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Champions Cup Round 5

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Post by Brendan on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:03 pm

Any news, games, teams etc

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Post by Brendan on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:05 pm

Ver surprised with the Glaws v Munster match, thought it would be much closer.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:11 pm

Munster has them tied up in knots and strangled them. Tactically it was a coaching master class but the players executed brilliantly. Having Murray, Carbury , Scannell and Farrell for the first time made a huge difference.

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:12 pm

A few thoughts on Gloucester vs Munster:

Gloucester:
- Balmain hugely impressive, somewhat telling however that Gloucester still lost the scrum battle despite his heroics.  
- Gloucester pack generally very poor, second row and backrow lost their battles (only Ludlow was decent in my view) and Walker at hooker had a mare.  
- Cipriani had a good game despite being behind a beaten pack and with outside backs who looked clueless (see next point)
- Sharples and Hudson were unbelievably poor.  Murray dismantled Hudson with box kicks, see Sharples tackling for Scannell's try and I'm not sure I heard Thorley mentioned.

Munster:
- Now seem to have the half backs they've been missing.  Murray has been the best around at 9 for a while, but Carbery is a different class to the likes of Keatley.  If Munster have been missing a 10....they have one now.
- Pack completely outplayed Gloucester, particularly Beirne and O'Mahony
- Props are good, but could have turned the screw more when Poite clearly had them holding the upper hand in the scrum.
- Earls should in my opinion, and this is very subjective admittedly, lose his place with Ireland to Conway.
- Not convinced by Haley, he is bitty and definitely not Will Addison.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head after a bottle of red and a few single malts this Friday eve.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:20 pm

More like meth artful. First of all after the first two penalties for Munster in the scrum poite refused to fully penalise glaws again despite Munster running over them on a couple of occasions. As for Conway over earls it’s an opinion that isn’t wildly mad but still rather funny. Put it this way let’s say both their tries were set up by another player (Holland and Carbery) however in terms of attack who was the winger making the break and also you might note the defensive work of earls in the lead up to the glaws try in the second half that was scored on the other wing if you will recall.

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 11 Jan 2019, 10:30 pm

Hello friend, firstly I assure you that I do not smoke meth.

In all sincerity in answering your points:

The first time he did give a penalty, the second time a free kick for an early engage. I would have though a free kick for the first early engage fairly standard. In terms of Munster running over them, there were a couple in which Archer seemed to go to ground, those are the ones which Munster conceded penalties on. I must admit I am far from a scrum expert, but Morgan's complaints of scrum wheeling by the Munster back five did fall on deaf ears. Poite may not be the best scrum ref out there, but it is overstated in how deficient he is here. I don't think he got a lot wrong at scrum time.

In terms of Earls vs Conway, don't get me wrong as I recognize how good Earls is as an all rounder. He is the best all rounder that Ireland have on the wing and we have traditionally gone for all rounders out wide rather than out and out attackers like Conway. I like him despite writing him off earlier in his career when a lot of Munster fans championed him as a 13. But Schmidt is starting to take more chances with his wingers hence the rise of Stockdale. There may be defensive deficiencies there, but where would we be without Stockdale's trys in the last 12 months? Hence my emphasis on it being subjective, it's comparable to Kearney vs Larmour. Do we want to be conservative or progressive. I imagine Schmidt will go conservative against serious competition but I hope to see Conway against the likes of Italy in the upcoming 6N.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 8:43 am

Conway outplayed Earls in that game, but overall doesn't have as complete a game.

Earls makes noticeably good decisions in defence, but those in attack are not always pf the same quality. He made a poor decision not to back himself 10m out after a clean break preferring to attempt a low percentage pass. Maybe subconsciously he still harbours the thought that he is a centre rather than a finisher? Those moments of self doubt have punctuated his career stopping him being elevated from a very good player to an all-time great one.

In contrast Conway always backs himself, which is a good trait for a wing, but less so for a fullback. His kicking game is also below fullback standard. JVG must think the same or he wouldn't have recruited Hayley?

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Post by clivemcl on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 1:03 pm

So Cian Healey tackles a player in the air and wins a knock on. The officiating of the tackle in the air is all over the place. Commentators didn’t even make mention of it. What???

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 1:41 pm

I’ve muted the commentary. Jamie Hasplip doesn’t believe there’s another team out there today
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Post by Brendan on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 2:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:I’ve muted the commentary. Jamie Hasplip doesn’t believe there’s another team out there today

I don't mind having players on at halftime but some doing commentary need to remember they aren't on the team any more and can say thing that are true against former teammates. I hate comemators who try to defend their team against logic

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Post by clivemcl on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 2:15 pm

https://i.servimg.com/u/f69/17/56/29/63/4d7bb210.jpg

Some refs think tackle in air laws don’t apply in black and white, but seem to only consider who takes the heavier knock.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 2:45 pm

Leinster missing 5 main players (I think) but doing well. Their B team is good as most Pro 14 teams know

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 2:51 pm

I'm surprised the TMO didn't seek a review for the no arm tackle on the try line by Toner. He's a lucky boy he should have been in the bin.

The physicality and intensity exhibited by Leinster today and Munster last night is scary. The breakdown is like warfare. I can see the European trophy staying in Ireland at the end of the season.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 3:10 pm

The best things that have happened to the Pro14 over the last few years has been coaches like Cockerill and Lancaster has toughened up the Pro14 defences which has resulted in everyone having to up their game.  Add in the backrows of the top 5 in each conference who are looking to turn over constantly and are a high standard of 7s, improved by people like Pivac which again has caused others to up their game.

Best thing that happened to Pro14 teams was top 7 only get into the Champions Cup. Means every season 3 good teams will miss out.  It's why teams like Edinburgh were able to come in and not do to bad when they do get in.  It is possible (though unlikely) that the best Welsh team will only get in via the Champs Cup playoff.

Though Munster and Leinster are still top dogs in the physical stakes in the Pro 14

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 4:39 pm

Stockdale is a bit scary at this stage. I mean, he just seems to get on to the end of stuff like the ball is attracted to him like a honing missile.

Best wing in the world across the last season at both club and international level along with Ioane.

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:09 pm

Massive.  We are back to being a team that can beat the best around if we play well enough.  McFarland is making a serious name for himself, especially given the very difficult circumstances which he inherited.

Jared Payne's defensive coaching also worth a shout, very very strong.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:11 pm

Great shout-out to Connacht too winning at home with a last-minute penalty against Sale. Friend has them motoring nicely.
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:21 pm

Racing were error strewn today. Some excellent defending from Ulster and again great clear out work from an Irish side (I remember years back when Tigers used to do that Sad ). Some work to do in attack but there's enough flair there to cause problems. Burns and Addison look decent acquisitions from the summer.

Ulster got a break with the officials overlooking a forward pass leading to a try but sometimes you get those breaks and sometimes you don't.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:33 pm

So we'll done Ulster.

I hope this doesnt happen but we could see a quarters of Sarries v Glasgow, Racing v Ulster and Leinster v Toulouse. It would suck if it does happen

Racing 25/26
Sarries 22-28
Leinster 24/25
Toulouse 21/22
Glasgow 19-22
Ulster 19-22


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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 5:55 pm

Wow the BT sport all Pro14 based commentary seem to know next to nothing about the current Tigers team. It's like listening to a local radio station.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:23 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Wow the BT sport all Pro14 based commentary seem to know next to nothing about the current Tigers team. It's like listening to a local radio station.

Do they not have their premership panel to have pulled someone

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:28 pm

I thought they'd have someone. So far it's been a 40 minute discussion of the Scarlets side with the occasional gem like "it's 19 year old Heyes on the tight head side, getting a chance to show what he can do" (despite having played fairly regularly as Cole's understudy) "Heyes former England under 20". They'd literally just pointed out he's 19 it doesn't take a genius to work out that he's still an England under 20 and any research pre game would have told them he'll again be an England under 20.

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Post by The Oracle on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:37 pm

How’s the Scarlets pack doing? It’s extremely makeshift in the back 5. Those locks don’t get many starts and the back row has two non-regular flankers and Ken Owens the hooker playing number 8!
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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:41 pm

The Oracle wrote:How’s the Scarlets pack doing? It’s extremely makeshift in the back 5. Those locks don’t get many starts and the back row has two non-regular flankers and Ken Owens the hooker playing number 8!

Tigers have named pretty much a second choice pack and haven't looked up to much this season anyway. Scarlets are winning the game at the breakdown so the Scarlets pack is doing the job.

Thought the Scarlets might fancy the scrum but they've had no joy there at all.

Could end up a very one sided score.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 6:51 pm

Joe Ford is one of the worse flyhalfs I've ever seen in a Tigers shirt. Murphy throwing into the towel bringing that donkey on.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 7:13 pm

3 different Evans on the scoresheet

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Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 7:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:3 different Evans on the scoresheet

Apparently Jones is very last year Wink

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 7:55 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 different Evans on the scoresheet

Apparently Jones is very last year Wink

Very. Even Tigers got an Evans on the scoresheet (probably our best player and also the least impressed with scoring).

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Post by Sin é on Sat 12 Jan 2019, 10:48 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Conway outplayed Earls in that game, but overall doesn't have as complete a game.

Not sure about that. Both played very well, but Earls try saving tackle was incredible, don't know how he did it (and the he scored a try 6 minutes later down the other end).

Earls makes noticeably good decisions in defence, but those in attack are not always pf the same quality. He made a poor decision not to back himself 10m out after a clean break preferring to attempt a low percentage pass. Maybe subconsciously he still harbours the thought that he is a centre rather than a finisher? Those moments of self doubt have punctuated his career stopping him being elevated from a very good player to an all-time great one.

Earls is a brilliant finisher and great footwork. The Joe Schmidt mantra would be ''to hold onto the ball'' and don't be selfish. Earls is a much more rounded player than any of them.

In contrast Conway always backs himself, which is a good trait for a wing, but less so for a fullback. His kicking game is also below fullback standard. JVG must think the same or he wouldn't have recruited Hayley?

Conway doesn't play enough at fullback and I think most coaches prefer a tall fullback anyway. Haley is a very good defender though. I think for Ireland though, I'd be a bit worried (and Joe Schmidt would too) with a back three of Stockdale, Conway and Lamour defending!



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Post by theslosty on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 12:29 pm

I've always been a huge fan of Earls but it's hard to leave Conway out the form he's in at the moment. Unlikely to happen but wouldn't mind seeing an Ireland back 3 of Stockdale Earls and Conway at some stage.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 2:10 pm

Exeter get the BP try in their match against Castres.

If they can hold on and win the game, as they should, then it will be a live game against Munster next weekend. They could yet leapfrog Munster, go through and put them out. A long shot but possible. Either way it seems likely that only one team going through from this group.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Jan 2019, 3:59 pm

Still think it's odd that there's a red card given swinging arm to head yet the ref gives absolutely no thought for the need for devoto (I think) to go for a hia. The rules there for player safety but officials seem so distracted by technicalities they forget the reason for the law.

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