Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

So we made it to the end of the 2017/18 season.  We've seen/endured the first year of Bernard Jackman's plan.  I think most of us have been through a rollercoaster of emotions, similar to previous seasons but perhaps even more so this season given the new injection of life and investment into the Dragons.  First there was the hope - the new coaches, some new players, the new pitch, new chairman, new cash injection.  Then we started to stumble - it's all down to the new coach and getting used to the new systems, we said.  Then came the face plant and the realisation that this trend was going to carry on for the whole season - a couple of wins in the league, a few in Europe, a lot of spankings, not many losing bonus points.  Very poor return.  The hope turned to despair and BJ's methods were being questioned.  Then the hope comes again with the announcement of new signings ('stellar' signings, compared to previous years!) and the assurance that the 1st year of the plan was always going to be difficult and that year 2 would be the one to judge BJ on.....  

So.......on to year 2 (2018/19).  Where are we?  What are our expectations (realistically)?  What's the best team we can put out on paper and how competitive will it be?  For a number of years we've been stuffed in the league so seem to try to get some solace from a decent showing in the Euro 2nd tier comp.  However, should we forget about Europe and try to put all of our focus on the league?  I think so.

Transfers - we've lost more than we've gained, although the quality of the transfers in could/should be better than those leaving.  But I'm worried we'll be thin on the ground when the inevitable injuries hit.

Players In: = 14
Jordan Williams from England Bristol Bears
Rhodri Williams from England Bristol Bears
Ross Moriarty from England Gloucester
Rhodri Davies from England Rotherham Titans
Richard Hibbard from England Gloucester
Huw Taylor from England Worcester Warriors
Josh Lewis from England Bath
Ryan Bevington from England Bristol Bears
Aaron Jarvis from France Clermont
Dafydd Howells from Wales Ospreys
Tiaan Loots from Wales RGC 1404
Jacob Botica from Wales RGC 1404
Rhys Lawrence from England Ealing Trailfinders
Brandon Nansen from France

Players Out: - =21
Sarel Pretorius to South Africa Southern Kings
Phil Price to Wales Scarlets
Scott Andrews to Wales Neath
Luke Garrett to Wales Neath
Adam Hughes retired
Pat Howard to England Ealing Trailfinders
Rhys Buckley to Wales Bargoed
Barney Nightingale to Wales Bargoed
Keagan Bale to Wales Bargoed
Angus O'Brien to Wales Scarlets
Nicky Thomas to Wales Scarlets (return from short-term loan)
Dorian Jones to France Angoulême
Charlie Davies to England Northampton Saints
Lloyd Lewis to Wales Pontypool
Sam Beard to New Zealand Canterbury
Sam Hobbs released
Thomas Davies released
Liam Belcher released
Ashley Sweet released
Robson Blake released
Carl Meyer released

I'll try to update the Ins and Outs as we go.

[RiscaGame]

Mitrea

Yep.

[RiscaGame]

No Josh Lewis, with no apparent injury. At least Tovey is under no pressure to kick, with Rhodri having to do it all.

The second row experiment continues, unsurprisingly. Be interesting to see how this side goes. Zane straight back on the bench is somewhat strange, after being a starter last week.

[Stone Motif]

No Josh Lewis, with no apparent injury. At least Tovey is under no pressure to kick, with Rhodri having to do it all.

The second row experiment continues, unsurprisingly. Be interesting to see how this side goes. Zane straight back on the bench is somewhat strange, after being a starter last week.

WTF wouldn't you have Evans on the bench covering lock and back row and let Joe Davies have a crack? Being as he's an actual lock forward that has been bigged up no end by Jackson in the past iirc. About the only thing I like about this team is Warren in off the wing (which was hardly the charlatans call) and Jack Dixon back (though Sage has found his feet to be fair).

[Guest]

From Dragons site and wiki.  Spot the odd one out:

Joe Davies - 6ft 6in; 19 stone 1lb
Brandon Nansen - 6ft 6ins; 18 stone 6lbs
Rynard Landman - 6ft 5ins; 18 stone 10lbs
Matthew Screech - 6ft 6ins; 18 stone 3lbs
Cory Hill - 6ft 5ins; 18 stone 5lbs
Lewis Evans - Disagreement on sites - 6ft 3in; 17 stone 8lbs (Dragons) OR 6ft 4ins and 16 stone 7lbs (wiki)

Opponents this week:
Iain Henderson - 6ft 7in; 18 stone 8lbs.
Kieran Treadwell - 6ft 6in; 17 stone 0lbs.

I know size isn't everything (I was a huge fan of Shane Williams, for example).  But deliberately putting in a small guy in the 2nd row is a bit daft if you ask me.  Shorter and lighter by some way compared to his teammates AND opponents.  And someone who has spent most of his career on the side of the scrum is not going to have the scrummaging ability of someone who is a seasoned pro lock forward, surely?  So what's the reason?  What will an extra back rower bring over the back rowers already selected?  Is one of our back rowers not up to a certain facet of back row play?  Is it because he will be lighter to throw up for the lineouts (but 3 inches shorter than his opponents!)?  

Next week - Leon Brown to Hooker and Ollie Griffiths to centre.....!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

This is just reckless, isn't it? You don't go to Ravenhill with a light pack if you can help it. And if it's a ball-in-hand argument, then Landman's shown some neat touches in the past.

It wouldn't surprise me if Jackman's just seen that the Blues play Turnbull there and thought that any old back rower can do it.

[Guest]

He’ll probably play Evans at lock for this game and then ship him off to a Cross Keys for a few weeks to ‘find himself’, or whatever it is they do at the Prem clubs, such is Jackman’s way!

[RiscaGame]

The only reason he has given is lineout calling. It’s laughable. He could do that from the back row, whilst Cory is away. It can’t be hard. Besides which, most lineouts seem to be passed from prop to hooker anyway, so running a lineout doesn’t always come into it. Jackman is sadly obsessed with converting players. He has done it with Ellis, Evans, Kirchener and talked about Benjamin too. It makes me wonder what is next yeah.

[Stone Motif]

From Dragons site and wiki.  Spot the odd one out:

Joe Davies - 6ft 6in; 19 stone 1lb
Brandon Nansen - 6ft 6ins; 18 stone 6lbs
Rynard Landman - 6ft 5ins; 18 stone 10lbs
Matthew Screech - 6ft 6ins; 18 stone 3lbs
Cory Hill - 6ft 5ins; 18 stone 5lbs
Lewis Evans - Disagreement on sites - 6ft 3in; 17 stone 8lbs (Dragons) OR 6ft 4ins and 16 stone 7lbs (wiki)

Opponents this week:
Iain Henderson - 6ft 7in; 18 stone 8lbs.
Kieran Treadwell - 6ft 6in; 17 stone 0lbs.

I know size isn't everything (I was a huge fan of Shane Williams, for example).  But deliberately putting in a small guy in the 2nd row is a bit daft if you ask me.  Shorter and lighter by some way compared to his teammates AND opponents.  And someone who has spent most of his career on the side of the scrum is not going to have the scrummaging ability of someone who is a seasoned pro lock forward, surely?  So what's the reason?  What will an extra back rower bring over the back rowers already selected?  Is one of our back rowers not up to a certain facet of back row play?  Is it because he will be lighter to throw up for the lineouts (but 3 inches shorter than his opponents!)?  

Next week - Leon Brown to Hooker and Ollie Griffiths to centre.....!

I can believe 17 8, saw him in Cardiff pool the other week and by heck he is carrying some timber

[Guest]

Is that his fighting weight do you think or has he been bulking up for 2nd row?

[Stone Motif]

Is that his fighting weight do you think or has he been bulking up for 2nd row?

If he has been bulking it's been using Bernard's forbidden puddings method...

[Guest]

Is that his fighting weight do you think or has he been bulking up for 2nd row?

If he has been bulking it's been using Bernard's forbidden puddings method...

Oh right!  Should have realised what you meant when you said 'carrying some timber'.  Too fat for flanker and too small for lock!  That's why he's found himself in no man's land and looking for a role in the team.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

He better not get carded tonight.

[RiscaGame]

Because of the Tovey "loan", I have just found out we have signed another prospect at flyhalf as he is replacing him for the Keys tonight. Will Kelly, a Canadian. How many prospect tens do we actually need?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

It might be that the other regions do this too, and farm them out to their feeder clubs. I don't know.

How many other stealth signings have me made?!

[munkian]

Where the hell is Joe Davies ?

[Stone Motif]

Where the hell is Joe Davies ?

Ulster, presumably?

[munkian]

Where the hell is Joe Davies ?

Ulster, presumably?

Durrp

[carpet baboon]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

[munkian]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

One of the strongest we can put out but no where near full strength - missing our Wales contingent - Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Cory Hill, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Tyler Morgan.

Also missing Amos due to injury.

[Stone Motif]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

One of the strongest we can put out but no where near full strength - missing our Wales contingent - Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Cory Hill, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Tyler Morgan.

Also missing Amos due to injury.

Better than average when measured against other Dragons teams of years gone by, but poor when measured against any other professional side in the Northern Hemisphere

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

One of the strongest we can put out but no where near full strength - missing our Wales contingent - Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Cory Hill, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Tyler Morgan.

Also missing Amos due to injury.

And Ollie Griffiths.

[munkian]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

One of the strongest we can put out but no where near full strength - missing our Wales contingent - Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Cory Hill, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Tyler Morgan.

Also missing Amos due to injury.

And Ollie Griffiths.

Sigh, yes, him too

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Not bad being able to list six Dragons players in the Wales squad though

[munkian]

Not bad being able to list six Dragons players in the Wales squad though

No, price of, well was going to say success but...no.

[carpet baboon]

Now I'm worried. Whenever a team tells me there missing players and it's the best they can get out Ulster normally screw things up and lose

[RiscaGame]

You have nothing to worry about.

[Stone Motif]

Not bad being able to list six Dragons players in the Wales squad though

It is when the consequence is putting out a side like this

[Stone Motif]

Is it me or does every time we ship a weak score involve brok harris or Lloyd fairbrother being made to look a t1t?

[RiscaGame]

Fairbrother does get caught out a lot positionally.

Actually playing some pretty good stuff in attack. They should’ve had a yellow too. I can’t see what the reasoning would be not to give him one. Second offence. Red zone. Poor refereeing.

[Guest]

Another loss. Yawn.

Anyway, Warren G is at it too. Cory Hill to backrow. It was only a month or two ago that Wales had too many back rowers to choose from:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17010201.wales-set-for-autumn-experiment-with-dragons-lock-hill-in-the-back-row/

[Stone Motif]

We actually shaded possession and territory in that game. Just shows how toothless we are attacking. It burns us out for very little gain. Which I'm sure is part of the reason we missed another 36 tackles in that match. Not one starting forward managed to carry 20 yards.

[RiscaGame]

In some ways, I thought Keddie offered more than Moriarty did tonight. I also thought that they actually came on to the ball at pace at times too. But you would expect a pack with four backrowers to do a bit more than they did too. I still think we lose a lot with Cudd playing too.

I just can’t work out how we do pretty well in the scrum and lineout and then not really ever feel on top as a pack.

[Stone Motif]

In some ways, I thought Keddie offered more than Moriarty did tonight. I also thought that they actually came on to the ball at pace at times too. But you would expect a pack with four backrowers to do a bit more than they did too. I still think we lose a lot with Cudd playing too.

I just can’t work out how we do pretty well in the scrum and lineout and then not really ever feel on top as a pack.

We have a tight five of lumps, strong probably but not powerful, not athletic, not agile.

[RiscaGame]

Yeah, fair play there.

[mikey_dragon]

Dragons fans I will be honest and admit the only time I have seen the dragons play this season was when your fullback scored that cracking try a few weeks back.
What's this team like tonight? Close to full strength? Better than average?

One of the strongest we can put out but no where near full strength - missing our Wales contingent - Leon Brown, Elliot Dee, Cory Hill, Ross Moriarty, Aaron Wainwright and Tyler Morgan.

Also missing Amos due to injury.

And Ollie Griffiths.

Sigh, yes, him too

Nowhere near? I’d say otherwise, and certainly a lot better than we put out in previous seasons when we were hit by our two international call ups. Speaking of which, looks as if Ulster have all of theirs playing? Either way it’s another loss, another bonus point given for the opposition. How long is this BS from Jackman going to be tolerated I wonder? Keep in mind that if he had planned to lose this one we’d know about it in advance because he’s polite like that.

[mikey_dragon]

Another loss. Yawn.

Anyway, Warren G is at it too. Cory Hill to backrow. It was only a month or two ago that Wales had too many back rowers to choose from:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17010201.wales-set-for-autumn-experiment-with-dragons-lock-hill-in-the-back-row/

He could be a decent 6 but I don’t think he has the acceleration for it? Most other aspects of his game are good.

[Guest]

Another loss. Yawn.

Anyway, Warren G is at it too. Cory Hill to backrow. It was only a month or two ago that Wales had too many back rowers to choose from:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17010201.wales-set-for-autumn-experiment-with-dragons-lock-hill-in-the-back-row/

He could be a decent 6 but I don’t think he has the acceleration for it? Most other aspects of his game are good.

I was thinking more about the number that we’ve already got at 6. Certainly, Hill has a number of attributes that mean he might be ok there. Maybe Gats doesn’t think we have enough cover. But I’d prefer us (Wales) to develop an existing 6 (like Wainright for example) rather than mess around with one of our locks, especially as 2nd row is one of the positions that we haven’t got an abundance of talent.

[Stone Motif]

Another loss. Yawn.

Anyway, Warren G is at it too. Cory Hill to backrow. It was only a month or two ago that Wales had too many back rowers to choose from:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17010201.wales-set-for-autumn-experiment-with-dragons-lock-hill-in-the-back-row/

He could be a decent 6 but I don’t think he has the acceleration for it? Most other aspects of his game are good.

I was thinking more about the number that we’ve already got at 6. Certainly, Hill has a number of attributes that mean he might be ok there. Maybe Gats doesn’t think we have enough cover. But I’d prefer us (Wales) to develop an existing 6 (like Wainright for example) rather than mess around with one of our locks, especially as 2nd row is one of the positions that we haven’t got an abundance of talent.

This is about covering multiple positions with a limited world cup squad size rather than a permanent move surely? Depends on whether he has a prop he's confident in that can move around the front row as much as anything to do with Cory I'd say.

[RiscaGame]

Great win for Dragons A, against major international opposition. If the A team are knocking over countries, we should really unleash them against the provinces/regions etc.

Amos back on Saturday is good news. Straight in at 11, I assume. We might even see the lesser spotted Rynard Landman make a squad appearance this weekend too, now Screech is injured.

[Stone Motif]

Great win for Dragons A, against major international opposition. If the A team are knocking over countries, we should really unleash them against the provinces/regions etc.

Amos back on Saturday is good news. Straight in at 11, I assume. We might even see the lesser spotted Rynard Landman make a squad appearance this weekend too, now Screech is injured.

Nah. Huw watshisface can cover lock

[RiscaGame]

Ah yeah. I just assumed he might be starting 6 again.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We actually shaded possession and territory in that game. Just shows how toothless we are attacking. It burns us out for very little gain. Which I'm sure is part of the reason we missed another 36 tackles in that match. Not one starting forward managed to carry 20 yards.

Which makes it all the more disheartening when the opposition find it so easy to make line breaks. As Mark Robson said on the weekend, 'the Dragons' scramble defence is excellent  - but it's had to be' (or words to that effect).

[Stone Motif]

We actually shaded possession and territory in that game. Just shows how toothless we are attacking. It burns us out for very little gain. Which I'm sure is part of the reason we missed another 36 tackles in that match. Not one starting forward managed to carry 20 yards.

Which makes it all the more disheartening when the opposition find it so easy to make line breaks. As Mark Robson said on the weekend, 'the Dragons' scramble defence is excellent  - but it's had to be' (or words to that effect).

NZ do it all the time. They know their defence is a brick wall and they have the talent to cause havoc off little possession so they let the opposition have the ball and wait for the sucker punch opportunity.

Trouble is we make most other teams look like NZ.

[Stone Motif]

Now I'm not for a second questioning Hallam's ability to make this shift long term, but is this the time to experiment FFS? Outside centre is the most difficult positions on the pitch defensively and Amos has always struggled with defensive positioning...

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17189222.wales-wing-hallam-amos-set-for-dragons-return-as-a-centre/

[RiscaGame]

The bloke is becoming a parody. I saw Kirwan tweet, it’s because he can offload and make something happen. That’s as good as coughing that there is no game plan. Worst thing is, that Warren will probably make way for him.

[Stone Motif]

The bloke is becoming a parody. I saw Kirwan tweet, it’s because he can offload and make something happen. That’s as good as coughing that there is no game plan. Worst thing is, that Warren will probably make way for him.

I sense Warren G's hand in it.

[munkian]

The bloke is becoming a parody. I saw Kirwan tweet, it’s because he can offload and make something happen. That’s as good as coughing that there is no game plan. Worst thing is, that Warren will probably make way for him.

I sense Warren G's hand in it.

His possible shift to centre was first talked about a couple of years ago but yeah, I thing Mr G is definitely looking for players to cover several roles during the RWC due to limited squad size.

Hes a big, strong and fast runner who can cut some lovely lines and he's often wasted out on the wing. I'm much positive about this than Hill at 6.

[Stone Motif]

The bloke is becoming a parody. I saw Kirwan tweet, it’s because he can offload and make something happen. That’s as good as coughing that there is no game plan. Worst thing is, that Warren will probably make way for him.

I sense Warren G's hand in it.

His possible shift to centre was first talked about a couple of years ago but yeah, I thing Mr G is definitely looking for players to cover several roles during the RWC due to limited squad size.

Hes a big, strong and fast runner who can cut some lovely lines and he's often wasted out on the wing. I'm much positive about this than Hill at 6.

He's got the ability to learn I just can't accept this trip which is at the least the most winnable Irish away game, is the time.

[RiscaGame]

Dragons: J Williams, D Howells, H Amos, J Sage, W Talbot-Davies, J Tovey, R Williams, B Harris, R Hibbard (captain), L Fairbrother, J Davies, L Evans, H Keddie, N Cudd, T Basham. Replacements: R Lawrence, A Jarvis, D Suter, J Thomas, H Taylor, T Knoyle, J Dixon, A Warren.

I don’t mind JT as a player, so Landman not making the squad isn’t as bad this week. I will still take some convincing of Evans as a lock, but there we go.

I am unsure how Amos will go at 13 and I don’t like Dan Suter being our tight head cover.

[RiscaGame]

The trouble with Amos is that I’m not sure Talbot Davies is more worthy of a start over Adam Warren either.

[Sponsored content]