Nations championship draws nearer

First topic message reminder :

Well there is a meeting today in Dublin to discuss the future of a global championship. Would this ruin the 6N and world cup ? I think they are going to discuss how everybody are supposed to play each other, apparently though there is going to be a backing of 5 billion big ones for this from sports giants Infront.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48348250

What are everyone's thoughts on this ?

The Oracle wrote:You'll love this one eBop - there was a Tongan international who came to Wales many moons ago, settled down and had a family.  Had a son who is now with the Scarlets and is in the Wales age group system (born and bred here, before you get your knickers in a twist ).  His name is..... wait for it....... Carwyn Tuipulotu!  Superb name!  Good mix of the two cultures right there.

We could mention mention Josh and Joel Matevesi Cornish born and bred, Fjian internationals.

Indeed, that is a great name Oracle, one in a million! Pretty cool that the parents bought in to the Welsh culture.

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Just to confirm with you guys. There is free movement for all countries to new zealand yes?

https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas/apply-for-a-visa/about-visa/skilled-migrant-category-resident-visa


New Zealand as a country is one of the good guys. I like the country, and have enjoyed meeting a lot of Kiwis either on my travels or theirs. The kiwis I have met in person have a great sense of humour and have seemed to lack any semblance of self-importance. Much like here their press can be overbearing and at times insufferable. We have Stephen Jones and Mick Cleary for rugby, they have similar. We have keyboard warriors, they have similar.

We are both countries with diverse populations and large amounts of migration. There is more that connects us than divides us. 

Oh and neither of us are Australians.

You mean its only online that they lack humility?

Im just kidding that has been my experience too.

Taylorman wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Shouldnt you be angry with NZ for not doing more to keep players then with the countries who recieve them? Sort your house out then throw stones

We’ve always had our house sorted. Shows in the results. What we can’t do is conjure up 200 million lazy fat fans to but a ticket to our matches.

For someone from a country that is built on immigration by people looking for a better life, you seem very cross about people leaving it to do the same......

What seems acceptable is northern rugby is prepared to lose its identity for the sake of results.  Your teams are soaked with SH input.

That’s fine. Just glad we don’t have that here.

We produce our players and teams. The north have largely given that up.

Such a shame.

That is clearly not true in Ireland

Ulster finished the season with one SH international - Coetzee, and one qualified through residency, Ludik, who will not have his contract renewed next year.
Three qualified through parentage one of whom (Curtis) father played for Ireland as a born and bred Irishman
We have, in Ireland, only a sprinkling of SH players

The national set up only have 2 players of note i.e . will make the WC squad - Stander and Aki and even when referring to those two most would not have Aki in the starting team
and Stander is being pushed hard by Conan
Ireland chances at the World Cup would not be significantly altered if no SH born player made the squad

LondonTiger wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

What seems acceptable is northern rugby is prepared to lose its identity for the sake of results.  Your teams are soaked with SH input.

That’s fine. Just glad we don’t have that here.

We produce our players and teams. The north have largely given that up.

Such a shame.

While the bold bits fit your narrative, not strictly true that NH clubs are "soaked with SH input" and "given up producing players."

Of the 46 players representing Saracens and Exeter in this week's semi finals 9 were not in school in the UK by the age of 13. (Maitland, Barritt, Koch, Skelton, Rhodes, White, Dennis, Ewers, Armand). Of these two played their first pro rugby in the UK and have British parents. Both teams have strong academies and are building strong links with their local communities. It is a model that seems to be working pretty well. If you believe 15% of fully developed imports is giving up well that is your prerogative.

Any comp or team that can get a 15% injection, with that 15% more likely to be in the higher end of the value to the side in this day and age gets a significant advantage over those that don’t. Add in higher quality coaching and you are simply operating a process where your competitive advantage is significantly higher than others that don’t have that luxury.

15% is like saying we earn the same, it’s just I don’t get taxed. Yeah right.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

yappysnap wrote:Shouldnt you be angry with NZ for not doing more to keep players then with the countries who recieve them? Sort your house out then throw stones

We’ve always had our house sorted. Shows in the results. What we can’t do is conjure up 200 million lazy fat fans to but a ticket to our matches.

For someone from a country that is built on immigration by people looking for a better life, you seem very cross about people leaving it to do the same......

What seems acceptable is northern rugby is prepared to lose its identity for the sake of results.  Your teams are soaked with SH input.

That’s fine. Just glad we don’t have that here.

We produce our players and teams. The north have largely given that up.

Such a shame.

That is clearly not true in Ireland

Ulster finished the season with one SH international - Coetzee, and one qualified through residency, Ludik, who will not have his contract renewed next year.
Three qualified through parentage one of whom (Curtis) father played for Ireland as a born and bred Irishman
We have, in Ireland, only a sprinkling of SH players

The national set up only have 2 players of note i.e . will make the WC squad - Stander and Aki and even when referring to those two most would not have Aki in the starting team
and Stander is being pushed hard by Conan
Ireland chances at the World Cup would not be significantly altered if no SH born player made the squad

Yes Ireland ‘do it less’ but they still have positions filled by outsiders in clubs and those able to play for Ireland. It is simply more confirmation that on its own resources, their competitive edge would diminish. Particularly in the case of Schmidt as coach. Not the best example, but has done well in comparison with others

Everyone takes players from outside

Ireland could well select a squad for the WC with only 2 players born outside Ireland.
Can anyone, including NZ, match that ?
As I also made clear one of those does not make the starting 15 and the other has a more than able replacement, who many
of us things is as, at least, as good. Ireland are not reliant on any non Irish born player

We will not have a SH coach next year.

Could we? Youre kidding surely? How many non NZ born players do you think there have been? And none of those we have had were professionals before they played for us.

Can Ireland say that?

There were 4 non NZ players in the autumn squad last year.

It comes down to the measure you apply.
If it is professionals elsewhere then Ireland are higher than NZ
It comes down to place of birth NZ are higher than Ireland.
I should add the 5 year residency change will significantly reduce the issue of professional players moving.
I fully endorse than change and as noted this will be a non issue for Ulster in 2020-21, and possibly Leinster as well

Clearly Pacific Islanders moving, and playing, for NZ is, in large part down to an economic issue.
So is past Irish emigration which means a number of children/grandchildren, of Irish ancestry, move to Ireland to play.
Two sides of the same coin.