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Pro 14 Run in, who finishes where

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Post by Brendan on Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Current Standings (Position overall log)

Conference A
2 Glasgow 71(2) Leinster (a), Edinburgh (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
3 Munster 68 (3) Benetton (a), Connacht (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
5 Connacht 56 (4) Blues (h), Munster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
6 Blues 52 (6) Connacht (a), Ospreys (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
10 Ospreys 49 (9) Kings (a), Blues (a) T3=0 M=1 B3=1
11 Cheetahs 36 (11) Dragons (h), Kings (h) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
14 Zebre 19 (14) Scarlets (a), Benetton (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

Conference B
1 Leinster 74 (1) Glasgow (h), Ulster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
4 Ulster 54 (5) Edinburgh (a), Leinster (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
7 Benetton 52 (7) Munster (h), Zebre (a) T3=1 M=0 B3=1
8 Edinburgh 51 (8) Ulster (h), Glasgow (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
9 Scarlets 45 (10) Zebre (h), Dragons (a) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
12 Kings 22 (12) Ospreys (h), Cheetahs (a) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
13 Dragons 21 (13) Cheetahs (a), Scarlets (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

In the Conference System
First - Home Semi, Glasgow (+3), Leinster (confirmed)
Second - Home Quarter, Munster (+12), Ulster (+2)
Third - Quarterfinal, Connacht (+4), Benetton (+1)

Champs Cup playoff
Home (Highest fourth) Blues (+3)
Away Edinburgh (+6)

Wooden Spoon
Zebre (-2)

Home Semi is confirmed as Leinster with Glasgow or Munster taking the other spot.
Home Quarter seems to be the loser of Munster/Glasgow and any of Bennetton, Ulster or Edinburgh
The last spot in the quarters look a shootout between Connacht and Blues.

If you add in Ospreys with an outside chance of Champs Cup there are 7 teams fighting for the remaining 4 places.  If any of the Pro14 teams win either Euro then the highest placed fourth gets the spot and 5th in the Conference goes into the playoff (unless that team winning don't make the playoffs i.e. Edinburgh)

The wooden spoon will be an interesting fight with 3 teams only divided by 2 points.  The Kings seem to have the up hand due to their ability to get Bps.

This has backed up last year of the middle teams really after upping their game and making every game from now till the end a game of meaning for both team (such as Connacht v Bennetton this week is bad for the losing team, for the winner they might still be on a knife edge)

What are people predictions for the final standings.

The Fixtures show Edinburgh with the hardest run in playing two of the top 3 teams and none of the bottom three.  Scarlets on the other hand have none of the top 3 but 2 of the bottom 3 as do Cheetahs. Ospreys play 3 of the bottom 4 plus the Blues so could close the gap on the Blues. They are on a 6 game losing streak in all competitions so might not be any help.


Last edited by Brendan on Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:30 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:19 am

BigGee wrote:
Yes in theory some teams might have some slight advantage by playing last.

Thanks. That's all I was after.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:25 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
BigGee wrote:
Yes in theory some teams might have some slight advantage by playing last.

Thanks. That's all I was after.

This has already been pointed out, some also have an advantage kicking off at the same time this seems too complicated for some to grasp though

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Post by BamBam on Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:37 am

What if it rains in Italy at 5pm but its sunny in Wales at 3pm. That's also an advantage for Scarlets needing a bonus point. Its just unacceptable, the Pro14 needs to sort the weather out

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:12 pm

BigGee wrote:I think the main point here is that leagues are won over a season, not in one game at the end of it.

That doesn't really help the league's cause, though.

Because the league is played during international tournaments. It sees certain teams pick basically a 2nd or 3rd team against certain teams, knowing they can scrape by - others are severely hampered by the test period games and suffer accordingly.

It's quite clear that Treviso would be a good 10-15 points worse off if teams played them at full strength: whether through a combination of rotation or weakened through the AI/6Ns game.

Adding the staggered games at the tail end of an already messy and inherently 'unfair' league system (as pointed out, it's 5 Unions providing teams with different purposes/approaches) is just the cherry on top of a league that is a mess.

Until every game has the sense of 'equality' to it in the most fundamental way, allowing teams to have a fair crack at winning/losing the match on their own terms and finishing on their own terms, the league has issues. The refereeing standards are another issue there. That's obvious.

Any poster suggesting otherwise is being deliberately contrarian because, presumably, they don't care as long as their team is doing well?

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:19 pm

marty2086 wrote:Well then have a word with the regions who want a big pay day from playing at the Principality

Fairly certain this is the first time it's been on the last day of the season - as per the new fixture list which sees derbies fall on the last day of the season (but not Boxing Day or NYD - ridiculous!).

Ask Premier Sports/EIR Sports/Pro14 why they're having derbies on the last day of the season instead.

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:23 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Make it fair it all games kick of at the same team - so 4 teams on the pitch in Cardiff at the same time.

This staggered kick of schedule is, in large part, due to Wales insisting on the big day in the Millenium
Scarlets and Treviso have to go out and aim for a bonus point win - that would be no different if all games kicked off at the same time

How on earth has this been upvoted. You're just making things up.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:26 pm

miaow wrote:
BigGee wrote:I think the main point here is that leagues are won over a season, not in one game at the end of it.

That doesn't really help the league's cause, though.

Because the league is played during international tournaments. It sees certain teams pick basically a 2nd or 3rd team against certain teams, knowing they can scrape by - others are severely hampered by the test period games and suffer accordingly.

It's quite clear that Treviso would be a good 10-15 points worse off if teams played them at full strength: whether through a combination of rotation or weakened through the AI/6Ns game.

Adding the staggered games at the tail end of an already messy and inherently 'unfair' league system (as pointed out, it's 5 Unions providing teams with different purposes/approaches) is just the cherry on top of a league that is a mess.

Until every game has the sense of 'equality' to it in the most fundamental way, allowing teams to have a fair crack at winning/losing the match on their own terms and finishing on their own terms, the league has issues. The refereeing standards are another issue there. That's obvious.

Any poster suggesting otherwise is being deliberately contrarian because, presumably, they don't care as long as their team is doing well?

This really is some of the stupidest stuff I've read

Don't point out said stupidity or else I'll call you contrarian?picard

Because Benetton had no players playing Test rugby during the windows? Are you saying Dragons would have beaten Benetton in Italy? Or a full strength Benetton team aren't capable of beating anyone else?

Everyone knows the challenges they face and have to manage accordingly, the Premiership teams have to manage without their test players at times too.

Next you'll be complaining about Benetton or someone else having better training facilities and everyone should have exactly the same and do the exact same training regime

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:26 pm

miaow wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Make it fair it all games kick of at the same team - so 4 teams on the pitch in Cardiff at the same time.

This staggered kick of schedule is, in large part, due to Wales insisting on the big day in the Millenium
Scarlets and Treviso have to go out and aim for a bonus point win - that would be no different if all games kicked off at the same time

How on earth has this been upvoted. You're just making things up.

Yet you blame Premier Sports without anything to actually back it up

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:27 pm

miaow wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well then have a word with the regions who want a big pay day from playing at the Principality

Fairly certain this is the first time it's been on the last day of the season - as per the new fixture list which sees derbies fall on the last day of the season (but not Boxing Day or NYD - ridiculous!).

Ask Premier Sports/EIR Sports/Pro14 why they're having derbies on the last day of the season instead.

No...it happened last season too

Just goes to show how certain we can be about anything you say


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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:56 pm

marty2086 wrote:This really is some of the stupidest stuff I've read

Don't point out said stupidity or else I'll call you contrarian?picard

Because Benetton had no players playing Test rugby during the windows? Are you saying Dragons would have beaten Benetton in Italy? Or a full strength Benetton team aren't capable of beating anyone else?

Everyone knows the challenges they face and have to manage accordingly, the Premiership teams have to manage without their test players at times too.

Next you'll be complaining about Benetton or someone else having better training facilities and everyone should have exactly the same and do the exact same training regime

You're literally an example of 'don't argue with thick people'.

Something is either good, or it isn't good. There are varying shades between that.

Playing league games on international weekends/tournaments is obviously not good. That's been widely agreed for years.

Irrespective of how that actually impacts on individual teams, it's STILL. NOT. GOOD.

Some teams will benefit one season, others the next. Some will constantly suffer during these periods, others might consistently benefit. I'll repeat again though - it's still not a good thing.

We're talking about a league structure. You know, an independent league and how they structure their games. We're not talking about a club's training facilities.

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:04 pm

marty2086 wrote:
miaow wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well then have a word with the regions who want a big pay day from playing at the Principality

Fairly certain this is the first time it's been on the last day of the season - as per the new fixture list which sees derbies fall on the last day of the season (but not Boxing Day or NYD - ridiculous!).

Ask Premier Sports/EIR Sports/Pro14 why they're having derbies on the last day of the season instead.

No...it happened last season too

Just goes to show how certain we can be about anything you say


2013: Round 19 of 22
2014: Round 20 of 22
2015: Round 20 of 22
2016: Round 21 of 22
2017: Round 20 of 22
2018: Round 21 of 21

So I got one wrong - last season. I was 'fairly' certain based on what had gone before, which was an awareness that the MS game(s) had never been on the last day of the season in the previous years. It's why I qualified my statement rather than coming out flat out and saying it was fact.

It's a sad day when you flat out making stuff up about the WRU and the derbies falling on the last day is seen in the same category as a minor, and genuine, mistake.

Incidentally, the MS games only became the last game of the normal season when the SAs joined the league i.e. when the Pro14 restructured to accommodate the rather rushed inclusion of the new franchises, and completely changed the fixture list. Tacking this game on the end - as having the derbies as the last game of the season - is as much about avoiding travel issues with the SAs as it is any grand, cohesive plan. It's absolutely nothing to do with the WRU: clearly, they're happy to have it fall far enough for the 6Ns that people will want to attend, but 2/7 hardly points towards favouring it being the last day of the season...

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:06 pm

miaow wrote:
marty2086 wrote:This really is some of the stupidest stuff I've read

Don't point out said stupidity or else I'll call you contrarian?picard

Because Benetton had no players playing Test rugby during the windows? Are you saying Dragons would have beaten Benetton in Italy? Or a full strength Benetton team aren't capable of beating anyone else?

Everyone knows the challenges they face and have to manage accordingly, the Premiership teams have to manage without their test players at times too.

Next you'll be complaining about Benetton or someone else having better training facilities and everyone should have exactly the same and do the exact same training regime

You're literally an example of 'don't argue with thick people'.

Something is either good, or it isn't good. There are varying shades between that.

Playing league games on international weekends/tournaments is obviously not good. That's been widely agreed for years.

Irrespective of how that actually impacts on individual teams, it's STILL. NOT. GOOD.

Some teams will benefit one season, others the next. Some will constantly suffer during these periods, others might consistently benefit. I'll repeat again though - it's still not a good thing.

We're talking about a league structure. You know, an independent league and how they structure their games. We're not talking about a club's training facilities.

Except I never said it was good or bad, if you are going to have the arrogance to call others thick might be a good idea to grasp the point being made

You complained Treviso gained an advantage, I pointed out they were in fact also disadvantaged...they had 14 players called up by Italy during the 6Ns plus a number of injuries to key players.

Maybe you can explain why it's obvious that games shouldn't be played during test windows though since you are so intelligent

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:07 pm

Repeat after me, Marty: "I must not tell lies..."

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Post by Guest on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:08 pm

marty2086 wrote:Except I never said it was good or bad, if you are going to have the arrogance to call others thick might be a good idea to grasp the point being made

You complained Treviso gained an advantage, I pointed out they were in fact also disadvantaged...they had 14 players called up by Italy during the 6Ns plus a number of injuries to key players.

Maybe you can explain why it's obvious that games shouldn't be played during test windows though since you are so intelligent

I'm calling you thick as you're missing the point whilst remaining totally indignant - a classic sign of stupidity.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:12 pm

miaow wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
miaow wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well then have a word with the regions who want a big pay day from playing at the Principality

Fairly certain this is the first time it's been on the last day of the season - as per the new fixture list which sees derbies fall on the last day of the season (but not Boxing Day or NYD - ridiculous!).

Ask Premier Sports/EIR Sports/Pro14 why they're having derbies on the last day of the season instead.

No...it happened last season too

Just goes to show how certain we can be about anything you say


2013: Round 19 of 22
2014: Round 20 of 22
2015: Round 20 of 22
2016: Round 21 of 22
2017: Round 20 of 22
2018: Round 21 of 21

So I got one wrong - last season. I was 'fairly' certain based on what had gone before, which was an awareness that the MS game(s) had never been on the last day of the season in the previous years. It's why I qualified my statement rather than coming out flat out and saying it was fact.

It's a sad day when you flat out making stuff up about the WRU and the derbies falling on the last day is seen in the same category as a minor, and genuine, mistake.

Incidentally, the MS games only became the last game of the normal season when the SAs joined the league i.e. when the Pro14 restructured to accommodate the rather rushed inclusion of the new franchises, and completely changed the fixture list. Tacking this game on the end - as having the derbies as the last game of the season - is as much about avoiding travel issues with the SAs as it is any grand, cohesive plan. It's absolutely nothing to do with the WRU: clearly, they're happy to have it fall far enough for the 6Ns that people will want to attend, but 2/7 hardly points towards favouring it being the last day of the season...

And if you bothered reading back I clearly mentioned SA in a previous post, you left out the fact that the Welsh have numerous derbies throughout the season...Judgement Day could take place during any of those rounds but it's not

Judgement Day doesn't even have to take place but it does...who is it benefits from it happening? Who is being accommodated there?


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Post by marty2086 on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:13 pm

So I'm thick and a liar yet you can't seem to actually make your point

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Post by RDW on Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:18 pm

miaow - please refrain from personal abuse when trying to get an argument across - there's absolutely no need and a short term ban will follow if you persist.

This comment applies to everyone as a general warning.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:32 pm

I have archived everything that followed this warning. 

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Post by the-goon on Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:59 am

Treviso are 1 of the 3 hardest hit teams during the November tests and 6N along with Glasgow and Leinster, yet they still should make the playoffs.

I'm sure they would have liked their internationals on their tour to SA in Nov.

They also had to play Scarlets, Dragons and Edinburgh during the 6N, teams that are less affected than them by call ups. They beat them all, and the Dragons, who don't even lose players, had 50 put on them.

Please tell where the 10-15 points they shouldn't have earned came from.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:06 am

the-goon wrote: the Dragons, who don't even lose players


There's at least 4 Dragons players in the Wales squad.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:58 am

BigGee wrote:Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


Agree, Premier Sports is the best value for money package out there.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Fri Apr 26, 2019 9:59 am

the-goon wrote:Treviso are 1 of the 3 hardest hit teams during the November tests and 6N along with Glasgow and Leinster, yet they still should make the playoffs.

I'm sure they would have liked their internationals on their tour to SA in Nov.

They also had to play Scarlets, Dragons and Edinburgh during the 6N, teams that are less affected than them by call ups. They beat them all, and the Dragons, who don't even lose players, had 50 put on them.

Please tell where the 10-15 points they shouldn't have earned came from.

Yes if anything, losing internationals makes the team stronger overall. The experience gained by the stand-ins during the international windows makes up for losing players to injury in the regular season without the same drop off in team performance. It also allows the best players to be managed better so that the games they do play are at peak performance.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:02 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
BigGee wrote:Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


Agree, Premier Sports is the best value for money package out there.

Are you sure? I thought we discussed that Eir Sports is. As you get BT Sports included.

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Post by BigGee on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:07 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
BigGee wrote:Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


Agree, Premier Sports is the best value for money package out there.

Are you sure? I thought we discussed that Eir Sports is. As you get BT Sports included.

Maybe just the best value in the UK then!

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:48 am

the-goon wrote:Treviso are 1 of the 3 hardest hit teams during the November tests and 6N along with Glasgow and Leinster, yet they still should make the playoffs.

I'm sure they would have liked their internationals on their tour to SA in Nov.

They also had to play Scarlets, Dragons and Edinburgh during the 6N, teams that are less affected than them by call ups. They beat them all, and the Dragons, who don't even lose players, had 50 put on them.

Please tell where the 10-15 points they shouldn't have earned came from.

The Scarlets had 12 players called up to the initial squad. Not sure how much that number increased/decreased as the tournament went on, but they weree the best represented team in the Welsh squad. Even those who were in and out of the squad, like Hlafpenny, were held back from the last few games to see if they could make it in to the Wales squad for the England and Ireland games, rather than playing 20-40-60 minutes for his region. If Treviso had more - how many more?

But nevertheless, I'll tell you about the points. The TMO literally handed them the game. A combination of uselss refereeing and selective use of the television angles made the playing field as level as a cliff. That's an 8 point swing there. Add Leinster playing their reserves a few weeks back and drawing with them, that's another 2. So approx. 6 points worse off from those 2 games, with the Scarlets - the team that seems to be mentioned a lot here, and one that is obviously underperforming where Treviso are benefiting - being 4 points better off themselves.

But because it's not a league where other nations really watch other nations' games, you wouldn't know about the TMO call. You might have read about it on here, but it's just another case of 'Welsh whinging' about the refs, right?


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Post by LordDowlais on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:51 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
BigGee wrote:Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


Agree, Premier Sports is the best value for money package out there.

No it isn't. EIR Sports is. You know, the Irish version of Premier sports with twice the amount of British and Irish sports on it.

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Post by Eejit on Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:59 am

So miaow starts calling people that disagree with him names again

LordDowlais making the exact same arguments that he's made on countless others threads again

None of which has anything to do with Pro14 final standings. I think there's a few other threads on these boards you guys haven't ruined yet.

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:01 am

What names have I called anyone?

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Post by Eejit on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:03 am

miaow wrote:What names have I called anyone?

Oh hey, who do you think will finish fourth, Cardiff or Ospreys? Whistle

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:10 am



Need to have a chat with 7.5 and stop making things up.

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Post by Eejit on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:13 am

I suppose the warning you got yesterday was unfair then was it? What happened, did someone say something you didn't like and you were unpleasant again just like you've done before? Just can't take it can you.

You never answered my perfectly valid question either. Cardiff or Ospreys - big game this weekend!

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:17 am

You said again. Just don't tell lies and it's all fine.

Talking about rugby are we? On a rugby forum?

Ospreys will beat the Blues.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:23 am

miaow wrote:What names have I called anyone?

Headscratch

miaow wrote:
You're literally an example of 'don't argue with thick people'.

Whistle

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Post by Eejit on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:25 am

Mate you were doing the exact same to myself and others on that ridiculous dead Pro14 thread last week. I'll reluctantly dig it out if you want to continue this charade. Stop calling people names and its all fine.

I agree about Ospreys, and it wouldn't surprise me if they did Scarlets in the Champions Cup qualifier in a few weeks time too. A remarkable turnaround for them considering where they were earlier in the season.

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:26 am

Eejit wrote:So miaow starts calling people that disagree with him names again

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:28 am

I think that's reasonable. The Scarlets have stuttered all season. Probably hammer the Dragons then fold if they make the play-off sport.

Ospreys' key men are better/more important than the Blues'. AWJ, Tipuric, North etc.

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Post by the-goon on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:30 am

Treviso had 20 players in the Italian squad, many of which are 1st choice and 1st reserve in their positions, so Treviso would be playing 3rd choice players in those games.

As for Leinster "B" team, a weaker Leinster team put 50 on the Dragons (with their Welsh lads) and the O's. They deserve their 2 points there.

Also, if they had a kinder schedule, they could have travelled to SA outside the international window and picked a stronger team and got 10 points rather than 5. So there are some extra points.

I can play that game as well.

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:40 am

You're missing the point. The league is devalued because certain teams rotate heavily. It doesn't matter if the Dragons are absolute dunk - everyone knows that, including the Dragons. It means playing 'Leinster' doesn't always mean you're playing 'LEINSTER'...as was the case with Treviso.

I'd say Cheetahs aren't far off Treviso. Going away from home - anything but a guaranteed 5 points, that's ridiculous.

Treviso clearly do suffer from test call-ups, moreso than most. It would be interesting to see how many of those are released in the run-up to a test match - I'm guessing Italy doesn't keep 20 Treviso players away from the club. But it doesn't offset all the other factors you're conveniently ignoring - not least the refereeing.

It's not a game. But thanks for confirming you're treating it as such and just being contrarian rather than listening and trying to understand. No point continuing the discussion.

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Post by the-goon on Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:17 pm

Welsh blaming the refs in the pro 14 for their regions failures. Heard it here first.

Yeah, no point. You're just whinging, and bitter that Treviso are better than all 4 Welsh teams, at least this season.

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Post by Guest on Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:38 pm

Excellent stuff. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, as for the rugby. Think there might be one or two shocks coming tomorrow. I can see Edinburgh shocking Glasgow, for one.

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Post by Brendan on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:25 pm

The teams that rotate the most seem to do the best.  Edinburgh are case in point of what happens when you don't rotate smartly.  They lost to the Dragons, Zebre and Kings.  If they had done better rotating they would be better off.

The 3 top Welsh teams have underperformed this year for different reasons.  Will be interesting to see what happens to the Blues when they lose Anscombe.

Benetton are there on merit.  Over 20 games they sit 3rd in their Conference.  Every team has faced weaken teamed. Playing Leinster Seconds in Dublin is still a hard game.  Every team has gained and lost from ref decisions. Over the season they have out performed the two below them. Edinburgh are where they are due to the three easy games they lost. Scarlets lost at home to Edinburgh while being on top for the first half. They also got beaten comfortably by the Blues twice. If the two teams look at themselves they will see plenty of missed chances.

If we are serious about wanting teams to be compeditive we have to assume our team might miss out as a result. We go on about we want teams to be compeditive but I guess not so much that they get above their station.

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Post by Brendan on Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:33 pm

Also the setup of the final round tomorrow shows that the Irish set things up in the league to suit themselves.  While all the other teams are scrapping over a few spots the Irish for the most part can take the week off.

With Munster needing 5pts they gave them a home match against the weakest Irish team.  They also set it up that the team they were fighting it out with (Glasgow) would have one of the hardest games of their season (Will they ever get that cup back)

Why must the Irish ruin everything boxing

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:41 am

Brendan wrote:The teams that rotate the most seem to do the best.  Edinburgh are case in point of what happens when you don't rotate smartly.  They lost to the Dragons, Zebre and Kings.  If they had done better rotating they would be better off.

The 3 top Welsh teams have underperformed this year for different reasons.  Will be interesting to see what happens to the Blues when they lose Anscombe.

Benetton are there on merit.  Over 20 games they sit 3rd in their Conference.  Every team has faced weaken teamed. Playing Leinster Seconds in Dublin is still a hard game.  Every team has gained and lost from ref decisions.  Over the season they have out performed the two below them.  Edinburgh are where they are due to the three easy games they lost. Scarlets lost at home to Edinburgh while being on top for the first half. They also got beaten comfortably by the Blues twice.  If the two teams look at themselves they will see plenty of missed chances.

If we are serious about wanting teams to be compeditive we have to assume our team might miss out as a result.  We go on about we want teams to be compeditive but I guess not so much that they get above their station.
They have Jarrod Evans at 10 who looks better than Anscombe. If they aren't recruiting then Matthew Morgan will probably also play 10. Blues always have good youngsters coming through the ranks and it was vital to their progression to bring in a good coach, something they failed to do. Likewise Ospreys except they don't seem to be bringing through much international class from their academy right now. These teams won't progress until they bring in better coaches. Scarlets have had around 14 injuries through most of the season and most of them were in the back 5, even Leinster would struggle to deal with that. Some sensible recruitment (Lousi, Thomson) and players returning should see them move forward; interested to see if the incoming coach struggles or hits the ground running. It should be the latter with the players available to him.

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Post by Brendan on Sat Apr 27, 2019 11:33 pm

So the last finishes with a good old plot of twists and turns. Well done the Dragons picking up their second derby win of the season. Edinburgh while playing later ended with no advantage.

There will be at least one Welsh team in the Champs Cup.

The reason the conference system works well for the Pro14 compared to the Super Rugby system is you get there on merit and no one is guaranteed a spot.

There most likely will be an Irish team in the Final. Glasgow v Leinster/Munster final probably best for a full house.

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Post by Stone Motif on Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:14 am

miaow wrote:I think that's reasonable. The Scarlets have stuttered all season. Probably hammer the Dragons then fold if they make the play-off sport.

Ospreys' key men are better/more important than the Blues'. AWJ, Tipuric, North etc.
Well this post has aged well.
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Post by Stone Motif on Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:15 am

miaow wrote:You're missing the point. The league is devalued because certain teams rotate heavily. It doesn't matter if the Dragons are absolute dunk - everyone knows that, including the Dragons. It means playing 'Leinster' doesn't always mean you're playing 'LEINSTER'...as was the case with Treviso.

I'd say Cheetahs aren't far off Treviso. Going away from home - anything but a guaranteed 5 points, that's ridiculous.

Treviso clearly do suffer from test call-ups, moreso than most. It would be interesting to see how many of those are released in the run-up to a test match - I'm guessing Italy doesn't keep 20 Treviso players away from the club. But it doesn't offset all the other factors you're conveniently ignoring - not least the refereeing.

It's not a game. But thanks for confirming you're treating it as such and just being contrarian rather than listening and trying to understand. No point continuing the discussion.
And this one.
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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:31 am

Not sure the point you're trying to make. The Dragons are still useless. The Scarlets did what they've done all season - fall apart in the second half.

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Post by Guest on Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:39 am

miaow wrote:The Scarlets have stuttered all season. Probably hammer the Dragons then fold

Wait...I literally called it... Yahoo

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Post by Stone Motif on Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:59 am

miaow wrote:
miaow wrote:The Scarlets have stuttered all season. Probably hammer the Dragons then fold

Wait...I literally called it... Yahoo

You really didn't Laugh
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Post by geoff999rugby on Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:25 am

Brendan wrote:So the last finishes with a good old plot of twists and turns.  Well done the Dragons picking up their second derby win of the season.  Edinburgh while playing later ended with no advantage.

There will be at least one Welsh team in the Champs Cup.

The reason the conference system works well for the Pro14 compared to the Super Rugby system is you get there on merit and no one is guaranteed a spot.

There most likely will be an Irish team in the Final.  Glasgow v Leinster/Munster final probably best for a full house.

The crowd will be just as good if Ulster are there

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