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The French Open - 2019

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Post by sirfredperry Sun 26 May 2019, 8:12 am

First topic message reminder :

RG begins today, with Fed among those with a Sunday match. I'm going for Rafa for the title, with Djoko and Thiem his main rivals.

Fed should get thru a few rounds but is an unlikely winner, especially as he may have to get past Tsitsipas.

The women's title could go to anyone in the top 15. Halep would be a safe bet, but she can be injury prone. There are a lot of teenage players who could cause upsets. It's really difficult to forecast the eventual winner.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:42 pm

Rain stops play again

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:45 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Vondrousova wins the first set 7-5. Konta was 5-3 40-0 up and somewhat fell apart
I am of the view that "mental fragility" is somewhat linked to the players physical attributes & skills.  

Mental strength can be used to overcome physical limitations by ignoring pain et cetera.  Mental focus (being in the zone) enables someone whose skills are less robust to operate within their narrower margins of error.  

In this model Konta fell apart because deep down she realised she is not very good at tennis ... or at least at this level.

So having got to the FO semi-final, leading 5-3 40-0, she suddenly realised she was not as good as her opponent at this level. That's a very laughable model!
Are you familiar with the concept of geometric progression?  Reaching a final is not the same as reaching a semi-final and reaching a semi-final is not the same as reaching a quarter-final et cetera.  What would you say is Konta's level?

What does my opinion of Konta's level have to do with the idea that her own self-belief suddenly faltered whilst winning against a player ranked much lower than her. Maybe nerves set in, but that's a different thing entirely.
You are refusing to accept the context in which the model is being used.

Yeah, because its a crap model in this context.

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Post by sirfredperry Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:53 pm

Thiem well worth his lead in the third set after some outstanding groundstrokes.

He gets round the court well and is clearly happier in the ultra-windy conditions.

Watched a lot of the Rafa-Rog match. I think one of the things that Rog could have improved on was his first-serve percentage. He didn't play that badly but you can often play well against Rafa - and Djokjo - and still lose.

Interesting to hear what Konta was saying about the scheduling today. She was trying to be critical but diplomatic at the same time. Also interesting that, according to her, the players were NOT consulted about the court change.

Surely the organisers should, or could, have said something along these lines: "Look we've had rain which has screwed up the scheduling. The forecast today is not too promising either .We know this is far from ideal but we have put you on this court at this time. Please bear with us."

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:54 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Vondrousova wins the first set 7-5. Konta was 5-3 40-0 up and somewhat fell apart
I am of the view that "mental fragility" is somewhat linked to the players physical attributes & skills.  

Mental strength can be used to overcome physical limitations by ignoring pain et cetera.  Mental focus (being in the zone) enables someone whose skills are less robust to operate within their narrower margins of error.  

In this model Konta fell apart because deep down she realised she is not very good at tennis ... or at least at this level.

So having got to the FO semi-final, leading 5-3 40-0, she suddenly realised she was not as good as her opponent at this level. That's a very laughable model!
Are you familiar with the concept of geometric progression?  Reaching a final is not the same as reaching a semi-final and reaching a semi-final is not the same as reaching a quarter-final et cetera.  What would you say is Konta's level?

What does my opinion of Konta's level have to do with the idea that her own self-belief suddenly faltered whilst winning against a player ranked much lower than her. Maybe nerves set in, but that's a different thing entirely.
You are refusing to accept the context in which the model is being used.

Yeah, because its a crap model in this context.
No it is not. You are talking crap.

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Post by JuliusHMarx Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:59 pm

Oooohhhhhhh.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 07 Jun 2019, 5:01 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Thiem well worth his lead in the third set after some outstanding groundstrokes.

He gets round the court well and is clearly happier in the ultra-windy conditions.

Watched a lot of the Rafa-Rog match. I think one of the things that Rog could have improved on was his first-serve percentage. He didn't play that badly but you can often play well against Rafa - and Djokjo - and still lose.

Interesting to hear what Konta was saying about the scheduling today. She was trying to be critical but diplomatic at the same time. Also interesting that, according to her, the players were NOT consulted about the court change.

Surely the organisers should, or could, have said something along these lines: "Look we've had rain which has screwed up the scheduling. The forecast today is not too promising either .We know this is far from ideal but we have put you on this court at this time. Please bear with us."
Konta was playing the sexism card that she frequently likes using.

The second Friday is men's semi final day. People paid top money to watch the top 4 players.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 07 Jun 2019, 5:35 pm

Play called off for the day. Rather bizarrely the conditions actually seem to be better now.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 07 Jun 2019, 6:40 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote: ... Konta was playing the sexism card that she frequently likes using ...
It is a well worn narrative that has been developed by the WTA and others:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/48543136

BBC wrote: ... WTA boss attacks 'unfair & inappropriate' order of play ...  

The ... decision to move the women's semis away from Roland Garros's showpiece court is "inappropriate and unfair", says WTA chief Steve Simon.  "They have earned the right to play on the biggest stage," said Simon ... Amelie Mauresmo ... called the decision a "disgrace" ... While the women's last-four matches ... switched to smaller stages, the men's semi-finals ...  

"We are ... extremely disappointed by the scheduling of both women's semi-finals on outside courts. This decision is unfair & inappropriate" ...  

'Wrong to relegate the women's matches' says BBC tennis correspondent ... it is wrong to relegate the women's matches.  How does a young player like Marketa Vondrousova or Amanda Anisimova build a following if they are denied the chance to play on these big courts?  It always ... the women who suffer in these situations ...

Keywords: [Human] Rights; Inappropriate; Unfair; Disgrace; Men; Relegate; Wrong; Denied the Chance; Women Suffering.

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Post by Just John Fri 07 Jun 2019, 6:50 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Play called off for the day. Rather bizarrely the conditions actually seem to be better now.

Yeah, but if Novak is losing, and wants to suspend play, they will listen.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 07 Jun 2019, 7:54 pm

Just John wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Play called off for the day. Rather bizarrely the conditions actually seem to be better now.

Yeah, but if Novak is losing, and wants to suspend play, they will listen.

It is extremely disappointing.  It is unfair and inappropriate.   Thiem's human rights have surely been violated.   It is a disgrace and just plain wrong.  How many more years of Thiem suffering must we as a society put up with?   #JusticeforThiem.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 07 Jun 2019, 8:48 pm

Just to clarify the tournament official's decision, play was abandoned at 5.25pm UK time as further rain was expected by 6.30pm UK time. The rain eventually returned at 6.40pm UK time. So at push the match probably would've advanced to the middle of the fourth set. In hindsight they probably made the correct decision.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri 07 Jun 2019, 9:09 pm

I would be interested in knowing if there are any rules regarding wind. Usually high winds are associated with unstable weather conditions that also bring rain but that is not always the case. The BBC claim there were gusts up to 90 kmh in the general vicinity of Roland Garros. If there were hurricane or tornado force winds I assume they would suspend play?

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Fri 07 Jun 2019, 9:50 pm

BBC are incorrect regarding the wind velocity. Former champion Jim Courier was doing the match for ITV and the wind reading was 28mph/45kph. Courier said someone he knew at Roland Garros suggested 50kph was the cut off limit.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 8:37 am

Clearly, the wind made conditions very tricky yesterday. But IMHO play in a strong wind should only be halted if the situation becomes DANGEROUS.

For example, you would not want to continue if it was so windy that the players' chairs were blowing on to the court or bits were falling off the roof. You can't just stop because it's difficult or unpleasant.

The French is an outdoor event and so players must cope with the elements. You can't always have perfect conditions and you have to adapt.

I expect Djoko to come back with all guns blazing today, but I can't see anyone stopping Rafa in the final if he plays like he did in the semi.

As for the women's final I'm going for Barty.

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Post by Calder106 Sat 08 Jun 2019, 10:01 am

I agree that the French Open like the other slams is an outdoor event. However with the advent of the roofs more matches are being played under these roofs, sometimes questionably. Also the roofs are often being closed quite quickly without waiting to see if the weather is going to improve. I'm pretty sure that if the FO roof was in place both SF's would have been played under it yesterday.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:18 am

They're back on today and Thiem holds for 4-1 in the third, after being 0-30 down.

Still think we'll be in for a five setter.

Agree with Calder, above, that the roof would have been used yesterday had it been in place. But it wasn't. As Courier said this morning: All the players, except Djoko, just got on with it yesterday.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:23 am

Djokovic breaks back 3-4 on serve

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:36 am

Thiem survives BP and leads 5-4. Still pretty windy but much more quality tennis now on display

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:56 am

Thiem breaks and wins third set 7-5. Djokovic saved 3 set points but Thiem gets him with the fourth. Some extraordinary defensive skills from the Austrian.

Djokovic gets warning for exceeding shot clock. Literally more obsessed with arguing with the umpire rather than playing the match.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:59 am

Well, this is now very interesting. Thiem, I felt, HAD to win the third set to win the match. Of course, Djoko could still take it.

Very impressed with Thiem's speed around the court. Djoko looked pretty solid until that final game of the set which was very scrappy.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:02 pm

Thiem’s forehand has been magnificent so far in his match.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:08 pm

Djokovic breaks 2-1

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:15 pm

Thiem breaks straight back

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:19 pm

Djokovic gains the break again 3-2

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:31 pm

After numerous breaks of serve, it's 4-4 in the fourth.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:31 pm

Thiem breaks again. 4-4

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:33 pm

Thiem holds 5-4, Djokovic almost at the point of no return

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:39 pm

Djokovic held easily 5-5

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:42 pm

Djokovic breaks 6-5

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:46 pm

Djokovic wins the fourth set 7-5

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 12:47 pm

Into a 5th and you have to fancy Novak now.

Got very scrappy in that 4th set, with far more UEs from both players. Thiem stood miles back when he had the chance to break for the match and may already have played his best tennis in this match.


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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:08 pm

Massive hold for Thiem after saving BP 2-1 on serve

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:12 pm

Thiem breaks 3-1

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:14 pm

Gotta question Djokovic’s tactics continually bum rushes the net against Thiem who’s passing him at will. Djokovic isn’t exactly one of the best players at the front of the court.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:16 pm

Thiem holds 4-1

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:22 pm

4-1 40-40 pouring down

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 1:24 pm

They're off for rain with Thiem close to victory at 4-1 in the fifth

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:24 pm

Rather surprisingly the match took 40 minutes to return after the rain stopped and the covers were removed. The chair umpire has been on court for over 20 minutes. Bizarre

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:32 pm

Djokovic holds 2-4 saving 2 BPs, one before the rain break and one after

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:37 pm

Djokovic breaks 3-4

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:42 pm

Thiem breaks again 5-3 serving for the match

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:46 pm

Got here in time to see this finish...

Thiem on the brink of the final...but deuce ! Djokovic won't give up without a fight...

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:47 pm

Djokovic breaks back 4-5

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:47 pm

...and breaks back ! Tough nut to crack.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 2:48 pm

Oh Dear. Thiem two MPs on his own serve and went all wobbly.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Sat 08 Jun 2019, 3:03 pm

Game, set and match Thiem - 6-2 3-6 7-5 5-7 7-5. First Austrian to reach multiple major finals.

Djokovic’s bid to hold all 4 majors simultaneously ends at 26 matches and also misses out on the opportunity to become the first man to try and win all the majors multiple times in the open era.

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Post by alfie Sat 08 Jun 2019, 3:06 pm

Well done Thiem clap

Kept his nerve well after wasting the first two match points and came back to win it . Big scalp ; and I wish him good luck in taking on the Master of Clay tomorrow . He will need it...

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 3:09 pm

Well, I thought Thiem had blown it when he squandered those two MPs but he crucially held and then played a much better point on his third MP.

Sure Rafa will be happier facing the Austrian again rather than Djoko. Strange match in some ways. Some brilliant play at times but many UEs, awkward conditions and interruptions.

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Post by slashermcguirk Sat 08 Jun 2019, 3:16 pm

Well done to Thiem but I fear that’s a bad result for the final. Nadal will be delighted I suspect. I think Novak would have taken him close but I don’t see Thiem doing it.

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Post by sirfredperry Sat 08 Jun 2019, 3:24 pm

Must say I was convinced that it would be a Djoko-Rafa final but, as in 2011, Rafa will not have to face the one guy who most reckon could give him a run for his money in an RG final.

Thiem's best chance is to really go for it. He's got the shots and he does get round the court well. But you have to be realistic. It's likely to be Rafa in straight sets.

Women's final coming up. I'm going for Barty but Vondrousova is a tricky player and has a chance.

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