Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Part 2

Signing Carter, resigning Coetzee and swapping Milaninovich for Herbst I would not describe as underwhelming

Not least because there needs to be a realism of what we can afford - the days of Pienaer are gone.
We can not compete with the £1million salaries being dangled in front of player by French and English clubs

Also your observation regarding Carter and questioning whether he is better than AOC and Treadwell suggest to me you have never seen him play.
At this moment in time he is a much better player - much better than the likes of France VdM and Carlo Fava for example.

If we sign a decent LH it will have been very good business and expect more would be totally unrealistic

Saw a bit of milaninovich on Friday night in Worcesters premiership cup match.
Looks a good carrier, seemed to hold his own in the scrum against sarries. Good signing I think

Yea, you are correct, not familiar with him. Glad to hear he's a much better player. At least there will still be plenty of game-time for all three. O'Connor has plenty of years left in him at only 26, and Treadwell is still young at 23. But yea, great to have Carter especially given the World Cup.

Looks like Faddes is big into his hunting. Hope we don't get Kingspan picketed by animal rights folks next

Brumbies play Rebels and Highlanders play Chiefs this weekend - might have a look. Although I've no idea if both are fit and/or available for selection right now.

Both played at the weekend in warm up games, reckon we'll see both this weekend

Carter is definitely a big plus and think he'll give our lineout some consistency next season. He also offers the option of moving Henderson to the backrow should it be needed for some games next season should it be required.

Henderson option to backrow was a key part of the decision

Quality LH, Best/Herring, Moore, Henderson, Carter, Ready/Timoney, Coetzee, Murphy is none to shabby
Alternatively Treadwell/AOC/Nagle in second row and Henderson joining Coetzee and Murphy in the backrow also looks pretty good.

I see Rory is saying his international career will be over at WC but he is tempted to stay on for Ulster - fair play to him

We should have Addison and Murphy back for Ospreys - outside chance of getting Cooney as well seeing as Marmion is now considered fit

clivemcl wrote:
I reckon at this stage, the consensus on the signings would be ... underwhelming?

Don't agree at all, I've been very impressed with the recruitment we've done so far.

On related note I do think we should be a bit concerned at what is going on at LI, they seem to be targeting the provincial overflow and by the looks of have plenty of cash.

We've been the beneficiary of some good inter provincial moves, I'd be worried that LI may start to scupper that by offering big wages to players who want to move for game time.

To be fair... I made a guess at what the consensus would be. Not what those of us with better knowledge make of it! I’d imagine a large portion of fans would have feelings if ‘meh’.

I knew Carter had Aus caps, but only because I looked him up. Can’t say he was a know name to me. Faddes I don’t know if many can promise he will be fantastic (let’s hope he is) and more so for the prop whose name I don’t have time to go check the spelling of!

geoff999rugby wrote:We should have Addison and Murphy back for Ospreys - outside chance of getting Cooney as well seeing as Marmion is now considered fit

According to reports Cooney and Murphy were both training yesterday, Addison wasn't though

rodders wrote:
On related note I do think we should be a bit concerned at what is going on at LI, they seem to be targeting the provincial overflow and by the looks of have plenty of cash.

We've been the beneficiary of some good inter provincial moves, I'd be worried that LI may start to scupper that by offering big wages to players who want to move for game time.

Have they not only signed SOB? I get what you're saying but I think there is a threat from Premiership teams in general and some Top 14 teams given the RWC overlaps with the start of the season.

Top14 are signing fringe players to cover for their top players being away

I know it is not perfect but consider this

Muller 24 SA caps
Carter 16 Aussie Caps
FvDM 1 SA Caps
Del Fava - Ulster are the only team he played for close to be top draw

That gives you idea - Carter is closer to Muller in ability than he is to the other two
Faddes isn't even here yet and will be a utility back
Milasinovich is not regular 1st team material but he is a potential impact sub, can play both sides and should be available far more often than Herbst and he's cheaper. For all of those reasons he is an enhancement to the team and IQ

As Bryn said we needed three quality players LH, Lock, Backrow - 2 down 1 to go, anything above that e.g Milasinovich and maybe Faddes are a bonus

Is the signing of Jackson official yet?
Would like to see LI bolster their squad more, just because it would be nice to see Jackson playing again along with a good team and behind a good pack.

Not concerned by LI

We are largely a young side and most of those are Irish with a hope of playing for the national side - they will not risk that at this stage in their careers

Of those with contracts coming up for renewal the only ones I can see even considering it, if offered, are:
Gilroy and Cave

LI will struggle regardless of who they sign - it is a tough jump to make and you cannot buy team understanding.
Even with all their money Bristol are just doing ok

Don't want to speak for rodders but I took it he meant in terms of how it might affect recruitment more than retention.

Cave seemed to indicate before xmas he would be signing a new deal, in recent weeks doesn't seem to be the case talking of his options outside rugby. Im guessing whatever he was offered is a decent drop in salary and might be seriously considering this being his last season

marty2086 wrote:Don't want to speak for rodders but I took it he meant in terms of how it might affect recruitment more than retention.

Yes I was probably speaking more on that. Clearly the strategy from the IRFU is to try and move players around - particularly from Leinster the other 3 provinces.

Irrespective of what people think about that, the potential for LI to scupper some of those moves is something to be concerned about - clearly they are targeting Irish players, which makes them more of a threat than the likes of Bristol or the French teams.

Is SOB not the only Irish player they have confirmed for next season? Jackson will likely join, I don't think Macken and Gilsenan are contracted next season yet but that'll give them 4. Have they been linked to anyone else?

I think when they were taken over they talked up signing more Irish players but it went out the window pretty quick as they also talked about bringing on their academy players too

LI are not going to recruit IQ players interested in playing for Ireland
So it will only affect us in regard to players whose International days are over
We are not competing at the same price bracket for NIQ players

Coetzee has resigned because he wants to repay us and likes it here
Carter has signed in large part because his mate Christian has told him what a great place it is

Also for Irish I wonder how many have relegation get out clauses ?

Even if they did have clauses would they want to activate them? SOB is going to earn £500k a year, would anyone else be willing to match that or beat it for a guy who will be 33 when it might be possible to?

SOB wouldn't but others would.

Latest rumour is we re getting Murphy and Cooney but not Addison

I assume Addison will be getting a run out against Italy then.
also that Marmion will be straight back in, at least on the bench

Cants see Coetzee playing so a pack of:
O'Sullivan, Herring. Moore, Treadwell, AOC, Reidy, Timoney, Murphy with Cooney ay 9
None too shabby
Backs are harder to work out

Faddes and Carter are both starting for Highlanders and Brumbies respectively on the opening weekend of Super Rugby if anyone wants a nosey.

clivemcl wrote:Faddes and Carter are both starting for Highlanders and Brumbies respectively on the opening weekend of Super Rugby if anyone wants a nosey.

Both games on Sky Sports Action on Friday morning, 6.35 kick off for Chiefs and Highlanders then Brumbies play Rebels at 8.45

(15-9): P Nelson; A Kernohan, D Cave, S McCloskey, L Ludik; M Lowry, J Cooney;
(1-8): E O’Sullivan, R Herring, M Moore, A O’Connor (captain), I Henderson, C Ross, J Murphy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, T O'Toole, K Treadwell, S Reidy, D Shanahan, J Hume, R Lyttle.

Henderson must be the bionic man that is amazing
Decent pack - back three is a bit ropey though
Great to see Lowry getting a start at 10

Ospreys team

15 Dan Evans, 14 Hanno Dirksen, 13 Cory Allen, 12 Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler, 11 Luke Morgan,10 Sam Davies (Capt), 9 Tom Habberfield; 1 Jordan Lay,2 Scott Baldwin,3 Tom Botha, 4 Lloyd Ashley, 5 Bradley Davies, 6 Olly Cracknell, 7 Sam Cross, 8 James King

REPLACEMENTS
16 Scott Otten,17 Rowan Jenkins,18 Ma’afu Fia,19 Will Griffiths,20 Rob McCusker,21 Matthew Aubrey,22 Luke Price,23 Keelan Giles

geoff999rugby wrote:(15-9): P Nelson; A Kernohan, D Cave, S McCloskey, L Ludik; M Lowry, J Cooney;
(1-8): E O’Sullivan, R Herring, M Moore, A O’Connor (captain), I Henderson, C Ross, J Murphy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, T O'Toole, K Treadwell, S Reidy, D Shanahan, J Hume, R Lyttle.

Henderson must be the bionic man that is amazing
Decent pack - back three is a bit ropey though
Great to see Lowry getting a start at 10

Still no Gilroy? Or Curtis? Should we be worried?

geoff999rugby wrote:
Henderson must be the bionic man that is amazing

Lets hope he's not being rushed back to face Italy...

I bet he is - Schmidt knows Roux is not good enough for France and Wales
Gilroy is a back problem - so who knows.
Still not convinced he will be here next year
Curtis does concern me - pray it is not a Payne type concussion

On the other site being suggested IRFU trying to persuade McGrath to come north
(The prop not the SH)

Now that would be a coup

Did Cyril really start this thread?

Collapse2005 wrote:Did Cyril really start this thread?

From what I remember no he did not.
But one of his hand grenade remarks was quoted as the topic.
I think it was intended as a "nice try Cyril" as pretty much everyone on the Ulster thread just ignored him/it.

geoff999rugby wrote:On the other site being suggested IRFU trying to persuade McGrath to come north
(The prop not the SH)

Now that would be a coup

Can't they try and persuade both? I take it they want to make room for Dooley and Byrne to get more game time?

Just can't see it happening, it wasn't that long ago he was first choice. He seems to have lost a bit in his game while Healys improved but unless he's been told he's not going to be Leinsters number 1 again he'll scrap it out for that slot I think

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:On the other site being suggested IRFU trying to persuade McGrath to come north
(The prop not the SH)

Now that would be a coup

Can't they try and persuade both? I take it they want to make room for Dooley and Byrne to get more game time?

Just can't see it happening, it wasn't that long ago he was first choice. He seems to have lost a bit in his game while Healys improved but unless he's been told he's not going to be Leinsters number 1 again he'll scrap it out for that slot I think

One thing I do know is that McGrath is good mates with Trimble, now if the IRFU are suggesting going north would be good for him, I would hope Trimble is currently giving him the hard sell.
You never know, if he felt a change of scenery could be what he's after, then moving up to us would be a good thing. He already knows half the team, and our head coach is getting nothing but praise.
Maybe, just maybe

carpet baboon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Did Cyril really start this thread?

From what I remember no he did not.
But one of his hand grenade remarks was quoted as the topic.
I think it was intended as a "nice try Cyril" as pretty much everyone on the Ulster thread just ignored him/it.

Something wierd is going on. When I leave the thread and into the my posts view it says Hazel Sapling started it.

Collapse2005 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Did Cyril really start this thread?

From what I remember no he did not.
But one of his hand grenade remarks was quoted as the topic.
I think it was intended as a "nice try Cyril" as pretty much everyone on the Ulster thread just ignored him/it.

Something wierd is going on. When I leave the thread and into the my posts view it says Hazel Sapling started it.

Think Hazel probably started the original thread but somethings have been culled to create space

geoff999rugby wrote:(15-9): P Nelson; A Kernohan, D Cave, S McCloskey, L Ludik; M Lowry, J Cooney;
(1-8): E O’Sullivan, R Herring, M Moore, A O’Connor (captain), I Henderson, C Ross, J Murphy, N Timoney;
Replacements (16-23): J Andrew, A Warwick, T O'Toole, K Treadwell, S Reidy, D Shanahan, J Hume, R Lyttle.

Henderson must be the bionic man that is amazing
Decent pack - back three is a bit ropey though
Great to see Lowry getting a start at 10

Unless there's injuries which haven't been advertised that backline selection is inexplicable. If Lyttle is fit enough for the bench why is he behind Kernohan? Where has Balacoune gone? McPhillips has disappeared and Nelson now jumps back to starting 15?

Surely Lowry, Lyttle, Cave/Hume, McCloskey, Ludik, McPhillips, Cooney would have made more sense.

Kinda agree Redman. Unless there are injuries, it seems like an odd mix of giving up on some players completely (McPhillips), giving some players another bit fo gametime before retirement (Cave) and giving others a last chance to show if they can step up before shipping them off (Nelson).

Hume has been pretty good, and Lyttle has been solid (and in the past was very exciting). But then.... I guess we don't see the training ground or other matches. Maybe Kernohan and Nelson have really shown they deserve the chance. Maybe Lowry has proven to Dan that he can be a solid 10?

I guess we'll see tomorrow night.

Balacoune is injured, I suspect McPhillips is as well seeing as he is not on the bench
Our injury list is pretty long at the moment
Good news on the injury front is Luke Marshall has recommenced training

Also Lowry is a better 10 than McPhillips and needs to be given his head at some time, as some on here have asked for

Having said that I would have had Lyttle starting and Ludik at 15
Sorry to say it but Kernohan just hasn't got it

I'd have thought Hume was ahead of Cave at this point too? Or maybe they feel they need his leadership or something.

I think that is the reasoning.
Need an old hand at 13 given we have a poor back three

geoff999rugby wrote:Balacoune is injured, I suspect McPhillips is as well seeing as he is not on the bench
Our injury list is pretty long at the moment
Good news on the injury front is Luke Marshall has recommenced training

Also Lowry is a better 10 than McPhillips and needs to be given his head at some time, as some on here have asked for

Having said that I would have had Lyttle starting and Ludik at 15
Sorry to say it but Kernohan just hasn't got it

Lowry has the potential to be a better 10 than McP but as yet hasn't had much opportunity to prove himself as a flyhalf, whereas McPhillips showed last season he is perfectly capable (and looked at least as good as Burns).

Can't see how Kernoghan "just hasn't got it"? He did well for Ulster A last year, and put in some good early season performances dropped in at the deep end to the senior team. He has size, pace and displayed a maturity on the pitch beyond his 19 years, (reminds me a lot of Trimble who definitely 'had it'!).

Stockdale,
Gilroy (whose future is uncertain) ,
Baloucoune,
Lyttle (if he has a run free of injury),
Faddes (if he comes)
Sexton

will all be ahead of Kernohan next year.

That, probably means he will be 5th/6th in the pecking order for a wing squad.
That is a squad player nothing more

As to Lowry he has to start somewhere.
I get the impression he moved ahead of McPhillips in the New Year - selection since then confirms that

McPhillips seems just not to be fancied, he wasn't selected for a game recently everyone assumed he was injured then he turned out for Hinch on the Saturday

I not sure he is not fancied - simply the reality he is considered 3rd best for Fly Half.
My remarks re Kernohan may seem harsh but again the reality is he will only ever be a squad player.
To get where we need to be we will employ players with more potential

I get his place in the pecking order but given that Burns on one leg was preferred over Lowry who didn't seem to be completely trusted and McPhillips is further back it's not a great outlook for him, isn't his contract up at the end of the season too?

Kernohan is in that Scholes/Allen mould for me, not a world beater but a player capable of stepping in and doing a job when needed and knows where the try line is

For me Lyttle is in the Allen mould - too small and not fast enough to make up. Kernohan could be in the Arnold mould and doesn't look physically out of place even though he is still a teenager. He has shown enough in his outings so far to deserve this start.

O'Sullivan has great hands.

Great advert for the Pro14 this.

Ulsters handling and execution has been terrible

I really do not understand why we aren't going for the posts. We are only 5 ahead, 1 converted try and we lose, we should be taking points and getting at least more than 1 score ahead

So who won that turnover for us after the counter drive of their maul??

Not been slick or pretty but I guess there’s something to be said for Ulster’s never give in attitude at the death.

Silly mistakes and handling errors pretty worrying though.

Poor Lowry, he may have the skill, but can you really see him taking this kind of physicality more 10-12 more years in pro rugby??