The Apprentice - FINAL

OLLY - TEAM MESSI:

BAMBAM - TEAM RONALDO:

BamBam wrote:Roberto Carlos vs Javier Zanetti

I considered Carlos, and rejigging my team to fit in an alternative Brazilian player to Ronaldinho. Ultimately, my opinion was that the only Brazilian I would have considered in his place was Ronaldo.

In my view, Zanetti offered greater longevity and had more sustained success as a player over the 2000-2018 time frame we were given. He was captain and key player in the Inter team that defeated arguably the best club team of the period (Barcelona 2010), preventing them from repeating as European champions. He captained Inter to 5 successive Serie A titles over that time period, and certainly goes down as a legend of Italian football, a league where defending has been perfected as an art form. I think Zanetti is a better choice for the museum due to his multi positional play, dominance at his chosen position and longevity/success for close to 8 years after Carlos effectively ended his career moving to Fenerbahce

Firstly on this one, I cannot understand why Bam has chosen a RB in Lahm to be his LB in this best XI of all time. But looking past that, for me Carlos played in some of the best Madrid sides of this time period, he was key cog in a iconic World Cup winning side in 2002, and is rightly lauded as one of the best attacking left backs of all time.

Jaap Stam vs Nemanja Vidic

For me Vidic goes hand in hand with Rio Ferdinand - their names are almost synonymous when discussing centre backs. I completely agree that big reputations count the most for this museum. Has there been a pair of centre backs with as big a reputation as Rio and Vidic? Dominating the Premier League for many seasons, being a part of arguably its best ever team and winning the CL, regularly being named in the team of the year and ultimately being made captain of Man Utd stand out as huge achievements for Vidic.

In my opinion, he is a better choice than Stam again due to longevity and success - Stam took a step backwards moving to Lazio, and his only team success in the period was winning the Premier League in 2001 and the Italian Cup in 2004 with Lazio. Stam was unable to prevent "that" Liverpool team making a comeback in Istanbul, and never reached that heightened level again. I simply think Vidic delivered more success over a longer period of time at a higher profile and level of club, making him a great candidate for the museum.

Well Bam's Man Utd tinted glasses are coming into full effect here , saying Stam took a step backwards in the latter half of his career when Vidic is widely remembered for being bummed by Fernando Torres everytime they played Liverpool and was utterly woeful for Utd in the latter days there. Stam is widely renowned for being a true leader, he was magnificent for a Lazio side who had financial issues, he was great for Holland at Euro 2000 and then was great for a Milan side also.

Pavel Nedved vs Luka Modric

Recency bias is a big factor for Modric here. Nedved was a terrific player, but a large part of his success was pre 2000 with Lazio. In the time period being evaluated, his club honours amounted to two Serie A titles (factoring in the matchfixing scandal) - in a museum, people want to read about the achievements of a player, why is he in the museum? Two Serie A titles doesn't match up to a player who was so crucial for Real Madrid in 3 CL wins. If looking at reputation and profile, particularly in the US, Real certainly and even Spurs may arguably have had better exposure given the leagues they play in.

I mean if we want to talk about achievements of a player, Nedved literally won the Ballon D'or in 2003 which far outweighs anything Modric has done individually in his career. He was instrumental in getting Juve to the CL final in 2003  (and only suspension stopped him bossing the final too), magnificent in getting the Czech's to the Euro 2004 semi final, Nedved was just a great great player for the latter end of his Lazio career in 2000 and 2001, then brilliant in some magnificent Juve sides until 2009.

Claude Makelele vs Zinedine Zidane

This is on paper a difficult one. Makelele defined a position, and Zidane himself lauded him publicly. I just think that any player with the ability, profile and achievements of Zidane is a shoo in for a museum such as this. A 3 time world player of the year obviously has the huge reputation to be worthy of selection, but he was arguably one of the biggest names in sport during his peak years. The biggest moments of his career - 1998 WC final, the volley in the CL final, and even his headbutt in the 2006 WC final are iconic footballing moments, all could be played on a loop in a museum and people would stop to watch. Makelele is an excellent player, but no one pays to watch football to see how well the defensive midfielder is doing, Zidane was box office his entire career, and I am happy with my choice

Not sure why you'd include something from 1998 in a museum about football from 2000-2018   I agree with Bam here, Makelele defined a position. Quite a major thing that. That's why he is in my side.

Luis Suarez vs Zlatan Ibrahimovic

I've got a simple answer to why I think Suarez should not be in any footballing museum - he has been found guilty of racially abusing a fellow player. That sort of person should never be commemorated in a museum. I can look past his biting and the cheating against Ghana as infamy, after all Zidane was my choice despite headbutting Materazzi and Maradona got away with a handball too. I just can't see a world in which I would pick Suarez to be lauded in a museum.

As for pure achievements and ability on the pitch, Suarez has arguably only put together 4 truly excellent seasons (his last two at Liverpool, and the first two at Barcelona). He has not had the success individually or as part of a team that Ibrahimovic has, nor has he sustained his goal scoring and level of play over various leagues, playing for the biggest clubs every where he has been like Zlatan has. I would also say that Suarez has never been the figurehead for any team he has played in - Gerrard and Messi undoubtedly had those roles.

If you're not including people who have done something wrong in their past in a museum, then museum's simply wouldn't exist  

As for Suarez, suggesting he has only put together four excellent seasons is lolz, because his last season at Barca was very good and he was amazing during his time at Ajax also. He was the figurehead for the only Liverpool side to ever get close to winning a premier league (to suggest a geriatric Gerrard was in that season is not cool Bam) and is currently proving to be the best striker in the world at Barca and has been for many years now. On the international stage he had not only those iconic moments Bam mentions, but was named MVP of the Copa America winning Uruguay side in 2011 and was instrumental in Uruguay's world cup campaign of 2010. He's scored some of the best goals in PL history also (don't i know this!)

Ryan Giggs vs Ronaldinho

This is a bit of a reverse compared to the others. I have generally looked at sustained success and longevity - in this case, Giggs undoubtedly would be the choice looking at those two attributes given his trophy collection.

I would argue that Ronaldinho reached a higher peak than Giggs ever did from 2000-2018, and that Giggs arguably peaked as a player in the late 90s - early 00s. Ronaldinho took a Barcelona team not even in the Champions League, and led them to multiple La Liga titles and the Champions League. He won world player of the year twice, and arguably put the club on the platform from which it became the best team in Europe.

As much as I am a fan of Giggs' longevity and trophy haul, I can't overlook the performances that Ronaldinho put in over his time at Barcelona, and think he is definitely one of the iconic players of the last 18 years.

Ronaldinho would be in consideration for an all time team - as much as I like Giggs, I can't see that he would be seen at a similar level

I have to admit this is a tough one because I love Ronaldinho and would probably say he is a better pure player than Giggs, but I had to put Giggs in my side for as Bam says his longevity at the highest level of the game for one of the biggest sides in England, and for also his achievements personally and team wise.

Brooksey79 wrote:boooo wrong choice

Marky wrote:Have to agree, although very hard to choose between the two deserving finalists, I think Trebs has made a bad call.

Ignoring Makelele because he's not a flashy attacker like Zidane is nonsensical in my opinion, and I feel that was a big part of the decision.

Hero wrote:I think Trebs got it spot on personally.