OC at SA

Managed to secure a tee time for the Old Course for Easter Monday..

Can you use an electric trolley on the OC ??

I thought it was a thread for a US college sports match, Orange County at San Antonio for example.

Good work Setup, no idea about lekky trollies but I imagine so. Have you played it before? Interested to hear about it (the lap, not the electric trolley ).

My gut feeling would be:
If they want to adhere to traditions, then no. But since they also cater to American tourists, then maybe yes.

Does THIS help?
I suspect Super will be the person with the definitive answer.

Get super to caddie for you.

You would be up for that wouldn't you super?

First time, hopefully.

About 35 years ago I got a tee time through the daily ballot. Rose early the next day. Got the club's into the car. Reversed out of the driveway. Put car in first. Big loud bang. And that was as far as we got...mechanical issue with car, not me hitting something...
Here's hoping I get further this time..

SetupDeterminesTheMotion wrote:Managed to secure a tee time for the Old Course for Easter Monday..

Can you use an electric trolley on the OC ??

Setup, depends on two things.
First of all where Easter Monday lands in the calendar. This is because from Nov 1 throughout the winter and up until 31st March (sometimes longer for TOC) all St.Andrews courses play off fairway mats and Trolleys are not allowed on TOC during this time.

If however there are no fairway mats in play, then trolleys are permitted after 12.00PM.

Easter Monday is April 2nd.
So trolleys allowed then Super ??

I think it "should" be alright Setup, but I'd give them a bell to ask just in case. Either way, trolleys will only be allowed if your time is post 12 noon.

My memory might be a bit suspect in that I can't remember if it is end of Feb or end of March that the mats usually come off, only time Old gets an extended period is when the Open is being held there as far as I can remember.

Just had a check.

https://www.standrews.com/Play/Policies

Looks like you'll be fine and one of the first to play 2018 without a mat.

Would it ever be worth a visitors fee to play off a mat?

I love winter (within reason) golf on a links but playing from a matt would really ruin the experience. I have only ever played the TOC during the full price season.

Playing off a mat is actually better than you think Mac, it's a pain around the green, and I don't really bother (I often chip off the green too)

You get some great contact off the mat and some great spin too. When you think about it, you aren't going to be hitting a whole heap of shots off it.  If you hit the 16 fairways, then you have 16 fairway shots, plus an extra two on the par 5's (although you can hit both of them in 2), bearing in mind you might have a few chips from the sides of the green for missed greens (yes, even on TOC), you might potentially play 22-24 shots from a mat. Taking rough/semi into account, you can probably take that back to about 18 shots a round.

Mats only on fairways?

I'd use the mat about twice a round!

It can be quite difficult to miss some of the fairways on the OC. You are more likely to be in sand than rough on a few holes.

This is a really odd thread. Is using an electric trolley the most important consideration when playing TOC?

Anyway, hope you enjoy it.

The mats thing is strange too, is it a Scottish thing or just St Andrews? How big is the mat? Is it like a driving range thing which I imagine would be very awkward to carry around? Can you just move your ball to the semi rough to hit off grass?

... If it was fairways only then it wouldn't bother me as I don't hit any.

George1507 wrote:It can be quite difficult to miss some of the fairways on the OC. You are more likely to be in sand than rough on a few holes.

Nah, very rarely in a bunker on TOC. They're mostly in the wrong place now.

Was asking for my partners. They don’t like carrying.

As Super says plenty of spin using a mat.

A mat is usually just over a foot long, about 4” wide.

Part of the 'experience' of playin TOC is getting a caddie.

I wouldn't bother Smithers, to a man they are almost complete and utter p*icks whose information and chat is complete rubbish. Better playing with a local.

Agree with super on this. They are an odd type of person. If they stick to just being a bag carrier it is fine but when they pretend to offer advice it massively grates.

They usually offer advice which isn't fit for the person trying to execute it.

A solo American joined us on the first once and had taken a caddy. After the round he told me that the caddy's insistence on him taking advice had ruined the experience for him.

There's often a bit of argy bargy with them on TOC because they behave like they own the place.

If I was ever taking a caddy, I'd make sure to put a few bricks in my bag.

Played TOC in August, and used caddies. They were brilliant. Advice quickly geared to the players, good fun and very pleasant with all of us. 2 lads who joined us, one from Canada one from Argentina reckoned it made the day for them. Advice was never forced, and illustrated issues rather than demanding particular action. Really enjoyed it, though it’s not something I would normally seek out.

I'd think a caddie would be more useful on a course which was actually difficult such as Carnoustie or Muirfield.

St.Andrews is so straight forward that there is not much a caddy can tell you that you can't really see for yourself.

Or somewhere you don’t know well? Even if it’s been on tv a million times.
Played my home course recently with a pro caddy - friend of a friend - fabulous experience, even though I knew the course much better than he did!

Everything is easy...as long as you know what you're doing. I suspect most people who play TOC might not be local experts playing off a Cat 1 handicap.

Lots of blind or semi-blind tee shots. In the absence of a playing partner who knows the course what else are you supposed to do?

One of the joys of playing a new course is figuring out how to play it. I am sure caddies are well meaning but the advice often seems a touch lazy and regurgitated and not specific to the player they are tending to.

But even if the advice was great I would much rather pit myself against the course and conditions solo and try to figure out what to do.

Was thinking of hiring a caddie. Maybe I'll have a rethink now.

Off to play Trump International on Sunday.
SGU offering it at £95 for a round, some £60 Off.

Setup the place is going down the pan.

SmithersJones wrote:Lots of blind or semi-blind tee shots. In the absence of a playing partner who knows the course what else are you supposed to do?

The summation of the caddies knowledge is "there's no trouble on the left". Anything else is down to your ability to read a green. No point in a caddy reading the green for you if he isn't aware of how you putt.

Got to agree with Mac for once, that part of the joy is figuring stuff out for yourself. As for blind shots, there's a couple, but not enough to merit a £60 fee.

Obviously it's up to the person, but I think you'd get more information from a strokesaver as the caddies are trying hard to massage ego's for a tip.

super_realist wrote:I wouldn't bother Smithers, to a man they are almost complete and utter p*icks whose information and chat is complete rubbish. Better playing with a local.

Couldn't disagree with you more Super. I played the Old Course in May this year and on the 1st tee the caddie came up and introduced himself as Neil Easton. Transpires that he has worked as a professional caddie for over 30 years and has been on the bag for amongst others, Mark McNulty, Tony Johnstone and Chris Doak who he caddied for in the 2013 US Open.

We are all very aware that your view of the Old Course is that it is very straightforward, but there are a lot of hidden bunkers to catch out those of us that are playing it for the first time. Neil Easton got me round level par on the front 9 by giving me lines off the tees that I would never have taken otherwise. I had 3 bogeys on the back during a torrential thunderstorm and my only bad hole was the road hole where I had a double. Nevertheless I was delighted to shoot 77 for my first time there. The recommended tip to the caddie is £50-80 I gave Neil £100 as he made the round so much more enjoyable for me.

During the round he mentioned that he was caddying for Mark McNulty in the Senior Open at Porthcawl in July. I said my wife and I were planning to have a week there and he said give me a message when you get there and I'll get you some tickets. When we got there on the Tuesday I messaged him and on the Wednesday when we went for practice day he had left me an envelope on the gate with two season tickets for the week and a parking ticket in the players car park. Over 200 quids worth of tickets. I guess they are not all as you described them then Super...

Sounds like a good guy Blue. Rare as rocking horse sh1t though and you were very lucky to get him.

Not that rare! I’ve highlighted 4 examples, and can refute all the negatives that have been raised. In our case the caddies were very focused on individual needs/abilities of the golfers, and we all found them helpful. They enhanced the experience.
Question Super - when did you last use a caddy at OC?

Why would I use a caddie at TOC?  Caddies are for tourists. I have had the displeasure of having played with many of them (both whilst  they are working, and when they play), and I've had many run ins with them elsewhere on the course for not keeping their group in order, holding up play or generally being utter arses (rattling bags, getting in the way, them telling me to hurry up when I'm waiting for them to take a bloody picture on the Swilcan Bridge.)

Of course there are going to be exceptions, but the ones I've experienced, which will be more than you, were negative experiences.

A caddie is of course useful at times, but I'm simply saying that in comparison to other courses on the Open rota, you won't find any more straight forward courses where a lot of information is either obvious, superfluous or completely useless.

I've played TOC 100's of times, and we often take a solo tourist along with us if they're waiting, and I've seen how annoying the caddies can be and many a player has confirmed it.

Mind you, perhaps it's a Links Trust thing as many of the "Course Marshalls" (who appear to do nothing whatsoever) are arses too.

Oh dear!

Super

The course marshals are a pain in the arse. I was standing waiting for about 5 minutes in the middle of the 15th fairway as the group head messed about on the green and a marshal came across and gave me a lecture about taking too long to hit the a shot.

On another occasion one of them "helped" someone look for a ball for longer than the allotted 5 minutes.

What is for sure is that they never seem to help the flow of play and speed up the muppets.

McLaren wrote:Super

The course marshals are a pain in the arse.  I was standing waiting for about 5 minutes in the middle of the 15th fairway as the group head messed about on the green and a marshal came across and gave me a lecture about taking too long to hit the a shot.

On another occasion one of them "helped" someone look for a ball for longer than the allotted 5 minutes.

What is for sure is that they never seem to help the flow of play and speed up the muppets.

I was three holes ahead of a group on the Eden on 11, but a hole behind a group in front (because a group had walked off at 9 and therefore created a gap) and he lost his head at me for being "slow".

They actually are paid to be seen and nothing else it seems. They certainly don't hurry groups up if they are visitors.

Played Trump International on Sunday.

Very windy day, kept you on your guard & it was very difficult to keep the ball on the fairway. Did birdie the first with a good drive & a 5 wood onto the green. That was my only highlight.

Course itself. You don't see the course until you stand on the 1st tee. Each hole is cocooned by the dunes. So playing any hole you can't see the next one or the last one you played.
My thoughts, still think the original Turnberry is the best I've played. Not played the Trumped up version.