Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[munkian]

First topic message reminder :

Their backs. Wow.

Jackman really can't settle on a hooker mind.

Just saw Simon Thomas tweet Leon Brown has suffered a second concussion. If that's so, I wonder if that means the first wasn't really dealt with properly?

Are you sure ? I've read it that he suffered a concussion so he hasn't been picked INCASE he suffers another.

[munkian]

Pat Howard is off to Ealing Trail finders.

[munkian]

Tyler Morgan has extended his contract.

[munkian]

Aaron Jarvis from Clermont to Dragons.

Big Samoan lock on the way too.

[Guest]

Aaron Jarvis from Clermont to Dragons.

Big Samoan lock on the way too.

I posted the other day about him being at Clermont. I hadn’t realised he was there and wondered if he could be enticed back! Good signing IMO.

[Kingshu]

Do Dragons fans still think Jackman is the man for the job?

Also with the new signings, Dragons fans must be at their most positive they have been in years?

How do you see next season going?

I've said for years that Dragons fans want a Rodney parade to be a fortress and build from there, is that stills case?

[munkian]

Do Dragons fans still think Jackman is the man for the job?

Also with the new signings, Dragons fans must be at their most positive they have been in years?

How do you see next season going?

I've said for years that Dragons fans want a Rodney parade to be a fortress and build from there, is that stills case?

The litmus test is next season, he's actually taken the blame for the awful results in his latest interview so I'm going to reserve judgement till our first 4-5 games.

We won't have much time to gel but we are bringing in a lot of experience so hopefully things will go a lot better.

Winning our home games or at least making it a hard place to go is a must.

[RiscaGame]

He will undoubtedly look better next season, as he has been given the opportunity to buy players that no other coach has had before. I'm not convinced by him, but will give him a fair crack with his own squad.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

He'd better do well with his own squad, given how critical he's been of the squad he inherited.

I really shouldn't feel optimistic about next season, but I do. God help me, I do.

[Guest]

He'd better do well with his own squad, given how critical he's been of the squad he inherited.

I really shouldn't feel optimistic about next season, but I do. God help me, I do.

Feel exactly the same. Happens every season! Season ends and I feel all doom and gloom. Then a signing or two and everything’s rosy!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

History has taught us nothing!

[mikey_dragon]

Do Dragons fans still think Jackman is the man for the job?

Also with the new signings, Dragons fans must be at their most positive they have been in years?

How do you see next season going?

I've said for years that Dragons fans want a Rodney parade to be a fortress and build from there, is that stills case?

Most of us were positive, then we found out about the signings... I can see us picking up maybe 5 wins next season but on the whole I'm not convinced by the 'squad transformation.'

[mikey_dragon]

North has signed for Ospreys as expected and he had this to say:

""I believe the Ospreys have an exciting future with the structure and the recruitment they have put in place..."

He obviously didn't do his research

[mikey_dragon]

Aaron Jarvis from Clermont to Dragons.

Big Samoan lock on the way too.

I posted the other day about him being at Clermont. I hadn’t realised he was there and wondered if he could be enticed back! Good signing IMO.

Why do you rate him? He struggles during scrum time. I think Clermont had signed him as he plays like an extra flanker, and I'm not sure if that's what we need.

[Guest]

Aaron Jarvis from Clermont to Dragons.

Big Samoan lock on the way too.

I posted the other day about him being at Clermont. I hadn’t realised he was there and wondered if he could be enticed back! Good signing IMO.

Why do you rate him? He struggles during scrum time. I think Clermont had signed him as he plays like an extra flanker, and I'm not sure if that's what we need.

I rate him as a decent scrummager at pro club level. Perhaps not so much at international level. A step too far for him perhaps. But he’ll be good for us in the Pro14. Saying that, it’s not just about the props. We need decent scrummaging 2nd rows and hookers too. Props can’t do it all on their own, especially when facing teams with good scrummaging props, hooker and 2nd rows.

[mikey_dragon]

Well I rate Dee, Brown and Hill... I also remember Jarvis playing on both sides of the scrum, or is that just me? Bevington I don't particularly rate and I have no idea about any incoming lock. If we have aspirations of beating teams like Leinster then I don't believe these are the personnel to do it.

On the lock debate, Grobler at Munster will be a free agent at the end of this season. 6'7 and 19 stone....

[Guest]

Well I rate Dee, Brown and Hill... I also remember Jarvis playing on both sides of the scrum, or is that just me? Bevington I don't particularly rate and I have no idea about any incoming lock. If we have aspirations of beating teams like Leinster then I don't believe these are the personnel to do it.

On the lock debate, Grobler at Munster will be a free agent at the end of this season. 6'7 and 19 stone....

Yet deemed surplus to requirements at Munster? What’s wrong with him?!

[Brendan]

Don't take it the wrong way but back up at Munster can still be a good standard for the Dragons.

It might be his doping that makes him a cheap choice. He was also a filler for Munster while they waited for Bernie

[mikey_dragon]

Oracle, I was told that he was signed as a stop gap, between Ryan leaving and Beirne incoming. Grobler has super rugby and top 14 experience, I think he could be a handy addition if given the chance to work with Dee, Brown, Hill... Jarvis! BJ is convinced Jarvis has improved a lot through his time with Clermont - it's not often that happens for Welsh players. I hope he's right and I also hope there's a few more gems coming up in the academy.

[mikey_dragon]

Who's the Samoan someone mentioned anyway, I really hope it isn't Filo Paulo....

[RiscaGame]

Nansen from Stade.

On paper, it's a good enough signing. His injury record has to be a bit of a concern though. I guess Bernard won't flog him as much as he possibly was in France.

[VinceWLB]

Who's the Samoan someone mentioned anyway, I really hope it isn't Filo Paulo....

Indeed, huge guy but terrible player in the tight. Generally pacific islander are never great in the tight though. I thought you guys would look at James Down, underrated player and seems to be out of favour at the Blues (or is he injured?)

Anyway, the couple of props that you have signed while good in the loose aren't going to instill fear in the opposition heads at scrum time.

[PhilBB]

Who's the Samoan someone mentioned anyway, I really hope it isn't Filo Paulo....

Indeed, huge guy but terrible player in the tight. Generally pacific islander are never great in the tight though. I thought you guys would look at James Down, underrated player and seems to be out of favour at the Blues (or is he injured?)

Anyway, the couple of props that you have signed while good in the loose aren't going to instill fear in the opposition heads at scrum time.

They need strength in depth. When your best loose head is also your best tight head, you know you have problems. When you have Thomas Davies and Garrett and co as props, you really are in the pwp.

The only players signed by the Dragons so far that will improve the first team are Moriarty (if he's ever fit) and Rhodri Williams. The rest are just squad players.

[mikey_dragon]

Whilst Nansen was a bit of a regular for North Harbour he didn't quite make it into Super Rugby, and has 4 appearances this season for Stade Francais in what is a long Top 14 season. That doesn't look good on paper to me. Grobler is out of contract and is South African IE better, and Saffa's don't mind coming to us so they can play alongside other Saffa's - come on BJ at least try!

[VinceWLB]

Yes, Grobler would be a good signing for the Dragons. There was also Bresler who was out of favor at Edinburgh (for some unknown and mysterious reasons to me) but he signed for Worcester. They are exactly the kind of players they should aim for, not 2nd rate Samoan journeyman.

[PhilBB]

Whilst Nansen was a bit of a regular for North Harbour he didn't quite make it into Super Rugby, and has 4 appearances this season for Stade Francais in what is a long Top 14 season. That doesn't look good on paper to me. Grobler is out of contract and is South African IE better, and Saffa's don't mind coming to us so they can play alongside other Saffa's - come on BJ at least try!

He broke his arm, didn't he?

[Guest]

Yes, Grobler would be a good signing for the Dragons. There was also Bresler who was out of favor at Edinburgh (for some unknown and mysterious reasons to me) but he signed for Worcester. They are exactly the kind of players they should aim for, not 2nd rate Samoan journeyman.

While I do agree with you, couldn’t Bresler and Grobler be described as journeymen too? Sounds like they’re travelling around from SA to Scotland/Ireland and then onto the English Prem (Bresler) and are now being touted as potential for welsh teams. Isn’t that a journeyman? How much more ‘journeying’ has Nansen done?

[VinceWLB]

Yes, Grobler would be a good signing for the Dragons. There was also Bresler who was out of favor at Edinburgh (for some unknown and mysterious reasons to me) but he signed for Worcester. They are exactly the kind of players they should aim for, not 2nd rate Samoan journeyman.

While I do agree with you, couldn’t Bresler and Grobler be described as journeymen too? Sounds like they’re travelling around from SA to Scotland/Ireland and then onto the English Prem (Bresler) and are now being touted as potential for welsh teams. Isn’t that a journeyman? How much more ‘journeying’ has Nansen done?

Well.. Good point! In the end this probably means i would take a 2nd rate SA journeymen over an (unproven) Samoan one any day of the week.

[Welshmushroom]

Whilst Nansen was a bit of a regular for North Harbour he didn't quite make it into Super Rugby, and has 4 appearances this season for Stade Francais in what is a long Top 14 season. That doesn't look good on paper to me. Grobler is out of contract and is South African IE better, and Saffa's don't mind coming to us so they can play alongside other Saffa's - come on BJ at least try!

Keep in mind there have been players with similar injury records that have been gone on to become great signings. Regan King had a similar track record prior to joining Scarlets. Easily one of their best signings ever. Game isn't played on paper at the end of the day

[Guest]

The major problem for the Dragons is the market we're shopping in. We can't afford the top pros, or if we can table a good offer that matches something the big sides offer then they've got to choose between staying/signing at the big side or choosing the Dragons. It's likely they'll choose the big side. So the top internationals and pros are probably out of our reach. Plus those will often be away a lot with their international sides which doesn't help us and our lack of depth. So that means we're shopping at the next level down. So, based on reading the comments on here and elsewhere, what we want are players that are:

Really good - some signings so far have been described as 'poor' or 'rubbish'
BUT who are perhaps not good enough for international rugby (or are being overlooked)
AND they're the right age (not too old and past it, not too young and inexperienced)
AND they're not journeymen just going from club to club looking for the wages
AND they're proven winners
AND they're not injury prone
AND they're available and out of contract currently (as I assume we can't buy these players out).

How many of these types of players are actually available, out of contract this summer, awesome but with no club?! Like rocking horse sh*t, surely?!

We have to concede on some of the points above, I feel. We have no choice. And we then have to build a squad around players with enough of these attributes collectively to improve on our current position.

[PhilBB]

For me, screaming "we've got no money" doesn't wash if:

- you've spunked £1.5m+ of somebody else's money this season
- you outbid your own major shareholder for Moriarty
- Moriarty is costing 10% of the entire squad budget

[Guest]

For me, screaming "we've got no money" doesn't wash if:

- you've spunked £1.5m+ of somebody else's money this season
- you outbid your own major shareholder for Moriarty
- Moriarty is costing 10% of the entire squad budget

You've missed the point of my post, Phil.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

For what it's worth:

Dragons: H Amos, A Hewitt, Z Kirchner, C Edwards, J Rosser, A Robson, C Davies, T Davies, E Dee (captain), L Fairbrother, J Davies, R Landman, H Keddie, A Wainwright, J Benjamin. Reps: L Belcher, L Garrett, D Suter, M Williams, T Basham, S Pretorius, A Warren, J Goodchild.

[PhilBB]

For me, screaming "we've got no money" doesn't wash if:

- you've spunked £1.5m+ of somebody else's money this season
- you outbid your own major shareholder for Moriarty
- Moriarty is costing 10% of the entire squad budget

You've missed the point of my post, Phil.

Apologies.

What point did I miss?

[RiscaGame]

We were in trouble anyway, but you have to worry for us tomorrow with that team. Thomas Davies is going to have a bad time in the scrum and Hill is a big loss for us given it's often only him and Dee that constantly shine for us as forwards. Not too much impact off the bench either.

Good to see Benjamin and Amos back.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Test players galore in the Scarlets side. There's only one winner.

[RiscaGame]

Scarlets: Halfpenny; Nicholas, S Williams (capt), Parkes, S Evans; Patchell, G Davies; R Evans, Elias, Lee, Rawlins, Cummins, Beirne, J Davies, Boyde.

Replacements: Owens, Price, Kruger, Bulbring, Barclay, J Evans, D Jones, Hughes.

Owens and Barclay off the bench for a start is ridiculous, without "lesser players" like Jonny Evs and Bulbring to come on. Wave the white flag now Bernard

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Kirchner in midfield is an accident waiting to happen. Out defence has been bad enough without sticking a fullback in midfield!

[Cardiff Dave]

Reckon the Drags need scrum and lineout practice.

[Guest]

Scathing comments about th Dragons by Gareth Davies after the game! Ouch!!!

[RiscaGame]

Heard that Mikey’s favourite 9 Tavis Knoyle is being retained.

Dragons are in the Rugby Paper today as trying to loan Owen Williams and are signing Daf Howells from Ospreys.

[RiscaGame]

Scathing comments about th Dragons by Gareth Davies after the game! Ouch!!!

Would’ve been interesting to see a response from us over that. Pretty poor form for him to do that, even if it is true.

[Guest]

Scathing comments about th Dragons by Gareth Davies after the game! Ouch!!!

Would’ve been interesting to see a response from us over that. Pretty poor form for him to do that, even if it is true.

Completely agree. He has a point, and we are pretty poor/average, but you don’t win any prizes for being a pr*ck! Actually, to say we dragged them down to our level is such a lame excuse for not performing well. Such an easy out for any team to claim that. Others have beaten us soundly by playing at a much higher level than us, so Scarlets should have just done that instead! Get the feeling he thought we should have just gifted them the 4 tries and 5 points rather than put up a fight.

[Guest]

Dan Suter pretty much epitomised the Dragons and our season for me. Absolutely munched in the scrums, taken off but then brought back on when we had a prop sin binned and forced to go through the mill again! Looked completely lost, fed up and out of his depth. Men against boys.

[mikey_dragon]

We already knew that about guys like Suter, Tavis Knoyle, etc. - which makes me wonder why we signed them?

[mikey_dragon]

Heard that Mikey’s favourite 9 Tavis Knoyle is being retained.

Dragons are in the Rugby Paper today as trying to loan Owen Williams and are signing Daf Howells from Ospreys.

I don't see why though when we've signed two far better 9's, and have promising guys like Leonard and Babos. Rosser and Robson I rate too but both need tackling practice.

To loan him, not sure if he's even out of favour at Glaws? Howells I rate highly. I'd have thought that Ospreys were keen to retain him given their luck with wingers, and North won't exactly be around for every game.

[mikey_dragon]

I think that lock Grobler is going to Glaws. Too bad for us.

[ScarletSpiderman]

Scathing comments about th Dragons by Gareth Davies after the game! Ouch!!!

Would’ve been interesting to see a response from us over that. Pretty poor form for him to do that, even if it is true.

Completely agree. He has a point, and we are pretty poor/average, but you don’t win any prizes for being a pr*ck! Actually, to say we dragged them down to our level is such a lame excuse for not performing well. Such an easy out for any team to claim that. Others have beaten us soundly by playing at a much higher level than us, so Scarlets should have just done that instead! Get the feeling he thought we should have just gifted them the 4 tries and 5 points rather than put up a fight.

Totally lacking class with the comments. I think Cawdor will get dragged up on this, as he also had a pop at the ‘clueless’ ref with regards tgrvscrums on the first half.

Whilst not as bad Eliot Dee’s comments at half time didn’t do him much favour either.

[Guest]

I missed the half time interviews, SS. What did Dee say???

[ScarletSpiderman]

It was about how the Scarlets have been bigging themselves up all week but ain’t up to much on the feild.

[Guest]

Oops! Yeah, not classy either.

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