Cardiff Blues - Rugby Thread

[Newsilure]

First topic message reminder :

I was going to comment on the other Blues thread but it seems to have more to do with football, names and bitterness than rugby.

This time last year I was very concerned about the Blues, we had a small and aging squad, our coach had announced his intention to quit and our financial situation looked precarious. The only, and huge, positive was that we were playing an attractive and reasonably successful brand of rugby. A year on the financial mire still hasn't improved but we have a much more vibrant youth led squad, a coach that seems to know what he is doing and we are still playing an attractive and reasonably successful brand of rugby.

To a degree we have done what the Scarlets did several years back and developed a good element of the team through a successful academy system and have also leaned heavily on  Pontypridd's continuing ability to produce rugby talent. After what seemed a millennium of relying on the great Tau Filise and the equally great, although more absent, Gethin, we seem to have created a promising prop factory with an excellent crop of young props including Dylan Lewis, Domachowski, Assiratti and the very entertaining Rhys Carre. Similarly this year it has been fantastic to see the young backs take centre stage with Jarrod Evans, Tomos Williams, Harry Millard, Owen Lane and the slightly more experienced Summerhill and Smith all progressing well.

Unfortunately, and again like the Scarlets, I am afraid we are going to find that the well of home grown talent, especially in the forwards, is unlikely to provide enough to challenge regularly at the top end of the Pro 14 let alone the European cup. This time last year we needed a dominant second row, an additional number 8 and a additional hooker, that is still the case. It looks like we might be joined by one or two international backs, such as Josh Adams and or Hallam Amos, which will be very welcome and will build on our entertaining style of play, but without  bolstering in the pack will they make much difference to the results? Scoring more tries is only good if you stop the opposition scoring lots as well, without that its pretty pointless, as just demonstrated very well by England compared to Wales in the 6 nations.

[PhilBB]

I see that you're still a disingenuous liar.

Phil you cannot keep calling people who do not agree with what you say liars all the time. Especially when you are sometimes "loose" with the truth yourself.

It's not a disagreement when it is a statement of fact.

[PhilBB]

I see that you're still a disingenuous liar.

Phil you cannot keep calling people who do not agree with what you say liars all the time. Especially when you are sometimes "loose" with the truth yourself.

I write "I didn't "blame the ref", by the way. The boss of the referees - Greg Garner - did that. You know their boss. Their boss. Right? Do you understand this?"

He replies "I see you're still blaming the ref."

To call him out on that as a "disingenuous liar" is fair game. It's there for all to see.

And you couldn't post a link to support your claim that I'm "loose" with the truth, either, so you can retract that now.

[mikey_dragon]

I'm not sure why you're still struggling Phil, it really is quite a simple point of view. You keep replying with your opinion and repeating yourself - that doesn't make it an irrefutable fact. If they've gone backwards then they've gone backwards (for reasons I've already mentioned), again it's quite simple. Cardiff have the opportunity to better themselves in the domestic league by the end of the season (not right now which is where you're confused). No sane person would discount the European games; are Toulouse and Gloucester not good teams? Hmmm unless you're just trying to be right again, in which you can't be as neither of us are wrong. It's a point of view .

On to your next comment... pathetic. Delusional dismissal of reality by trying to cover your teams failings. Refer back to the match thread, Glasgow also had players missing. Also, here is your lineup - it is a competitive team like I mentioned (as were Glasgow) and you were way off the pace: https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/cardiff-blues-vs-glasgow/teams/88987
are you really complaining about losing third choice and over the hill players like Jenkins, Rees? Some more bad excuses. There is your proof that your budget argument doesn't stand up. Cardiff lose by 60 "Cardiff did very well. Their budget is one quarter of the opposition budget, so they're punching above their weight. As long as we continue to lose just by 60 everything is fine and rosy."

Onto your third point you fool, the team GIVEN to JM hasn't progressed. What the hell is he doing down there, cleaning toilets?

[mikey_dragon]

I see that you're still a disingenuous liar.

Phil you cannot keep calling people who do not agree with what you say liars all the time. Especially when you are sometimes "loose" with the truth yourself.

It's not a disagreement when it is a statement of fact.

It's a discussion forum though. Your opinion isn't fact. Stop ruining threads with your deceitful comments regarding budgetary analysis because you're coming across as a major delusional. Hopefully the real Cardiff fans can stop by some time and discuss rugby with the rest of us adults.

[PhilBB]

I'm not sure why you're still struggling Phil, it really is quite a simple point of view.

It is simple, yes. From a simple source. And it's simply wrong.

[PhilBB]

No sane person would discount the European games; are Toulouse and Gloucester not good teams? Hmmm unless you're just trying to be right again, in which you can't be as neither of us are wrong. It's a point of view .

No sane person would claim Gloucester to be as good as Saracens, would they? That's why beating Gloucester but losing to Saracens isn't "going backwards".

If you're sane, of course.

[PhilBB]

On to your next comment... pathetic. Delusional dismissal of reality by trying to cover your teams failings. Refer back to the match thread, Glasgow also had players missing. Also, here is your lineup - it is a competitive team like I mentioned (as were Glasgow) and you were way off the pace: https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/cardiff-blues-vs-glasgow/teams/88987
are you really complaining about losing third choice and over the hill players like Jenkins, Rees? Some more bad excuses. There is your proof that your budget argument doesn't stand up. Cardiff lose by 60 "Cardiff did very well. Their budget is one quarter of the opposition budget, so they're punching above their weight. As long as we continue to lose just by 60 everything is fine and rosy."

Onto your third point you fool, the team GIVEN to JM hasn't progressed. What the hell is he doing down there, cleaning toilets?

Glasgow have a higher budget, which gives them greater strength in depth, which means they can better afford to miss a few players than can Cardiff.

You really are as thick as mince if you can't see that 2 points behind last year's league position with three games to go isn't a progression.

[PhilBB]

It's a discussion forum though. Your opinion isn't fact. Stop ruining threads with your deceitful comments regarding budgetary analysis because you're coming across as a major delusional. Hopefully the real Cardiff fans can stop by some time and discuss rugby with the rest of us adults.

The rugby shows that they've progressed, as their league standing proves.

If you want to portray yourself as an adult then try to show some level of thinking beyond Key Stage 4 analysis and stop lying.

Of course, if this is actually the best that you've got and you genuinely believe a team has gone backwards (by being 2 points off its final league points of last season with three games to go) then so be it. You're just as thick as mince and wilfully happy to ignore all evidence. You're just prejudicial.

Your call.

[Eejit]

I meant to ask out of curiosity, but how many wingers were the Blues planning on playing next season and are the aware you can only really start two of them at a time. Their backline next season is going to be absolutely terrifying.

[LondonTiger]

I meant to ask out of curiosity, but how many wingers were the Blues planning on playing next season and are the aware you can only really start two of them at a time. Their backline next season is going to be absolutely terrifying.

Thanks for trying to move this back to rugby and away from a plethora of name calling.

Mikey & Phil argue as much as you like, but cease with the direct insults please.

[PhilBB]

I meant to ask out of curiosity, but how many wingers were the Blues planning on playing next season and are the aware you can only really start two of them at a time. Their backline next season is going to be absolutely terrifying.

Adams won't be around for much of next season.

[PhilBB]

Mikey & Phil argue as much as you like, but cease with the direct insults please.

How else should you address "thinking" that believes a team has gone backwards because it once beat Gloucester but then lost to Saracens? Or how being 2 points off last season's league total, with THREE games to go, is "proof" of a team having "gone backwards"?

What's left when the other party won't see reason, won't accept fact and can't produce a coherent or logical argument?

Call it out for what it is, or just silently point and laugh?

[LondonTiger]

Mikey & Phil argue as much as you like, but cease with the direct insults please.

How else should you address "thinking" that believes a team has gone backwards because it once beat Gloucester but then lost to Saracens? Or how being 2 points off last season's league total, with THREE games to go, is "proof" of a team having "gone backwards"?

What's left when the other party won't see reason, won't accept fact and can't produce a coherent or logical argument?

Call it out for what it is, or just silently point and laugh?

You can continue to disparage the argument - just try to avoid calling people stupid, mad or liars.

So:

"That argument makes no sense because xyz" = good

"You are a stupid, mad, disingenuous liar who belongs in an asylum for the criminally insane" - not good.



We all at times struggle to understand how anyone can not see our point of view, and there are some disagreements that will never be solved. All we can then do is to try and stop them becoming overly personal.

[PhilBB]

"That argument makes no sense because xyz" = good

And when the other party behaves as "Mikey" does when presented with logic, fact and reason?

[mikey_dragon]

No sane person would discount the European games; are Toulouse and Gloucester not good teams? Hmmm unless you're just trying to be right again, in which you can't be as neither of us are wrong. It's a point of view .

No sane person would claim Gloucester to be as good as Saracens, would they? That's why beating Gloucester but losing to Saracens isn't "going backwards".

If you're sane, of course.

Who claimed that? There you go lying again after accusing everyone else of doing it. Getting thrashed home and away by Saracens Glasgow is going backwards.

[mikey_dragon]

On to your next comment... pathetic. Delusional dismissal of reality by trying to cover your teams failings. Refer back to the match thread, Glasgow also had players missing. Also, here is your lineup - it is a competitive team like I mentioned (as were Glasgow) and you were way off the pace: https://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/cardiff-blues-vs-glasgow/teams/88987
are you really complaining about losing third choice and over the hill players like Jenkins, Rees? Some more bad excuses. There is your proof that your budget argument doesn't stand up. Cardiff lose by 60 "Cardiff did very well. Their budget is one quarter of the opposition budget, so they're punching above their weight. As long as we continue to lose just by 60 everything is fine and rosy."

Onto your third point you fool, the team GIVEN to JM hasn't progressed. What the hell is he doing down there, cleaning toilets?

Glasgow have a higher budget, which gives them greater strength in depth, which means they can better afford to miss a few players than can Cardiff.

You really are as thick as mince if you can't see that 2 points behind last year's league position with three games to go isn't a progression.

Oh dear are you still repeating yourself? Just re-read it, I'm not repeating myself.

[mikey_dragon]

It's a discussion forum though. Your opinion isn't fact. Stop ruining threads with your deceitful comments regarding budgetary analysis because you're coming across as a major delusional. Hopefully the real Cardiff fans can stop by some time and discuss rugby with the rest of us adults.

The rugby shows that they've progressed, as their league standing proves.

If you want to portray yourself as an adult then try to show some level of thinking beyond Key Stage 4 analysis and stop lying.

Of course, if this is actually the best that you've got and you genuinely believe a team has gone backwards (by being 2 points off its final league points of last season with three games to go) then so be it. You're just as thick as mince and wilfully happy to ignore all evidence. You're just prejudicial.

Your call.

I actually alluded to more than just the league position. Again, I suggest you go back and read it. Stop ruining the thread it's pathetic.

[mikey_dragon]

Mikey & Phil argue as much as you like, but cease with the direct insults please.

How else should you address "thinking" that believes a team has gone backwards because it once beat Gloucester but then lost to Saracens? Or how being 2 points off last season's league total, with THREE games to go, is "proof" of a team having "gone backwards"?

What's left when the other party won't see reason, won't accept fact and can't produce a coherent or logical argument?

Call it out for what it is, or just silently point and laugh?

You can continue to disparage the argument - just try to avoid calling people stupid, mad or liars.

So:

"That argument makes no sense because xyz" = good

"You are a stupid, mad, disingenuous liar who belongs in an asylum for the criminally insane" - not good.



We all at times struggle to understand how anyone can not see our point of view, and there are some disagreements that will never be solved. All we can then do is to try and stop them becoming overly personal.

I wouldn't bother wasting your time with the like of Phil, LT. He's misquoted me again and looking to pass it off as 'fact' - I would ask him to go back and read it but then I'm at risk of doing a Phil by repeating myself over and over because somebody wouldn't agree with me.

[mikey_dragon]

I meant to ask out of curiosity, but how many wingers were the Blues planning on playing next season and are the aware you can only really start two of them at a time. Their backline next season is going to be absolutely terrifying.

Adams and Amos will be wing/full back, probably taking the place of Summerhill, with Lane on the other wing. Morgan and Anscombe are also there to cover 15. The other wing is Jason Harries. It's good depth to have as a few of them will be on international duty.

[PhilBB]

No sane person would discount the European games; are Toulouse and Gloucester not good teams? Hmmm unless you're just trying to be right again, in which you can't be as neither of us are wrong. It's a point of view .

No sane person would claim Gloucester to be as good as Saracens, would they? That's why beating Gloucester but losing to Saracens isn't "going backwards".

If you're sane, of course.

Who claimed that? There you go lying again after accusing everyone else of doing it. Getting thrashed home and away by Saracens Glasgow is going backwards.

You claimed that, by the logic you promoted. Losing to Saracens and Glasgow is not going backwards from beating Gloucester.

Why? Because Glasgow and Saracens are better than Glasgow.

This is something even a child could work out. Saracens are 12 points ahead of Gloucester in the GP and in the semi final of the Champions Cup.

[PhilBB]

Oh dear are you still repeating yourself? Just re-read it, I'm not repeating myself.

You shouldn't be repeating yourself. You should be admitting your error in thinking.

[PhilBB]

I actually alluded to more than just the league position. Again, I suggest you go back and read it. Stop ruining the thread it's pathetic.

I know you used more than the league position. You claimed losing to Saracens is "going backwards" if you've beaten Gloucester.

[PhilBB]

I meant to ask out of curiosity, but how many wingers were the Blues planning on playing next season and are the aware you can only really start two of them at a time. Their backline next season is going to be absolutely terrifying.

Adams and Amos will be wing/full back, probably taking the place of Summerhill, with Lane on the other wing. Morgan and Anscombe are also there to cover 15. The other wing is Jason Harries. It's good depth to have as a few of them will be on international duty.

There's no guarantee Anscombe will be there next season.

[mikey_dragon]

I actually alluded to more than just the league position. Again, I suggest you go back and read it. Stop ruining the thread it's pathetic.

I know you used more than the league position. You claimed losing to Saracens is "going backwards" if you've beaten Gloucester.

Nope, never said that. Re-read and try again, I’m not a parrot like you.

[Eejit]

Cardiff team for Munster away should be announced today you’d think. Obviously a huge game for the hunt for third place and Connacht are away to Zebre in an easier game than this one.

Munster will be battered and bruised after a physical European Quarter final and I wonder if they might rotate a little as the semis are the week after week so they may wish to limit game time on some of their bigger players.

[PhilBB]

Yeah hooray, now you're getting it.

It's based on RESULTS and the performance at times hasn't looked good at all. Stop blaming the ref.

Last season they were 10 points ahead of the team below them and secured champions cup rugby, and were only one less win from the team above them. Given the fixture list it's plausible that Cardiff may lose the rest of their games this season - but I hope that you win them all for the sake of Welsh rugby, then it would be difficult to say that the team has gone backwards. Let us not forget that Cardiff won more games in Europe last season, and actually won the tournament... JM inherited this winning team and so far has been out of his depth.
This season you've been thrashed by Glasgow 4 times, that isn't improvement, sadly. Good to see you've stopped blaming it on budgets though, you've moved on to blaming refs. When Cardiff field their best team, a team packed with talented individuals, internationals; and they're playing against another good team with an equal amount of talent then your budget excuse doesn't stand up.

I also take it you finally looked at your squad, well done.

There you are claiming losing to Saracens is "going backwards", because you can't be comparing the victories over Lyon with last year's victories over Lyon. And it can't be a complaint about losing to Glasgow as Cardiff twice lost to Glasgow last season, too.

So the other differential are the games against Saracens. You see? This is where fact and logic shows how empty is your prejudice.

As for results - let's remember they are two points off their total from last season, with three games to go. Therefore, it's not possible to claim they've "gone backwards".

[PhilBB]

To the actual rugby:

Cardiff are playing Munster tomorrow evening with Mitrea as referee. Munster have never lost at home with Mitrea as referee and they have an 82% win ratio with him reffing them. P17, W14

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=19&competitionsID=1 Mitrea's Munster record
http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/ref_by_nationality_of_teams.php?refereeID=60&countryID=3 list of games there.

Cardiff have a 30% win ratio when refereed by Mitrea P10, W 3 http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=1&competitionsID=1

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah hooray, now you're getting it.

It's based on RESULTS and the performance at times hasn't looked good at all. Stop blaming the ref.

Last season they were 10 points ahead of the team below them and secured champions cup rugby, and were only one less win from the team above them. Given the fixture list it's plausible that Cardiff may lose the rest of their games this season - but I hope that you win them all for the sake of Welsh rugby, then it would be difficult to say that the team has gone backwards. Let us not forget that Cardiff won more games in Europe last season, and actually won the tournament... JM inherited this winning team and so far has been out of his depth.
This season you've been thrashed by Glasgow 4 times, that isn't improvement, sadly. Good to see you've stopped blaming it on budgets though, you've moved on to blaming refs. When Cardiff field their best team, a team packed with talented individuals, internationals; and they're playing against another good team with an equal amount of talent then your budget excuse doesn't stand up.

I also take it you finally looked at your squad, well done.

There you are claiming losing to Saracens is "going backwards", because you can't be comparing the victories over Lyon with last year's victories over Lyon. And it can't be a complaint about losing to Glasgow as Cardiff twice lost to Glasgow last season, too.

So the other differential are the games against Saracens. You see? This is where fact and logic shows how empty is your prejudice.

As for results - let's remember they are two points off their total from last season, with three games to go. Therefore, it's not possible to claim they've "gone backwards".

There we are so I didn’t say “You claimed losing to Saracens is "going backwards" if you've beaten Gloucester” then. That was you lying again as you’re trying to be right about something that isn’t there, not much going on at home I take it? I didn’t mention Lyon either, again that was you.

If Cardiff don’t win another game they’ve gone backwards. If they do win another game then it can still be argued they’ve gone backwards, as overall they still won more games last year and it was against good opposition- the only one trying to dismiss opposition is you. If you went back and re-read you would see that I already explained it to you.

[mikey_dragon]

To the actual rugby:

Cardiff are playing Munster tomorrow evening with Mitrea as referee. Munster have never lost at home with Mitrea as referee and they have an 82% win ratio with him reffing them. P17, W14

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=19&competitionsID=1 Mitrea's Munster record
http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/ref_by_nationality_of_teams.php?refereeID=60&countryID=3 list of games there.

Cardiff have a 30% win ratio when refereed by Mitrea P10, W 3 http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=1&competitionsID=1

Pre-emptive ref-blaming.

[PhilBB]

There we are so I didn’t say “You claimed losing to Saracens is "going backwards" if you've beaten Gloucester” then.

Erm, that was the entire structure of your argument when you claimed they'd gone backwards with regards to Europe. Remember? You wrote how they'd won the Challenge Cup the year previous but were now out at the Group Stage? Therefore, the conclusion of that argument is they've gone backwards by losing to Saracens after beating Gloucester.

That's the natural conclusion of your moronic argument, one you now can't even recognise yourself.

[PhilBB]

If Cardiff don’t win another game they’ve gone backwards. If they do win another game then it can still be argued they’ve gone backwards, as overall they still won more games last year and it was against good opposition- the only one trying to dismiss opposition is you. If you went back and re-read you would see that I already explained it to you.

Now you've pathetically wriggled to IF they don't win another game they've gone backwards. You've shamelessly written that after being firm in your own (false) opinion that they had gone backwards.

This year they've won 10 league games. Last year they won 11. There are still three games to go this season.

Therefore, and here's the killer for you after bull you wrote about Europe, you're only noting "they won more games last year" because you're counting the greater number of victories they had in Europe. For that logic to be worthwhile, you're claiming they've gone backwards because they managed to beat Gloucester but lose to Saracens. You know? The very claim that you just wrote you didn't make.

This reasoning and logic stuff seems to be well beyond your abilities, as your opinion is so easy to disprove.

[PhilBB]

To the actual rugby:

Cardiff are playing Munster tomorrow evening with Mitrea as referee. Munster have never lost at home with Mitrea as referee and they have an 82% win ratio with him reffing them. P17, W14

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=19&competitionsID=1 Mitrea's Munster record
http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/ref_by_nationality_of_teams.php?refereeID=60&countryID=3 list of games there.

Cardiff have a 30% win ratio when refereed by Mitrea P10, W 3 http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/best_ref_team.php?clubID=1&competitionsID=1

Pre-emptive ref-blaming.

With stats. To prove it. You know - evidence. The thing that you're a stranger to as your opinion is prejudiced based.

[PhilBB]

Munster are 2/9 with Betfair.

Cardiff 11/4

They know Mitrea is reffing.

[mikey_dragon]

Phil you creating arguments that I didn’t argue is getting tiresome. You’re coming across as not being all there so maybe get someone to help you out. You’re also being a scummy liar and getting offensive when someone doesn’t agree with your lowlife lies. I suggest you stop as you’ve crossed the line by stooping to this scumbag level. Go back and read it and try not to convince yourself that something else was said.

[mikey_dragon]

Well, more underachievement unfortunately.

[mikey_dragon]

More excuses for Anscombe being ousted at fly-half, again.

If Blues aren't in the champions cup next season then is Mulvihill's first season considered a failure?

Oh here it is, the argument that I proposed around a week ago and the same argument I've been consistent in pushing. Another lie and accusation by phil trumped then.

[mikey_dragon]

Anscombe going, which may free up some budget for a LH, Lock, No.8 - each of which needs to be a carrying option. How does the leader of the 'best region' respond to this? By trying to bring in another 7 despite having Jenkins, Navidi and Robinson at 7 already.

[mikey_dragon]

Mulvihill blames ref again. Phil where are you? Everything I've said has come true.

[RugbyFan100]

Reports that the WRU have blocked Nick Williams signing for Cardiff for another year - when he is the only out and out no.8 at the club.

The WRU are a disgrace.

Unions should have zero say in how domestic rugby is run, let alone how squads are made up. Utterly pathetic.

[Guest]

No issue with the WRU doing this. But they should buy all the regions and centrally contract if they want to pull that move.

[RugbyFan100]

No issue with the WRU doing this. But they should buy all the regions and centrally contract if they want to pull that move.

Well that would be the death of Welsh domestic rugby, but I get your point.

[mikey_dragon]

Reports that the WRU have blocked Nick Williams signing for Cardiff for another year - when he is the only out and out no.8 at the club.

The WRU are a disgrace.

Unions should have zero say in how domestic rugby is run, let alone how squads are made up. Utterly pathetic.

Yeah that idea is a bit of a shocker, but both parties are to blame. Why on earth are Cardiff seeking another No.7? In spite of losing Warburton they have three very good ones already. It's No.8 they need cover. Williams is Cardiff's only decent ball carrier and brings a good balance to a back-row that often plays with two open-sides. It's as if the union don't watch the regions play rugby when they're trying to pull a move like this. If anything it should be Olly Robinson to go seeing as no welsh team needs another open-side.

[LondonTiger]

Lots of press about the Blues financial results for year to 30 June 2018. Full report can be read here:

Blues Accounts with Company House

Some key points:

1) breakdown of costs and income not provided
2) Operating Loss £1.3m
3) £750k further costs for interest etc
4) Over £4m of debt owed to Directors written off.
5) Lease commitments that cannot be cancelled of £2.1m - £400k Arms Park, £1.7m Vale of Glamorgan



Slightly worryingly these accounts were delivered just over 5 weeks late (9th May vs 31st March due date)

[mikey_dragon]

You’ll wake up Phil from his hibernation with truth like that, only for him to claim everything is fine and rosy in Cardiff before returning to his slumber.

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