Golfing Heroes and Villians

As per point number 10 of Houston Ballwasher notes , below are my current* golfing Heroes and Villains.

* These change all the time, well the villains anyway, and no doubt by Sunday, something or someone will be making my top 5.

*************************

All the talk about Poulter and Kisner, got me thinking about my current top 5 golfing heroes and villains in true panto sense.

Heroes

Tiger Woods - without doubt played the most amazing golf witnessed to date.
John Daly - love a rebel, so much talent.
Justin Rose - everything I see on course and twitter, operates as a gentleman.
Matt Kuchar - just seems to enjoy golf for what it is.
Seve - watched him at St Mellion in 1995, all over the shop on front 9, shoots 40, back 9, shoots 30. Typical Seve.


Villains

Ian Poulter - will do well to remember all the people you pass on the way to the 'top', you pass again on the way down. Absolutely no class whatsoever.
Johnny Miller - perhaps once in while recognise that golf is a global game, and the odd 'international' is quite good too.
Kevin Kisner - Chewing tobacco and spitting, enough said.
Masters Committee - Just allow full live TV coverage on all 4 days and grown the game. Pathetic.
Patrick Read - Panto villain in every sense.

Honorable mentions to Jason Day, JB Holmes and Webb Simpson for being so slow.

**************

As you can imagine watching Poulter and listening to Miller last night was pretty painful! However fair play to Poulter he got the job done and the upside he wont be doing comms for Sky - well not for rounds 1 and 2.

Where do I begin?

Thanks to Snap Hook for starting this - I intended to do the same a couple of days ago but real life got in the way

I don't really do "heroes" though I'd say it would have to be the likes of Faldo, Seve and in more recent years Luke and Spieth .. but they are in the true spirit of the "panto" heroes and villains

In the same respect, I could name plenty "panto" viliains - which doesn't mean I don't like them - well not all - just villains in the true panto style - Tiger, Poults, Fat Pat, Bubba etc. I actually like Poults and FatPat but they definitely fit the panto villain bill

Hmm. Tough one.

Heroes

Nicklaus - the Man. The player I most wanted to copy as a junior.
Trevino - who wouldn't want to play a round with this guy? Fun, but brilliant and seriously competitive at the same time.
Seve - ridiculous player in his prime and at the heart of the European Ryder Cup revival. Hit some of the most amazing shots I've ever seen.
Woods - surprised? His golf through 2005 was absurd, whatever the hoopla that surrounded him.
Jacklin - Lytham, Hazeltine and the Ryder Cup.

Villains

Daly - talented, flawed and now just a caricature of himself. Supports Trump overtly.
Mickleson - always something fake about him and after his treatment of Watson, I wouldn't p*** on him if he was on fire.
Woods - disappeared up his own derriere and thought he was untouchable. The sh*gging, PR and false apologies .
Faldo - sorry, could never warm to him or his gauche/fake media persona. Hated what he did to Graham Marsh at the old World Matchplay as well. Gilford at the Ryder Cup. Etc.
Montgomerie - need I say more?
(Honourable mention: Gary Player - shut up!)

Heroes

Tiger (As Snap said above he played the most amazing and entertaining golf I have ever seen. Simply the best player ever. As I have said before he is the reason why I played the game so much as a kid and why I bothered to watch live golf.  I don't think those born before 1980'ish understand what the Tiger effect actually was and what it was like to experience it.)

Rory (When on form he hits the driver like we all dream of doing.  Like Tiger there is something very entertaining when Rory plays to his potential)

Justin Rose (Possibly slightly underrated by most.  Can't quite put my finger on it but I usually find myself rooting for him)




Villians

Gary Player (just a total bumhole)

Pea Brain (that comment, need I go on?)

Gerry Watson (Our worldviews are just too far apart)

Harrington (Just can't warm to his self promoting demeanour)

Navy

I am surprised in some ways to see Woods on your list of heroes but in other ways it isn't all that surprising. Whether you warmed to his character or not I assume it was fun to watch someone redefine how good someone could be at golf, while providing some all time memorable sporting moments.

And thank you for mentioning Player, how could I forget just how unlikable he is. My post will be duly edited.

McLaren wrote:
And thank you for mentioning Player, how could I forget just how unlikable he is.  My post will be duly edited.

The villain is always dressed in black.

Langer is a villian - my first real golf memory is him missing the putt in the ryder cup at Kiawah Island.

Tiger is a hero, how many golfers bang porn stars?
Rory is a hero. Just comes across really well.
Nick Dougherty who is very good on sky.
Barnrat is the antipathy of a modern golfer, big lad, smokes and just seems to go along with it.
Pepperell - best on social media

Poulter I just cant take to, he's a villain then.
Mark Roe he is bloody awful on commentary.

Then we have a lot of meh golfer but sone ive probably missed out on both lists.

Heroes, (not that I believe in them, but in sheer loose terms)

Seve, like Mac did with 9C, Seve probably was the one who raised my interest in TV golf in the first place, not to mention sheer imagination and shot making.

Rose, didn't like him to begin with, warmed to him as he's a gentleman, sporting, gracious and an all round good egg. Great swing.

Luke Donald, could watch that swing all day and a good inspiration for the more lightweight that you don't need to be 6'4 to get the top of the game.

Stenson: Best golf I've ever seen during Troon match v Mickelson.



Villains.
9C, need I say more, petulant, no personality, wooden, inarticulate, no humour, bad loser, looks like he hates the game unless he's winning, stupid superstitious nonsense, mad axeman swing and zero course management.

Gerald Watson, ignoramus, low IQ, blubbering oaf. Liar. Never at fault for any of his mistakes. Unpleasant and voted the biggest arse on tour.

Shane Lowry: What a waste of talent. Has an incredible game, let down by having no brain and a stomach so large that it's made him lazy and incapable of competing in certain environs. Wasted all his talent because he's a greedy glutton gannet and can't be bothered to work to be the best he can. Perfect example how not to be a professional sportsman. Promising start to career, journeyman from now on in. Loser.

Any golfer who believes in god and mentions it in a speech.

Any player in the "Golf Boyz". Never funny.

When I was a young teenager and really getting into golf, both playing and watching, my two golfing heroes were Sandy Lyle because he was (kinda) Scottish and Seve because he was Seve.

This meant that my golfing villain was Nick Faldo as he was really good and often pipped either Seve or Sandy to titles but even when Faldo was battling with other golfers I would tend to side with the other.

Then I grew up and learned more about the sport and the individuals - including Nick's long term friendship with Seve - plus listened to him commentate many times and he has now become a bit of hero, funny how things can flip.

Of the current crop my favourites are Rory, Phil, Sergio, Martin Kaymer, and Lee Westwood. I don't really have any rhyme or reason as to why.

Nor do I have any golfing villains any more. If any golfer plays stunning golf I'll cheer them onto victory. I just really enjoying watching golf in general these days.

Heroes
Westy - arrgh, no majors but still the sentimental hero
Phil - fake or not, he’s a legend
Poulter - just a legend
MAJ - he doesn’t give a sh!t, unless it’s about cigars and Rioja
Seve - for being Seve
Stenson – just cool
Sergio – for being the comeback kid
Sub: Rose - all around good guy. Kaymer as well
On the bubble: Tiger – impressive to come back after all of his struggles
Amateur: Willetts brother – for speaking the truth
Caddie: Fanny – for putting up with Faldo

Villains
DL3 - can’t stand the sour rubber face, probably because it’s stuck up his own behind
Bubba – a self centered classic panto villain and a whiner I wouldn’t stand up for in a parking lot fight either. (but I like his game)
Singh – he basically committed character assassination on himself after antlergate
Johnny Miller - never experienced him as a player, but comes across as a real d!ickhead on TV
Allenby - just miserable
Sub: Justin Leonard - Brookline 1999 still hurts
On the “bubble”: Keegan Bradley – The Gobbernator. Need I say more?
Amateur: Bill Murray – stfu
Caddie: Steve Williams – stfu

Honourable mention: John Daly – beyond categorization

McLaren wrote:Navy

I am surprised in some ways to see Woods on your list of heroes but in other ways it isn't all that surprising.  Whether you warmed to his character or not I assume it was fun to watch someone redefine how good someone could be at golf, while providing some all time memorable sporting moments.

And thank you for mentioning Player, how could I forget just how unlikable he is.  My post will be duly edited.

2005 and earlier, I think he was pretty unreal and the nonsense around him hadn't reached its nauseating peak. His 'Tiger Slam', or whatever it's called, was seriously impressive and he he hit some crazy good shots under pressure. I'm not sure I'd say he 're-defined' how good the game can be, as he didn't really do anything others hadn't done before. What he did do though, was have a daft period of sustained brilliance, which I'm not sure is likely to be equalled - never say never though.
After '05, I think he disappeared up his own arse, the media sucked up to his every word, Steve Williams thought he was a superstar (which didn't help) and his demeanour stank.
He seems somewhat of a changed man now, I'm almost () interested in hoping he's able to compete again. The daft hoopla's already started though, which makes me want to spit nails, but I guess that's not Woods' doing.

pedro wrote:Heroes
Westy - arrgh, no majors but still the sentimental hero
Phil - fake or not, he’s a legend
Poulter - just a legend
MAJ - he doesn’t give a sh!t, unless it’s about cigars and Rioja
Seve - for being Seve
Stenson – just cool
Sergio – for being the comeback kid
Sub: Rose - all around good guy. Kaymer as well
On the bubble: Tiger – impressive to come back after all of his struggles
Amateur: Willetts brother – for speaking the truth
Caddie: Fanny – for putting up with Faldo

Villains
DL3 - can’t stand the sour rubber face, probably because it’s stuck up his own behind
Bubba – a self centered classic panto villain and a whiner I wouldn’t stand up for in a parking lot fight either. (but I like his game)
Singh – he basically committed character assassination on himself after antlergate
Johnny Miller - never experienced him as a player, but comes across as a real d!ickhead on TV
Allenby - just miserable
Sub: Justin Leonard - Brookline 1999 still hurts
On the “bubble”: Keegan Bradley – The Gobbernator. Need I say more?
Amateur: Bill Murray – stfu
Caddie: Steve Williams – stfu

Honourable mention: John Daly – beyond categorization

Very good. Forgot MAJ - almost has to be a 'hero' for the reasons you mention. The Sunesson nod is great as well.

Heroes:

Tiger - for his brilliant course management, for the incredible control he has on his ball flight, his ability to bounce back (from a bad shot, a bad hole, injury, life), for being bold enough to take on the high risk shots that we all love to watch, for his gracious personality, and his warm smile.

Seve - the passion, the vision, the charisma, the style.

Fred Couples - for doing his own thing his own way and not giving a toss.

Justin Rose - just an all round gentleman, gracious, articulate and an elegant swing.

Rickie Fowler - for his putting, his compassion, sportsmanship and wearing orange trousers. An all round gentleman - the US answer to Justin Rose.

Mel Reid - for the way she engaged with the crowd (including my daughter) at the European Masters.

Rory – for the aesthetic beauty of his golf swing, and for telling it like it is despite constant media harassment.

Sky Sports – for taking golf coverage to a new level, hugely increasing the insight and viewing pleasure, and bringing us Dougherty, Radar Riley and Rich Beem.

Villains:

Bubba – the whining, the blubbing, the assertion he’s never had a lesson. Love his shot making though, great to watch.

Kevin Na - just arrogant, disrespectful to his fellow pro's and everyone enduring him play.

Cantlay, JB Holmes – see Na. They probably spit too

Tyrell Hatton – the whining, the childish fits of pique, the weak attempts to emulate Poulter on social media, the silly American name (that last bit’s a joke)

Steve Williams – for forgetting his place, projecting all the hype and the glory on to himself, and then his petty bitter resentment when he lost it all.

Sky Sports – for inflicting Roe, McGinley and Montgomerie on us. Again and again and again. Not to mention reality “celebs” from Geordie shore etc at the British Masters.

Heroes
Padraig Harrington - my sporting hero and Ireland’s ever greatest sportsman
Tiger - a sporting icon, at his peak arguably the most dominant athlete
Thomas Pieters
DJ
Jason Dufner

Honorable mentions
Jordan Spieth and Alex Noren

Villains
Garcia - a sore loser who blamed everyone else for his losses
Mcilroyyy just cause
Justin Rose and Adam Scott because there playing style bores me
Mark Roe because he is just a dreadful commentator

sirbenson wrote:Heroes
Padraig Harrington - my sporting hero and Ireland’s ever greatest sportsman

Villains
Mark Roe because he is just a dreadful commentator

I've never really thought of that before, so thanks for an interesting perspective. I suppose Harrington has a claim, you could equate 3 majors to 3 winner's medals at world championship level, but it is tough to compare team and individual sports. Off the top of my head I would have thought of O'Driscoll, Roy Keane and even Robbie Keane as "great" national sportsmen.

Mark Roe - does anyone think he is a good commentator? Just don't understand how he got the job to begin with.

Ray - I don't mind McGinley but other than that you are spot on with your Sky Sports analysis.

Monty however was dropped a while back and Roe (thankfully) doesn't get the big gigs

So far 10 of us have listed our heroes and villians and the Tiger tally is;

Hero 6

Villian 2 (super and Davie)


Not what I expected to see. Really thought Tiger would be overwhelmingly seen as a villain on here.

beninho wrote:Langer is a villian - my first real golf memory is him missing the putt in the ryder cup at Kiawah Island.

He's also a villain for the way he anchors his putter, cheating in plain sight.

As you brought up porn stars, John Terry is a villain and a villan. So's his mum.

Thanks snap

Heroes:
Tony Jacklin
Seve
Calcavecchia - fastest, most aggressive player I've ever followed
1987 Ryder Cup winners
1995 Ryder Cup winners
Honourable mention - MAJ: Shame on moi for forgetting him first time round.

Villains:
Kevin Na
Peter Dawson - because he comes across as such a stuck up disingenuous prat
The Head Hootie du jour, whoever he is or has been - tho' they do manage to put on a wonderful tournament despite themselves
Tim Finchem - brilliant businessman, but I can't abide him
Drumpf - ruined Doral's Blue Monster and lost the tournament. There's a metaphor there, but I'd better not go there.
Honorable mention - Ryder Cup winners at Brookline; as for drumpf, there's a metaphor in there somewhere.

McLaren wrote:So far 10 of us have listed our heroes and villians and the Tiger tally is;

Hero 6

Villian 2 (super and Davie)


Not what I expected to see.  Really thought Tiger would be overwhelmingly seen as a villain on here.

Get it right. I had him as both.

On the bubble for me. Jury still out.

Heroes
Sandy - The Masters. Now that was showing guts.
Faldo - Quirky but that rarety, a Brit who was a great in his sport. Loved what he did to Norman.
Woods - X factor, oozes charisma on course. Never seen anyone play like him. One of the top 5 sportsman I've seen.
Phil and Ernie - Both legends despite being in Tigers shadow.
Luke - Maybe won't see a little hitter do what he did again.
Rosey - Nice guy, good player
Howeller - Just seems like a top bloke

Villains
Poultry - hype machine and a dick
Monty - fat, moany, bottle job dick
Garcia - petulant, sulky dick
Adam Scott - ruined all the good of being a nice guy and a having a brilliant swing by using a long putter
Everyone else who consistently used a long putter
Whoever thought matchplay was worthy of WGC status
Allis - somebody shoot him, any charm long since evaporated into senility
Langer- bible bashing, long putter wielding dick

Good ones. Maybe you should change your alias to Dickers?

I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time I'd been referred to in that ilk Pedro.

Diggers wrote:Heroes
Sandy - The Masters. Now that was showing guts.

I must have missed the bit where he pulled a child out of a burning building.

Indeed, hence the lack of additional superlatives. Sandy must of recognised that as well as he only did a little jig and skipped the chest pump, even though he'd won a tournament that people actually give a toss about.
I guess you couldn't get more polar opposites than Poults and Lyle. One a leg end, one a bell end.

He was sweating like he was in a Turkish prison though, so he probably thought it was a pretty big deal.

I don't see Lyle as a legend, rather someone not too bright who had a short purple patch. I don't consider Kaymer or Daly a legend for two majors. If Lyle wasn't British, would we call him a legend? Doubt it.

raycastleunited wrote:

beninho wrote:Langer is a villian - my first real golf memory is him missing the putt in the ryder cup at Kiawah Island.

He's also a villain for the way he anchors his putter, cheating in plain sight.

As you brought up porn stars, John Terry is a villain and a villan. So's his mum.

Did you also wonder why john terrys mum was trending on twitter last year and only clicked on it out of curiosity?

Never really got the not too bright thing with Sandy, don't see it in his interviews. Fact is he is British, so I guess I'm talking on that basis. So few Brits had won anything post war (only Jacklin?) that for him and Faldo to win majors was a big deal. And he did win the Masters in iconic style. Laymen might be more of a legend if he wasn't following Langer, maybe he is a golf legend in Germany.
Not that many people win as much as Lyle did.
Put it this way, if he isn't a legend I'd definitely reassess my judgement on Poulter, he would be a total journeyman in comparison.

And much as I dislike Daly (would be on my villain list for the trousers alone) even I would call his exploits legendary. Stories like this don't t happen often.

In modern golf he is one of the most successful British golfers, behind faldo and rory. A legend of British golf surely.

I've just actually checked his record, 30 pro wins (18 European 6 PGA). 3 order of merits, 167 weeks in top 10. Won the Players (only Brit?) and the Volvo and the BMW.
That's some brief career.

Navy 

Sorry was just a quick tally. Tiger still getting more hero votes than I expected.

Any European with two majors is doing very well, as I pointed out in the poulter discussion not many win even two PGATOUR events .

I guess, outside of America, 2 majors makes you a legend in any country?

I think the term legend is waved around a bit too often. He's probably a legend in British terms, but not in world terms, which is surely what matters?
It's like saying Shearer is a football legend because of Newcastle, well no one else cares about him because he won practically nothing.

That's fair enough, I have no issue with the British/possibily European legend caveat.

I'll accept he's a legend of British/European golf, as only Faldo and McIlroy are ahead of him (as far as I know, Jacklin too maybe)

By the way, WTF is this Drive, Chip and Putt on for about 6 hours?

Here's a question, better career, Sandy or Paddy?

Good question Diggers, and a difficult one.

Paddy, 31 wins and 3 majors.

That many wins, fair play. Always liked him,
to be fair, mainly for crushing Garcia's dreams. Even I'd have have to admit El Sulks career deserves a major though.

Sam Torrance is a villain for his frightful commentating.

Heroes

Seve. The reason I'm playing golf
Rose. All round nice guy
Faldo. Single mindedness to succeed.
Nicklaus. Legend
Jamie Spence. My cousin.

Villian.

T Woods
T Woods
T Woods
T Woods.

Despise him with a passion. Horrible person.

super_realist wrote:Sam Torrance is a villain for his frightful commentating.

And for being a prick! I once marshalled at the Senior Open at The London Club when he was playing. Half way round he asked a young lad following him to go and get him some Mars bars or something like that so the lad trotted off and came back with the said goodies. He gave them to Torrance and asked him for the £3.50 he'd spent out of his own pocket. Torrance replied "I don't pay for things like this" and walked off. What a ****!

beninho wrote:

raycastleunited wrote:

beninho wrote:Langer is a villian - my first real golf memory is him missing the putt in the ryder cup at Kiawah Island.

He's also a villain for the way he anchors his putter, cheating in plain sight.

As you brought up porn stars, John Terry is a villain and a villan. So's his mum.

Did you also wonder why john terrys mum was trending on twitter last year and only clicked on it out of curiosity?

Some of the videos my friends send me on whatsapp is revolting.....

LadyPutt wrote:

super_realist wrote:Sam Torrance is a villain for his frightful commentating.

And for being a prick! I once marshalled at the Senior Open at The London Club when he was playing. Half way round he asked a young lad following him to go and get him some Mars bars or something like that so the lad trotted off and came back with the said goodies. He gave them to Torrance and asked him for the £3.50 he'd spent out of his own pocket. Torrance replied "I don't pay for things like this" and walked off. What a ****!

Shocking!

raycastleunited wrote:

sirbenson wrote:Heroes
Padraig Harrington - my sporting hero and Ireland’s ever greatest sportsman

Villains
Mark Roe because he is just a dreadful commentator

I've never really thought of that before, so thanks for an interesting perspective. I suppose Harrington has a claim, you could equate 3 majors to 3 winner's medals at world championship level, but it is tough to compare team and individual sports. Off the top of my head I would have thought of O'Driscoll, Roy Keane and even Robbie Keane as "great" national sportsmen.

Mark Roe - does anyone think he is a good commentator? Just don't understand how he got the job to begin with.

Yep, O'Driscoll is highly rated, it is an interesting debate alright....people put down Roy for what happened at the World Cup but my word what an incredible player, we'd give anything to have someone even close to his ability. We also have people like Sonia O'Sullivan, Katie Taylor.

Being a Harrington fan though he'd be my choice but then again, I'm slightly biased.

There was a thread elsewhere on the site a year or two ago about Ireland's greatest ever (post WWII anyway) sportsman - think I voted for Pat Eddery.

In fact, it looked something like this:

https://www.606v2.com/t57970-greatest-irish-sportsperson

sirbenson wrote:
We also have people like Sonia O'Sullivan, Katie Taylor.

Being a Harrington fan though he'd be my choice but then again, I'm slightly biased.

I don't think you're being biased. Objectively, he beat the world's best in the most prestigious events in the sport 3 times. Did Sonia O'Sullivan win 3 Olympic or World Championship gold medals? No.