What a league

There a point here or just trolling?

He believes all sides are basically equal and if one side is penalised more than another then it's likely a stuffed brown envelope that did it.

SecretFly wrote:He believes all sides are basically equal and if one side is penalised more than another then it's likely a stuffed brown envelope that did it.

No.

I believe that the Pro14 is such a shambles of a competition that it employs referees that are beyond incompetent.

As with the conversations on the Wales England thread without context stats are limited. What was you issue on the breakdown gif on the other thread?

No 7&1/2 wrote:As with the conversations on the Wales England thread without context stats are limited. What was you issue on the breakdown gif on the other thread?

Watch the match. Double movement.

I find it very hard to believe that a side that traditionally pushes the bounderies has gone a whole game without being penalised for anything.

But hey ho.

Isn't it a great league that the ref applies the rules and doesn't penalise one team because the other teams are giving away penalties. If we equal opportunities not equal results

LordDowlais wrote:I find it very hard to believe that a side that traditionally pushes the bounderies has gone a whole game without being penalised for anything.

But hey ho.

This was 56 seconds in

And they continued to do it all game. The Pro14 is an utter shambles. Those who refute that are deluded or lying or both.

If you combine the conferences the Welsh teams would be 8th, 9th, 10th and 12th. The Irish would be 1st, 2nd, 4th and 7th. Maybe that the real source of his frustration?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:I find it very hard to believe that a side that traditionally pushes the bounderies has gone a whole game without being penalised for anything.

But hey ho.

This was 56 seconds in

And they continued to do it all game. The Pro14 is an utter shambles. Those who refute that are deluded or lying or both.

Come on....

profitius wrote:If you combine the conferences the Welsh teams would be 8th, 9th, 10th and 12th. The Irish would be 1st, 2nd, 4th and 7th. Maybe that the real source of his frustration?

And if you had a spine, you'd probably look at this thread and see a worrying problem for our league.

Presumably as the player wasn't on the ball thus not slowing? Unless you're suggesting that they should have looked at the player being flipped which does look as if a closer look may have been helpful.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Presumably as the player wasn't on the ball thus not slowing? Unless you're suggesting that they should have looked at the player being flipped which does look as if a closer look may have been helpful.

He's clearly gone off his feet, and piled over the top of the ruck. It's a pen all day long, seriously what is the matter with you ?

The two guys at the front of the ruck not looking to take any contact. Would you rather he hit one of them in the back and drive him over the ruck into the scrum half. I'm not a rule expert like some but maybe he thought it was out or fell over all the players not wanting to contest the ruck with him.

As far as I know if advantage is played for a penalty infringement and then advantage is over the stats won't show a penalty. Kings like to run the ball so please advise how many penaly advantages the Kings were given that they didn't take.

Brendan wrote:The two guys at the front of the ruck not looking to take any contact. Would you rather he hit one of them in the back and drive him over the ruck into the scrum half. I'm not a rule expert like some but maybe he thought it was out or fell over all the players not wanting to contest the ruck with him.

Seriously ? Are you for real ?

I would rather he had more control of himself and did not go off his feet.

Brendan wrote:As far as I know if advantage is played for a penalty infringement and then advantage is over the stats won't show a penalty. Kings like to run the ball so please advise how many penaly advantages the Kings were given that they didn't take.

Ah, so it's Southern Kings fault, because they like to play a running style of rugby.

He's definitely gone off his feet I agree. As I said though refs will play on if play hasn't been disrupted. From the looks of that angle it appears he's not on the ball so I can see why he would just play on. It's obviously easier knowing how the ref has dealt with it with his commentary. What was said and was the flip looked at?

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Presumably as the player wasn't on the ball thus not slowing? Unless you're suggesting that they should have looked at the player being flipped which does look as if a closer look may have been helpful.

He's clearly gone off his feet, and piled over the top of the ruck. It's a pen all day long, seriously what is the matter with you ?

Except he clearly fell over while trying to counter ruck, some refs penalise regardless and some let it slid as the ball wasn't being slowed down

The Kings play flipping him over however is dangerous and should have been a Munster penalty

RugbyFan100 wrote:

profitius wrote:If you combine the conferences the Welsh teams would be 8th, 9th, 10th and 12th. The Irish would be 1st, 2nd, 4th and 7th. Maybe that the real source of his frustration?

And if you had a spine, you'd probably look at this thread and see a worrying problem for our league.

I am fairly sure 90% or more view the teams as in the right place in their conference except maybe the Blues should be a little higher due to their first 3 games. The worrying problem I assume is that you can only go from 5th to 2/3 depending on results in a weekend and not go from 11th to 4th in a weekend.

No 7&1/2 wrote:He's definitely gone off his feet I agree. As I said though refs will play on if play hasn't been disrupted. From the looks of that angle it appears he's not on the ball so I can see why he would just play on. It's obviously easier knowing how the ref has dealt with it with his commentary. What was said and was the flip looked at?

He has clearly slowed the ball down, as the scrum half could not get the ball out and pass in the direction he wanted to until the SK player flipped him, which he shouldn't have.

But the ref should have blown his whistle immediately. Then the flip would not have happened.

But you will defend what is infront of you no matter what evidence is given.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Presumably as the player wasn't on the ball thus not slowing? Unless you're suggesting that they should have looked at the player being flipped which does look as if a closer look may have been helpful.

He's clearly gone off his feet, and piled over the top of the ruck. It's a pen all day long, seriously what is the matter with you ?

Except he clearly fell over while trying to counter ruck, some refs penalise regardless and some let it slid as the ball wasn't being slowed down

The Kings play flipping him over however is dangerous and should have been a Munster penalty

What counter ruck ?

It should have been a penalty to SK, and then the flip, which should be cited, would have never happened.

It's another case of inept reffing in the league.

LordDowlais wrote:

Brendan wrote:The two guys at the front of the ruck not looking to take any contact. Would you rather he hit one of them in the back and drive him over the ruck into the scrum half. I'm not a rule expert like some but maybe he thought it was out or fell over all the players not wanting to contest the ruck with him.

Seriously ? Are you for real ?

I would rather he had more control of himself and did not go off his feet.

Brendan wrote:As far as I know if advantage is played for a penalty infringement and then advantage is over the stats won't show a penalty. Kings like to run the ball so please advise how many penaly advantages the Kings were given that they didn't take.

Ah, so it's Southern Kings fault, because they like to play a running style of rugby.

They're just trolling LD. They can't for one second admit there is a deep, deep, serious problem with officiating in the Pro14.

All we can do is try and continue to highlight this problem as much as we can.

LordDowlais wrote:
He has clearly slowed the ball down

Feel free to show where his hands are on the ball

Hard to tell from that angle. I can't see the ball but it looks as if he's wider than the ball. Ref has the better view from that point. I reiterate I've seen them given but some refs like to give the players opportunities some immediately blow. That's not a league thing but just individuals.

Yes the flip may not have happened. But it did. Simply asking if it was reviewed as that could easily have led to a serious injury.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Presumably as the player wasn't on the ball thus not slowing? Unless you're suggesting that they should have looked at the player being flipped which does look as if a closer look may have been helpful.

He's clearly gone off his feet, and piled over the top of the ruck. It's a pen all day long, seriously what is the matter with you ?

Except he clearly fell over while trying to counter ruck, some refs penalise regardless and some let it slid as the ball wasn't being slowed down

The Kings play flipping him over however is dangerous and should have been a Munster penalty

What counter ruck ?

It should have been a penalty to SK, and then the flip, which should be cited, would have never happened.

It's another case of inept reffing in the league.

The counter ruck he missed on the Kings player when he fell ar$e over head

Saying the flip wouldn't have happened is just laughable as if the ref deemed it a penalty he would have played advantage so you're dismissing serious foul play to continue your usual anti Irish bias

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hard to tell from that angle. I can't see the ball but it looks as if he's wider than the ball. Ref has the better view from that point. I reiterate I've seen them given but some refs like to give the players opportunities some immediately blow. That's not a league thing but just individuals.

Yes the flip may not have happened. But it did. Simply asking if it was reviewed as that could easily have led to a serious injury.

Ref clearly signals play on from an angle far better than RF and LD both have but they know better apparently

Ask anybody else on this forum, besides the usual members who just like to argue, then they will all agree, it's a penalty against Munster.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Brendan wrote:The two guys at the front of the ruck not looking to take any contact. Would you rather he hit one of them in the back and drive him over the ruck into the scrum half. I'm not a rule expert like some but maybe he thought it was out or fell over all the players not wanting to contest the ruck with him.

Seriously ? Are you for real ?

I would rather he had more control of himself and did not go off his feet.

Brendan wrote:As far as I know if advantage is played for a penalty infringement and then advantage is over the stats won't show a penalty. Kings like to run the ball so please advise how many penaly advantages the Kings were given that they didn't take.

Ah, so it's Southern Kings fault, because they like to play a running style of rugby.

They're just trolling LD. They can't for one second admit there is a deep, deep, serious problem with officiating in the Pro14.

All we can do is try and continue to highlight this problem as much as we can.

There's a refereeing problem world wide as in nearly every game the home side gets the majority of the decisions.


I watched the Munster game and although Munster were far superior in the contact area, I was surprised their penalty count was 0. The ref was new, someone I hadn't seen before. Say they got away with 3 or 4 decisions. It happens all the time.


But that's besides the point. Why are ye singling out the pro14 yet again when ye know full well it's a rugby problem due to the refs having license to interpret things themselves? Every tournament there's controversial decisions made, 90% of the time it's the away fans complaining.

You do sometimes read what you want don't you Lord? I'm saying it could have been a pen but think the ref feels the ball isn't interfered with though you can't tell from the camera angle at all. I do agree the ref and assistants need to be taken aside if they didn't review the flip. Probably yellow as he lands on his back but deliberate needless and no regard for safety.

It's funny how often you rely on strawman arguments

If you bothered reading what was actually written rather being in your perpetually outraged state you'd see everyone has said that a penalty could be given, what is highlighted is that not every ref gives it. Your need for everything being clear cut is not based in how things are done. Some refs would give him off his feet and some as Davies seems to do say he's not slowing it down so no actual foul play is going on.

You say it's clear he's slowing the ball down yet you show nothing that shows it, would that be because it's not actually clear? Might he be a case of the 9 trying to milk a penalty as many do?

What is strange is that you dismiss what is clear dangerous play, why aren't you outraged that the only piece of clear foul play isn't penalised?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Brendan wrote:The two guys at the front of the ruck not looking to take any contact. Would you rather he hit one of them in the back and drive him over the ruck into the scrum half. I'm not a rule expert like some but maybe he thought it was out or fell over all the players not wanting to contest the ruck with him.

Seriously ? Are you for real ?

I would rather he had more control of himself and did not go off his feet.

Brendan wrote:As far as I know if advantage is played for a penalty infringement and then advantage is over the stats won't show a penalty. Kings like to run the ball so please advise how many penaly advantages the Kings were given that they didn't take.

Ah, so it's Southern Kings fault, because they like to play a running style of rugby.

They're just trolling LD. They can't for one second admit there is a deep, deep, serious problem with officiating in the Pro14.

All we can do is try and continue to highlight this problem as much as we can.

Please feel free to show where anyone has stated there isn't a problem with the officiating in the league

profitius wrote:

There's a refereeing problem world wide as in nearly every game the home side gets the majority of the decisions.


I watched the Munster game and although Munster were far superior in the contact area, I was surprised their penalty count was 0. The ref was new, someone I hadn't seen before. Say they got away with 3 or 4 decisions. It happens all the time.


But that's besides the point. Why are ye singling out the pro14 yet again when ye know full well it's a rugby problem due to the refs having license to interpret things themselves? Every tournament there's controversial decisions made, 90% of the time it's the away fans complaining.

Apparently, there is no record of a team ever not conceding either a free kick or a penalty in 80 minutes of professional rugby.

So this kind of thing is very much just a pro14 problem I'm afraid.

marty2086 wrote:What is strange is that you dismiss what is clear dangerous play, why aren't you outraged that the only piece of clear foul play isn't penalised?

No I havent.

It's you who only reads what he wants on here. Read the whole thread again, I have mentioned it more than once.

Simply drop into a Leicester tigers match thread and you'll see fans disgruntled with refs isn't isolated to the pro 14.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:What is strange is that you dismiss what is clear dangerous play, why aren't you outraged that the only piece of clear foul play isn't penalised?

No I havent.

It's you who only reads what he wants on here. Read the whole thread again, I have mentioned it more than once.

And dismissed it each time

Then the flip would not have happened

and then the flip, which should be cited, would have never happened

Your outrage is directed towards Munster not being penalised? Why not the Kings player not being penalised?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Simply drop into a Leicester tigers match thread and you'll see fans disgruntled with refs isn't isolated to the pro 14.

I don't think anybody has claimed that to be the case.

Why do you think I am outraged ?

I'm not.

I think that this is a case of more inept reffing in the league. Yet you think otherwise. How refreshing.

There's poor officiating.

Then there's the pro14.

You'll have to forgive my misunderstanding then rugby fan as when you said it was only a pro 14 problem I though you were talking about fans believing some refs aren't up to it. What did you mean?

No 7&1/2 wrote:You'll have to forgive my misunderstanding then rugby fan as when you said it was only a pro 14 problem I though you were talking about fans believing some refs aren't up to it. What did you mean?

He meant that it's only ever happened in the PRO14 that one side gets away without being penalised even once. It's never happened in any other pro league.

Aslo, I am sure if we asked nicely, RF could put more of those little snippets to drive his point home.

Ah. A very specific complaint which side steps his apparent underlying issue. Fair enough. I think we all agree that in this instance all the officials misses a blatant bit of player safety.

LordDowlais wrote:Why do you think I am outraged ?

I'm not.

I think that this is a case of more inept reffing in the league. Yet you think otherwise. How refreshing.

Then why are you complaining and calling people inept if you're not outraged?

You said it's clear yet can't show where his hands are on the ball, the ref had a better view than you yet are calling him names and attacking anyone who disagrees. If you're not outraged then seek help

He missed the flip, it happens, it's why there are TMOs and citing commissioners. Refs have one set of eyes and are usually focused on the ball. If you think you can do better then work away, if he's new he'll probably be nervous and struggling to keep pace so will make mistakes. He should get better with experience

You start the petition for all seeing robot refs and I'll happily sign it but if you think refs won't make mistakes then wind yer neck in

Lifes to short for this.

Marty your on your own, you really are.

Although ironically we all agree to about 95 per cent of what did and should have happened.

Yep, the case IS and has always been that there is an exception to be made for the degree of ineptitude present in Pro14 when compared to other leagues. That's always the inference as it's always tied into the more broad argument that Pro14 can't match the professionalism of its rival leagues.
That's pretty much a scientific claim and lo and behold the gifs come up to 'prove' the 'facts'. But of course the 'scientific' claim is proof of nothing except that Pro14 is a Rugby Union contest, just like the English Premiership, the Top 14 and the Super Rugby competition. The scientific conclusion would be that there is nothing exceptional about the reffing in Pro 14 if similar reffing performances and decisions could be uncovered in all those other Leagues.
Now taking an example of International rugby then it's clear that there's considered to be ample evidence that referees from these other Nations regularly gaff their way through contentious games. So, are we meant to believe that these high grade International referees don't habitually make the same regular gaffs when reffing domestic competitions? Also, if these are considered their Nation's top ranked refs then how many regular errors of judgements must the non-International standard refs make in these other contests.
If mistakes and gaffs happen in all Leagues then the scientific conclusion is that there is no quantifiable issues with reffing in Pro14 and any anomalies are simply the anomalies that show up whenever a human being refs a rugby game.

Incredibly sensible post fly.

LordDowlais wrote:Lifes to short for this.

Marty your on your own, you really are.

Except for those who agreeing with me you mean? Which you yourself have acknowledged

Maybe instead of flying off the handle and overstating EVERYTHING, you might try discussing the issue like a grown up instead of a spoilt teenager who then strops off to his room because he couldn't get his way

You've said that he was clearly playing the ball, you were asked to show where it was clear yet remain silent on it. Is that because you've overstated that claim? Or is there a bias on your part that seems to resent the Irish? I mean it's not like myself and others have said it could be given but it easily wouldn't be by some. A bit like when you say it would be given everywhere your claim, poor officiating Pro14 problem when others have pointed out it's a problem across the game, I mean it's not like some of the Pro14 refs officiated in other competitions and are equally shoite.

Instead of being perpetually offended by people pointing out your claims are at times ridiculous, maybe try toning things down

Personal thoughts:
I have never seen a game where one side did not concede a single penalty. This is extremely odd, and personally I feel doubts could be raised about the standard of this ref in this game. These can only be addressed properly by reviewing the whole game. I get the feeling though that this is a long running argument with a lot of subtexts far beyond this individual game.



Mod bit:

As often happens with discussion like this the tone shifts pretty quickly at times. Please ensure this thread does not become one that requires modding.

One thing that would help is if people questioning the referee actually watched the match.

If they did not they are in no position to comment