. He seems like he is going o drop he ball every time Ulster put it into he air.

Ulster look after the ball and suddenly they are all over Wasps.

McClosky lucky not to have the penalty reversed for the cheap shot on le Roux.

Cumbrian wrote:How much are Wasps paying Le Roux?  He is bloody rubbish.  He seems like he is going o drop he ball every time Ulster put it into he air.

Agreed. Poor in the air and now nowhere near the fullback in at the corner. He got hands on him but there was no commitment in that tackle. Not brave enough to dive on the ankles and know you'll finish in the hoardings.

Ulster look do much better now they've stopped kicking the leather off the ball. Two in two. This could get ugly quickly if Wasps don't regroup sharpish.

How in the world is that Ulster ball??? The Ulster lad clearly lost it in contact!

Didn't see where that went forwards either - looked lateral to me ..

Touch judge doesn't seem to like wasps. Lots of calls going against them. That lineout was never straight

Complete joke. Johnson not offside. The officials seem to see Wasps' offside everywhere bu completely ignore Ulster when they are offside.

Ref in rinsing Wasps here

Officiating is completely one-sided and wrong 90% of the time - really dreadful

Bit of a pull down from the ulster player there. Should of been a penalty

cowpat decision

I'm fairly certain Ulster have been pinged for three high tackles and not had someone sinbinned. That tackle was no worse than the one on Daly. Kind of decisions you get with a baying crowd.

What a pile of crap

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'm fairly certain Ulster have been pinged for three high tackles and not had someone sinbinned. That tackle was no worse than the one on Daly. Kind of decisions you get with a baying crowd.

And weak officials

Even in the last move the officials missed the Ulster 12 pulling back WLR off the ball ...

And I don't think it was knocked-on either but knocked-back by the Ulster 12 too.

Heaf2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I'm fairly certain Ulster have been pinged for three high tackles and not had someone sinbinned. That tackle was no worse than the one on Daly. Kind of decisions you get with a baying crowd.

And weak officials

Wasps penalty count didn’t lead to a yellow card either.

A bit better from Ulster in second half but can’t see either of these teams in the business end if they keep that up.

Stockdale could be an interesting find though for future tests. Big lad.

Ref whingeing. How refreshing.

Ulster done for one high tackle. Wasps three.

Hopefully we can kick on with Rory Best, Jared Payne, Chris Henry to come back, and hopefully a medical joker for Coetzee.

Scrappy game, but I'm hoping we might build.

My thoughts on the match....

No clear winner in the Henderson Launchbury head to head. Both had massive games. Henderson put in a great performance including destroying two Wasps rolling mauls on the Ulster 5M line. Launchbury was everywhere for Wasps.

In the second half a couple of Ulster's big players in the backs took the game by the scruff of the neck. Namely, McCloskey and Piutau. Man of the match Jacob Stockdale will be appearing for Ireland soon, O'Driscoll gave him man of the match and said he is right up there in the Ireland wing pecking order.

I thought Haskell was largely anonymous against a fairly weak Ulster backrow that was missing Coetzee and Henry. I also thought Willie le Roux had a particularly poor game. Got pulled out of the defensive line by Piutau for Stockdale's try and generally made a lot of mistakes. I'm reminded of his Leguizamon moment against Leinster in last years CC as well. I don't think he is a player that copes well with poor conditions. Hard ground and fair weather he is a world beater. In Belfast tonight, after raining all day, there was a heavy muggy dew making everything difficult and he didn't cope with it.

Ulster's front row have major issues and I think it will take more than Rory Best to fix it. McCall is very young and didn't fair well at loosehead this evening. Beside him at hooker you have Herring who is no Rory Best come scrum time and Herbst at tighthead can't carry two poor scrummagers.

On a final note, Whitehouse is one of the better refs in the Pro14, didn't have a great game tonight. The mitigation of that is that it was a very difficult game to officiate.

Don Alfonso wrote:Ulster done for one high tackle. Wasps three.

Hopefully we can kick on with Rory Best, Jared Payne, Chris Henry to come back, and hopefully a medical joker for Coetzee.

Scrappy game, but I'm hoping we might build.

It would be great to see for Ulster. The Coetzee injury is a blow but it’s time to forget about him and someone else to step up. Cooney’s place kicking was a bit worrying - not on song at all.

What’s the plan for when Le’lifano goes? Who steps in?

With the absolute Poopie state that Wasps are in now, and their horrendous injury situation, losing by 10pts at Ravenhill really isn't a bad result at all.


With 2 fairly even teams in the European Cup pool stages 5-0 is a home victory, 4-1 a slight win for the away team and 4-0 something like a draw.

Pot Hale wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Ulster done for one high tackle. Wasps three.

Hopefully we can kick on with Rory Best, Jared Payne, Chris Henry to come back, and hopefully a medical joker for Coetzee.

Scrappy game, but I'm hoping we might build.

It would be great to see for Ulster.  The Coetzee injury is a blow but it’s time to forget about him and someone else to step up.  Cooney’s place kicking was a bit worrying - not on song at all.

What’s the plan for when Le’lifano goes?  Who steps in?

That, my friend, is when it all goes belly-up.

Part of the reason Ulster are strong at home is the Kingspan faithful.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:With the absolute Poopie state that Wasps are in now, and their horrendous injury situation, losing by 10pts at Ravenhill really isn't a bad result at all.


With 2 fairly even teams in the European Cup pool stages 5-0 is a home victory, 4-1 a slight win for the away team and 4-0 something like a draw.

Ulster have more 1stXV injuries than Wasps and we've had a very mediocre start to the season so I don't see how Wasps injury situation is so horrendous. Losing by ten points is a bad result, 0 points is a bad weekend result for any side.

P.S. folks, perhaps Wasps players should learn what offside is, don't listen to Dayglo where that's concerned. Also the ref didn't score 2 very quick tries which was the difference today, conceed tries, lose games, that simple.

Yes Ulster don't t have the riches of their Franglo opponents (neither do the rest of the pro14). It's still gratifying that they can fight for a result against the odds and expose their AP opponents and the overhype that they have to live with.

Piutau gaining the easy star headlines but full credit to Stockdale, Henderson, Cooney, Leali’ifano and MCcloskey.

Pete330v2 wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:With the absolute Poopie state that Wasps are in now, and their horrendous injury situation, losing by 10pts at Ravenhill really isn't a bad result at all.


With 2 fairly even teams in the European Cup pool stages 5-0 is a home victory, 4-1 a slight win for the away team and 4-0 something like a draw.

Ulster have more 1stXV injuries than Wasps and we've had a very mediocre start to the season so I don't see how Wasps injury situation is so horrendous. Losing by ten points is a bad result, 0 points is a bad weekend result for any side.

P.S. folks, perhaps Wasps players should learn what offside is, don't listen to Dayglo where that's concerned. Also the ref didn't score 2 very quick tries which was the difference today, conceed tries, lose games, that simple.

Wasps have something like 22 players out, that's out of a squad of around 39. That's more than 50%.

May not be as many 1st team players but it does mean less squad rotation and 1st team 0layers being flogged

So Wasps have been let down by their recruitment?

nathan wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:With the absolute Poopie state that Wasps are in now, and their horrendous injury situation, losing by 10pts at Ravenhill really isn't a bad result at all.


With 2 fairly even teams in the European Cup pool stages 5-0 is a home victory, 4-1 a slight win for the away team and 4-0 something like a draw.

Ulster have more 1stXV injuries than Wasps and we've had a very mediocre start to the season so I don't see how Wasps injury situation is so horrendous. Losing by ten points is a bad result, 0 points is a bad weekend result for any side.

P.S. folks, perhaps Wasps players should learn what offside is, don't listen to Dayglo where that's concerned. Also the ref didn't score 2 very quick tries which was the difference today, conceed tries, lose games, that simple.

Wasps have something like 22 players out, that's out of a squad of around 39. That's more than 50%.

May not be as many 1st team players but it does mean less squad rotation and 1st team 0layers being flogged

It was 15 players a few weeks ago and half those are now back and some how its 22 now?

Poor recruitment as much as injuries for Wasps

Lost some key players from last season and never replaced fully. Le Reux was abysmal last night, him and Wade together were shown up by the Ulster back three especially CP.

Ulster work at the rucks was far better and quicker, giving their 10 good ball, Wasps got poor ball all night.

Wasps could easily have won that game, but two errors from Le Roux, gave Ulster 2 tries in two mins and that's game over. (Not taking away from Charles' great footwork and Ulsters offloading game which combined perfectly for the second).

yappysnap wrote:Poor recruitment as much as injuries for Wasps

Lost some key players from last season and never replaced fully. Le Reux was abysmal last night, him and Wade together were shown up by the Ulster back three especially CP.

Ulster work at the rucks was far better and quicker, giving their 10 good ball, Wasps got poor ball all night.

Wasps could easily have won that game, but two errors from Le Roux, gave Ulster 2 tries in two mins and that's game over. (Not taking away from Charles' great footwork and Ulsters offloading game which combined perfectly for the second).

This. The loss of Thomas Young at half time tipped the balance at the breakdown heavily in Ulster's favour. Having said that if Ulster had played more rugby in the first half instead of kicking I think there was opportunities to really damage the injury ravaged Wasps midfield. A fullback at 10 and Gopperth who wasn't fully fit at 12 alongside Daly who has shown some dodgy defending in the 13 channel in the last couple of weeks. Ulster didn't really exploit that until the second half. If you've got hard running centres and a flair filled back three then you need to get them the ball.

nathan wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:With the absolute Poopie state that Wasps are in now, and their horrendous injury situation, losing by 10pts at Ravenhill really isn't a bad result at all.


With 2 fairly even teams in the European Cup pool stages 5-0 is a home victory, 4-1 a slight win for the away team and 4-0 something like a draw.

Ulster have more 1stXV injuries than Wasps and we've had a very mediocre start to the season so I don't see how Wasps injury situation is so horrendous. Losing by ten points is a bad result, 0 points is a bad weekend result for any side.

P.S. folks, perhaps Wasps players should learn what offside is, don't listen to Dayglo where that's concerned. Also the ref didn't score 2 very quick tries which was the difference today, conceed tries, lose games, that simple.

Wasps have something like 22 players out, that's out of a squad of around 39. That's more than 50%.

May not be as many 1st team players but it does mean less squad rotation and 1st team 0layers being flogged

11 players on that pitch did not start last week - 8 of them for Wasps.
Ulster were playing a full strength team last week, Wasps rested player (according to some it is the other way round)
Of the three changes for Ulster two were forced by injuries.
Those guys would have played if fit, the other was simply a matter of a player being dropped.
Ulster were missing more starters than Wasps
22 out of 39 really - don't believe you

Some of the complaints about the ref on here are a complete joke

Just popped over to the Wasps supporters site.

Interesting reading - firstly no complaints about the referee other than he relied on his assistances too much.
Certainly none of bias.

Well beaten and the right result
attack, everyone drifting or running an outside line, no changes in attack, no cut backs, few straight lines with off loads to supporting players
Some of our big name players need to do some bloody close reflection.
Also confirming what I have said without Cips and Beale the backs are nothing special.

Sound like true fans reflecting on why they lost rather than trotting out the old nonsense of it was the refs fault