Gallagher Premiership - Round 3

by **LondonTiger** Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:18 pm

First topic message reminder :

Friday 14th September

19:45 Gloucester v Bristol (BT Sport)

Saturday 15th September

15:00 Exeter v Sale
15:00 Harlequins v Bath (BT Sport)
15:00 Northampton v Saracens
15:00 Worcester v Newcastle

Sunday 16th September

15:00 Wasps v Leicester (BT Sport)

Gloucester and Exeter should be far too strong for Bristol and Sale and should both secure TBP wins.
Quins were good against Sale, poor against Saints. Bath were woeful in week 1 and only started playing after 35 minutes in week 2. If Quins are indeed making progress under Gustard they have to put Bath away with some ease.
My gut feel says that Saints are improved this season and should not suffer yet another thrashing from Sarries (4 last season?). Though still looking to shake of the early season rustiness, the champs should however secure an away win.
The two teams at the bottom meet at Sixways. Newcastle should be stronger but will be nervous as while not a must win game, with the fixtures both sides face in the following two weeks a win would be very useful.
Even at full strength, the Wasps pack does not look the strongest. With the injuries they currently face usually Leicester would travel down the M69 with some confidence. However without a miraculous improvement in the defense Tigers could have a new bumhole ripped for them by the Wasps backline.

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:49 am

Awful awful decision

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:49 am

Cole lucky not to see yellow IMO ...

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:52 am

He was marginally late and attempted to wrap his arm

by TightHEAD Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:52 am

Might as well go and cut the grass now, game over.

Not a red for me, look at the height of the fella! Plus wasps guy ducked into it

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:54 am

Cole one looked to me like he could easily have pulled out and clearly led with shoulder with little attempt to wrap but we'll agree to disagree.

Red after was harsh, although probably technically following directives.

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:55 am

He certainly ducked into it, his legs were bent at 90 degrees.

Another game ruined to have the red card rescinded at a hearing

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:55 am

Ref said it's a yellow for cole if it's open play. It's not late as it's a dead ball according to his interpretation.

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:55 am

How else do you tackle without the shoulder?

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:56 am

Go lower. Know that any contact straight to head at best is going to open you up to a close decision.

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:01 am

7 1/2, that was with reference to comes one.

Taylor ducked into contact on the second one, look at his legs

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:03 am

Wasps best player strikes again.

Tommy Taylor's knees are bent so far into contact that his legs are at right angles. Spencer is bent at the waist. He's not always high at all. Competent ref please.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:05 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ref said it's a yellow for cole if it's open play. It's not late as it's a dead ball according to his interpretation.

Cole was being naughty and he knew it. Having said that if you take a quick tap and go then expect to be hit. It certainly looked late to me but the left arm is clearly around the body. If Cole doesn't react and waits to see if the ref blows then it's too late and Robson is passed him.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:06 am

I can see Nathan. Not 90 degrees but watching at half the analysis saying saying Taylor doesn't go lower always at that height. With force to the jaw. By the letter it's red. Sorry it's tight but probably right.

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:08 am

Re Cole, there's a difference in going in with your shoulder and no arms versus attempting to wrap - as I said I think we need to agree to disagree - the ref agrees with you, others agree with me (eg commentary team etc) - that's the issue with rugby unfortunately, many subjective calls.

Most will also probably say the red was harsh but the ref believed he had no choice based on current directives.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:19 am

The current directives were about discouraging swinging arms and rugby league style flying shoulders. It wasn't meant to see players attempting legal challenges get red cards because shorter player duck into the contact. For me you have to look at the intent of the tackler and Spencer wasn't intentionally high.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:22 am

Well that's some pretty good footwork from de Jongh. Shoe in for try of the week.

by marty2086 Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:26 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:The current directives were about discouraging swinging arms and rugby league style flying shoulders. It wasn't meant to see players attempting legal challenges get red cards because shorter player duck into the contact. For me you have to look at the intent of the tackler and Spencer wasn't intentionally high.

When you say duck into contact you mean carry the ball into contact at pretty much the same height he at he received it at? And when you say not intentionally high, was he accidentally at that height?

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:28 am

Same height my arse.
Would love to see how you run with your knees bent at 90 degrees with your feet still on the ground

by marty2086 Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:32 am

nathan wrote:Same height my arse.
Would love to see how you run with your knees bent at 90 degrees with your feet still on the ground

By being bent at the hip Rolling Eyes

by TightHEAD Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:32 am

Who let the muppet in shouting miss?

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:33 am

So at the point of contact his knees were bent 90 degrees with his feet on the floor. You expect him to run like that whilst maintaining the same height?

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:34 am

That was a harsh call on wasps

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:34 am

TightHEAD wrote:Who let the muppet in shouting miss?

Every village has an idiot and sometimes they go and watch rugby.

Tigers lineout is shocking again today. Killing us.

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:40 am

Offside? Wasps looked to be all behind the back foot when the ball popped out?

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:42 am

That pen looked harsh too after Manu ripped the ball ... ref is not having a great day all round ...

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:43 am

He isn't, wasps discipline needs to be better too

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:43 am

We won't win this, will be too shattered

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:45 am

At the risk of getting shouted at the last pass before Tigers' last try looked iffy and he didn't bother to check it ...

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:47 am

Lol, I won't shout at you but it doesn't surprise me you are haven't a positive comment to say

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:48 am

Good save by Ben Y

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:49 am

Don't get me wrong - I'm enjoying the match despite the ref

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:57 am

by marty2086 Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:58 am

nathan wrote:So at the point of contact his knees were bent 90 degrees with his feet on the floor. You expect him to run like that whilst maintaining the same height?

Strange comment, no one said he was intending to run like that since he'd just offloaded anticipating the contact

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:59 am

Heaf wrote:At the risk of getting shouted at the last pass before Tigers' last try looked iffy and he didn't bother to check it ...

Ford took a quick conversion for exactly that reason. Any competent ref would have noticed and stopped the quick conversion and gone upstairs. There's no clearer give away of potential issue with a try then the flyhalf trying to take a quick kick.

Two point loss away at Wasps. Not bad. Plenty of young guns getting game time as well.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:00 am

Ref was poor. I wonder if he reviewed the Spencer incident at HT and decided he was wrong, then came out trying to redress the balance. Certainly the initial contact looked to be with the Wasps player's shoulder, and looked more legal than Smith's last week that was overturned.

Sam, until Spencer went off, lineout was very good I felt. After that it was easy for them to get jumpers in front of Williams.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:00 am

Ford was excellent again today, though yes that final assist was forward.

by nathan Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:03 am

I was asking how his height couldn't of changed, you said he was bent at the hip.

His knees were bent at impact meaning his height just of changed considerably

by marty2086 Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:06 am

No I said there wasn't much difference, you can change position but be at the same height it's not overly complicated but you seem to want to say it was a bad decision when it was pretty blatant red

by Heaf Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:11 am

Well despite all the controversy and poor officiating it was an exciting match to watch with plenty of good tries. 2 points away to Wasps isn't a bad result either ...

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:28 am

LondonTiger wrote:Ref was poor. I wonder if he reviewed the Spencer incident at HT and decided he was wrong, then came out trying to redress the balance. Certainly the initial contact looked to be with the Wasps player's shoulder, and looked more legal than Smith's last week that was overturned.

Sam, until Spencer went off, lineout was very good I felt. After that it was easy for them to get jumpers in front of Williams.

Denton was also on the field and under used at the lineout after being prominent last weekend. To be fair the lineout was very good at the start of the second half and we marched Wasps back from the half way through successive rolling mauls. Got a try and the Hughes yellow card. After that we stopped using the maul and just got picked off trying to throw to the middle.

Losing those lineouts really cost us, we needed to get some possession and apply pressure.

Loved the character on show. Real pride in the shirt when they could have easily rolled over.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:03 am

Just heard Dai Young on the radio saying he felt the Spencer challenge was a YC.

by formerly known as Sam Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:36 am

LondonTiger wrote:Just heard Dai Young on the radio saying he felt the Spencer challenge was a YC.

His post match interview was very even handed. He said that he hoped Spencer didn't pick up a suspension and that the red card was more than enough punishment.

by Geordie Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:49 pm

Havent seen the game or the incidents...

HOWEVER from the comments, its clear that once again the standard of Refereeing in the prem is being called in to question.

This needs addressed by the RFU and Premier League senior officials immediately as its almost every game now that howlers are being made!

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:51 pm

Wasn't a howler by any stretch of the imagination.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:55 pm

Arguably there was at least one howler in the Wasps/Tigers game, but not the sending off. That was fine margins which will be debated at the disciplinary hearing tomorrow.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:06 pm

Howler being mays 2nd?

by Geordie Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:39 pm

7.5

The fact that EVERY game seems to be creating debates over the referees would suggest there is a problem.

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:43 pm

And then read the threads from the pro 12 internationals etc etc..don't think it's anything to do with standards.

by Geordie Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:51 pm

We'll agree to disagree....

by No 7&1/2 Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:57 pm

I'm not saying there's never a mistake I'm just saying people look to blame a ref rather than their players or coaches. Example above blaming a ref for.not calling a scrum off an ops side at the kick off rather than owen for dropping a retake. Owens is the bigger mistake. The debate is about the ref.

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