Name your nations side at full strength

In the modern game this is sadly a futile exercise given how high injury rates now are. It's also Boxing Day, I'm still full from yesterday and fancy having a rugby discussion that requires the same level of strenuous thought as watching a Richard Curtis romcom.

1.Mako Vunipola
2.Jamie George
3.Kyle Sinckler
4.Joe Launchbury
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Sam Underhill
7.Tom Curry
8.Billy Vunipola

9.Ben Youngs
10.Owen Farrell

11.Jonny May
12.Henry Slade
13.Jonathan Joseph
14.Elliot Daly
15.Anthony Watson

16.Dylan Hartley
17.Ellis Genge
18.Dan Cole
19.Maro Itoje
20.Mark Wilson
21.Dan Robson
22.George Ford
23.Manu Tuilagi

In terms of weaknesses:

Tighthead is a conundrum. Dan Cole is too slow for the modern international game, but he can consistently scrummage which is more than can be said more the alternatives.

Inside centre is still the long standing issue it has been since Greenwood retired. I think Slade has shown enough (albeit in a drought) to stay in the centres, then JJ is in my opinion our best centre when fit.

Contentious choices I expect to be questioned:

Cokanasiga being left out. I think he's a talent but quite simply think that May, Watson and Daly are even more talented.

Underhill and Tom Curry together in the back row. Two of this England sides weaknesses have been the breakdown and being too passive in fringe defence. Underhilll and Curry are England's best flankers in the tackle and at the breakdown.

Happy holidays to all

1.Mako Vunipola
2.Dylan Hartley
3.Kyle Sinckler
4.Maro Itoje
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Mark Wilson
7.Sam Underhill
8.Billy Vunipola

9.Ben Youngs
10.Owen Farrell

11.Jonny May
12.Ben Te'o
13.Jonathan Joseph
14.Elliot Daly
15.Anthony Watson

16.Jamie George
17.Ellis Genge
18.Harry Williams
19.Joe Launchbury
20.Ted Hill
21.Dan Robson
22.George Ford
23.Manu Tuilagi

Explosive power in the props allows to have the steadier Hartley.

Lawes and Itoje cover all bases as far as locks go, both good carriers in the tight and the loose, excellent lineout operators, tackle for the fun of it, plus both can operate like 6s when required and handle the ball very well in open play.

Wilson swings the 6 shirt for me, Mr. versatile, again great carrier, tackler, more than adequate in the lineout allows a specialist but explosive 6 on the bench.

Slade and JJ are too lightweight for me in midfield, Te'o has always looked good when fit and teams up very well with JJ.

Tempted to put Cockanasiga in there somewhere, but Watson, Daly and May are all proven shear class as is a FIT Manu.

Gone for Ted Hill purely on instinct, my old position and this kid looks to have everything and can be explosive over 20 minutes.

If I were the opposition and had being playing against Mako, Sinckler and the like for 55-60 minutes, the last people I would want to see coming on are players like Genge, Williams, Robson, Manu and Hill. They exemplify the EJ philosophy of finishers that has worked so well when he has had enough players fit to use it.

That bench would put fear into the Wombles.

4.Joe Launchbury
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Sam Underhill
7.Tom Curry
8.Billy Vunipola

What a back 5 that could be! Just concerned about Billy and his porcelain arms.

And jeez do we need JJ back. Maybe paired with OF.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:1.Mako Vunipola
2.Dylan Hartley
3.Kyle Sinckler
4.Maro Itoje
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Mark Wilson
7.Sam Underhill
8.Billy Vunipola

9.Ben Youngs
10.Owen Farrell

11.Jonny May
12.Ben Te'o
13.Jonathan Joseph
14.Elliot Daly
15.Anthony Watson

16.Jamie George
17.Ellis Genge
18.Harry Williams
19.Joe Launchbury
20.Ted Hill
21.Dan Robson
22.George Ford
23.Manu Tuilagi

No Ollie Robinson?

Cockasaniga has to be in or around. He showed that he has that power and directness we are missing.
Johnny May on one wing and Cocka on the other. Offers everything.

Pot Hale wrote:That bench would put fear into the Wombles.

Or leprechauns, perhaps?

king_carlos wrote:In the modern game this is sadly a futile exercise given how high injury rates now are. It's also Boxing Day, I'm still full from yesterday and fancy having a rugby discussion that requires the same level of strenuous thought as watching a Richard Curtis romcom.

1.Mako Vunipola
2.Jamie George
3.Kyle Sinckler
4.Joe Launchbury
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Sam Underhill
7.Tom Curry
8.Billy Vunipola

9.Ben Youngs
10.Owen Farrell

11.Jonny May
12.Henry Slade
13.Jonathan Joseph
14.Elliot Daly
15.Anthony Watson

16.Dylan Hartley
17.Ellis Genge
18.Dan Cole
19.Maro Itoje
20.Mark Wilson
21.Dan Robson
22.George Ford
23.Manu Tuilagi

In terms of weaknesses:

Tighthead is a conundrum. Dan Cole is too slow for the modern international game, but he can consistently scrummage which is more than can be said more the alternatives.

Inside centre is still the long standing issue it has been since Greenwood retired. I think Slade has shown enough (albeit in a drought) to stay in the centres, then JJ is in my opinion our best centre when fit.

Contentious choices I expect to be questioned:

Cokanasiga being left out. I think he's a talent but quite simply think that May, Watson and Daly are even more talented.

Underhill and Tom Curry together in the back row. Two of this England sides weaknesses have been the breakdown and being too passive in fringe defence. Underhilll and Curry are England's best flankers in the tackle and at the breakdown.

Happy holidays to all

Did you mean Merry Christmas?

Barney McGrew did it wrote:4.Joe Launchbury
5.Courtney Lawes
6.Sam Underhill
7.Tom Curry
8.Billy Vunipola

What a back 5 that could be! Just concerned about Billy and his porcelain arms.

And jeez do we need JJ back. Maybe paired with OF.

I suspect JJ is in the 'having a lot to prove' category right now. At his best he was arguably the best center in Europe but I do wonder if his best was short lasting.

Simon Zebo
Andrew Conway
Garry Ringrose
Robbie Henshaw
Jacob Stockdale
Johnny Sexton
Conor Murray
Sean O’Brien
Josh van der Flier
Peter O’Mahony
James Ryan
Devin Toner
Tadgh Furlong
Rory Best
Cian Healy

Niall Scannell
Jack McGrath
Andrew Porter
Iain Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
Kieran Marmion
Joey Carbery
Jordan Larmour

Pot Hale - No CJ Stander is a big call there?

Nor Aki who has probably put himself into the starting side and will be needed vs the SH sides through greater formality.

Perhaps Poth just wants to keepit clean and green? Nought wrong with that.

Aki is not generally a first choice player. Henshaw and Ringrose tend to get selected ahead of him when fit. He has done a lot to change that this year though.

king_carlos wrote:Pot Hale - No CJ Stander is a big call there?

Leaving out Earls and Kearney is a big call too. Both first team guys.

Pot Hale wrote:Simon Zebo
Andrew Conway
Garry Ringrose
Robbie Henshaw
Jacob Stockdale
Johnny Sexton
Conor Murray
Sean O’Brien
Josh van der Flier
Peter O’Mahony
James Ryan
Devin Toner
Tadgh Furlong
Rory Best
Cian Healy

Niall Scannell
Jack McGrath
Andrew Porter
Iain Henderson
Tadgh Beirne
Kieran Marmion
Joey Carbery
Jordan Larmour

Looks about right, Zebo has been playing well

I'm pretty much in agreement with the 1st couple of England teams. But I do think there's a strong possibility of a couple of bolters still.
Vunipola George sinckler
Itoje Launchbury
Shields Underhill
Vunipola
Youngs Farrell
May slade tuilagi cokanasiga
Watson
Genge Hartley Williams
Lawes Simmonds Robson Te'o Daly.
I reckon there's a fair chance for someone like Dombrandt or hill to come through and take that 6 shirt and for Williams to push for inside centre.

Taylorman wrote:Nor Aki who has probably put himself into the starting side and will be needed vs the SH sides through greater formality.

Perhaps Poth just wants to keepit clean and green? Nought wrong with that.

Nah Tman, I’ve got a Kiwi and a Pom in there...  

Pom as in Peter O'Mahony?

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Nor Aki who has probably put himself into the starting side and will be needed vs the SH sides through greater formality.

Perhaps Poth just wants to keepit clean and green? Nought wrong with that.

Nah Tman, I’ve got a Kiwi and a Pom in there...  

Whats the reasoning of Andrew Conway instead of Keith Earls?

maestegmafia wrote:

Looks about right, Zebo has been playing well

Zebo is quite the hit in France - made Midi Olympic's team of 2018 despite only being there for half a season.

Badly missed by Munster - though Haley is beginning to settle now and is good defensively. Might yet make the world cup squad if Lamour's defense doesn't improve.

No convinced Ireland miss Zebo much at all. Both wingers and full back in place are better players.

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Nor Aki who has probably put himself into the starting side and will be needed vs the SH sides through greater formality.

Perhaps Poth just wants to keepit clean and green? Nought wrong with that.

Nah Tman, I’ve got a Kiwi and a Pom in there...  

Whats the reasoning of Andrew Conway instead of Keith Earls?

I like Andrew. He’s spiky. Scores tries. Good-looking. Can play full-back. And, of course, he’s from Leinster...

Collapse2005 wrote:Pom as in Peter O'Mahony?

Nah - he’s POM.

Marmion?

Collapse2005 wrote:Marmion?

There you go.

I’m looking forward to the day when Ireland can field

JOB
COB
TOB
SOB
SOB
Byrne
Byrne
Byrne
Byrne
Byrne
Beirne

In their lineup though. And even a LOC as a prop.

EOS?
Eric O'Sullivan

the-goon wrote:EOS?
Eric O'Sullivan

Oh there’s a lot more:

15 TOH
14 ROM
13 COB
12 JOB
11 AOS
10 TOB
9 HOS

1 COD
2 KOB
3 EOS
4 AOC
5 DOS
6 POM
7 TOD
8 SOB

16
17 LOC
18 TOT
19 SOC
20 SOB
21
22 SOB
23 ROL

Pot Hale wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Nor Aki who has probably put himself into the starting side and will be needed vs the SH sides through greater formality.

Perhaps Poth just wants to keepit clean and green? Nought wrong with that.

Nah Tman, I’ve got a Kiwi and a Pom in there...  

Whats the reasoning of Andrew Conway instead of Keith Earls?

I like Andrew.  He’s spiky.  Scores tries.  Good-looking.  Can play full-back.  And, of course, he’s from Leinster...

I like Andrew as well, but Earls is by a long distance Ireland's best winger. He has it all.

Earls is good but he isnt our best winger "by a long shot". Stockdale is right up there too.

Collapse2005 wrote:Earls is good but he isnt our best winger "by a long shot". Stockdale is right up there too.

Earls is the best all rounder - he doesn't have any weaknesses in his game - under high ball, pace, defence, hitting rucks. Stockdale isn't great under a high ball and he has a bit to learn on his defence.

Yeah but Earls isnt top try scorer in the six nations and European player of the year, nor has he ever scored a grand slam winning try nor a try to beat NZ. I reckon they are both good.

Collapse2005 wrote:Yeah but Earls isnt top try scorer in the six nations and European player of the year, nor has he ever scored a grand slam winning try nor a try to beat NZ. I reckon they are both good.

Stockdale wasn't European Player of the Year in 2018 (Nakarawa was). I think you maybe are thinking of the public voted Six Nations Player of the Tournament maybe (which really doesn't count) bearing in mind that Sexton was a nominee and he won World Player of the Year. Earls won the Players' Player of the Year last May and Stockdale got the Young Player of the Year (and that was just after the Six Nations).

Stockdale is very good at going forward, Earls is a better all round player though.

Earls is solid and gives his all, but isn’t much more than that. I think he’d struggle to get into the top 20 in Europe in his position. Mind you, he has improved a bit since his ‘worst Lion ever’ performances against SA scratch sides. He let down the British Isles on those days.

On that tour alone Ugo Monye was a worse player than Earls. Yes I meant the six nations player of the year which is in my view better than the European player of the year award. It may have been voted for but he equaled the most tries in a championship so fully deserved.

Monye was significantly better than Earls. Heck, even O’Gara had a better tour than Earls and he was terrible, gifting the series to SA through stupidity and cowardice in the tackle. Only Best has had worse tours than Earls. Makes you wonder if some Irish players have been trying to sabotage the Lions over the years. Notoriously bad mixers with the other nations in the British Isles.

Monye went on to get about 5 England caps. He was poor enough, Earls is in the 70s and not out, much better player. Ollie Smith was probably the worst Lion ever I can remember in '05. However O'Gara didnt lose that tour in 09. Sadly Vickery's 10 scrum penalties in the first test lost us the tour before we ever had a chance.

Any Scotland fans fancy weighing in with a full strength side?

1.Dell
2.McInally
3.Nel
4.J Gray
5.R Gray
6.Barclay
7.Watson
8.Wilson

9.Laidlaw
10.Russell

11.Seymour
12.Dunbar
13.Jones
14.Kinghorn
15.Hogg

16.Brown
17.Allan
18.Berghan
19.Gilchrist
20.Bradbury
21.Horne
22.Hastings
23.Maitland

That's pretty tasty playing the style of rugby that Townsend coaches.

Could Bennett or Zander Fagerson force their way back in after injury?

Dunbar being out of favour with Rennie could create an opening in the centres?

Could Jamie Ritchie hold down a spot in a competitive back row?

Cyril wrote:Earls is solid and gives his all, but isn’t much more than that. I think he’d struggle to get into the top 20 in Europe in his position. Mind you, he has improved a bit since his ‘worst Lion ever’ performances against SA scratch sides. He let down the British Isles on those days.

Cyril wrote:Monye was significantly better than Earls. Heck, even O’Gara had a better tour than Earls and he was terrible, gifting the series to SA through stupidity and cowardice in the tackle. Only Best has had worse tours than Earls. Makes you wonder if some Irish players have been trying to sabotage the Lions over the years. Notoriously bad mixers with the other nations in the British Isles.

Cyril - the term British Isles is not used in Ireland - and some might think you’re deliberately using it and your comments about Irish players generally to cause offence and be provocative.  Could you remove them, please?  Thanks.

Just report it if you’re offended, though I hardly think disagreeing about geography is grounds to ask for something to be removed. As for my comments on the players. It’s just my view and not offensive either. I just happen to disagree with Guns’ opinion. Still, report away if you need to have any of the above removed.

This guy has gone from clever WUM to very bitter troll.

I'm actually quite enjoying the transition and watching the mask which his bigotry has been hiding behind start to slip.

Are you talking about Pot and his ‘English b@stards’ songs that he posts on here?

Think he's talking about you deliberately stirring Cyril.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think he's talking about you deliberately stirring Cyril.

Yep. Spot on 7-1/2. Cyril took me to task recently for a phrasing that I used in a once-off ditty and, at his request, I changed the wording so as not to offend him.

I’m simply asking that he reciprocate in kind rather than appear to be a hypocrite in his stance.

There’s a pretty big difference between those two posts. I’ve not called any Irish people ‘b@stards’ or anything offensive.

Cyril wrote:Just report it if you’re offended, though I hardly think disagreeing about geography is grounds to ask for something to be removed. As for my comments on the players. It’s just my view and not offensive either. I just happen to disagree with Guns’ opinion. Still, report away if you need to have any of the above removed.

Cyril - can I remind you of what you said to me the other week when I posted a ditty about the Six Nations with a line that you deemed offensive to you:

“Pot, please keep your xenophobia to yourself, via sport, poetry or otherwise. There’s enough animosity on here without you coming out with the tired, ‘English b**stards’ shoite. Get yourself on a nationalist website if you want to spout that rubbish or get lost.”

I amended the line and made clear my honestly-held views on English people; it was not my intention to offend any English person.

Here’s what I could say to your ongoing comments about Irish and Irish players that I, and it would appear, others have pointed out to you previously:

Cyril, please keep your xenophobia to yourself, via sport, geography or otherwise. There’s enough animosity on here without you coming out with the tired, ‘Irish’ shoite. Get yourself on a UKIP website if you want to spout that rubbish or get lost.


See how that works?

So maybe do yourself and the rest of us a favour and cut out the obvious troll remarks - not needed and you’re more than capable of debating and having a bit of banter without resorting to them.

Cyril wrote:There’s a pretty big difference between those two posts. I’ve not called any Irish people ‘b@stards’ or anything offensive.

Cyril you do let your mask slip fairly regularly lately. Just be honest about it. Its obvious you dont like Ireland.

Where have I said I don’t like the Irish? Seems strange that I get accused of that when an Irish poster talks about ‘English b@stards’. Of course, that was just a joke though, just like all the other similar songs you hear that we’re told don’t get sung any longer.

Cyril wrote:Where have I said I don’t like the Irish? Seems strange that I get accused of that when an Irish poster talks about ‘English b@stards’. Of course, that was just a joke though, just like all the other similar songs you hear that we’re told don’t get sung any longer.

What are you so bitter about? Did someone from Ireland do something to you once upon a time?

Not bitter at all. It’s just a forum. Stop taking everything so seriously. You’re such a joyless, po-faced, serious character. Are you this much fun in real life or is this this drab, washed-out persona reserved for online?

Just admit it. What happened to you?