Cheating

Just thought i'd open this up for people to vent and let us know their experiences.

Recently we've had SaltmanGate. There has been the Vijay issue resurfacing in recent months and now its Gary Player and the Lytham thing raising it's head agai.

So I thought I'd see what experiences you've had of cheats and cheating. I'll open up with this one.

When I was a junior we had a guy that it was said he could hit a ball so hard the number would change! If he hit it in the rough bizarrely always had a clear shot at the green and if he went in a bunker his ball always sat up! he was also equiped with the magic counter where a 5 was a 4 etc.... Whenever he played junior league matches opponents would complain (rightly so) and he never won a match..He was named Junior club champion one year thanks to his magic of all the above and this meant he gained entry to the mens club championship where he came unstuck and low and behold his 3 handicap was put under revision by county and when he did his 3 cards with a county marker they revised his handicap to 10! after that he played no more than a dozen competitive rounds of which i played half with him (luck of the draw i'm told, more likely I was the only one with the front to take him to task) and he never shot below his 10handicap. Realising no-one wanted to play with him and that he wasn't the player he'd made everyone believe he was he gave up the game. Why was he never brought to taks earlier for his crimes... He was the junior organisers son....

Thats one of my experiences so over to you guys

On a par with the changing numbers bit - I played with a chap once and his ball actually changed colour in the rough!! We assumed it was fertilizer!!!!!! Have also seen the leather wedge employed on a few occasions - but in my experience people are always confronted about it.

It really isn't the game to be caught cheating.

I played in a junior county match and one of the players on the other team was actually caught red-handed dropping a ball in the rough during the afternoon singles. One of the spectators supporting their team saw him and mentioned it to our player, who duly involved both organisers to get the match stopped. He was made to stay for the rest of the afternoon and support the rest of the team, while obviously enduring the embarrassment of spectators and players on either team pointing and whispering. Obviously his last junior county match...

I once played (only a bounce match but money was on it) with a guy who was about 20 yards from the green and had a wedge in hand. He gave it a little waggle and accidentally clipped the ball, moving it an inch or two.
He straightened up, had a little glance over his shoulder to where me and the 3rd guy in the group were standing (behind him), re-stanced and hit the shot. Never said a word. I looked at the other guy, we'd both seen it, and smiled.
I never took him to task but did add the shot on at the end. He never questioned it

Some people are funny

Actually, maybe worse than a leather wedge or ball hole in the pocket was a game a played recently where the two guys cheated on their handicap! They were friends of a friend and we were playing doubles for only a minimal amount of money but they stated that their respective handicaps were 9 and 24. I shot level par gross and we lost 7 and 6 with the 9 handicapper nudging a respectable 4 over gross and the 24 handicapper shooting 14 over gross. It was the most pointless bit of cheating that I have encountered because it was 6.30 on a sunday morning for £5 - the worse bit was the way they both spent 16 holes claiming that they were having the rounds of their lives and never normally play like that and this was after a birdie-eagle and par-birdie start from the pair of them. Next time we played, I handed them a fiver on the first and suggested we just keep it friendly and enjoy the weather - they shot similar scores again but at least I didn't have to hear excuses...

Sharrison, i think rather than hand them another fiver i might have been tempted to hand them something more painful!

They were a bit big to be honest - think of two 18 stoners, bald and one with a moustache. They were very quickly named Eduardo and Fernando to reflect their Mexican-ness and dubious ways...

Ok, i shall amend my statement to -

"i think rather than hand them another fiver i, and my brother, might have been tempted to hand them something more painful!

l played with two "freinds" as a junior and we were having a bit of an off day and i decided to call it a day after 7 holes and walked in....the other two then miraculously shot level par or better for the remainder of the game.....sure you did guys. the match secretary was not happy with me for walking in !!!!! even as a 16 yr old i pointed out that it wasnt me he should be talking too !!!!!

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone deliberately cheating. But unintentional cheating - every weekend.

Using a DMD when there's no local rule - 'there doesn't need to be a local rule, they are allowed in the RoG'

Moving sand from behind the ball on the fairway - 'you can move sand except in a bunker can't you?'

Ignoring the starting sheet order, the low handicapper drives off first.

Moving branches, leaves, twigs and acorns in a bunker

Not declaring a provisional ball as such, and then finding and playing the first ball.

I was playing in a centenary bash at one of our associated clubs. Two members playing with two guests. One of the members addressed the ball on the fairway and then stepped away from the ball. He said "the ball moved", so I said "shot penalty". He said that it hadn't moved that much and refused the penalty. Trouble is when you are a guest on a celebratory day you don't want to make a fuss! It made no difference at the end of the day.

Not like the occasion when I was in an Am-am. Two club members (I was one), a guest and a "celeb". the course was quite new and there was a local rule allowing preferred lies on the fairway. On the tenth hole, the guest carved it right. He asked his mate who was just a spectator whether he was on the fairway. His mate said yes so he picked and placed. To any member, he was clearly in the rough and I pointed out that he should have asked one of us whether he was on fairway. By the time we got to the green, with me still complaining, our "celeb" more or less told me to button it cos it's supposed to be a fun day. The guest went on to win the day! I was not happy

George1507 wrote:I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone deliberately cheating. But unintentional cheating - every weekend.

Using a DMD when there's no local rule - 'there doesn't need to be a local rule, they are allowed in the RoG'

Moving sand from behind the ball on the fairway - 'you can move sand except in a bunker can't you?'

Ignoring the starting sheet order, the low handicapper drives off first.

Moving branches, leaves, twigs and acorns in a bunker

Not declaring a provisional ball as such, and then finding and playing the first ball.

almost every one of those... declaring is almost a "given" -no it's bloody not!! declare it or...

Played recently with my brother, who can't help himself as he needs to prove he's on a par with me. I've witnessed balls flying into huge bushes, but apparently must have gone clean through. I've seen plugged balls in bunker faces achieve an up and down. I've seen balls found in jungle, which fly out and finish up on the green. My brother is better than big Phil, at times as his recovery from seemingly unplayable positions is awesome.

I'm now learning the art of counting backwards, and how to play a found ball instead of my own when i play the little git. I'm just glad our mother is not around anymore to see how her little favorite turned out

I played with a guy who cracked his drive away on a 330ish par 4 where the green is hidden down in dip and is only visible from about 10 yards away. It was heading slightly right and looked to be heading into some thick stuff, we searched and searched and then when my back was turned he 'found' his ball in pretty reasonable spot with a simple little flick over the brow of the hill.
He knocked it on, I knocked mine on and we wandered down only to find three balls on the green (two of them with identical markings) his drive had obviously taken a quirky bounce and trundled on to the green...I marked mine asked him which one of the others was his and put the other one in my pocket, for a second he opened his mouth to claim it as his then realised he couldn't. He fell apart completely after that...guilty concience.

I have to confess that I have been guilty of cheating. It was during a friendly game with a few boys from work and we went out in two fourballs. My Aussie colleague and friend was playing in the group behind me and he is just an awful, awful golfer despite having all the gear, having lessons and practising. We watched from the par 4 third green as he knocked one out of bounds and then ripped his third towards us while we were putting out. It come to rest one the fringe so I promptly dropped it into the hole and the four of us started jumping up and down. He's a fit triathlete guy and ran the length of the hole to celebrate before phoning his parents in Australia and waking them up to tell them of his hole in one (4).

His reaction was so much more than what we expected that to this day we haven't had the heart to let him in on it. Shameful behaviour and not within the rules but well within the rights of a mate...

Cheating is pretty prevalent these days, especially in non drawn events or midweek sweeps.
We've got a couple who stink the place out in drawn events but take turns in midweek sweeps where one shoots the lights out whilst the other makes buffer. Next week the other one has the good round. It's as clear as day but nothing can be done about it unless they actually see them.
Ultimately they are only deluding themselves with their "lower" handicaps and they get found out when they have to play with people who can keep an eye on them but isn't it rather pathetic that people cheat in something which we do for pleasure?

SR spot on there, it is rather sad and petty that people need to resort to cheating in something they should gain pleasure from but in todays game its a very common occurence.

Another I remember happened recently in our Masters event (a drawn comp so no mates to cover for him), I was not in the group in question but in the one behind being held up by the guy with the magic wand. The guy in question had hit his tee shot into to trees on the right side of our difficult 4th hole, and from our postion on the tee we could see him take in the region of 5 shots in the trees but was still in them after the 5th attempt to get out, he proceeded to pick his ball out and throw it to the middle of the fairway (his playing partners from their angle could not see what he was doing or how many duff swipes he'd had) from the middle of the fairway he played a beauty of an approach and went on to hole the putt. Had a little chat with his playing partners to ask what he said he'd scored on the hole, he'd claimed a miraculous par 4.. He had totally discounted the 5 hacks at the ball and the fact he'd picked up and lobbed the ball anyway was a DQ. Informed his partners what we had witnessed and they kindly allowed him to play out his round and hole out on the 18th at which time when he went to sign his card his playing partner refused to sign and reported him to the tournament comittee, who subsequently banned him and also banned for the next 3 months

There is quite subtle ways in which people cheat too. I'm a member of a couple of clubs and often people will only hand their good cards into their home club when they've been playing away.

One exponent of this is a cheat in other ways including the footwedge and the Oddjob. His card is well and truly marked and has been told he's under close scrutiny. The stigma he has will never go away. I've had the displeasure of being drawn with him on a few occasions and I've never seen any player supposedly off 1 have so many poor shots. I've seen him top the ball several times off the tee. That would never happen if he actually had a true handicap. The worst thing is he's been granted a place in a college in America. He'll get found out there I hope, the smug little get.

SR - while the responsibility for handing in cards when people play at 2 clubs is with the player, the clubs now forward any details also. Not sure about Scotland, but certainly England and Wales have the whole thing computerised, and "open" events are captured as well as details from the second club.
I also play at 2 clubs and there is no way they would not pass scores and css details etc. A pal of mine also plays at 2 clubs and thought he was getting away with something for a while - WRONG!!
If yours don't pass the details I would give them a nudge.

Puligny, It's mostly computerised here too, but if you don't inform your away club where your home club is how do they forward it and how does the computer know which "John Smith" the card or computer entered score refers too? This guy gets away with murder.
It's getting harder for these cheats to get round it, but it's still doable if you are crafty or devious enough.

I also play a lot of Opens and I always ask if they forward my details on so that I can get an extra card signed if required. Not all of them do it automatically.

puligny wrote:SR - while the responsibility for handing in cards when people play at 2 clubs is with the player, the clubs now forward any details also. Not sure about Scotland, but certainly England and Wales have the whole thing computerised, and "open" events are captured as well as details from the second club.
I also play at 2 clubs and there is no way they would not pass scores and css details etc. A pal of mine also plays at 2 clubs and thought he was getting away with something for a while - WRONG!!
If yours don't pass the details I would give them a nudge.

Indeed - I got 0.1 automatically added after playing in that bloody Easter Monday event at Saunton!

SR - Not sure if you have this yet in Scotland, but here everyone has a unique reference number which appears on the handicap certificate and that tags you for all competitions. I guess it is possible to hoodwink the away club for a while, but at some point they are going to want that number. All they do then is reference the number to the competition and details automatically find their way to your home club.
I am playing the Highland Open (?) at Pitlochry later in the year - interesting to see how quickly the details come back. Played an event in Wales and they were back before I was off the M4!!!

sejorge wrote:I played with a guy who cracked his drive away on a 330ish par 4 where the green is hidden down in dip and is only visible from about 10 yards away. It was heading slightly right and looked to be heading into some thick stuff, we searched and searched and then when my back was turned he 'found' his ball in pretty reasonable spot with a simple little flick over the brow of the hill.
He knocked it on, I knocked mine on and we wandered down only to find three balls on the green (two of them with identical markings) his drive had obviously taken a quirky bounce and trundled on to the green...I marked mine asked him which one of the others was his and put the other one in my pocket, for a second he opened his mouth to claim it as his then realised he couldn't. He fell apart completely after that...guilty concience.

Result. Very sweet indeed.


Experienced the usual stuff - people claiming the wrong number of shots on a hole, grounding club in a hazard, replacing marked ball forward of mark a la Saltman, mysteriously 'finding' their lost ball etc etc.

Best occurrence of this last was when I was a junior playing a match. Was level down last (a par 5) and oppo had hooked into trees ~120 yards short of green. We couldn't find his ball in the allotted 5 mins and just as we were about to give it up, he 'finds' it. Ok says I and he plays out and ultimately makes his 'par' for a half. Trouble is, as he's pitching out and I'm ~15 yards further up the hole at the edge of the trees I tread on his ball; no doubt it's his either. As I'm stood next to the hole when he makes 'par', I pick his ball out of the hole for him and then 'notice' that he's played the wrong ball and therefore lost. He wasn't impressed and was probably less so later on as I gave his real ball to their Junior organiser along with the accompanying tale.

Question for you all; I find I sometimes inadvertently move the ball in the process of marking it. I can't honestly say whether the marker is already 'grounded' or not when this happens, but my hand almost certainly is. Is this a penalty?

I've never seen anyone deliberately cheating.
My one question in all this,is,when in competition,why are the same people always allowed to play with each other,as they do at my club.
Is there more chance that a friend or relative will turn a blind eye?
Would the occasional ball be kicked out of the rough,or,mysteriously find its way through a Gorse bush.
I don'd think that regular golfing buddys should have the comfort of playing competitions with each other at home clubs.

At our club, Medals are drawn, but Stablefords you choose your tee-off time.

I'm delighthed to say, that I've never experienced anyone intentionally cheating during my 2.5 years at the club.

Probably technically it is a penalty, I think in that case you should just exercise common sense.
If there is anything just as bad as cheats, it's pedantic rule Nazi's.
The game at our level is supposed to be competitive, but fun.
If there is no discernable advantage gained and a "rule" has been transgressed innocently then I don't see any problem with it.
If it happens all the time, perhaps there's an issue, but a one off shouldn't present a penal award.

super_realist wrote:Probably technically it is a penalty, I think in that case you should just exercise common sense.
If there is anything just as bad as cheats, it's pedantic rule Nazi's.
The game at our level is supposed to be competitive, but fun.
If there is no discernable advantage gained and a "rule" has been transgressed innocently then I don't see any problem with it.
If it happens all the time, perhaps there's an issue, but a one off shouldn't present a penal award.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with that view.

I may not agree with some of the rules but, whilst they are in the rule book, they should be observed by all. They ARE the rules of golf and you can't pick and choose which ones you apply.

You'd be on the 'watch list' at our place, SR!

Merc, I'm talking about there being too many rules for one person to know and be able to interpret.

The whole problem with the rules is that there are too many and some or too complicated and ambiguous.
Yes, it's our responsibility to know the rules, however an element of common sense for insignificant things like whether a ball oscillated or whether it moved a nanometre needs to be instigated. I'm not talking about breaking rules, i'm talking about when it is impossible to determine whether a rule has been broken or not.

Remember golf is supposed to be fun. The fuddiness and duddiness of the sport is why it is so widely ridiculed and thought of as a sport for boring old farts.

Cheating to me is a predetermined act of deceipt and not a miniscule error made entirely innocently or accidently. Technically it could be breaking the rules, but haven't we seen enough ridiculous decisions with Poulter and Harrington for daft rules to be taken quite so seriously/literally.

In the past year or two i have called 2 penalties on myself for a ball moving on the green, 1 for nudging a ball with my wedge (careless) on the fairway and 1 for not starting and finishing a hole with the same ball (hit pov (totally different brand), found 1st, prov goes in pocket, ball marked on green, wrong ball comes out of pocket and putt is hit, realised wrong ball was played when tapping in) and playing from the wrong tee... and the reaction i get on the first 3 was astonishing, all my playing partners were very, very suprised by it, half said how very honest i was, the other half basically said i should forget it and they'd sign me card anyway as I hadn't gained an advantage. I just explained to them that i would have an advantage if i hadn't called it and some other honest fellow who had done the same thing had.
When cursing my bad fortune/carelessness in the clubhouse after many people have said i was an idiot for admitting it!
In another case a member i played tried to take a drop from some bushes as if they were a water hazard! i.e. i think it came in on this line so i'll drop here... i quickly informed this senior member that he had of his actual options of which on the only realistic one was to replay his shot... he actually played it his way and clarified it afterwards with the comps chairman! So he lost his 1 point on the at hole.
Begged the question, how long has be being getting away with that and how many of his mates do the same thing?

My only confession is that when i played in a comp, i wiped a catkin of the line of my putt with my putter head, after the hole member informed me of the rule, but said he'd let me off, being a newish member i just apologised and played on... It bothered me though and i played terribly... and basically played myself out of the comp... I asked him at the end if he could change my score to account for it before he signed but he said it was pointless as i was coming nowhere anyway so i just let it drop.
But i learnt me lesson and from now on i just call it, add it on and move on...

Rossa wrote:My only confession is that when i played in a comp, i wiped a catkin of the line of my putt with my putter head, after the hole member informed me of the rule, but said he'd let me off, being a newish member i just apologised and played on...

What is the correct procedure here just out of interest? Is the penalty because you used your putter head to move it?

wolfrunna wrote:I've never seen anyone deliberately cheating.
My one question in all this,is,when in competition,why are the same people always allowed to play with each other,as they do at my club.
Is there more chance that a friend or relative will turn a blind eye?
Would the occasional ball be kicked out of the rough,or,mysteriously find its way through a Gorse bush.
I don'd think that regular golfing buddys should have the comfort of playing competitions with each other at home clubs.

Woolfy I have seen plenty of cheating and agree with you that all comp's should be drawn. Mid-week medals at our place are a licence to 'engineer'. Recently saw 2 mates playing badly together but scoring well? Even though I witnessed one go out of bounds and climb a fence to retrieve his ball, he just dropped it and carried on. I was in the following group and we caught them up, and we were told they were both playing a blinder?

I'm not saying that every group of mates don't play to the rules, far from it, but we know it happens. I even heard one member telling a few of us that he had overheard one 3-ball talking about playing preffered lies, and agreeing to 'uncover cabbaged balls'. These were their own little rules before they teed off. I only play the minimum of QC events at my club, just to keep my handicap current. I know it makes my club sound bad, but in thruth its far from it. They just need a stronger pro and comps secretary. Out of 400+ members we're talking about a handful of kids

He said, it could be regarded as testing the surface or something... he said he didn't want me to get pulled up for it in a match play...

You can tap a pitch mark repair down though can't you? So i don't really see the difference... I should really check it out but it no hassel to just pick it up is it?

The important thing is just not put yourself in a position where you might be in danger of transgressing a rule.

If anything I would have thought it was something to do with the rule about touching the line of a putt - but I think that applies to touching it with hands as well as with a club. I don't understand that rule well enough though. Hopefully someone else can explain it

Rossa wrote:In the past year or two i have called 2 penalties on myself for a ball moving on the green, 1 for nudging a ball with my wedge (careless) on the fairway and 1 for not starting and finishing a hole with the same ball (hit pov (totally different brand), found 1st, prov goes in pocket, ball marked on green, wrong ball comes out of pocket and putt is hit, realised wrong ball was played when tapping in) and playing from the wrong tee... and the reaction i get on the first 3 was astonishing, all my playing partners were very, very suprised by it, half said how very honest i was, the other half basically said i should forget it and they'd sign me card anyway as I hadn't gained an advantage. I just explained to them that i would have an advantage if i hadn't called it and some other honest fellow who had done the same thing had.
When cursing my bad fortune/carelessness in the clubhouse after many people have said i was an idiot for admitting it!
In another case a member i played tried to take a drop from some bushes as if they were a water hazard! i.e. i think it came in on this line so i'll drop here... i quickly informed this senior member that he had of his actual options of which on the only realistic one was to replay his shot... he actually played it his way and clarified it afterwards with the comps chairman! So he lost his 1 point on the at hole.
Begged the question, how long has be being getting away with that and how many of his mates do the same thing?

My only confession is that when i played in a comp, i wiped a catkin of the line of my putt with my putter head, after the hole member informed me of the rule, but said he'd let me off, being a newish member i just apologised and played on... It bothered me though and i played terribly... and basically played myself out of the comp... I asked him at the end if he could change my score to account for it before he signed but he said it was pointless as i was coming nowhere anyway so i just let it drop.
But i learnt me lesson and from now on i just call it, add it on and move on...

Well done, Rossa.

Inspirational stuff and helps one to keep faith in human nature.

When I first joined my club, I was playing a Medal and was playing with two supposed rule experts (who incidentally I now wipe the floor with on rules). I was on the 6th tee and I played a provisional ball from the tee and did not expressly declare it was a provisional (I had said after my 1st tee shot that "I'll play another one"). After I played my second tee shot, one of the chaps came over and said "[The other chap] has said that you should have declared it provisional and that you didn't do it on an earlier hole as well". I didn't know what to say. They didn't push for a penalty (probably because I was having a mare), but what really got me is why didn't they say something before I played my first provisional shot on the earlier hole? They knew I was a newbie at competition golf, so why didn't they help me out?

BTW I've also never heard the one about starting and finishing a hole with the same ball. I've probably done the same thing as you did in the past and never given it a second thought. Is that a "standard" rule or is it tied to the one ball rule that seems to only apply to pro tournaments where you must stick to the same ball throughout the round?

You have start and finish a hole with the same ball unless you declare it lost... i don't know the reference but i'm pretty sure its the case, i have probabaly done it inadvertently, when playing the same brand of ball but in this case it was obviously a different brand, so was certain i had done it, i effectively putted out with my provisional ball, just careless really.

I think it's to stop people having a different kind of ball for putting with...

Davie wrote:BTW I've also never heard the one about starting and finishing a hole with the same ball. I've probably done the same thing as you did in the past and never given it a second thought. Is that a "standard" rule or is it tied to the one ball rule that seems to only apply to pro tournaments where you must stick to the same ball throughout the round?

It's Rule 5-3.

You (everyone) should really get the illustrated rules of golf. It makes understanding the 'dry' Rules of Golf easier.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Golf-Rules-Illustrated-2010-R/dp/0600620441#_

Can someone clarify some things that have come up recently with changes to the rules...

Can you now replace you own ball on the green if someone else has marked it for you? I've heard this is the case.

Can you now have the flag tended from off the green? I saw bones tending flag for Phil at Pebble Beach i think, this year when he was hitting from the fairway trying to hole out...

Is it still a penalty if you inadvertanly hit someone elses bag?

Davie wrote:BTW I've also never heard the one about starting and finishing a hole with the same ball. I've probably done the same thing as you did in the past and never given it a second thought. Is that a "standard" rule or is it tied to the one ball rule that seems to only apply to pro tournaments where you must stick to the same ball throughout the round?

Davie, I think you're confusing 2 separate rules there. The pros are obliged to play the same type of ball throughout a round, but can and often do change balls between holes. We all have to finish each hole with the exact same ball we began it with, unless that ball is lost and replaced under penalty. This led to the famous incident where Poulter threw his ball to his caddie to clean after marking it on the green in the 2004 Players. However, the caddy had moved and so the ball ended up in a water hazard. In order to avoid incurring a penalty, Poulter had to send his caddy in after it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19TVn8ltiQM - goto 2 minutes

Rossa wrote:
Can you now have the flag tended from off the green? I saw bones tending flag for Phil at Pebble Beach i think, this year when he was hitting from the fairway trying to hole out...

You can have it tended whilst off the green but it's a penalty if the ball goes into the hole without the caddie having taken the flag out.

Rossa wrote:
Is it still a penalty if you inadvertanly hit someone elses bag?

I didn't know it was ever a penalty. There's no penalty if it's your opponent's bag you hit, but if it's a partner (i.e. on the same team), it would be a penalty.

Cheers Mercurio,

I was playing a interclub match the otherday and my ball hit my opponents mobility scooter thingy before rebounding on my partners bag! There was some talk of loss of hole but i just picked by ball up (as my partner was in decent shape and as you can imagine i wasn't...), the hole was halved and it was not mentioned again... it was a friendly so the the loss of hole banter was was just that i think, but it did get my mind ticking over...

Yes SJ - just sloppy wording on my part. I knew about the single-ball rule in pro competitions and how they can change to another ball OF THE SAME TYPE between holes. It was the other general rule (5-3) that I wasn't aware of the full implications of as described by Merc.

I've just had a good look at 5-3 on the ww.randa.org Rules explorer and understand it now.

Also looked at the other one about touching the line of the putt - doesn't seem like any rule was broken in the description above except as Rossa said that it "could" be construed as testing the surface - but I think that's a little harsh!

As for Rossa's further queries, yes you can replace your own ball if your opponent or partner has marked it. And yes you can have the flag tended from anywhere on the course.

Davie wrote:
Also looked at the other one about touching the line of the putt - doesn't seem like any rule was broken in the description above except as Rossa said that it "could" be construed as testing the surface - but I think that's a little harsh!

That's probably why the chap was reluctant to enforce it, because it was pretty harsh, but saw me as a bit 'green' so thought he'd give me the benefit of his wisdom, makes more sense now.

I guess if you were playing a real bumhole in matchplay he could make a song and dance about it...

I've had 3 occasions that I've been called on rules, and all still wrankle with me. All 3 times were in club knockouts or a QC, and i must be the most unlucky bloke in the world.

1) playing against a 'dodgy' committee member i hit my approach into a ditch 20 yards short of the green. The ball had got itself half wedged into a rabbit hole and a large stone almost covered it, and not wanting to do anything dodgy, I asked him what the ruling was, as I was unsure. he told me I had to play it from where it lay. It was an imposible ask and knew the ball would just go deeper down the hole. I was right and then he told me it was now unplayable so needed to take a drop. Found out later the ball should have been declared unplayable straight away.

2) My 2nd year at the club and back in the club knockout against the president. Hit my approach into a greenside bunker and got it out and close, only to be called for touching the sand on takeaway. I swear i didn't but he's the president and was in danger of being beaten. It was wet sand, no marks and deffinatley no advantage gained even if I had inadvertantly touched the sand.

3) Playing a stableford in poor conditions in a 4-ball. 3 of us had driven to within 12 feet of each other, so as I was a couple of feet in front, hit my 2nd shot last. After holing out a player announced that he had got the wrong ball, and we all checked only for me to find I had he's. Now he hit mine obviously so assumed that the remaining ball was mine and played. But was called and penalised. It made no difference to the bloke that used my ball as he blobbed.

There are times when I believe the rules are total Love sacks and a bit arcane.

Rossa wrote:I was playing a interclub match the otherday and my ball hit my opponents mobility scooter thingy before rebounding on my partners bag! There was some talk of loss of hole but i just picked by ball up (as my partner was in decent shape and as you can imagine i wasn't...), the hole was halved and it was not mentioned again... it was a friendly so the the loss of hole banter was was just that i think, but it did get my mind ticking over...

There's actually a Decision of Golf that covers this - 19-3/3 - note the different rulings for match play and stroke play

Q. A player's ball strikes his opponent's or fellow-competitor's trolley and then strikes his own trolley. What is the ruling?

A. In match play, because the ball first struck his opponent's equipment the player may replay the stroke, without penalty, regardless of what happens thereafter to the ball (Rule 19-3). The player may also play the ball as it lies, but would do so under penalty of one stroke because, after striking his opponent's equipment, his ball struck his own equipment (Rule 19-2).
In stroke play, although the ball first struck a fellow-competitor's equipment, the competitor incurs a penalty of one stroke and must play the ball as it lies (Rules 19-4, 19-1 and 19-2).

The first 2 are harsh...

1) Don't you get relief from burrows and the like?
2) I guess it your word against his - sounds like a Kumquat to me.
3) Is unfortunate but its ultimately your responsibility to check your playing the correct ball - if you had checked after he had played but before you had, then you could have sent the offending player to retrieve your ball

Interesting Merc... i would like to replay that shot, it was a shocker!

The one that caused me the most argument was the old "sprinkler head on line of putt".

I had hit through the green on our 17th and was on the back fringe. Between me and the hole was a sprinkler head.

I wasn't fully aware of the rules at the time but had it explained to me that the sprinkler head was an immovable obstruction and therefore only afforded relief if the ball lay ON it or it affected stance. I was therefore refused relief.

I later looked up this rule and found that he was technically corrrect according to the laws of the game, but that it is quite common for clubs to introduce a local rule which also allows for relief if the sprinkler head is within 2(?) club lengths of the green and the ball is within 2(?) club lengths of the sprinkler head. Sure enough, such a local rule exists at my club so while he was correct about no relief under the laws, I WAS entitled to relief under local rules.

Sadly unaware of this at the time I proceeded with no relief and took a further 4 shots to get down, thanks to a duffed chip and then 3 putts