Aviva Premiership Round 10

First topic message reminder :

Friday 1 December

19:45 Northampton v Newcastle
19:45 Worcester v Sale


Saturday 2 December

14:00 Exeter v Bath
15:00 Gloucester v. London Irish
16:30 Wasps v Leicester


Sunday 3 December

15:00 Harlequins v Saracens



Home wins Friday and Saturday, away win on Sunday is my guess

Rub of the green? TMO can't spot a grounding.

Scrum option??? Who the feck picked That!!

Looks like a potential end to Alex Waller consecutive game streak

What a throw. We are dreadful. Awful Falcons performance and we lose at home.

Didn't deserve to win that at All!

Covers over all the cracks!!!
And Saints are poor aswell

We didn't play well at all but Saints offered very little outside of the rolling maul. I'll take the win but we really need to start playing better. On the plus, Goneva, Harris and Matevesi played well.

Can't agree on Hodgson GF, he's an excellent 10 from the bench. He really lifts the tempo and makes things happen. I thought he played well when he came on.

Back up to 6/7th, keeps us from entering the dog fight at the bottom.

Probably my fault -I picked Saints to win by 1 on Superbru and they always do the opposite of what I pick - except when I picked them to beat LI of course

Cheers Heaf

Sarge

Harris had a good game and matavesi was canny.
I just have no faith in Hodgson.  He does play a higher tempo but often makes errors.

Flood is a major issue!

Then there's the scrum and pack. Where to start.

Why is Burrows not being picked??

Not looking good for Irish...

Gloucester are a transformed side...but yes your right Irish in trouble.

Especially with Worcester starting to find some form (despite defeat last night)

Ford is so good, his delayed passing is beautiful to watch.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Cipriani is so good, his delayed passing is beautiful to watch.

Fixed that for you

Just watched a wonderful game of premier rugby. Hard lines Tigers, that was a real ding dong affair with both sides having their moments, though with my biased eyes I thought our game plan and execution were always edging it - after the first quarter that is.

Great game.

Wasps 32 - Tigers 25

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Cheers Heaf

Always here to help

GeordieFalcon wrote:Gloucester are a transformed side...but yes your right Irish in trouble.

Especially with Worcester starting to find some form (despite defeat last night)

We're stuffed ... even when we manage to score the try is ruled out for a 'knock-on' off the knee, and forward passes are allowed when the oppo score - but we'd still contrive to lose somehow - today's piece of genius was Paice getting himself stupidly red-carded ...

Pause must be the most carded forward around. Constantly heaps pressure on Irish with his stupid antics

Unbelievably the ex-prop Tim Payne has stated on Twitter Paice's red card was a dreadful decision! It was as clear a red as you'll see; tackling the man without the ball, turning his shoulder into contact with no arms used, and the shoulder connecting straight with Heinz's head!

HongKongCherry wrote:Unbelievably the ex-prop Tim Payne has stated on Twitter Paice's red card was a dreadful decision! It was as clear a red as you'll see; tackling the man without the ball, turning his shoulder into contact with no arms used, and the shoulder connecting straight with Heinz's head!

With payne the term prop is a loose one...

And to think this guy was an England Int and Lion!

kingelderfield wrote:Just watched a wonderful game of premier rugby. Hard lines Tigers, that was a real ding dong affair with both sides having their moments, though with my biased eyes I thought our game plan and execution were always edging it - after the first quarter that is.

Great game.

Wasps 32 - Tigers 25

Great game. Even as a Tigers fan I felt Wasps edged it, after the first 20 minutes anyway. Tigers missed Toomua organising the defence on the midfield and Wasps were able to exploit that and create space out wide too often, Daly's try being a prime example. Holmes whilst finishing well isn't the kick chaser that May is and that eased the pressure on Ford's kicks. As a team Tigers had little things that just took away from our effectiveness and Wasps punished us.

Some interesting things struck me.
1. Wade produced an excellent defensive contribution and stopped one if not two tries with some great tackles (even if one of those tackles was a little bit armless).
2. What a signing Carr has been for Wasps, easy choice for man of he match.
3. The TMO was happy to jump in and point out missed knock ons but did bugger all when Robson dived off his feet to strip the ball from a tackled player. One of the most obviously cynical offences of the game which denied a try from being scored and not even a suggestion of a review? TMO bottled that completely. Incidentally if Ben Youngs had done that and got away with it I'd be delighted so I don't feel I can't moan too much about the impact on the game though penalty try and a yellow card would have been on the table given it was 30cm from the try line.

Just finished watching it - great game.

Wasn't sure if Robson stripped it or it was lost forwards and he gathered it - he was off his feet mind so there should have been a TMO review.

I also thought BY may have knocked the ball out of the ruck on the Tigers' line after that with his hand so maybe that evened it up?

Either way this was certainly the game of the weekend.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Just watched a wonderful game of premier rugby. Hard lines Tigers, that was a real ding dong affair with both sides having their moments, though with my biased eyes I thought our game plan and execution were always edging it - after the first quarter that is.

Great game.

Wasps 32 - Tigers 25

Great game. Even as a Tigers fan I felt Wasps edged it, after the first 20 minutes anyway. Tigers missed Toomua organising the defence on the midfield and Wasps were able to exploit that and create space out wide too often, Daly's try being a prime example. Holmes whilst finishing well isn't the kick chaser that May is and that eased the pressure on Ford's kicks. As a team Tigers had little things that just took away from our effectiveness and Wasps punished us.

Some interesting things struck me.
1. Wade produced an excellent defensive contribution and stopped one if not two tries with some great tackles (even if one of those tackles was a little bit armless).
2. What a signing Carr has been for Wasps, easy choice for man of he match.
3. The TMO was happy to jump in and point out missed knock ons but did bugger all when Robson dived off his feet to strip the ball from a tackled player. One of the most obviously cynical offences of the game which denied a try from being scored and not even a suggestion of a review? TMO bottled that completely. Incidentally if Ben Youngs had done that and got away with it I'd be delighted so I don't feel I can't moan too much about the impact on the game though penalty try and a yellow card would have been on the table given it was 30cm from the try line.

It seemed more like the Tiger tried to place the ball and Robson who was behind the goal line got his hands under it and stripped it while the ball was in the in-goal area which I think he is entitled to do. Surely the normal offside, ruck and maul rules do not apply once over the line.

Pretty happy quins are still in this game. Not sure how Sarries haven't had a man in the bin given the number of penalties after a warning mind...

Roberts carrying well, Robshaw on a mission. Missing Smith at 10 and relying on Care to be playmaker.

Exiledinborders wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

kingelderfield wrote:Just watched a wonderful game of premier rugby. Hard lines Tigers, that was a real ding dong affair with both sides having their moments, though with my biased eyes I thought our game plan and execution were always edging it - after the first quarter that is.

Great game.

Wasps 32 - Tigers 25

Great game. Even as a Tigers fan I felt Wasps edged it, after the first 20 minutes anyway. Tigers missed Toomua organising the defence on the midfield and Wasps were able to exploit that and create space out wide too often, Daly's try being a prime example. Holmes whilst finishing well isn't the kick chaser that May is and that eased the pressure on Ford's kicks. As a team Tigers had little things that just took away from our effectiveness and Wasps punished us.

Some interesting things struck me.
1. Wade produced an excellent defensive contribution and stopped one if not two tries with some great tackles (even if one of those tackles was a little bit armless).
2. What a signing Carr has been for Wasps, easy choice for man of he match.
3. The TMO was happy to jump in and point out missed knock ons but did bugger all when Robson dived off his feet to strip the ball from a tackled player. One of the most obviously cynical offences of the game which denied a try from being scored and not even a suggestion of a review? TMO bottled that completely. Incidentally if Ben Youngs had done that and got away with it I'd be delighted so I don't feel I can't moan too much about the impact on the game though penalty try and a yellow card would have been on the table given it was 30cm from the try line.

It seemed more like the Tiger tried to place the ball and Robson who was behind the goal line got his hands under it and stripped it while the ball was in the in-goal area which I think he is entitled to do. Surely the normal offside, ruck and maul rules do not apply once over the line.

Neither Robson nor the ball were over the try line. If they were then you'd expect a quick check in case of grounding. It happens so fast the ref is going to struggle to see what happens. That is where the TMO needed to asist him. He interrupted the game to point out a knock on at the lineout around halfway. Assisting a decision inches from the try line would be more useful even if the ref decides his initial decision is correct.

What a performance from Care and Robshaw.

Great game.

Cracking result for Quins. Played some decent rugby today and vastly improved the defence.

Robshaw was absolutely immense, all over the pitch. Care was excellent too.

Goode had an absolute stinker, might as well not have been moving the date Walker passed him to score.

mid_gen wrote:Cracking result for Quins. Played some decent rugby today and vastly improved the defence.

Robshaw was absolutely immense, all over the pitch. Care was excellent too.

Goode had an absolute stinker,  might as well not have been moving the date Walker passed him to score.

Quins deserved the win but the decision to award them a penalty at the end which led to them winning was wrong.  Grabbing hold of the shirt to make a tackle is not an offence and has never been. Grabbing the collar is because it is above the line of the shoulders (see below) but clearly the Sarries player grabbed his shirt on his number.

World Rugby Law 10.4(e) wrote:
(e) Dangerous tackling.
A player must not tackle an opponent early, late or dangerously.
Sanction: Penalty kick

A player must not tackle (or try to tackle) an opponent above the line of the shoulders even if the tackle starts below the line of the shoulders. A tackle around the opponent’s neck or head is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

A ‘stiff-arm tackle’ is dangerous play. A player makes a stiff-arm tackle when using a stiff-arm to strike an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Playing a player without the ball is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

A player must not tackle an opponent whose feet are off the ground.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Yet again a game with an incorrect TMO decision. If TMO do not know the rules what is the point of having them?

What a game and what a win.

Commiserations Sarries' fans

Now can we play like that next week please?

Enjoyed that game and Sarries were done by the poor call by the TMO regarding the high tackle.

However if you just sit back and try to win by defending a lead then you are going to get caught out sometimes. There was a distinct lack of adventure about Sarries and their style seems to have regressed to what it was a couple of years ago, all about the defence.

Sarries will be there at seasons end no doubt, but they are not firing on all cylinders at the moment. They will need to up their game for the double header with Clermont coming up!

Yeeeaaassss nothing feels better then beating Globo Gym

Decisions go both ways. Sarries were warned but conceded several more penalties in the first half without a yellow which was baffling. Penalty against Robshaw for his turnover in front of the sticks was nonsense. These things even out.

Still amazed at Robshaw's shift, best back row performance I've seen this year easily, he was absolutely everywhere.

Also fair play to Nick Kennedy for not being a total Steve Diamond post match:

"London Irish director of rugby Nick Kennedy admitted it was "a definite red card".

"I watched it once back on the replay and the referee got it spot on," he told BBC Radio."

BigGee wrote:Enjoyed that game and Sarries were done by the poor call by the TMO regarding the high tackle.

However if you just sit back and try to win by defending a lead then you are going to get caught out sometimes. There was a distinct lack of adventure about Sarries and their style seems to have regressed to what it was a couple of years ago, all about the defence.

Sarries will be there at seasons end no doubt, but they are not firing on all cylinders at the moment. They will need to up their game for the double header with Clermont coming up!

Sarries have now lost five matches in a row, across AP and AWC. Their attack has been fantastic in the two matches against Saints, but other than those (and especially away from home) they have seemed to huff and puff. They will indeed need to lift their performance levels for the next fortnight.

I am sure they will.
Sarries could easily have won a lot of those matches that they lost.
The Quins performance surprised a lot of their own fans too - so I am sure that Sarries didn't expect quite the reaction they got from Quins.

I haven't seen it myself but several other people at the game have said there was another penalty offence in the same passage of play as Skelton's so Quins would probably have had the pen anyway. Most Sarries fans have been pretty gracious about it anyway and made the point that they just didn't create or convert enough chances.

Reflecting on Sarries' performance, a few things struck me:
- They didn't make many line breaks. Their try came from one of the few good ones, where James Lang got injured trying to make the tackle. I think they may be missing Billy a lot.
- They made a fair few half breaks, but got snuffed out by the scramble defence. Whether that's just Quins being desperate or a more systematic "we've worked you out" I don't know
- The wolfpack defence was really good at stopping players on the line, but they weren't contesting the breakdown much, and a team that was happy to play ball in hand and be patient could make ground, not least because...
- ...their discipline was weak. After the early pen from Farrell, Sarries gave away a long string of them and got a warning (but not a card) from the ref
- Ultimately, all three of Quins' tries came from the Sarries' defence pushing up and Care putting a ball behind it. Two of them exploited Goode's relative lack of pace or positioning.

Marcus Smith's late withdrawal meant we didn't get to see whether he could get the defence moving one way and then exploit it by changing direction, but I think people are beginning to work out the wolfpack and find ways to get behind it. It will be interesting to see if Sarries can adapt.