Rugby World Cup and delayed games.

by majesticimperialman Sun 29 Sep 2019, 9:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can any one recall a time in the history of the Rugby World Cup when a schedule game had to be called off, and rescheduled and what effect did that rescheduled game have on the world cup? They say the weather might turn nasty before the next round gets under way.

Discuss.

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:27 pm

Every time you play you risk two things.

1. Losing; and losing can have serious implications for confidence levels going into the next game. Avoiding a loss, and actually avoiding a game, allows confidence to remain in situ for all-important winner takes all play-off games.
2. Losing one or two important players to injury. This too is a risk all teams take when actually playing their games and so losing a few influential players can of course also have an impact on future games in a series.

Cancellations obviously assist the chances of sides already through to the next phase. One game less wont be unwelcome. For sides that are relying on gaining points from cancelled games, the implications are more serious and speak for themselves.

As Tiger pointed out, there is of course the blunt human impact of a Typhoon that outweighs all concerns for rugby's ego. But still, someone decided Japan in Typhoon season. Now we're all surprised that a Typhoon has actually come in with a genuine impact on an elite World sporting event. Maybe the organisers felt the odds were on their side too and that luck would probably let them 'get away' with it.

by Guest Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:32 pm

No doubt they felt they would get away with it.

Can't really say too much about how good/bad a decision it was to choose Japan - they have the Olympics never Summer as well, don't forget, which is on a compleeeettteeeellllyyyyy different scale to the RWC.

It doesn't feel like Qatar - where literally money and politics decided it with little regard to things like weather. We now have a football world cup at Christmas thanks to the corruption within Fifa. I don't think this is comparable.

But it's really not good. Anyway you cut this, it's not good.

by BamBam Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:34 pm

This is potentially interesting - https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1182014713670049792

L'Equipe wrote:The match between Japan and Scotland was threatened with cancellation due to typhoon Hagibis. But its importance to appoint the qualifiers of Pool A would push the organizers to postpone the game exceptionally to Monday http://ow.ly/pXOj30pH4vw

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:38 pm

miaow wrote:No doubt they felt they would get away with it.

Can't really say too much about how good/bad a decision it was to choose Japan - they have the Olympics never Summer as well, don't forget, which is on a compleeeettteeeellllyyyyy different scale to the RWC.

It doesn't feel like Qatar - where literally money and politics decided it with little regard to things like weather. We now have a football world cup at Christmas thanks to the corruption within Fifa. I don't think this is comparable.

But it's really not good. Anyway you cut this, it's not good.

The Olympics as far as I'm aware, though I'm not a meteorologist, is not during the all important Typhoon season. It might get hot but I assume the weather is less erratic in high Summer. The quirk for me seems to be that the Rugby WC got fitted in to Japan's most dynamic few months in terms of violent weather patterns.

by mikey_dragon Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:39 pm

BamBam wrote:This is potentially interesting - https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1182014713670049792

L'Equipe wrote:The match between Japan and Scotland was threatened with cancellation due to typhoon Hagibis. But its importance to appoint the qualifiers of Pool A would push the organizers to postpone the game exceptionally to Monday http://ow.ly/pXOj30pH4vw

How every match should have been treated.

Some folk seem like they're confused. We aren't debating the strength of the typhoon. We are debating the poor outcomes, which is due to insufficient planning by the organisers!

by Soul Requiem Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:44 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BamBam wrote:This is potentially interesting - https://twitter.com/lequipe/status/1182014713670049792

L'Equipe wrote:The match between Japan and Scotland was threatened with cancellation due to typhoon Hagibis. But its importance to appoint the qualifiers of Pool A would push the organizers to postpone the game exceptionally to Monday http://ow.ly/pXOj30pH4vw

How every match should have been treated.

Some folk seem like they're confused. We aren't debating the strength of the typhoon. We are debating the poor outcomes, which is due to insufficient planning by the organisers!

So Wales play France next weekend after playing against Uruguay in a few days, Liam Williams or Patchell for instance receive a blow to the head and are ruled because of concussion, France alternatively have an extra week to prepare and get over any niggles in the squad. Were Wales to then lose they'd be justified in being a bit annoyed at the course of events that led to that.

For the record cannot see any way in which France win but an example.

by mikey_dragon Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:49 pm

Soul, yes agree fully, but that's just one of many examples. Don't forget that this was also a once in a lifetime opportunity for fans and players, some who had been building towards this for 4 years. The same for Japan - from the day of the opening ceremony you'd be under the impression this might be the best world cup yet, but due to some poor planning they've stained it. I can't see another world cup being here for another 50 years or more!

by tigertattie Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:51 pm

Everyone is missing the obvious solution to this.

Japan and Ireland could top the group. Scotland could quality.

Abandon the Japan Vs Scotland game and the Ireland vs Samoa game. Declare Scotland, Ireland and Japan group winners. All three teams play in a QF against NZ (one after the other in Alphabetical order) and any team that beat the blacks go through to the semi. Any team that lose vs the blacks play SA later on that night and any team that then beat SA go through to the semi.

Why cant anyone else see this simple and obvious solution???

by Soul Requiem Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Soul, yes agree fully, but that's just one of many examples. Don't forget that this was also a once in a lifetime opportunity for fans and players, some who had been building towards this for 4 years. The same for Japan - from the day of the opening ceremony you'd be under the impression this might be the best world cup yet, but due to some poor planning they've stained it. I can't see another world cup being here for another 50 years or more!

Less bothered about Parisse but I feel for Ghiraldini missing out on an opportunity to play one final game for Italy, he's been a loyal servant to the team for many years and deserved a fond farewell.

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 12:57 pm

Stop Mikey!

You're doing great in the overview but this Typhoon stuff will simply be used to further push the idea that 'we all need ta join up and have a World Season that might allow places like Japan to host a WC at a more suitable time in their calendar.'

Indeed, if I was a cynical man - and about 100% of me is! - then I might even guess that such expansion/money/money/money thoughts dropped this particular WC into Japan in Typhoon season.

by Guest Thu 10 Oct 2019, 1:08 pm

tigertattie wrote:Abandon the Japan Vs Scotland game and the Ireland vs Samoa game. Declare Scotland, Ireland and Japan group winners. All three teams play in a QF against NZ (one after the other in Alphabetical order) and any team that beat the blacks go through to the semi. Any team that lose vs the blacks play SA later on that night and any team that then beat SA go through to the semi.

This seems needlessly complex. Surely all 3 teams simply play the ABs all at once. If they manage to botch it up - a combination of Irish hesitancy and Scottish batsh1ttery, with teh Japanese being too polite to suggest they play their way because, actually, it's going quite well...then they get to back it up against the Boks.

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 1:18 pm

tigertattie wrote:Everyone is missing the obvious solution to this.

Japan and Ireland could top the group. Scotland could quality.

Abandon the Japan Vs Scotland game and the Ireland vs Samoa game. Declare Scotland, Ireland and Japan group winners. All three teams play in a QF against NZ (one after the other in Alphabetical order) and any team that beat the blacks go through to the semi. Any team that lose vs the blacks play SA later on that night and any team that then beat SA go through to the semi.

Why cant anyone else see this simple and obvious solution???

Makes sense to me. Though World Rugby, being the backward, anti-innovation, Neanderthal idiots that they are, I don't see them backing it.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 10 Oct 2019, 1:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:...The Olympics as far as I'm aware, though I'm not a meteorologist, is not during the all important Typhoon season...

It is. Pacific typhoons can happen any time in the year. Look at the record of recent typhoon seasons, and you'll see the first one usually appears in Januray, and the last in December. The three months from August through October often see more than the rest of the year but you could just as easily have one when the Olympics is on.

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 1:22 pm

Yes well.... we could have snow in March or April, September or October.. but the idea is Japan gotta have some period when the likelihood of disruption from Typhoons is less.... and I'd assume, even from what you say, that September - October ain't in the ballpark of the word 'less'

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 10 Oct 2019, 1:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yes well.... we could have snow in March or April, September or October.. but the idea is Japan gotta have some period when the likelihood of disruption from Typhoons is less.... and I'd assume, even from what you say, that September - October ain't in the ballpark of the word 'less'

June to July is the "tsuyu", or rainy season. It's like a fifth season, with torrential rains which can disrupt daily life as much as a typhoon. On top of that, Japan is prone to earthquakes. Meanwhile, Japan hosts international sporting events all year round. A football world cup; baseball world cup; summer and winter Olympics; athletics world championships; Asian games; formula one etc etc. The opening day of the 1964 Olympics was today, 10th September. There was no super typhoon during the whole Olympics back then but there could have been. There were, however, two super typhoons in July 1964, which happens to be the month of the year the 2020 Tokyo Olympics will start.

by Ninjarugby Thu 10 Oct 2019, 2:42 pm

I take it World Rugby will take these 2 draws into consideration for the Rankings out on Monday morning!
After all Italy did get the draw.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu 10 Oct 2019, 2:48 pm

Ninjarugby wrote:I take it World Rugby will take these 2 draws into consideration for the Rankings out on Monday morning!
After all Italy did get the draw.

A match between Japan and HK was cancelled through bad weather a few years ago. The declared draw did contribute to the rankings. However, that match had actually started, even though it only went on for 20 minutes. It might be different if the match never starts.

by robbo277 Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:08 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Ninjarugby wrote:I take it World Rugby will take these 2 draws into consideration for the Rankings out on Monday morning!
After all Italy did get the draw.
A match between Japan and HK was cancelled through bad weather a few years ago. The declared draw did contribute to the rankings. However, that match had actually started, even though it only went on for 20 minutes. It might be different if the match never starts.

There is a distinction between abandoned and cancelled in the tournament rules. A game that starts is abandoned, a game that doesn't get that far is cancelled. A game abandoned in the second half is resulted at that point. A game abandoned in the first half is called a draw but the scores stand (for try bonus points and points for and against). And then the cancelled games are obviously 0-0 draws.

I'm unsure if these results will count for the World Rankings, but if they do, they count double.

by Ninjarugby Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:22 pm

This decision I think will have a bigger affect than we first think.
NZ, Eng, Fra all make the 1/4 finals & is it good or bad for them that they miss a game at the weekend. Will they be under-cooked or conversely fully rested with all players getting a chance to recover from niggles. SA already have 12 days between their last group match & their 1/4 final. NZ haven't had a test since weekend 1.
Aus/Wales & Japan/Ire/Sco will (hopefully) go through their world cup cycle of games. Will the extra game benefit them.
If any of the 1st 3 win the WC they will do so by winning 6 games rather than the usual 7. Will that taint their achievement?
If WR use the same logic as this morning & the typhoon affects the Jap/Sco game, Ire only need a losing bonus pt to qualify & as I mentioned in a previous post Scotland go home for the 2nd WC in a row due to pretty bad luck, (decision).

by tigertattie Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:39 pm

I've decided that if Scotland are sent home to think again because of the typhoon, then we'll just need to go with the thinking that we'd have won the whole competition and it took an almighty force of nature to stop us in our tracks!

by Guest Thu 10 Oct 2019, 3:48 pm

Good points Ninja. Tainted? Unfortunately, yes, in my eyes. Really didn't want this to happen but, yes, it more than just taints it. The RWC has become THE fixture in rugby - 4 year cycles building up to it, all about preparing for what they'll face, treating the AIs and even the 6Ns as dummy test runs for the turnarounds, rotations, tactics, conditions etc. To have it so fundamentally changed by cancelled games severely damages all the little things that has made the RWC get bigger and bigger each year, more and more domineering in the rugby calendar. It's a massive shame, but tainted is fair - not quite ruined at this stage, but not too far off.

by The Great Aukster Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:18 pm

robbo277 wrote:I'm unsure if these results will count for the World Rankings, but if they do, they count double.

Some consolation for Italy to boost their ranking.

While the teams are being moved out of Tokyo - what happens to the fans? Are they being moved or are they expected to sit out the storm and pray?

It is bad enough risking a Rugby Tournament with bad administration but if any fans get hurt in the Typhoon, World Rugby will have even more serious questions to answer.

by **Afro** Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:21 pm

You know full well that even if a game is behind closed doors, you are still going to get fans trying to get there, and try and sneak in.

by Taylorman Thu 10 Oct 2019, 4:30 pm

Afro wrote:You know full well that even if a game is behind closed doors, you are still going to get fans trying to get there, and try and sneak in.

Yes and I think part of the plan is to stop people movement.

by SecretFly Thu 10 Oct 2019, 8:27 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Afro wrote:You know full well that even if a game is behind closed doors, you are still going to get fans trying to get there, and try and sneak in.

Yes and I think part of the plan is to stop people movement.

Just exterminate 'em. Can't be having mischievous fans at a World Cup.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 11 Oct 2019, 12:22 am

The Great Aukster wrote:While the teams are being moved out of Tokyo - what happens to the fans? Are they being moved or are they expected to sit out the storm and pray?

There are a lot of people who have flights out of the country on Sunday or Monday, and they don't want to get out of Tokyo, in case they can't get back.

I know some guys who went sightseeing out west who are trying as hard as possible to get to Tokyo today, so they can make their flights out. I told them to stay put, and travel later, because it's going to be no fun in Tokyo on Saturday. I think they'll still come back if they can.

by Cyril Fri 11 Oct 2019, 12:36 am

You have to love the Beeb headline where it says ‘Scotland will be to blame if they go out because of Typhoon’ (Eddie Jones) and then Jones never mentions Scotland, but just concentrated on England and says he understands why he understands the decisions are made.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 11 Oct 2019, 2:10 am

Telegraph report on how the timeline of the decision

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world-cup/2019/10/10/typhoon-hagibis-caused-unprecedented-world-cup-chaos-inside

Just after 11am on Monday, Koji Horiuchi, the independent weather risk communicator for the World Cup, made senior executives aware of a tropical storm “born” in the Pacific Ocean early in the day.

There was nothing unusual about his briefing. Horiuchi, who works for Weather News, the company that supplies all the main Japanese television stations, attends each of the main daily operation meetings along with executives of the World Cup and Japan Rugby 2019, the company set up to run the tournament. On top of that, he supplies a forecast every three hours to flag up any forecasts of extreme weather that could put matches in jeopardy.

The build-up to the tournament had been disrupted by Typhoon Faxai, which made landfall on the day of England’s arrival on Sept 9, killing three and injuring hundreds, leaving almost one million homes powerless. Yet, since then two other typhoons had petered out, with no disruption. For now Horiuchi was not overly concerned.

By Tuesday, however, the situation had escalated. When the executives met again, Horiuchi was concerned. For a tropical storm to be upgraded to a typhoon requires special circumstances and these were occurring in the critical days before the final round of eight pool matches, the period when the tournament had least wriggle room for moving games.

Surface and sea temperature needs to be over 30C for a typhoon to grow and conditions were ripe for the perfect storm. To make matters worse, there were high-pressure points to the west and east of Japan, which were forcing the storm through a channel that would make landfall.

The first predictions suggested the storm would miss land to the west but, on Tuesday, it veered to the east and grew massively, peaking at four times the size of Faxai. It very quickly grew into a violent storm and had already caused havoc in Guam and other islands in the Pacific Ocean.

The executive team, including Alan Gilpin, World Rugby’s tournament director, and Akira Shimazu, Japan Rugby 2019’s chief executive, would fire the questions to Horiuchi.

Where was it going to make landfall, which venues would be impacted, what was the wind speed, how much rain would fall, would it be dangerous to be outside?

By Wednesday, the situation had deteriorated to the extent that the World Cup board gave approval for the executive team to evoke an “exceptional circumstances” clause. This gave it power to act outside the terms of participation signed by all the teams and to explore what contingency plans might be best.

A further alarming development came later that day when the Japanese Meteorological Agency took the extraordinary decision to stage a press conference to raise awareness about the impact of Hagibis and warned the public to take shelter on Saturday.

The forecast was for Hagibis to make landfall in Tokyo some point in the afternoon local time, just when England were due to play France, and that it would be 14,000 kilometres in dimension.

World Rugby had prepared extensive contingencies for such scenarios, and had run desktop exercises to see if it could cope with the mounting storm.

Which venues were available, could they be operational in time, could fans get there, was the transport network suitable, was there enough hotel occupancy for teams, was the training venue available? Underpinning the planning was that the decision had to be fair to all teams. What was worrying the executive team was that it might have been possible to get away with two matches, but because of the sheer size and scale of the super typhoon, up to seven matches were at risk, making many of the options unavailable.

At one stage on Wednesday, England were informed of a scenario in which their game would be moved to Oita. But there were no guarantees of safe travel for supporters, and any changes would have to be applied to every other game, overloading the already complicated matrix.

The contingency planning included rigorous testing for flight availability, train availability and hotel occupancy. Some were achievable but others were not. World Rugby could not guarantee the movement would be safe for everyone. It was time to press the button that would send shock waves across the tournament.

Around 11pm on Wednesday, Eddie Jones, the England head coach, was informed that the game was almost certain to be cancelled. But the decision would go to the wire. Even by the early hours of Thursday, the officials hoped that the storm might give them a break.

The brinkmanship would fail however. By 9am on Thursday, Hagibis remained on course to wreak havoc across Tokyo. The decision to cancel two games was signed off unanimously by the World Cup board, which spoke via a conference call, and an official confirmed to England team manager Charlotte Gibbons that their game was off.

As England jetted off to the coastal resort of Miyazaki to escape the storm, heavy rainfall had already started. The long, frightening reach of Hagibis was about to arrive.

by Guest Fri 11 Oct 2019, 10:15 am

It would be a complete farce to include a cancelled game in the world rankings. People already complain about the rankings and how someone like Wales or Ireland can get to No.1. But giving teams free double points for sitting on a plane is ridiculous. Italy getting double ranking points for drawing with NZ, which in reality is so unlikely to happen that we may as well discount it. I think the Italian players would be embarrassed with that being in the history books too. Like getting a war medal without seeing any combat.

Hopefully it won't happen. The logical thing to do would be not to attach any ranking points to a game not played, and treat it as if the teams had never met (which they won't anyway).

by **LondonTiger** Fri 11 Oct 2019, 10:16 am

The Oracle wrote:It would be a complete farce to include a cancelled game in the world rankings. People already complain about the rankings and how someone like Wales or Ireland can get to No.1. But giving teams free double points for sitting on a plane is ridiculous. Italy getting double ranking points for drawing with NZ, which in reality is so unlikely to happen that we may as well discount it. I think the Italian players would be embarrassed with that being in the history books too. Like getting a war medal without seeing any combat.

Hopefully it won't happen. The logical thing to do would be not to attach any ranking points to a game not played, and treat it as if the teams never met (which they won't anyway).

I thought that is what is happening.

by Guest Fri 11 Oct 2019, 2:27 pm

Don't think anyone cares about rankings this far out from qualification for 2023, nor would hte Italians be focused on anything other than the devastation at what's happened.

by The Great Aukster Fri 11 Oct 2019, 3:02 pm

The ranking positions that count towards the next RWC are those as of end 2020. The double points from this Cup are a big deal, especially for a team like Italy.

by Guest Fri 11 Oct 2019, 3:38 pm

Are you sure it isn't end of 2021?

by Poorfour Sat 12 Oct 2019, 9:10 am

The 2019 draw was made in May 2017; previous draws were made the December before that (e.g Dec 2012 for 2015). 2023 is likely to be May 2021, though the timing doesn’t seem to have been announced yet.

By the way, is anyone else missing waking up of a weekend morning and just being able to watch some international rugby? We’ve only had a couple of weeks of it but I miss it already.

by Old Man Sat 12 Oct 2019, 9:11 am

Yes, seriously disappointed, was looking forward to some goood matches this morning.

Now I have to binge Prison Break

by andyi Sat 12 Oct 2019, 1:51 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:The ranking positions that count towards the next RWC are those as of end 2020. The double points from this Cup are a big deal, especially for a team like Italy.

Italy have already qualified for the 2023 RWC by finishing third in their group

by Poorfour Sat 12 Oct 2019, 2:05 pm

Italy have qualified, but ranking points may determine their seeding. That said, they're unlikely to be in the top 8 by any stretch

by No9 Sat 12 Oct 2019, 7:31 pm

I do hope people take a look at what’s really happening, and then stop and think before whinging about games being cancelled. After all, each and every nation knew the rules.

Spare a thought for Japan and it’s people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-50020108

I’m sure behind the disappoint of games being cancelled all true rugby folk’s thoughts are with Japan and it’s citizens.

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Oct 2019, 8:40 pm

I do feel for the people of Japan.

We are very lucky in this country not to have any thing like Typhoons,Huracanes, so i am not complaining about games being cancelled on the grounds of pure safety for every body. Player's, Public etc.

Lets hope the storm goes away and we have no more cancelled game's,and the tournament can carry on.

by Guest Sat 12 Oct 2019, 10:34 pm

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/510716

Canada and Namibia off.

by majesticimperialman Sat 12 Oct 2019, 10:44 pm

Safety first in all circumstances.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun 13 Oct 2019, 3:51 pm

There has been a lot of talk about how World Rugby could have had better contingency planning for this tournament. That may be true, but I can't believe the guff doing the rounds, posing as viable alternatives.

Let's look at what actually happened. There are twelve RWC venues in Japan. When this typhoon was first spotted, it seemed most likely that three of those venues would be affected. Should fixtures and teams have been moved at that point?

By Tuesday, it seemed that other seven other venues could be affected. 10 out of 12 RWC venues could be out of action but we didn't know which ones. How can you plan for that?

By the time we had high confidence the first three venues threatened were no longer in the firing line, we had concerns about the other seven. We didn't move everyone from the first three at the first sign of trouble - which proved to be the right thing - so it should have been equally OK to wait until we knew things were definitely bad elsewhere.

We did not know until the 10th that games on the 12th were cancelled. For anyone who says "play the day before", I'd point out it was impossible to do that by the 10th for all games threatened. The decision would have had to have been taken earlier, along with an explanation why the games in the first threatened venues weren't also moved early.

It's also worth pointing out that of the twelve RWC venues, eleven were at risk at some point, and the only one which wasn't - Sapporo Dome - is one of the busiest venues in the country with a full weekend schedule (this is a three-day weekend in Japan).

It's absurd to think you can have contingencies for 11 out of 12 venues. It's absurd to think you can move teams up and down the county at will.

You could probably cope with natural disasters by adding more time in the schedule but I can't think of anyone who would have agreed to that.

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 1:53 am

Absurd, perhaps. I don't think many (any?) of us know the full scope and scale of what it would actually take to mitigate what has clearly been a devastating natural disaster with a dreadfully high casualty toll.

But what it does do is make apparent that this cannot happen again - whether that means inflexibility in rearranging games in terms of venue and date or hosting in a 'high risk' country. Which is unfortunate, but as Fly said a few days ago - this has been a dry run for the Olympics, and in many ways, I imagine there will be more who are grateful for the prep. this will have brought.

In any case, huge thanks to the Japanese for getting the Scotland game to go ahead, and well deserved victory as a perhaps trifling and insufficient prize for that considering the sadder circumstances.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:37 am

miaow wrote:...as Fly said a few days ago - this has been a dry run for the Olympics...

Rather than natural disasters, the Olympics has a fully forseeable problem which worries me greatly. The last time Japan hosted the Olympics, it was in October (which should give some perspective on how "high risk" that time is). Next year, it will be in July. That's one of the hottest times of the year. Anyone who experienced the temperature and humidity in September can well imagine how debilitating this might be.

I'm not so worried about the athletes, except in some endurance events. I am worried about spectators getting heatstroke. The World Cup Football in 2002 took place around the same time but it was all around the country, so congestion was not a major problem. The Olympics will be mostly in central Tokyo, and I have real concerns about people being stuck in stations which feel like saunas.

by Taylorman Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:52 am

Interesting, never pictured Japan as a temperate hotspot of that calibre...

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