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Professional Rugby Board (PRB) ? / Project Reset

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Which Region should be merged/disbanded.

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Post by No9 on Mon 25 Feb 2019, 1:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

So is the newly formed Professional Rugby Board (PRB) going to create stability in the Welsh Professional game or just be a stay of execution before the 4 regions get cut to 3 or even 2.

We don't have the funds in Wales to maintain the existing professional sides, but the problem is, cut one and that wont mean the remaining 3 get more revenue, as supporters and fans of a region will not simply support another is theirs are disbanded, as proved when they disbanded the Celtic Warriors.

I hate the fact, but we don't have the funds to keep professional rugby in Wales, and I foresee the demise of it looming.. Sad

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47348518?isBumped=0&postFreq=0&isEmpty=0&isProfane=0&tooLong=0&charCount=0&isAwaitingProcessPreMod=0&isSubmitted=1&filter=none&initial_page_size=10&postId=133850859#comment_133850859

I love the comment "He admitted an Ospreys merger with Cardiff Blues had been among the options explored in high-level Welsh rugby talks"... what Muppet thought that was going to work Erm

Thoughts....

Its all off again... https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47461662

Lets hope thats the last we hear of this rubbish until the 6 Nations is over at least...


Last edited by No9 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 2:16 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by No9 on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 7:17 pm

Well this is the start of the end, as I see it.

I can see more players leaving Wales to secure their future. Those who have been on the fringes and overlooked by the National team will take the pay-day if offered now. Some wont have a chance, unless they want to change career. And those who have enough caps will look elsewhere.

And all in the dawn of a Grand Slam.... Well done, we always look at a way of pressing the self destruct button, but this one is beyond belief.

Guess we can kiss goodbye to any RWC chance again this year. We may not have any professional players to choose from by then.

Bet Wayne Pivac is looking for the out clause in his WRU contract. Crying or Very sad

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 7:35 pm

"The union have just created a huge mess at such a vital time," said Gough.

He added on BBC Radio Wales: "I struggled to get to sleep last night.

"Wales are going for a Grand Slam, a tough trip to Scotland at the weekend, and they drop this on everyone. I'm dumfounded by it."

Gough fears the WRU's plan for a professional team in the north of the country is not viable in the long term and risks alienating fans in one of the game's traditional hotbeds.

"It seems they want it hell-bent, that they want to pin this tail on the donkey up north," he said.

"In 2003 there was a huge divide in fans and it's taken a long time to get over that decision that was made back then.

"Now all of a sudden you're going to completely alienate a huge amount of fans in this south Wales corridor again.

"I just don't think it's been thought out very well. They're blindly running up this avenue up north, which I don't think will be viable in a year or two."

Gough, who was one of 13 Ospreys who started for Wales when they beat England in the opening match of the 2008 Six Nations, is also worried about the impact of a merger on players and staff at the two regions potentially involved.

"There'll be mental health issues going right the way through because they're staring down the barrel of not having a job," he said.

He also fears more changes at the top level could have a negative impact on crowds at professional games and participation at local club level.

"Another thing is getting the crowds in and doing their research and the grassroots rugby is really struggling," he said.

"Every grassroots club I've been to in the last couple of years are really struggling. There's bigger issues and they're not addressing them, they're just making a shambolic effort at what they're doing."

The WRU have been asked to comment, but are maintaining a policy of staying silent on Project Reset until a formal announcement is made.


Well said Goughy.

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Post by exile jack on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 8:23 pm

Finally,after years of unrelenting effort the WRU fulfil their wish to be the lunatics taking over their asylum.Merging the Sospans and the Jacks would be like putting gravy on lobster.Ol' Grav must be kicking a celestial corner flag on Heaven's paddock.

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Post by Stone Motif on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 9:33 pm

"The issue the WRU have to face in saving our game, is not how we split the resources here but how we salvage ourselves from an unsellable and corrupt-tinged league. Otherwise its deckchair shifting until we sink."

Pretty much the only sensible comment I've seen made on the subject of Project Gog in the last few days. A Ruby amidst a festering deluge of turds.
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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 9:50 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:Also the talk of scrapping the Dragons, they cover a large area and population

Not as much as Swansea and the surrounding areas.

Can you tell be the area and population of each Region to back this up

Second how would you have broken up 3 Southern Regions.  Would you have merged the Dragons and Scarlets

No, I would have merged Dragons with Cardiff, and left the other two as they were.

But from the outset, I would have gone with the original plan of West Wales, East Wales, Valleys/Mid Wales and North Wales.

So by your own logic population isn't important nor is closeness to another area.

If you had of gone with your set-up orginally who would be now funding these Regions
Warriors bust, Ponty on its way
Dragons bust
Ospreys on its way, Neath bust,
Blues and Scarlets money men wouldn't be here as they only wanted to fund their Super Clubs. Ironically these are now the Men holding up the beloved private system and cleaning up some of the mess left by others
.


The Dragons weren’t bust. That’s twice you’ve said it! Their owners decided to sell to the WRU. But they weren’t bust.

Bust is probably the wrong word. No longer had the money to invest in the Region so wanted to sell it

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 9:59 pm

Surely Blues will get a better squad as a result as will the Dragons. The surplus players would move one would assume.

Dragon with a few more players might not be as bad as they are now.

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 10:04 pm

Brendan wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:Also the talk of scrapping the Dragons, they cover a large area and population

Not as much as Swansea and the surrounding areas.

Can you tell be the area and population of each Region to back this up

Second how would you have broken up 3 Southern Regions.  Would you have merged the Dragons and Scarlets

No, I would have merged Dragons with Cardiff, and left the other two as they were.

But from the outset, I would have gone with the original plan of West Wales, East Wales, Valleys/Mid Wales and North Wales.

So by your own logic population isn't important nor is closeness to another area.

If you had of gone with your set-up orginally who would be now funding these Regions
Warriors bust, Ponty on its way
Dragons bust
Ospreys on its way, Neath bust,
Blues and Scarlets money men wouldn't be here as they only wanted to fund their Super Clubs. Ironically these are now the Men holding up the beloved private system and cleaning up some of the mess left by others
.


The Dragons weren’t bust. That’s twice you’ve said it! Their owners decided to sell to the WRU. But they weren’t bust.

Bust is probably the wrong word. No longer had the money to invest in the Region so wanted to sell it

They’ve got the money, believe me! But perhaps not the motivation any more.

Funny/strange how all of the backers seem to be walking away now. As I posted earlier, first the Dragons backers/owners sold up, then the Blues chairman and backer, now the Ospreys chairman and backer. Private ownership looks to be nearly over. But will the WRU be able to or want to take over? Probably not. Is ownership being forced on them?! Maybe so. That’ll learn them!
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Post by The Oracle on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 10:07 pm

Brendan wrote:Surely Blues will get a better squad as a result as will the Dragons.  The surplus players would move one would assume.

Dragon with a few more players might not be as bad as they are now.

They will if we have someone like Jackman again! Quality coaching is what the regions need. Plus players. But if someone like Lam can win the league with Connacht who were not filled with superstars, then perhaps the regions currently pretty well stocked with internationals should/could be doing better than they have done.


Last edited by The Oracle on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 9:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VinceWLB on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 10:49 pm

Sounds like a panic decision when cool heads would be needed.

From reading the Ospreys statement they feel very hard done about it as they feel the only one to have embraced regional rugby, which is true.
Problem is they thought they were going to do well with terrible coaches.

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Post by VinceWLB on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 10:57 pm

By the way, a wise poster on the Scarlets forum said the best solution would be to merge RGC and Ospreys, which i totally agree with, if, Ospreys really have to be closed down.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 Mar 2019, 11:00 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Sounds like a panic decision when cool heads would be needed.

From reading the Ospreys statement they feel very hard done about it as they feel the only one to have embraced regional rugby, which is true.
Problem is they thought they were going to do well with terrible coaches.

Are the Ospreys not the one true Region because of their early success. Considering the population of their Region were they any more supported than Dragons or Scarlts. Like Munster were the team of the people and Leinster were just D4 snobs until they started winning now everyone loves them. Winning teams are always the team of the people.

If Dragons were successful they would be a great Region for many people.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:40 am

VinceWLB wrote:Sounds like a panic decision when cool heads would be needed.

From reading the Ospreys statement they feel very hard done about it as they feel the only one to have embraced regional rugby, which is true.
Problem is they thought they were going to do well with terrible coaches.

Yeah it’s true they do feel that way. #delusional

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Post by No9 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 2:14 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Sounds like a panic decision when cool heads would be needed.

From reading the Ospreys statement they feel very hard done about it as they feel the only one to have embraced regional rugby, which is true.
Problem is they thought they were going to do well with terrible coaches.

Yeah it’s true they do feel that way. #delusional

Total BULLSH!T...

The Ospreys are the one and only TRUE region, as they where the only one to formed from a merger (Swansea/Neath) and then embracing the Bridgend region when the Warriors where disbanded. The Scarlets have always been a stand-alone club (LLanelli), as have the Blues (Cardiff) and also the Dragons (Newport). Scarlets, Blues and Dragons have NEVER embraced regional rugby. That's the history of it, no matter how you would like to re-write it. They even fought to keep their club names, ie Cardiff Blues, Llanelli Scarlets and Newport Dragons.

I know, if one has to go, you want to protect your own and throw the Ospreys to the sword, but please don't lie about the past

So, yes, the Ospreys are the only team to embrace regional rugby and so no wonder they feel hard done by this fiasco.

Dragons have done nothing at all for Welsh rugby, so if any side should be disbanded or "merged" with another then take the annual bottom placed (Welsh) side. Merge with RGC and they may even get better.
#TheRealDelusionalSide.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 2:22 am

Dragons are a region, nice try though. That makes you the one who' full of that, along with rest of the one true region brigade. I would rather that none of the four were culled however, if it is the Ospreys.

As it stands all four have been a regional entity since 2003, and although the Dragons embraced it they were left out in the dark to suffer by mismanagement from the WRU and other rugby clubs in the region.


Last edited by maestegmafia on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 6:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Unnecessary antagonism)

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 6:30 am

This reorganisation of regional rugby is based on sustainability. How do we get the best teams, the best training conditions for the players and make that last without brining the entire game into debt.

A country with £3m people and of that an average of thirty something thousand go to watch regional rugby at the weekend.

The distance between Newport and Llanelli is 50 miles. 350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire. 1M people in north wales for who it is easier to get to see Sale Sharks play than a welsh region.

There is a decent argument for disbanding all four regions as they currently stand and resetting the entire project. Regions are currently not getting the local revenue from advertising, the catchment area isn’t providing enough good players, they can’t afford world class imported players and can’t hang on to our home grown top professionals. They are rapidly losing all our top potential youth players to English club academies, looked to see how many welsh names are at Leicester, for example, these days?

We need to make it easier for the regions to do their job well to earn more, to have more top quality welsh players in each region.

To be cold hearted and pragmatic towards the future of welsh rugby is important right now. Otherwise the game in wales will struggle further and further into the future.

There was never going to be a good timing for this and it was never going to be easy.


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Post by Irish Londoner on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 8:58 am

Can someone explain why the Welsh government wants a region in North Wales so badly it's prepared to shovel several million pounds of money (that I'm sure other areas of Welsh sport and other public services could also use) towards them to create one?
Firstly government funding for sport should be towards the grassroots to engage kids and keep adults active and healthy, secondly who is actually going to watch RGC1404 or the North Wales Castles or whatever stupid marketing name is thought up for them, thirdly where are they going to play and finally how do away fans get there as there's no direct north/south road for Welsh fans and for European games everyone will have to head across from Liverpool along the A55 (might be good for the Liverpool tourist trade as visiting fans might be tempted to an overnighter in Liverpool) the only visitors it might be accessible to are the Irish coming in to Holyhead on a day trip.
Final point whenever I've been to north Wales I see lots of football shirts (and hear more Scouse accents than Welsh ones) but only the odd rugby one so where are the home supporters going to come from?
I've heard the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and whilst I understand that the current regional sides are in trouble then fixing it should no be the same as smashing it !

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 9:03 am

No9 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Sounds like a panic decision when cool heads would be needed.

From reading the Ospreys statement they feel very hard done about it as they feel the only one to have embraced regional rugby, which is true.
Problem is they thought they were going to do well with terrible coaches.

Yeah it’s true they do feel that way. #delusional

Total BULLSH!T...

The Ospreys are the one and only TRUE region, as they where the only one to formed from a merger (Swansea/Neath) and then embracing the Bridgend region when the Warriors where disbanded. The Scarlets have always been a stand-alone club (LLanelli), as have the Blues (Cardiff) and also the Dragons (Newport). Scarlets, Blues and Dragons have NEVER embraced regional rugby. That's the history of it, no matter how you would like to re-write it. They even fought to keep their club names, ie Cardiff Blues, Llanelli Scarlets and Newport Dragons.

I know, if one has to go, you want to protect your own and throw the Ospreys to the sword, but please don't lie about the past

So, yes, the Ospreys are the only team to embrace regional rugby and so no wonder they feel hard done by this fiasco.

Dragons have done nothing at all for Welsh rugby, so if any side should be disbanded or "merged" with another then take the annual bottom placed (Welsh) side. Merge with RGC and they may even get better.
#TheRealDelusionalSide.

Dragons were formed from a merger too, so let’s stop the inaccuracies. Who are Newport Dragons? It’s awfully ironic to say stop lying about the past, after that post.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 9:25 am

ALL regions have been doing regional work. To say only the Ospreys are a true region more so than the others is to buy into the BS propaganda spouted by some.

ALL of them go out to the schools, clubs, etc. in their region and do development work.

ALL hold coaching clinics around the region.

ALL have age grade academies that cover and draw from the region.

They are ALL doing regional work.

Just because some have kept their town/city name is not reason enough to accuse them of not acting in a regional way. I think some people need to stop believing everything they read online.
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 9:33 am

If Wales was square shaped and flat then I would agree to a nice North, South, East, West split.  It would make sense.  But the reality is that you need to factor in population spread and topography to get a good idea of why the regions are where they are currently.  Add in the fact that North Wales isn't really a rugby hotbed and that adds further to the argument for pro teams in the south, although there is population in N Wales to support it (on paper).  It's a bit like rugby league - close down half  of them and move them down south?  Why, if North England is the 'hot bed'?  Here's the spread of population and here's the 'lay of the land'.  The red bits are high ground/mountains and the green bits are where people tend to live Smile

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Post by No9 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:04 am

As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:20 am

Doesn't rugby take place where airplanes fly in South Africa? Having your home base at altitude? Those players would win Everything innit! And call 'em the Soaring Ospreys.... and give them red shirts to placate the Scarlet fans.

There. Sorted. You see, business don't have to be so complicated. My consultancy fee to the usual Cayman Islands account......

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:34 am

No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

As expected, Ospreys fan decides to ignore the increasing likelihood that the Ospreys are merging because they are skint not because the WRU want them to.
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:45 am

No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...


I think you need to check back over the posts. I said that the decision to merge Scarlets and Ospreys was bonkers and that the Dragons should be first to go.

But we're hearing that the regions brought the proposal to the table, not the WRU. So lay off the Dragons fans, will you?
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Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:52 am

No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

Dragons are solvent, Ospreys aren't. Ospreys asked for help, Scarlets said we'll save you. Instead of complaining about the WRU and Dragons maybe it would be a good idea to be asking the Ospreys board how they ran the club into the ground though it seems with their statements they might be willing to allow it to happen just to save face

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Post by wayne on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 10:58 am

Irish Londoner wrote:Can someone explain why the Welsh government wants a region in North Wales so badly it's prepared to shovel several million pounds of money (that I'm sure other areas of Welsh sport and other public services could also use) towards them to create one?
Firstly government funding for sport should be towards the grassroots to engage kids and keep adults active and healthy, secondly who is actually going to watch RGC1404 or the North Wales Castles or whatever stupid marketing name is thought up for them, thirdly where are they going to play and finally how do away fans get there as there's no direct north/south road for Welsh fans and for European games everyone will have to head across from Liverpool along the A55 (might be good for the Liverpool tourist trade as visiting fans might be tempted to an overnighter in Liverpool) the only visitors it might be accessible to are the Irish coming in to Holyhead on a day trip.
Final point whenever I've been to north Wales I see lots of football shirts (and hear more Scouse accents than Welsh ones) but only the odd rugby one so where are the home supporters going to come from?
I've heard the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and whilst I understand that the current regional sides are in trouble then fixing it should no be the same as smashing it !

I REALLY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO PUT ANYTHING ON THIS PATHETIC FORUM, but some things are too important to shy away from'

Irish Londoner you've hit the nail on the head, why does the WRU need this pathetic pet project, that area has not produced many if any top class players apart from George North in the Professional Era, James King plays for us (Ospreys) although born in Oz his formative years was in Gogland but he can never be classed as top class.

Why was the Welsh team announced at short notice yesterday when for the past fortnight it was to be announced tomorrow, and most of the questions asked was about this debacle NOT about the Welsh team? Gatland followed the WRU line and it was all to do with the PRB. NO it was all to do with your PET PROJECT.

We (Ospreys) are going through a really tough time, yet we still supply 7 players for this weekends game. We've bent over backwards this season to help TW with people like AWJ playing the bare games that we've signed up for, and yet get treated like this.

Let me just say IF we had merged with either the Cardiff Blues or the Scarlets, I for one and going by our Forum many more would NOT have supported such a team, we would have to side with the 2 teams that really started this debacle by insisting ( and would have taken legal action to do so) on stand alone status at the beginning of Regional Rugby.

Final point this £12 Million that has been requested and apparently granted between the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) and the WRU, could be spent much better in MANY parts of Wales with better results. Just a bit of information for some, RGC plays in the Welsh Premiership against all other teams in South Wales, whoever is the away team gets payment from the WRU for one nights stay away. WHY?

I for one would love there to be a North Wales Region but only on merit, NOT on this biased PET PROJECT way especially NOT at the expense of the best performing Region since the inception of Regional Rugby. That would also apply whoever was the BEST, be it Scarlets, Cardiff Blues or Dragons

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Post by Brendan on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:Also the talk of scrapping the Dragons, they cover a large area and population

Not as much as Swansea and the surrounding areas.

Can you tell be the area and population of each Region to back this up

Second how would you have broken up 3 Southern Regions.  Would you have merged the Dragons and Scarlets

The internet is your friend for answers to this. OK

350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire. (From another poster feel free to find your own)

So under your plan 850k would be in this new Region because after all Swansea has more people than Newport which has more than Llanelli.

Is the Valleys problem with the Dragons that they have been able to keep going and if they hadn't been there then the Warriors wouldn't have gone to the wall.  There is no logical reason to believe a valleys team would have surpassed the Dragon in performance (if anything they would have had worse performances due to even less money).

I can understand if Valleys people had issues with Scarlets as a stand alone team and the help they got from different sources when they were in trouble. But not the constant complaint of the Dragon should be shut down because any other new Region would be better than them and this new Region would be loved by everyone

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Post by No9 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

Dragons are solvent, Ospreys aren't. Ospreys asked for help, Scarlets said we'll save you. Instead of complaining about the WRU and Dragons maybe it would be a good idea to be asking the Ospreys board how they ran the club into the ground though it seems with their statements they might be willing to allow it to happen just to save face

Have we forgot, that the Dragons are solvent because they where bailed out (bought out) by the WRU. The Blues announced they had difficulty and wanted the WRU to bail them out. The Scarlets finances arent good and I recollect them asking for a handout from the WRU.

All regions benefactors have bailed out. All regions are not financially looking good.

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Post by No9 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:33 am

The Oracle wrote:
No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...


I think you need to check back over the posts.  I said that the decision to merge Scarlets and Ospreys was bonkers and that the Dragons should be first to go.

But we're hearing that the regions brought the proposal to the table, not the WRU.  So lay off the Dragons fans, will you?  

You did... but other Dragon fans arent so open minded on the topic.

As for who brought this to the table, I say the WRU have an hand in it. It is their project and they have 2 seats on the PRB. One as Dragons owners and also the WRU seat.

The more that comes out, ie around WAG money, the more this smells...

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Post by Brendan on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:35 am

I am seeing lots of reports from the Ospreys but has anything come out from the other Regions to back up either side or shed light on why Ospreys were being canned.

I can't decide if it's the others being good boys so they keep themselves open and on the WRU's good side or if it is that it is the Ospreys putting out stuff to deflect from the real reason.

I thought the reasons would have come out by now.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:37 am

Brendan wrote:350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire.

If you are going to use "Gwent" as point, no doubt used by one of the Dragons supporters on here to strengthen their own ends. Then you should consider the county Swansea is in. There are twice as many people living in and around Swansea than there is in Newport. In fact Newport, for me, is just another suburb of Cardiff.

Brendan wrote:Is the Valleys problem with the Dragons that they have been able to keep going and if they hadn't been there then the Warriors wouldn't have gone to the wall. There is no logical reason to believe a valleys team would have surpassed the Dragon in performance (if anything they would have had worse performances due to even less money).

I am of the opinion, that if the valleys region "Celtic Warriors" were not disbanded, they would be the most successful region by now. From the outset they did not have any old club names in their title, they were just not given a chance.

Brendan wrote:I can understand if Valleys people had issues with Scarlets as a stand alone team and the help they got from different sources when they were in trouble. But not the constant complaint of the Dragon should be shut down because any other new Region would be better than them and this new Region would be loved by everyone


What happened to Scarlets and Dragons over the years is nothing short of disgusting when you look at how firstly the Warriors were treated, and secondly how Ospreys are being treated now.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:45 am

Brendan wrote:I am seeing lots of reports from the Ospreys but has anything come out from the other Regions to back up either side or shed light on why Ospreys were being canned.

I can't decide if it's the others being good boys so they keep themselves open and on the WRU's good side or if it is that it is the Ospreys putting out stuff to deflect from the real reason.

I thought the reasons would have come out by now.

Excuse the source below but whatsapp messages from the players have apparently been leaked saying Ospreys and Scarlets were the ones presenting it to PRB, that would seem to indicate the regions are behind the idea and that is how it was initially reported by the Telegraph as Ospreys saying they were struggling and Scarlets stepping in to save the day

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/leaked-whatsapp-conversations-between-welsh-15922087

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Post by Irish Londoner on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 11:57 am

wayne wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:Can someone explain why the Welsh government wants a region in North Wales so badly it's prepared to shovel several million pounds of money (that I'm sure other areas of Welsh sport and other public services could also use) towards them to create one?
Firstly government funding for sport should be towards the grassroots to engage kids and keep adults active and healthy, secondly who is actually going to watch RGC1404 or the North Wales Castles or whatever stupid marketing name is thought up for them, thirdly where are they going to play and finally how do away fans get there as there's no direct north/south road for Welsh fans and for European games everyone will have to head across from Liverpool along the A55 (might be good for the Liverpool tourist trade as visiting fans might be tempted to an overnighter in Liverpool) the only visitors it might be accessible to are the Irish coming in to Holyhead on a day trip.
Final point whenever I've been to north Wales I see lots of football shirts (and hear more Scouse accents than Welsh ones) but only the odd rugby one so where are the home supporters going to come from?
I've heard the expression "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and whilst I understand that the current regional sides are in trouble then fixing it should no be the same as smashing it !

I REALLY REALLY DIDN'T WANT TO PUT ANYTHING ON THIS PATHETIC FORUM, but some things are too important to shy away from'

Irish Londoner you've hit the nail on the head, why does the WRU need this pathetic pet project, that area has not produced many if any top class players apart from George North in the Professional Era, James King plays for us (Ospreys) although born in Oz his formative years was in Gogland but he can never be classed as top class.

Why was the Welsh team announced at short notice yesterday when for the past fortnight it was to be announced tomorrow, and most of the questions asked was about this debacle NOT about the Welsh team? Gatland followed the WRU line and it was all to do with the PRB. NO it was all to do with your PET PROJECT.

We (Ospreys) are going through a really tough time, yet we still supply 7 players for this weekends game. We've bent over backwards this season to help TW with people like AWJ playing the bare games that we've signed up for, and yet get treated like this.

Let me just say IF we had merged with either the Cardiff Blues or the Scarlets, I for one and going by our Forum many more would NOT have supported such a team, we would have to side with the 2 teams that really started this debacle by insisting ( and would have taken legal action to do so) on stand alone status at the beginning of Regional Rugby.

Final point this £12 Million that has been requested and apparently granted between the Welsh Assembly Government (WAG) and the WRU, could be spent much better in MANY parts of Wales with better results. Just a bit of information for some, RGC plays in the Welsh Premiership against all other teams in South Wales, whoever is the away team gets payment from the WRU for one nights stay away. WHY?

I for one would love there to be a North Wales Region but only on merit, NOT on this biased PET PROJECT  way especially NOT at the expense of the best performing Region since the inception of Regional Rugby. That would also apply whoever was the BEST, be it Scarlets, Cardiff Blues or Dragons  

Hi Wayne, how can the Welsh government afford this? From what I gather the Welsh NHS is in serious trouble, the farmers and others are going to be hugely hit by Brexit, and I'm sure there are more pressing needs than a professional rugby club in North Wales. Is anyone in the Welsh media/government looking into this ?

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:06 pm

It is though surprising how much sport can generate a feel-good factor and spread out into confidence in businesses and purchasers. So don't knock the idea completely that money into sport could be better used. Having a team to call your own and if it became reasonably successful.... who knows what jump levels it might add to a North Wales economy

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Post by Brendan on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire.

If you are going to use "Gwent" as point, no doubt used by one of the Dragons supporters on here to strengthen their own ends.  Then you should consider the county Swansea is in. There are twice as many people living in and around Swansea than there is in Newport. In fact Newport, for me, is just another suburb of Cardiff.

Brendan wrote:Is the Valleys problem with the Dragons that they have been able to keep going and if they hadn't been there then the Warriors wouldn't have gone to the wall.  There is no logical reason to believe a valleys team would have surpassed the Dragon in performance (if anything they would have had worse performances due to even less money).

I am of the opinion, that if the valleys region "Celtic Warriors" were not disbanded, they would be the most successful region by now. From the outset they did not have any old club names in their title, they were just not given a chance.

Brendan wrote:I can understand if Valleys people had issues with Scarlets as a stand alone team and the help they got from different sources when they were in trouble. But not the constant complaint of the Dragon should be shut down because any other new Region would be better than them and this new Region would be loved by everyone


What happened to Scarlets and Dragons over the years is nothing short of disgusting when you look at how firstly the Warriors were treated, and secondly how Ospreys are being treated now.

If you have an issue with the numbers give me the Numbers for each Region

Saying the the Warriors would be the most successful is like saying if everyone had thought that picking up the ball was the best decision ever all those years ago Rugby would now be the biggest sport in the world.

In the one Season they were in the league they finished behind Scarlets and Dragons who by the later 2000s weren't doing so well with the Dragons finishing above the Scarlets.  The season after the Warriors folded the Dragons were 4th, and second best Region for the second year in a row. Third year they finished 8th.  Logic says the Warriors would have gone the same way as player contracts came up for renewal.

Warriors would have faced the same problem as the Dragon and Scarlets faced of the Blues and Ospreys amassing squads that were some of the best in Europe. Also there would have been complaints of everything being in Ponty which is to close to Cardiff (which may sound fimilar).

Would the Warriors have won more titles than Ospreys (built on imports and getting best Welsh players regardless of cost) and Scarlets (not covering the valleys) or more European Cups than the Blues (unlikely without money or the Blues based players)

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:24 pm

It's difficult but you need to try and look at things with cool heads and remove the emotional aspect out of the debate.

Now I don't know all the facts, but it seems that it's the clubs/regions that have gone to the WRU to look at a way of saving their bacon. So, you can't scorn the WRU for doing something as it seems that without major change, the Ospreys are going to disappear from existence.

you can't go basing things on geographical area either, or by population. You can only look at which clubs/regions are financially viable and they are the ones that will continue to run.

The north region that is being touted seems to be a politically based one to cater for an area that seems to feel excluded form rugby which is a huge part of life in Wales. Now it could be that there’s a small number of people but they're making more noise! hard to tell. Regardless, the Welsh Assembly is promising to fund this region to the tune of £12m. The issue is, when the £12m runs out, will a North region be able to continue to operate??

All I can say is that in this day and age, money talks.

There is however light at the end of the tunnel. Us Scots went through this when the Border Reivers club folded. At that time the 3 pro clubs in Scotland were independently financed but were propped up by SRU money. When the SRU pulled the funding as we were skint, the clubs struggled and as there wasn’t money to be made, the unrepentant owners packed up and legged it. The SRU then only had the ability to finance two teams so one had to go.

It was a shame that the Borders were the ones to go as the borders was always seen as a hotbed of rugby tradition in Scotland. Tradition will not pay the wages or the bills though and as the Borders were the weakest team in terms of finance (at the time and in the projected figures going forward) so they had to go.

In our hearts, we all want the borders club to return, but financially it just isn’t going to happen. It means that the borders don’t have a pro team, but they can still follow the amateur level game on a town by town basis and many players (see Darcy Graham who is likely to play on Sat) have progressed through the clubs scene and up to the Pros so there is still a pathway to pro rugby for guys in the borders.

Most importantly, the SRUs books are now far far better than they ever were. We've not had to sell Murrayfield and we've got plans in place to grow the game at grass roots level but also to maintain our financial stability.

So have faith cousins. We went through this and game out the other end in a much better place.
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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:28 pm

I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:30 pm

No9 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

Dragons are solvent, Ospreys aren't. Ospreys asked for help, Scarlets said we'll save you. Instead of complaining about the WRU and Dragons maybe it would be a good idea to be asking the Ospreys board how they ran the club into the ground though it seems with their statements they might be willing to allow it to happen just to save face

Have we forgot, that the Dragons are solvent because they where bailed out (bought out) by the WRU. The Blues announced they had difficulty and wanted the WRU to bail them out. The Scarlets finances arent good and I recollect them asking for a handout from the WRU.

All regions benefactors have bailed out. All regions are not financially looking good.

The three mentioned have an asset against which investment can be secured. Ospreys don't.
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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:31 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
No9 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

Dragons are solvent, Ospreys aren't. Ospreys asked for help, Scarlets said we'll save you. Instead of complaining about the WRU and Dragons maybe it would be a good idea to be asking the Ospreys board how they ran the club into the ground though it seems with their statements they might be willing to allow it to happen just to save face

Have we forgot, that the Dragons are solvent because they where bailed out (bought out) by the WRU. The Blues announced they had difficulty and wanted the WRU to bail them out. The Scarlets finances arent good and I recollect them asking for a handout from the WRU.

All regions benefactors have bailed out. All regions are not financially looking good.

The three mentioned have an asset against which investment can be secured. Ospreys don't.

What assets do the Cardiff Blues have ?


Last edited by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:31 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid
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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
No9 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
No9 wrote:As expected, Dragon fans out to deflect that out of the 4 remaining regions they have the worst record and if any have to go/merge it should be them... on result (or lack of it) record alone.

Personally, before I get attacked for this again. I dont think any of the current Regions should be merged or disbanded, especially for a North Wales region. I do appreciate the current model needs work, but to undertake this Project Reset (Inept) exercise at this moment, in lunacy...

Dragons are solvent, Ospreys aren't. Ospreys asked for help, Scarlets said we'll save you. Instead of complaining about the WRU and Dragons maybe it would be a good idea to be asking the Ospreys board how they ran the club into the ground though it seems with their statements they might be willing to allow it to happen just to save face

Have we forgot, that the Dragons are solvent because they where bailed out (bought out) by the WRU. The Blues announced they had difficulty and wanted the WRU to bail them out. The Scarlets finances arent good and I recollect them asking for a handout from the WRU.

All regions benefactors have bailed out. All regions are not financially looking good.

The three mentioned have an asset against which investment can be secured. Ospreys don't.

Neither do Cardiff Blues. Rolling Eyes

Wrong Rolling Eyes
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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:32 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:32 pm

You do realise that Cardiff Blues do not own their ground don't you ?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire.

If you are going to use "Gwent" as point, no doubt used by one of the Dragons supporters on here to strengthen their own ends.  Then you should consider the county Swansea is in. There are twice as many people living in and around Swansea than there is in Newport. In fact Newport, for me, is just another suburb of Cardiff.

You should contact the WRU, Dowlais. They'll feel like such fools when they realise they've bought out a region based in a suburb.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:33 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Brendan wrote:350k people live in Cardiff, 500k in Gwent 240k in Swansea, 180k live in Carmarthenshire.

If you are going to use "Gwent" as point, no doubt used by one of the Dragons supporters on here to strengthen their own ends.  Then you should consider the county Swansea is in. There are twice as many people living in and around Swansea than there is in Newport. In fact Newport, for me, is just another suburb of Cardiff.

You should contact the WRU, Dowlais. They'll feel like such fools when they realise they've bought out a region based in a suburb.


They should just merge them. It makes more sense. Very Happy

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:37 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

They have over £400k worth of assets

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Post by Stone Motif on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

Tell me again what bail out they've had
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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:39 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

They have over £400k worth of assets

One of those assets will soon be playing for Bath if the reports are to be believed, and if we are going by players, then Ospreys have far, far more assets.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

They have over £400k worth of assets

One of those assets will soon be playing for Bath if the reports are to be believed, and if we are going by players, then Ospreys have far, far more assets.

We're not talking players thumbsup

marty2086

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:40 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

Tell me again what bail out they've had

Who has said anything about a bail out ?

Only two regions have been bailed out, the constant failures from Newport, and Scarlets.

LordDowlais

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 06 Mar 2019, 12:41 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I find it disgusting that people on the NHS are not getting annual pay rises in Wales, yet the Welsh government are willing to put 12 million pounds into a rugby project.

Just when I think you can't write anything more stupid

Like you have above genius.

tell me again about this asset that Cardiff Blues have. Rolling Eyes

They have over £400k worth of assets

One of those assets will soon be playing for Bath if the reports are to be believed, and if we are going by players, then Ospreys have far, far more assets.

We're not talking players thumbsup

Then what are you talking about ?

Cardiff Blues do not even own their own clubhouse.

LordDowlais

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