6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February

by **George Carlin** Mon 04 Feb 2019, 8:42 am

First topic message reminder :

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 Scot_f10

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 Irelan10

SCOTLAND v IRELAND
9 February 2019
KO: 14:15
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gaüzère (France) and Alexandre Ruiz (France)
Television match official: Rowan Kitt (England)

Live on [paddy TV and jock TV]

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
67 Won 62
6 Drawn 6
62 Lost 67
1,415 Points 1,525

B. Recent Form

10 March 2018
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28–8 to Ireland

4 February 2017
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
27–22 to Scotland

19 March 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
35 – 25 to Ireland

15 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 22 to Ireland

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 Scotla10

[TBC]

IRELAND

[TBC]

by eirebilly Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:52 am

Question is, do Scotland adapt the same approach as England and try to out muscle Ireland or do they play their natural game?

Not so sure that Scotland have the power to outmuscle Ireland but the have the back row to challenge at the breakdown. Playing a more open game may suit Ireland better than Scotland.

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 8:09 am

I don't see our game changing too much - given our injuries I don't think we'll be able to out muscle Ireland. Even with a fully fit team out we'd struggle.

by eirebilly Wed 06 Feb 2019, 8:16 am

That last 15-20mins against Italy must also be a worry for Scotland. There is no way they can afford to do that against Ireland.

I actually do not see that much between Scotland and Ireland, think it could be a close high scoring match.

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 8:42 am

In a strange way, in terms of the rest of the tournament I'm glad that happened as opposed to us running away with it in the last 15 minutes (which I think we would have done if Hogg's wonder try hadn't been incorrectly disallowed).

Under Townsend we have been guilty of believing our own hype on a few occasions, and while everyone would have been under no illusions about Italy versus Ireland, having a real negative end to the game will keep them grounded and give them a real work on.

I'm also not too worried about it showing a weakness in the defence - we were 30 points up and had brought on a lot of inexperienced players by that point, and we just switched off. Can't imagine we'll do that against any other team in the 6N, plus our bench should hopefully be stronger.

by EST Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:01 am

Yeah, although I was annoyed about how easily we switched off, I think RDW is right in that it will keep the team switched on this week during training.

Regarding how to beat Ireland, well I don't think we will get very far trying to out muscle them - we don't have the likes of Billy and Mako to dominate the gain line. We had most of our joy in 2017 by using Finn's excellent passing game to get outside the Irish rush defence, usually to Hogg. We actually got a lot of change going wide last year as well, except we managed to fluff some very standard 2 v 1's. With Finn, Hoggy, Johnson and even Kinghorn (if he plays), we have four very good distributors, so I don't expect that tactic to change too much.

What might be slightly different, is that I think Hogg and Finn will kick more to the corners - they certainly did against Italy. With Toner out, they may feel that they can get some change out of competing against the Irish line out (Toolis has the most line out steals in Europe apparently). Other than that, I think they will need to be inventive, a bit like England's opening play of the game, make a real mess of the breakdown to try and slow down the Irish machine, and deal with Irelands kicking game - simples.

by eirebilly Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:10 am

Although Toner is big in the line out for Ireland, James Ryan and POM are excellent there so I do not see Scotland gaining much other than parity there.

Kicking may be the most important aspect of this game especially as Ireland's back 3 looked poor at gathering and returning kicks against England.

by **rodders** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:29 am

eirebilly wrote:Although Toner is big in the line out for Ireland, James Ryan and POM are excellent there so I do not see Scotland gaining much other than parity there.

Kicking may be the most important aspect of this game especially as Ireland's back 3 looked poor at gathering and returning kicks against England.

Yes but Toner calls the lineout, Roux will be calling it on Saturday so it is definitely an area Scotland will target.

To be honest not sure how I feel about this one. Scotland definitely have the capacity to give us trouble out wide if the game breaks up. Our kicking will have to be a lot more accurate as Russel and Hogg could tear us apart.

Nel is a big loss as it should give us an edge in the scrum, so I do think if we keep it tight and structured we can grind them up front.

Ireland really need a big performance here, a bonus point win but can see Scotland winning this unfortunately.

by **George Carlin** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:50 am

Love these threads. Let's just do an espresso shot and get real about a couple of things, however:

1. There is no universe in which Scotland are favourites for this match. Scotland are nearly 8 WR ranking points behind Ireland (81.84 compared to 89.37). That is officially 'sh!tloads'. 8 points is the margin which separates Scotland at 5th in the rankings from Italy at 15th in the rankings. It's a mahoosive gap and it's there for a reason.

2. Scotland cannot possibly use the same gameplan as England. To do that you would also need the same players.

3. Scotland are probably missing their first choice 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the pack. It matters.

by Scottrf Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:28 am

George Carlin wrote:Love these threads. Let's just do an espresso shot and get real about a couple of things, however:

1. There is no universe in which Scotland are favourites for this match. Scotland are nearly 8 WR ranking points behind Ireland (81.84 compared to 89.37). That is officially 'sh!tloads'. 8 points is the margin which separates Scotland at 5th in the rankings from Italy at 15th in the rankings. It's a mahoosive gap and it's there for a reason.

2. Scotland cannot possibly use the same gameplan as England. To do that you would also need the same players.

3. Scotland are probably missing their first choice 3, 4, 5, 7 and 8 in the pack. It matters.

Absolutely. There are levels and Ireland are pretty much joint best team in the world, they haven't become poor overnight. Scotland are a couple of levels below.

by jimbopip Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:30 am

As I said earlier, we have no chance. By the way, being top after the first round; does that disqualify us from being Dark Horses? Whistle

Everything GC said is patently true, which for a blood sucking parasite legal bod is quite an achievement, and should give the Irish team great heart when Joe Schmidt reads it out at training later today. As he surely will.

In the Second World War the Wehrmacht had a tactic called "probing by combat" (which pretty much sums up the average Glaswegian's honeymoon) whereby instead of sending one or two soldiers to scout out the enemy's defences they would send in a platoon and start a fight (again, a wedding reception I attended at the social club above Penilee bus station springs to mind) thereby tricking the enemy into revealing their true strength. I just wonder if either of the coaches will have the World Cup in their minds and be looking to learn as much as they can while holding back as much as they can. No as ridiculous as it seems: about a year before the 1966 World Cup Alf Ramsey played a 4-3-3 formation for the first time, liked what he saw and chose never to play it again until the tournament began. Which they then went on to win while everyone else wondered where he got the idea of playing that formation from.
Now, I can't see either coach settling for a lossbut the defeat and the injuries suffered by Ireland could well allow JS to really shake up the team; a rocket to some who are "rested" and an opportunity for fringe players to get their Japanese phrase books ordered. Toonie however; playing at home, needing to back up the win against a "weaker" side, with only about five fit forwards will probably have to play his best XV possible.
So...the strongest Scotland side available at home against a "possibles" Irish team.... Ireland by 20. picard

by **rodders** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:35 am

Hmm nice attempt at cute hoorism but Scotland are definitely not a couple of levels below.

Player wise they match up well to the other home nations just are a bit more lacking in depth due to having only 2 professional teams.

Winning away from home and a bit more consistency are probably the key issues in terms of being title contenders but I don't think they are far off at all.

If Sexton and Murray aren't a lot more accurate on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could be in for a tough afternoon.

by No9 Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:44 am

IMO, there is only one winner in this game.

I know I'll be slated for this, but I really cant see Scotland winning another game this year.

by EST Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:11 am

No9 wrote:IMO, there is only one winner in this game.

I know I'll be slated for this, but I really cant see Scotland winning another game this year.

We could easily lose the remaining four games, although I can also see us beating Wales and France - neither of whom played particularly well in the opening game - such is the nature of the competition. England at Twickenham is very likely a bridge too far.

by **George Carlin** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:13 am

jimbopip wrote:As I said earlier, we have no chance. By the way, being top after the first round; does that disqualify us from being Dark Horses?

Everything GC said is patently true, which for a blood sucking parasite legal bod is quite an achievement, and should give the Irish team great heart when Joe Schmidt reads it out at training later today. As he surely will.

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 Barste10

by No9 Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:26 am

EST wrote:
No9 wrote:IMO, there is only one winner in this game.

I know I'll be slated for this, but I really cant see Scotland winning another game this year.

We could easily lose the remaining four games, although I can also see us beating Wales and France - neither of whom played particularly well in the opening game - such is the nature of the competition. England at Twickenham is very likely a bridge too far.

Agreed, was just my opinion. Anyone can beat anyone in this competition. Which makes the 6 Nations the best comp in the world.

by jimbopip Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:27 am

GC

I knew you were an old Private Eye reader. This may come as something of a shock but I was once featured in Pseud's Corner.

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:48 am

Scot vs Ire - Heart says Scotland, Head says Ireland.

It is possible for us to win this game. Not likely, but possible.

Factors for a possible Scotland win:
Scotland are at home
Scotland won the corresponding fixture 2 years ago
Ireland weren’t on form last week

That being said. As GC pointed out, Ireland are dramatically above us in the ranking points as they are a consistently good team. Last week could either show Ireland are beatable by teams other than the Blackness, or it could galvanise Ireland into a producing a backlash performance to destroy Scotland.

In other fixtures, We should beat Wales at home, we could beat France away, we're unlikey to win at Twickers.

The 6Ns really is a close one as if we do manage to beat Ireland at the weekend, we're off to play against a mentally fragile France team. If we beat them, we're facing Wales at home (again we won the corresponding fixture two years ago). And if we win that, we could be facing England for the championship.

Now, not to be accused of being a deluded bam, as possible it is for us to win the next three games, it's also possible we lose the next three.

Momentum is everything and going to twickers on the back of straight wins is a different job to going there on the back of straight losses.

by jimbopip Wed 06 Feb 2019, 11:54 am

We'd have more chance going there on the back of three straight losses. Especially if they're going for the Grand Slam. Sad but true.

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:26 pm

jimbopip wrote:We'd have more chance going there on the back of three straight losses. Especially if they're going for the Grand Slam. Sad but true.

The Wales vs England game the same day we're playing France will have a huge impact on this and the England vs France game this weekend will have a huge impact on the Wales vs England game.

I can see England beating France and then England and Wales will be facing each other (I'm assuming Wales will beat Italy) having both won two games each.

I can see Wales winning against england but then losing to us the following week and then the championship is wide open again with either us or Ireland being in the frame depending on who wins at Murryfield on Sat.

It could come down to bonus points (or as often what happens, who humps Italy by the most - which sadly we failed to capitalsie on last week)

by **George Carlin** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 12:57 pm

Tattie - what are you talking about? We never beat the bloody Welsh.

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:00 pm

We did last time we played then at home...

by Collapse2005 Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:11 pm

tigertattie wrote:Scot vs Ire - Heart says Scotland, Head says Ireland.

It is possible for us to win this game. Not likely, but possible.

Factors for a possible Scotland win:
Scotland are at home
Scotland won the corresponding fixture 2 years ago
Ireland weren’t on form last week

That being said. As GC pointed out, Ireland are dramatically above us in the ranking points as they are a consistently good team. Last week could either show Ireland are beatable by teams other than the Blackness, or it could galvanise Ireland into a producing a backlash performance to destroy Scotland.

In other fixtures, We should beat Wales at home, we could beat France away, we're unlikey to win at Twickers.

The 6Ns really is a close one as if we do manage to beat Ireland at the weekend, we're off to play against a mentally fragile France team. If we beat them, we're facing Wales at home (again we won the corresponding fixture two years ago). And if we win that, we could be facing England for the championship.

Now, not to be accused of being a deluded bam, as possible it is for us to win the next three games, it's also possible we lose the next three.

Momentum is everything and going to twickers on the back of straight wins is a different job to going there on the back of straight losses.

Ireland's record in Murrayfield over the last ten years isn't great. However, to counter balance that I think Ireland go there this year absolutely desperate for a win.

by Pot Hale Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:13 pm

Look - I cant make it clearer. Scotland are going to win on Saturday - that’s the end of the matter. If you even try to attempt to lose, there will be consequences....

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:16 pm

Not sure if I'm happy with all this 'you're gonna win', 'nah you're gonna win' - where's all the YOU'RE CRAP AND WE'RE GOING TO SMASH YOU chat??

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:17 pm

RDW wrote:We did last time we played then at home...

What Flounder Boy said!

Imagine beating the Irish (as we're at home)
then beating the French (as they are iffy to say the least)
then beating the Welsh (as we're at home)

Rocking up to Twickers to actually try and win the bloomin thing!

But yes, it is much more Scottish-like if we lose to Ireland and Wales and end up rocking up at twickers with the intent to ruin thier grand slam (it's not like we've never done that before). This is part of the Scottish Sporting psyche that I hate and it mostly stems from the football bams where as a nation we'd rather see England doing badly than see us doing well!

by carpet baboon Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:18 pm

Your crap were gonna smash you, ye unwashed barsteward
Is that better?????

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:20 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Your crap were gonna smash you, ye unwashed barsteward
Is that better?????

Enough of the unwashed chat - I'm not from Glasgow!

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 1:22 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Your crap were gonna smash you, ye unwashed barsteward
Is that better?????

Better, but RDW isnt a Glasgow fan so you can't throw accusations around of his uncleanliness

JINX (now he can't speak till someone says(types) his name)

by **George Carlin** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:00 pm

RDW wrote:We did last time we played then at home...

And before that, wasn't 2007 a good year?

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 2:54 pm

George Carlin wrote:
RDW wrote:We did last time we played then at home...
And before that, wasn't 2007 a good year?

Possibly, but he who shall not be named can't reply as hes currently jinxed Smile

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:25 pm

We're not 12 year old girls.....

by bsando Wed 06 Feb 2019, 3:33 pm

jimbopip wrote:GC I knew you were an old Private Eye reader. This may come as something of a shock but I was once featured in Pseud's Corner.

My late Grandfather used to write for the eye in the 90’s and 00’s. A small column under the pseudonym “Old Trout”.

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 60c0ce10

6N 2019: Scotland v Ireland, 9 February - Page 3 B7289d10

by IanBru Wed 06 Feb 2019, 4:05 pm

tigertattie wrote: This is part of the Scottish Sporting psyche that I hate and it mostly stems from the football bams where as a nation we'd rather see England doing badly than see us doing well!

I agree with this so much, and yet I know I'm guilty of it quite often.

She Who Must Not Be Named and I were chatting on the train up to Edinburgh on Saturday about the Duncan Hodge game in 2000, and it occurred to me that I mention winning that game far more often than the championship in 1999.

Is it possible that I get more misty-eyed about a season where we lose to everyone except England (but deny them the Grand Slam) than I do about winning the championship (while losing to England)? If so (and it's a fair cop), there's something seriously wrong with my psychological state!

by EWT Spoons Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:04 pm

chat is that Maitland will be starting, with Kinghorn benching

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:07 pm

Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

by carpet baboon Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:18 pm

RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

I would definitely rather Maitland starting than kinghorn. But then I'm Irish so I would

by Eejit Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:21 pm

RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

We need to nip this one quickly before the luvvies take things out of hand and stain their red cords. The lad played really well and he took his tries well, but lets be clear that they were wingers tries. He may have been picked as man of the match, but we scored those tries because Dancer was on song and we were playing a debuting 12 that has the potential to be the complete package.

Kinghorn has bags of potential. Maitland is a British Lion that is first choice for the best (or second best) club side on planet earth.

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:43 pm

Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

We need to nip this one quickly before the luvvies take things out of hand and stain their red cords. The lad played really well and he took his tries well, but lets be clear that they were wingers tries. He may have been picked as man of the match, but we scored those tries because Dancer was on song and we were playing a debuting 12 that has the potential to be the complete package.

Kinghorn has bags of potential. Maitland is a British Lion that is first choice for the best (or second best) club side on planet earth.

I would have brought Maitland back in but for Seymour!

by Pot Hale Wed 06 Feb 2019, 5:50 pm

RDW wrote:Not sure if I'm happy with all this 'you're gonna win', 'nah you're gonna win' - where's all the YOU'RE CRAP AND WE'RE GOING TO SMASH YOU chat??

Can’t have that - all the new British moderators will be down on us quicker than a bricksit.

by Eejit Wed 06 Feb 2019, 6:03 pm

RDW wrote:
Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

We need to nip this one quickly before the luvvies take things out of hand and stain their red cords. The lad played really well and he took his tries well, but lets be clear that they were wingers tries. He may have been picked as man of the match, but we scored those tries because Dancer was on song and we were playing a debuting 12 that has the potential to be the complete package.

Kinghorn has bags of potential. Maitland is a British Lion that is first choice for the best (or second best) club side on planet earth.

I would have brought Maitland back in but for Seymour!

Naw you and Tattie would conspire to have Kinghorn at FB with Damian Hoyland & Darcy Graham in you couple of corduroyed fanatics! Might even find a place for Dougie Fife warning

on the bench.

Truth is it doesn't matter which two of Maits, Tam or King Blarehorn plays as they are all quality international wingers. (Though Seymour absolutely pasting Campagnaro causing a turnover at the weekend was a thing of beauty). None of it matters if we end up getting marmalised up front and at the set piece.

by EWT Spoons Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:40 pm

RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

Scottish rugby blog, they're hit and miss so not sure about it's reliability, but they were right with their calls last weekend

by Eejit Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:42 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

Scottish rugby blog, they're hit and miss so not sure about it's reliability, but they were right with their calls last weekend

I tried listening to their podcast a few times but it sounded like it was being recorded in outer space.

Also it was complete bumf. If I want baseless rugby nonsense I just come here!

by 123456789. Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:49 pm

I understand why Kinghorn has been left out if I'm honest, he's not played a huge number of games on the wing and will face an ungodly aerial bombardment. Seymour and Maitland are both very experienced players who have trained with and played with Murray and Maitland.

It does look like Scotland will have five Lions in their backline and 0 test starts. The fact there's likely to be 5 Lions in the backs and 1 in the forwards rather typifies Scotland's current situation (there is the added caveat that if a squad were picked tomorrow by someone other than Woodward or Gatland then I expect at least McInally, Nel and Watson would be in with a shout)

by **RDW** Wed 06 Feb 2019, 7:54 pm

Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:
Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:Who is giving this chat?

Hattrick and voted player of the weekend (harsh on Vunipola), but can't keep his place!

We need to nip this one quickly before the luvvies take things out of hand and stain their red cords. The lad played really well and he took his tries well, but lets be clear that they were wingers tries. He may have been picked as man of the match, but we scored those tries because Dancer was on song and we were playing a debuting 12 that has the potential to be the complete package.

Kinghorn has bags of potential. Maitland is a British Lion that is first choice for the best (or second best) club side on planet earth.

I would have brought Maitland back in but for Seymour!
Naw you and Tattie would conspire to have Kinghorn at FB with Damian Hoyland & Darcy Graham in you couple of corduroyed fanatics! Might even find a place for Dougie Fife on the bench.

Truth is it doesn't matter which two of Maits, Tam or King Blarehorn plays as they are all quality international wingers. (Though Seymour absolutely pasting Campagnaro causing a turnover at the weekend was a thing of beauty). None of it matters if we end up getting marmalised up front and at the set piece.

To be honest I completely agree with you on the last paragraph - whoever we pick we have one of the best back 3s in the competition.

Seymour and maitland have a lot credit in the bank, I just don't think it sends a good messages about supposedly rewarding good performances!

by Eejit Wed 06 Feb 2019, 8:05 pm

Don’t sound so shocked. The nickname is just a name - I’m as insightful as baws.

The Plato of the southside they call me.

by tigertattie Wed 06 Feb 2019, 8:54 pm

RDW wrote:We're not 12 year old girls.....

Speak for yourself

by Collapse2005 Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:01 pm

Gonna lay it out there. Yep Scotland are good and our Murrayfield record isnt perfect but Ireland are a good side so we should be winning these games. The team needs a win, its time to back up the Jamie Heaslip fist pumps and put these punks on notice for the RWC. Ireland by 10 to 15. Bring it home.

by Cyril Wed 06 Feb 2019, 9:51 pm

A draw would be nice. 9-9 would stoke up the fires for our southern brethren to say there’s no rugby played on the NH.

by majesticimperialman Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:22 pm

Cyril wrote:A draw would be nice. 9-9 would stoke up the fires for our southern brethren to say there’s no rugby played on the NH.

I don't think it will be a drawn game.

i do expect it too be a close game , but i do think?expect that Ireland will come out the winners.

by Cyril Wed 06 Feb 2019, 10:26 pm

Aye, Ireland by 20-25. Backlash!

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