BBC Wales out of running to show Pro 14 next season

First topic message reminder :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-43302261

Live coverage of club rugby will not be shown on BBC Two Wales next season after the BBC failed to reach a deal to continue broadcasting the Pro 14 tournament.

Competition organisers are understood to have awarded the UK rights to a pay-TV service, but BBC Wales had hoped to continue broadcasting games in Wales.

It means viewers will no longer be able to watch club games on free-to-air television in English. Negotiations over Welsh language rights are ongoing.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

profitius wrote:With TG4 getting the secondary Irish rights, doesn't that raise the possibility that the British rights will be on free to air TV. Maybe not BBC but it could be itv or some other channel.

I had a similar thought.  We are all upset that the Beeb have said they are out, but what if ITV are looking to add live rugby to their porfolio, or Channel 5 maybe?  ITV have the regional channels the same as BBC so it is possible they could do it like that, or throw it on ITV 4 and replace the old You've Been Framed repeats for something else.

Also from a Welsh point of view, the Beeb have a slot open on Friday and Sunday night, that was for rugby.  They could well focus on showing the welsh prem, or maybe even these new Regional Under-23 sides, keeping their toes in the rugby world, ready for if/when Premier Sport fold (like Sentanta did when they dipped their toes into the English football).

Lets watch this space and see what's what.

Monkey Tennis? On ice?
Gravy Train journeys of the world?
Sh!t in the shed?

All three sound better than the stuff that really gets shown. You should have a go at getting those commissioned Dave.

Dai, Monkey Tennis On Ice is ITV, BBC is Strictly Monkey Tennis.

And BBC4 have Horizon: How Monkeys Balance on Ice when they Can't Even Stand on their Own Two Feet

SecretFly wrote:Yeah, but the free live sport will probably be the camel racing from Dubai.  Not knocking it...but it's strictly not rugby that stuff

Sevens rugby is very much a part of rugby

To tell you the truth, I don't have a clue what Premier Sport shows either on their free-to-air or their subscription services.

Don't mind me, Marty, as you can see, I'm only messing about now in the lead in to the big weekend. All techno talk is now almost over for me for this season and I'll be soon closing down my presence on 606 until after the summer.

SecretFly wrote:To tell you the truth, I don't have a clue what Premier Sport shows either on their free-to-air or their subscription services.

Don't mind me, Marty, as you can see, I'm only messing about now in the lead in to the big weekend.  All techno talk is now almost over for me for this season and I'll be soon closing down my presence on 606 until after the summer.

Booooo!

In UK
If you have a BT broadband subscription, you get BT Sport for free (currently). If you don't then you have to pay for BT Sport, as an add-on to your Sky or Virgin, etc platform. PremierSports can also be an add-on to your Sky/Virgin service for €10 a month with no rolling contract i.e. you can pay for Sept-May if you want. Or you can pay £10 a month for PremierPay, an online service with an app, if you don't have Sky/Virgin.

In Ireland, if you have an Eir broadband subscription, you get EirSport and BT Sport for free. (BT service licence for Eirsport runs until end of this year.) If you don't have eir broadband, then you have to pay €27.50 on top of your Sky Subscription to watch EirSport and BT package.

In short, based on current prices only (which are likely to change)
In GB - you have to pay £10 for 9 months to watch PRO14 only.
In Irl - you have to pay €27.50 for 2 months minimum to watch PRO14 and BT Sport.

EirSport and BT Sport is free with Eir broadband (Bear in mind that BT Sport current Ireland rights license that Eir inherited when they bought and renamed Setanta Sports runs until end of 2018).

BTSport is free with BT broadband (for first six months only I just discovered and there’s too many options after that to go into!) Otherwise, if you don’t have BT broadband, you have to pay to add it on to your digital box e.g. Sky or Virgin. Looking at BT Sports website, they offer a minimum 12 month contract for an average of £28.14 per month plus a £20 activation fee. (£357.68 annual) versus EirSport/BTSport (€245 annual or 27.50 monthly minimum 2 months commitment).

On the face of it, PRO14 on its own costs less in UK. Based on current packages, in Ireland you could only access PRO14 on EirSport with buying BT as well. However, if you want to watch PRO14 and European matches, then based on current pricing, it would be cheaper in Ireland.

BUT, BUT, BUT....... before everyone goes rushing in saying I told you so.....

There are still too many variables - known unknowns. It’s not known how many matches have been won under each bid. EirSport may have the primary rights for ROI home matches, and may also have a separate deal to re-broadcast matches provided by another broadcaster featuring Irish team away matches. The same would apply to Premier Sports or any other broadcaster that may be involved in the bidding process. Obviously, the more matches you get as a broadcaster, the more you pay. This will have a bearing on the market access price for the customer.

It’s not clear if only the four participating TV territories were put out to tender as four individual lots or that could be bid on collectively. Or if other territories, e.g. England, US, Canada, Asia, were up for bidding on as a separate lot for secondary rights that a broadcaster such as Eir or Premier Sports could sell into.

Eir also have a transmission license for NI but it’s not known if they bid successfully for that territory. It’s reported that Eir is going to make its broadcasting content more Irish, so it would make sense if they are focusing on the four provinces.

Finally, you have to bear in mind that we’re working off current prices based on current packages based on current license rights. All of those could change for next season. For example, I would doubt very much that BTSport - now that they have a monopoly on European games - will sell their Irish license rights to EirSport for the same amount of money at end of 2018. So EirSport’s current package may not last or they will have to hike their customer prices considerably.

PS - if I’ve bored everyone to tears, apologies. During a previous career, I used to sell TV programmes to other broadcasters. It’s complex and full of fiddly details that used to drive me nuts in pouring through contracts. BBC have good documents on their website that explain primary and secondary broadcasting rights if anyone is interested (unlikely I know).

EirSport have a license rights deal to show BT Sport as part of their subscription package.

It’s quite possible that PremierSports could do a deal with BT to be part of their BT Sports package for 2018/19 season.

Or be part of the Sky subscription packages. Sky and BT have done a deal to show each other’s content.

Alternatively, it’s a monthly subscription so you can pay to watch PremierSports for 9 months, then cancel and start again in Sept.

If the various deals add another £8-10m on top of what they were getting, then the monies are split between the three Celtic union shareholders who own the PRO14 Championship. That would be an extra £1m per club each season plus the SA additional TV money of reported £6m for splitting amongst the original PRO12 clubs. Italian TV deal monies go directly to the FIR.

Well here’s some possible TX combinations for next season assuming they also give some games to language FTA channels in UK.  This is what BBC have said they want to do after their initial 3-region bid for primary rights was not successful.  PRO14 will do a deal with BBC directly, if they have only given primary rights to Premier Sports.  If Premier Sports have paid for exclusive rights (more money than just primary because it gives them rights on more matches) then it is they who would negotiate with BBC/S4C to either re-transmit some matches e.g. Irish home matches against Welsh or Scottish sides OR to produce and televise some of the home Welsh or Scottish matches e.g. Edinburgh v Connacht or Dragons v Treviso.  Premier Sports will likely want to keep the primary rights for some of the GB derby weekends and split some with others.

Round 1 -
Friday Ulster v Scarlets EirSport/S4C
Sat 5pm Cardiff v Munster, PRemSport/TG4, Zebre v Glasgow, Eurosport, Leinster v Ospreys, EirSport, Cheetahs v Connacht, SuperSport;
7pm Edinburgh v Benetton, BBC Alba, Kings v Dragons, SuperSport.

Round 4 - Big Weekend 1
Fri Ulster v Connacht EirSport/TG4
Sat Leinster v Munster EirSport; Cardiff v Ospreys, PremSport; Glasgow v Benetton, BBC Alba,
7pm Zebre v Edinburgh, Eurosport; Dragons v Scarlets PremSport/S4C

There is good news being reported by The Telegraph this morning with the report that Champions Cup fixtures will be shown free-to-air next season.

BT Sport secured the rights to show the competition from next season until 2022 but there is flexibility from tournament organisers to allow free-to-air broadcasters to show games as part of that deal. Sky Sports who currently show games alongside BT Sport, will no longer show games after this season.

It is being reported that Irish broadcaster, TV3, and UK broadcaster Channel 4, will broadcast at least one match during each of the six pool stages and this may also include some of the knock-out stages.

Europe’s top club rugby competition has not been shown on terrestrial television since 2003 when BBC used to show games of the old Heineken Cup. Tournament organisers are keen to boost the profile of the competition which is why they want games to be shown on terrestrial television from next season onwards.

This will come as a boost to supporters who are increasingly coming under pressure financially to pay for various pay-per-view channels to watch rugby.

We have already seen the decision from the PRO14 not to award rights to the BBC Wales and BBC Northern Ireland and instead, sell rights to pay-per-view channels, Eir Sport and Premier Sports.

In addition to BT showing the majority of games next season in the Champions Cup, they also have secured the Aviva Premiership rights until 2021.

Cue some people saying 3 is better than 4 so the Irish are getting it better than us

Which only confirms what I have felt for some time.

Why bother with Sky as your TV provider if you are a dyed in the wall rugby fan - what do they offer in the NH.
A handful of England and Ireland internationals which you can get on Sky Now for a few quid on the day and
the most boring dirge that is Top14 rugby.

At £33 a month what a waste of money

Fair enough if you like soccer but be clear it is not rugby that is costing you a fortune it is soccer

For me though, it is more about exposure. We all know everybody buy SKY for the football, if the Pro14 is on SKY, potentially millions of people are instantly made aware of the Pro14 because SKY are plastering it on their channels.

I am finding it very hard to believe that people will be queuing up to buy Premier sports just for the Pro14, I just cannot see it. I think by giving the rights to EIR/Premier sports, the Pro14 have done more damage than good. Yes there will be more money initially, but in the long run, I think it is a bollock drop.

People look at value for money above all else - when they see they can get more decent rugby for £10 a month than for £33 a month they will make the change.
Sky are gradually losing out in their rugby coverage - the money will drop and indeed is dropping.
I know some soccer supporters who content themselves with the non Sky pay games due to the sky rates.

EIR/Premier will become much better known because of this - it is a very dynamic market and perceptions change.
There was a time when people said BT sport - never heard of it.
Indeed there was a time when Sky were unknown, they had to buy out the squarial as they feared the competition.
Long forgotten but illustrates this is a dynamic and changing market - nothing stands still.

LordDowlais wrote:For me though, it is more about exposure. We all know everybody buy SKY for the football, if the Pro14 is on SKY, potentially millions of people are instantly made aware of the Pro14 because SKY are plastering it on their channels.

I am finding it very hard to believe that people will be queuing up to buy Premier sports just for the Pro14, I just cannot see it. I think by giving the rights to EIR/Premier sports, the Pro14 have done more damage than good. Yes there will be more money initially, but in the long run, I think it is a bollock drop.

I don't have Sky but I presume by the overview I have of the platform that football is kind of at saturation level on the thing?

- I'm not so certain it's a bonus to be a time filler sport (rugby) on a platform that most people seem to subscribe to purely for the Football.  I mean, it seems there is always a football centric show on the thing, even if there are no live games.  Football people will have more than enough football interest shows, discussion, what-have-you to keep them from dabbling at any serious level in that other sport called rugby union.

Is it not better that rugby is better on a platform that might make it centre stage?  At least the people subscribing would be doing so because they want to watch rugby, not because it just happens to be lurking there somewhere in amongst their precious footbally stuff?

What I like is the simplicity of choice for next season. Just switch your telly on, stick the wire hanger in the back and then just go to:

TV3 - Six Nations and some European matches
EirSport - PRO14 and RWC 19
TG4 - PRO14 matches
RTE - Ireland U20s and Women's matches
BT Sport - European matches
Premier Sports - non-Irish home PRO14 matches
Eurosport - Italian PRO14 home matches
Channel 4 - Some European matches
BBC - Six Nations matches
ITV - Six Nations matches
S4C - some Welsh PRO14 matches
BBC Alba - some Scottish PRO14 matches

Simple really, don't know what the fuss is about.

Pot Hale wrote:What I like is the simplicity of choice for next season.  Just switch your telly on, stick the wire hanger in the back and then just go to:

TV3 - Six Nations and some European matches
EirSport - PRO14 and RWC 19
TG4 - PRO14 matches
RTE - Ireland U20s and Women's matches
BT Sport - European matches
Premier Sports - non-Irish home PRO14 matches
Eurosport - Italian PRO14 home matches
Channel 4 - Some European matches
BBC - Six Nations matches
ITV - Six Nations matches
S4C - some Welsh PRO14 matches
BBC Alba - some Scottish PRO14 matches

Simple really, don't know what the fuss is about.

Except I think you not grasped how the rights for the different regions work

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:What I like is the simplicity of choice for next season.  Just switch your telly on, stick the wire hanger in the back and then just go to:

TV3 - Six Nations and some European matches
EirSport - PRO14 and RWC 19
TG4 - PRO14 matches
RTE - Ireland U20s and Women's matches
BT Sport - European matches
Premier Sports - non-Irish home PRO14 matches
Eurosport - Italian PRO14 home matches
Channel 4 - Some European matches
BBC - Six Nations matches
ITV - Six Nations matches
S4C - some Welsh PRO14 matches
BBC Alba - some Scottish PRO14 matches

Simple really, don't know what the fuss is about.

Except I think you not grasped how the rights for the different regions work

I'm not sure you've grasped Pot's sarcasm!

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:What I like is the simplicity of choice for next season.  Just switch your telly on, stick the wire hanger in the back and then just go to:

TV3 - Six Nations and some European matches
EirSport - PRO14 and RWC 19
TG4 - PRO14 matches
RTE - Ireland U20s and Women's matches
BT Sport - European matches
Premier Sports - non-Irish home PRO14 matches
Eurosport - Italian PRO14 home matches
Channel 4 - Some European matches
BBC - Six Nations matches
ITV - Six Nations matches
S4C - some Welsh PRO14 matches
BBC Alba - some Scottish PRO14 matches

Simple really, don't know what the fuss is about.

Except I think you not grasped how the rights for the different regions work

I'm not sure you've grasped Pot's sarcasm!

Possibly but given there are a few who have got it wrong, it's hard to tell on here

So using Pots list - all every contributor now has to do is outline which he has and if he's satisfied.

I got:
TV3 (non bloody HD which is a laugh in this day and age on Terrestrial - but it'll do)
I got Eirsport but genuinely have never ever watched it.
I got TG4 - as I say, the lovely girl with the big cozy hats in the middle of winter.  It would have been a crime if TG4 lost all games.
I got RTE
I got Channel 4
I got BBC
I got ITV
I got S4C - I think - but never watch it
I got BBC Alba - but again, never watch it.

That's not bad, and that'll do me for now.  Life's too busy to be watching too much sport.  There's a world outside your window (philosophy bit)

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:What I like is the simplicity of choice for next season.  Just switch your telly on, stick the wire hanger in the back and then just go to:

TV3 - Six Nations and some European matches
EirSport - PRO14 and RWC 19
TG4 - PRO14 matches
RTE - Ireland U20s and Women's matches
BT Sport - European matches
Premier Sports - non-Irish home PRO14 matches
Eurosport - Italian PRO14 home matches
Channel 4 - Some European matches
BBC - Six Nations matches
ITV - Six Nations matches
S4C - some Welsh PRO14 matches
BBC Alba - some Scottish PRO14 matches

Simple really, don't know what the fuss is about.

Except I think you not grasped how the rights for the different regions work

I'm not sure you've grasped Pot's sarcasm!

Possibly but given there are a few who have got it wrong, it's hard to tell on here

I was being mischievous. You may not have seen them, Marty, but I explained previously in a few other posts how the territory rights work as I used to produce and sell TV programmes to various markets and have worked in the video/TV business on and off over last 30 years.

You probably did Pot, apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I'd said, a few of the eternally perplexed on here were already ranting about it without a clue what they were talking about

marty2086 wrote:You probably did Pot, apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I'd said, a few of the eternally perplexed on here were already ranting about it without a clue what they were talking about

All good.

marty2086 wrote:You probably did Pot, apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I'd said, a few of the eternally perplexed on here were already ranting about it without a clue what they were talking about

Didn't you just have a pretty public whoosh moment?

Stone Motif wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You probably did Pot, apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I'd said, a few of the eternally perplexed on here were already ranting about it without a clue what they were talking about

Didn't you just have a pretty public whoosh moment?

What?

marty2086 wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

marty2086 wrote:You probably did Pot, apologies for the misunderstanding. Like I'd said, a few of the eternally perplexed on here were already ranting about it without a clue what they were talking about

Didn't you just have a pretty public whoosh moment?

What?

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/04/30/premier-sports-freesports-to-broadcast-every-guinness-pro14-game-from-2018-19/

Every game available on the subscription channel, and at least 1 game on free to air channel FreeSports in every round

Not bad at all

Sounds good.

-Every game shown.
-The pro14 will be their main sport
-All matches in HD
-More analysis of matches etc.
-Another channel being launched (premiership sport 2)
-Still negotiating with a local language station in the UK.
-Rep Ireland to be announced.

That does sound good.

Great that every game will be shown, be interesting to see how that works with schedules

Sounds like a god deal. Big increase in ££ apparently, which is great.

Premier sports isn't likely to get exposure to the league but you can't have everything.

marty2086 wrote:Great that every game will be shown, be interesting to see how that works with schedules

Every game will be shown, but not live as that would be impossible I suppose.  So I guess they'll show the games throughout the week?

Edit: sorry I've just read the link again and it does say 'Live'. Interesting. I guess they'll have some sort of red button thing going on to choose which game to watch as they can't all be scheduled at different times.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Great that every game will be shown, be interesting to see how that works with schedules

Every game will be shown, but not live as that would be impossible I suppose.  So I guess they'll show the games throughout the week?

Edit: sorry I've just read the link again and it does say 'Live'.  Interesting.  I guess they'll have some sort of red button thing going on to choose which game to watch as they can't all be scheduled at different times.

They are going to be showing the games on two channels PS1 and PS2, with one game on free TV. So two games on Friday night and the rest on Saturday. So probably an early afternoon ko a late afternoon ko and an eveining ko.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Great that every game will be shown, be interesting to see how that works with schedules

Every game will be shown, but not live as that would be impossible I suppose.  So I guess they'll show the games throughout the week?

Edit: sorry I've just read the link again and it does say 'Live'.  Interesting.  I guess they'll have some sort of red button thing going on to choose which game to watch as they can't all be scheduled at different times.

7 games across 3 channels over a weekend is pretty easy to broadcast

One/Two games on a Friday night, 3 or 4 on a Saturday at 2/3, then 4/5, followed by another at 6.30/7 then another one or two on a Sunday

This is misleading:

"Q: How do I access Premier Sports & FreeSports?
A: Premier Sports is a High Definition subscription service available to 16 million UK homes and on the Sky and Virgin Media platforms and available to everyone on all devices via the Premier Player.
"

There is no Premier Sport HD on Virgin Media.

It's on their website.

Apparently VM will be picking up the HD channels from this summer, according to the SRU information put out today

BigGee wrote:Apparently VM will be picking up the HD channels from this summer, according to the SRU information put out today

Nope. That's only Freesports.

The Q&A is interesting - https://www.pro14rugby.org/2018/04/30/broadcastqa/

Pro14 wrote:Q: Why have you chosen Premier Sports?
A: Premier Sports are putting rugby at the forefront of their sports portfolio through HD production of games, expert analysis and weekly magazine shows. All significant global rugby properties have moved to subscription broadcasters and it is a mark of the value of the Guinness PRO14 that Premier Sports and the Irish broadcaster, among others, tendered so competitively for the rights.

We have also secured a significant portion of Free-to-Air programming in the UK with FreeSports. A deal is currently under discussion for FTA coverage with native language stations across the UK.

Q: Where will PRO14 sit within Premier Sports’ catalogue of broadcast rights?
A: Guinness PRO14 represents a major rights acquisition for Premier Sports and will be treated as the channel’s No 1 property. It has shown French Rugby Union internationals, the Rugby League World Cup, Ice Hockey, Motorsports, Cricket, Champions League and Europa League qualifiers.

That pretty much covers off most of the concerns of everyone on here after the BBC news was announced doesn't it? Hopefully the doom mongers on here and on social media will be slightly happier