QF2 - Match Thread - New Zealand v Ireland - 19/10/19 - K/O 11:15 BST

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Thought I'd get these made nice and early for a few reasons - but one being that we're already now looking ahead to the QFs with several teams having finished their group stage, so it's all heating up for the proper knockout stuff...barring any more disruption.

NZ



Team: B Barrett; Reece, Goodhue, Lienert-Brown, Bridge; Mo'unga, Smith; Moody, Taylor, Laulala, Retallick, Whitelock; Savea, Cane, Reid.

Replacements: Coles, Tuungafasi, Ta'avao, S Barrett, Todd, Perenara, Williams, J Barrett.


Ireland



Team: Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Henshaw, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best, Furlong, Henderson, James Ryan, O'Mahony; Van der Flier, Stander.

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Beirne, Ruddock, McGrath, Carbery, Larmour.



Venue: Tokyo
Referee: Nigel Owens
AR1: Pascal Gauzere
AR2: Angus Gardiner
TMO: Graham Hughes

[Guest]

Rubbish. Stupid dichotomy. 'Fighters not strategists'. Simplistic stuff. They're not exclusive.

Really, yet it’s exactly what they do every time they get behind.

Not sure about that. Since NZ lost it seems every Kiwi wants to 'tell' us how Ireland play the game. Sort of 'oh, yeah, we know what you're doing, we know EXACTLY what you're about. We know it, we'll beat it, so...yeah...you just...you keep doing that thing, and...yeah."

Let's wait and see.

[Taylorman]

Rubbish. Stupid dichotomy. 'Fighters not strategists'. Simplistic stuff. They're not exclusive.

Really, yet it’s exactly what they do every time they get behind. Ireland are not a smart team. In Sexton and Murray they have a couple of thinkers but generally, Joseph, and Paul, are right. They revert to type under scoreboard pressure and for Joseph to have worked that out with a tier two team is quite embarrassing for Irish rugby. ‘Let the big dumb oafs turn it up when the heats on, and we’ll just go around them’.

They got played big time. Walked into a trap so wide they didn’t know what to do.

That will be Ireland’s problem. Complete and utter predictability. Except for a Sexton switch or nicely laid on chip, or a Murray snipe, Ireland’s marauding pack will just keep pounding towards the line all day, no thinking required.

Must have been a fluke that they got to world number 1 ranking so

Well you explain how they got it, because the demise of SH rugby due to exports in the hundreds is the only thing that explains why three NH sides suddenly go up, and three SH sides suddenly goes down.

That’s too coincidental. And genuine no.1 sides don’t go losing by 50 and losing to tier two sides. Your saying the current Irish, Welsh sides are THE best in the pro era?

Please. You wouldn’t pick a single Irishman in a world XV today. If Ireland’s playing worlds best rugby, then standards sure have dropped. (And, they actually have).

[Taylorman]

Rubbish. Stupid dichotomy. 'Fighters not strategists'. Simplistic stuff. They're not exclusive.

Really, yet it’s exactly what they do every time they get behind.

Not sure about that. Since NZ lost it seems every Kiwi wants to 'tell' us how Ireland play the game. Sort of 'oh, yeah, we know what you're doing, we know EXACTLY what you're about. We know it, we'll beat it, so...yeah...you just...you keep doing that thing, and...yeah."

Let's wait and see.

Well, Joseph just told you how Ireland play the game didn’t he? Or were you not listening? Again?

[Guest]

Ok AB fans lets get those excuses ready.....

1. We were sick
2. We had to make Men in Black 2
3. There was a typhoon
4. That ref was cheating
5. Typhoon
6. We were undercooked cos we didnt play Italy
7. Sick
8. Ref
9. We weren't allowed to do head shots anymore

10. You stole our coach
11. You stole our players
12. You stole our women...

[SecretFly]

How does that work then? Ireland have a consistent record in losing at this thing, yet were ‘dumb’ enough to get caught out by a tier two side enough to dump them into second place to meet the ABs?

This is where the smarties will howl that was the plan but the non dumb amongst us know it wasn’t. Ireland got found out so easily by another kiwi coach that if they, and their fans, were smart enough, they’d say so.

Yet here we are.

You're consistently making me drool for an Ireland v Japan final Taylor .  

SA will have a chance for vengeance at the weekend.... actually they had it a few weeks back.  But they won't mind hitting home the point twice in quick succession I'm sure.

If not this WC - one day Japan will pay the price for our defeat, as a zombie brain-dead horde of Irish Neanderthals put them to the sword mercilessly.  

Vengeance is sweet..... as you of course well know.  It's already bubbling in the minds of Kiwis ....

[Guest]

Well, Joseph just told you how Ireland play the game didn’t he? Or were you not listening? Again?

Calm down. You're very het up. You say you love the banter and know how to take losing but you do work yourself up sometimes to the point you don't understand the points youre making arent just contradictory, theyre hypocritical.

Ireland got the Japan game wrong. Clearly. Rested players, went soft, probably switched off mentally as well, particularly half time, expecting another quick effort at the start of the second half would get the bonus point and they could think move on and think about South Africa.

Or maybe Joe wants the All Blacks...

[Taylorman]

Well, Joseph just told you how Ireland play the game didn’t he? Or were you not listening? Again?

Calm down. You're very het up. You say you love the banter and know how to take losing but you do work yourself up sometimes to the point you don't understand the points youre making arent just contradictory, theyre hypocritical.

Ireland got the Japan game wrong. Clearly. Rested players, went soft, probably switched off mentally as well, particularly half time, expecting another quick effort at the start of the second half would get the bonus point and they could think move on and think about South Africa.

Or maybe Joe wants the All Blacks...

Who’s not calm, you seem to involve yourself in the mind of the poster. What is not calm about the question. And what part of ‘rested players, went soft, probably switched off mentally as well, etc etc’ can not only be classified as dumb.

BOD said Schmidt is by far the best analyst and thinker in this game. Yet here we are, all dumbed out for several reasons to a tier two side.

There’s a dumbness emanating out of a certain region for sides reportedly challenging for the number one position. Talk about lowering the standards.

[Guest]

You're making baseless accusations about me 'not listening' 'again', apparently - you sound a bit ranty, mate.

Who knows whether it was dumb? Ireland may well have preferred to face the ABs than the Boks. It's *the* team Schmidt (and Farrell) changed their gameplan to compete with and beat. The whole model was on beating the All Blacks, and then tailoring it for everyone else. It's had mixed success, but was losing to Japan failure? In a way, obviously, they lost - but in other ways, who knows?

A loss in a team - any team, any failure - brings out all the unsaid stuff. All those niggling issues get brought out, laid bare - or they should have done. The shackles - mental and physical, and even tactical - may well be off.

We've seen Ireland play utterly controlling rugby. It takes time to perfect and hone the areas they focus on - it's not pretty, it's horrible to support your face when playing them, no doubt it's horrible to play against as well. But that's the game. To say they're just dumb and 'fighters' and not strategic is so far off the mark it's unreal. There's strategy in everything they do - likewise the England game v Ireland. What a game that was - yes, not one we'll likely see repeated in Japan due to styles, but it's an intriguing way to play rugby.

Will they do something totally different tomorrow? Doubt it. But will they do exactly what they do when losing and they've been poor? No, I doubt it as well. Expect at least some things different - some 'not dumb' rugby.

Your points about dumbness are getting in to the realms of playground taunts. Not even sure what point you're making other than, you know, 'your' main point for being here.

[Taylorman]

Because Schmidt said the one thing he regretted was having to meet a Hansen this early, regardless of who went out.

And if you are even contemplating that Schmidt and Ireland chose to lose to Japan so they could avoid SA and play NZ then you can join the dumb team. That’s not even a conversation worth having.

Quit the mumbo jumbo and get with the plan. It’s simple. Ireland messed up. Period. Read your passage above. Such a flakey mix of mumbo jumbo based on equally poor theory.

They were dumb, that’s the key to how they lost. What part of resting players, went soft, mentally switched off using your own words cannot be classified as dumb in a critical World Cup match.

No wonder you’re all over the place. Trying to conjure up theories when the answer is right smack in front of you.

Against Japan, Ireland were dumb.

Now say it three times and then you’ll get it, and maybe save yourself another ten thousand words expressing how they might not be considered dumb.

This game is easier to analyse than you think.

[Guest]

Again, you're taking press conferences at face value. Yeah he might have said that - does he mean it? Who knows...no team goes out to lose, but the prep they would have done specifically on Japan would mean nothing by the QFs - don't lose too much paying NZ instead of the Boks. Different styles, different problems. I would imagine Schmidt et al have done infinitely more work on SA and NZ than Japan - and that's the point. That's not dumb, it's called prioritising.

What part of that don't you understand? Ireland were very average the last autumn, if I'm not mistaken. First game up - can't remember who - they just scraped a win. And then, lo and behold, they go and dominate and beat the All Blacks. Some games are more important than others. They lost to Japan, but as they'd effectively qualified due to beating Scotland so comprehensively, it wasn't the worst thing in the world. You'd imagine if France or Scotland were second seeds in NZ's pool it would be different, but as it's SA, no big 'win' in topping the pool either way. Wales are probably tougher for Ireland to beat than England as well. So, no benefit to avoiding NZ or the 'tough' side of the draw for Ireland.

You need to relax a bit. Actually, a lot. You're throwing out wild accusations and clearly plucking things out of your @rse, not showing lateral thinking, and want to tell people that, yes, the blind spots other people are revealing in your logic DON'T matter, because you're a Kiwi, and dammit that COUNTS for something.

[SecretFly]

In a way I suppose you have to save your best game for that final.  Now it mightn't be your prettiest game as has been proven in the past.  Indeed, pardon me for suggesting so but often teams play their most boring game for the very final.  Kudos Ireland for giving the boring game the exposure it deserves .  Everyone is beating minnows these days with cricket scores.  It's not really the game for two heavy duty finalists though.

Anyway.... I digress.  Joe Schmidt saying he regrets meeting NZ so early.  Well, perhaps that's read as fear and a degree of defeatism even before the game is played.  But I think it's just a natural disappointment that his players will be asked to give their Final performance to a game before the final.  If they were to win, how much would be left in the tank for potentially two more big games?

So timing is probably his issue.  But I say it again, Hansen can put the old gaze of yawning disinterest on as much as he likes, but he will have wanted to see Scotland on the other end of the field for his QF, if only to have his troops fully fresh for the first 'big' game on his agenda - England.

He won't be running scared.  Joe won't be running scared either.  But timing might have been better for both.
Who cares now though - game on.

[Taylorman]

Think you’re going off the deep end miaow. You’ve got too many theories in your head that aren’t reflective of what’s happening. If you can’t tell that Ireland are worse at this point than last time then you’re deluded. They may well beat the ABs tonight but that doesn’t change the facts.

Last time they won the 6N, they were unbeaten in pool. This time they didn’t, they were hammered by a England this year, twice. They lost to Japan. They finished second in pool, just.Theyve lost four tests this year. More than any of the 8 qualifiers, including Japan.

When you come to conclusions, part of that is being able to weigh up opinion, versus the facts. You base far to much of your conclusions from opinion and bias to be taken seriously.

To be able to conclude that NZ are worse, and Ireland ‘hard to tell’ is simply myopic, poor analysis, biased, and frankly, dumb.

[SecretFly]

Fun Question:

To teams that had to play all four games - which team would you have wanted to be declared a draw if you had a choice.

I'm first!!   Japan.

So now we're back on even territory with some of the big favourites.  So Taylor, what do you say now?  We crushed Scotland, played rope-a-dope with Russia to give a Tier 2 side more confidence about themselves, beat Samoa with mostly 14 men and 47 points....and although the draw was imposed on us with Japan, it's as clear as day, given our other results against a few minnows and Scotland that we would have beaten them too....

That's what we could say, had we a game called off like some of the favourites.  And who would really be any the wiser to claim different?

[Guest]

Na, Ireland dispatched Scotland with ease. They've beaten NZ last autumn, and again 2 years before that. They have GS to their name 18 months ago. They're a good team, with 4 more years' worth of experience across the board, from coaches to players. One loss to a Japan side in what clearly looks like the true pool of death is hardly a sign they're weak - in the end they got blown away by Argentina, so weren't great shakes 4 years ago.

You sound a bit nervous. It's presumably game day down when you are. Maybe relax a bit? Go for a walk? Have a nap?

[SecretFly]

Anyway, big weekend ahead.  The joy of relief for the lucky who get another week, and black roses for the coffins of the defeated.  Unfortunately, if you don't win, you lose.

The games pretty much all look like they could be stormers.  Hope it's a classic game between your guys and our guys, Taylor.  It's a beautiful game for extreme emotions. I'll be virtually on the field.  My muscles will ache completely after it as they'll be so tight during it.

Enjoy your games guys.     I'm closing down to think of other things until tomorrow.

[Taylorman]

Ireland did some good things, but when push came to shove, they crumbled in their first ‘test’. World Cup rugby, we’ve learned, is about leaving nothing to chance. For Ireland to be caught out like that, regardless of Japan’s efforts, was poor.

Ireland were touted as one of the favourites. With that favouritism comes responsibility.

Tonight they get a ‘second crack’ at it, so they’re lucky in that respect. Most don’t.

For me I think the media talk is slightly over expressing an Irish upset, particularly out of the NH, and older players (most of whom incidentally, like BOD, D’Arcy, Coach O’Sullivan who couldn’t pull off a win like it in their entire careers) are in on the zack.

NZ are being relatively quiet on that front. We love the fact that we are likely to be upset, beaten, so this is exactly how I saw this week playing out from a media perspective.

A lot of nervous people saying the wrong things at the wrong time. Miaow is encapsulating that beautifully.

ABs as always will leave heir talking to the field, so it matters not what us fans say. But you’ll not you don’t see a truckload of past All Blacks clamouring to say the ABs will smash Ireland. Cos they know that doesn’t help the cause.

In this game talk is cheap, what each side has done during the week matters most.

[Taylorman]

Anyway, big weekend ahead.  The joy of relief for the lucky who get another week, and black roses for the coffins of the defeated.  Unfortunately, if you don't win, you lose.

The games pretty much all look like they could be stormers.  Hope it's a classic game between your guys and our guys, Taylor.  It's a beautiful game for extreme emotions. I'll be virtually on the field.  My muscles will ache completely after it as they'll be so tight during it.

Enjoy your games guys.     I'm closing down to think of other things until tomorrow.

Yep enjoy fly. Things will be alright on the night. No harm in letting off a bit of hot air now and then.

Good luck to Ireland, both sides are going to need it

[Guest]

Ireland did some good things, but when push came to shove, they crumbled in their first ‘test’. World Cup rugby, we’ve learned

Just stopping you there.

1. Their first test was Scotland. They dismantled them.
2. You do not equal the ABs. 'We' is just 'you', and by 'you' you mean whatever narrative currently suits the ABs.

'We' get it. NH bad, SH good.

[Engine#4]

NZ are being relatively quiet on that front. We love the fact that we are likely to be upset, beaten, so this is exactly how I saw this week playing out from a media perspective.

But you’ll not you don’t see a truckload of past All Blacks clamouring to say the ABs will smash Ireland. Cos they know that doesn’t help the cause.

Apart from Justin Marshall. Gregor Paul. Zinzan Brooke. Hamish Bidwell. Liam Hyslop...have I missed any

[Guest]

Hahaha.

You've missed one. Apparently I'm nervous and my chat is a big mistake.

Kieran Read is pinning up my comments on the changing room wall as we speak...

[Taylorman]

Oh the old resignation beat. Yes Ireland beat Scotland, but they weren’t they’re first real test. They were poor. Japan wasn’t. In this comp you can’t afford to be blindsided. Schmidt, for all his analysis and knowledge everyone has touted, messed up. Big time.

I don’t care what your spin on that is, that’s the truth. If that happened to us we would seriously question our prep. Here you are defending them to a degree. There’s no point in that. You don’t gain anything from trying to justify it.

You learn from unearthing exactly what they missed to allow that to happen. You learn, from examining what you could control and not.

Throwing fluffy theories around doesn’t do a thing. Ireland need to extract whatever they did wrong to be triply sure none of it surfaces vs the ABs. Easy to say, very...very difficult to do in such a short timeframe. If minds were weak in the last four weeks, that’s a big problem with the years prep.

[Taylorman]

NZ are being relatively quiet on that front. We love the fact that we are likely to be upset, beaten, so this is exactly how I saw this week playing out from a media perspective.

But you’ll not you don’t see a truckload of past All Blacks clamouring to say the ABs will smash Ireland. Cos they know that doesn’t help the cause.

Apart from Justin Marshall. Gregor Paul. Zinzan Brooke. Hamish Bidwell. Liam Hyslop...have I missed any

Yeah thought there might be some out there. Haven’t seen them. Oh reporters will do it, that’s their bread and butter. Still think it’s top heavy with upset talk but fair enough, people will say what they wanna say.

[Guest]

Riiiiiight. Ok. Scotland and Japan looked pretty evenly matched to me. But pretty clear who the first test was. You don't get extra points for winning your group.

None of that matters now. If anyting, losing helped reveal the cracks and they've had a few weeks to work on it. You can 'spin' anything - all it means is there are many, many truths all in existence, all at the same time. It's just which ones you pick and put forward that matter.

You sound really, really nervous T - projecting, no doubt, saying I am. I have zero skin in the game for this one. Don't care who wins or loses. Just want a good game of rugby. This point about Ireland being better or worse than 2015 has dragged over, but I'm just calling it how I see it. Better players, for one. Carberry over Madigan. Other key positions. Beirne, Stockdale, Ryan etc. and more experience for Henderson, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Best.

It's pretty clear that Ireland got their prep wrong 4 years ago, and that experience will have informed them this year. Not much good topping the group only to lose to the team finishing 2nd in the other draw. Where's the benefit there? At least get past the team that loses and go out in the SF, surely? If Ireland get hammered tomorrow, maybe it's hard to say it worked, maybe it's hard to say they're no better than 2015. But by all accounts they're a tricky team to call at the moment - a few fine details and they can be world class, which we never saw in 2015.

But maybe you'd be better off not pushing your narrative and listening to other Irish posters as well, ones saying they're better than 4 years ago.

Ireland could beat NZ tomorrow. I'm not even busting balls here, I'm genuinely a bit worried about you as you're getting properly wound up and have been getting worse in the lead up to the RWC. I have no idea what your life is like, but if taking it out on the forum is as far as it goes, fine, so be it. But just try and relax. Ireland are a good team, NZ aren't what they were - it's not out of the realm of possibility Ireland win, even if it's as likely NZ run away with an easy victory. Just bring it down a notch. Still 12 hours away from K/O. Not the worst thing in the world if the ABs lose, more important things than rugby. Let's just hope for a great game - no doubt they've been classics in this WC cycle.

[Engine#4]

Hahaha.

You've missed one. Apparently I'm nervous and my chat is a big mistake.

Kieran Read is pinning up my comments on the changing room wall as we speak...

Who'd I miss?? I still have a bit of space on the fridge

[Taylorman]

Riiiiiight. Ok. Scotland and Japan looked pretty evenly matched to me. But pretty clear who the first test was. You don't get extra points for winning your group.

None of that matters now. If anyting, losing helped reveal the cracks and they've had a few weeks to work on it. You can 'spin' anything - all it means is there are many, many truths all in existence, all at the same time. It's just which ones you pick and put forward that matter.

You sound really, really nervous T - projecting, no doubt, saying I am. I have zero skin in the game for this one. Don't care who wins or loses. Just want a good game of rugby. This point about Ireland being better or worse than 2015 has dragged over, but I'm just calling it how I see it. Better players, for one. Carberry over Madigan. Other key positions. Beirne, Stockdale, Ryan etc. and more experience for Henderson, Murray, Sexton, Earls, Best.

It's pretty clear that Ireland got their prep wrong 4 years ago, and that experience will have informed them this year. Not much good topping the group only to lose to the team finishing 2nd in the other draw. Where's the benefit there? At least get past the team that loses and go out in the SF, surely? If Ireland get hammered tomorrow, maybe it's hard to say it worked, maybe it's hard to say they're no better than 2015. But by all accounts they're a tricky team to call at the moment - a few fine details and they can be world class, which we never saw in 2015.

But maybe you'd be better off not pushing your narrative and listening to other Irish posters as well, ones saying they're better than 4 years ago.

Ireland could beat NZ tomorrow. I'm not even busting balls here, I'm genuinely a bit worried about you as you're getting properly wound up and have been getting worse in the lead up to the RWC. I have no idea what your life is like, but if taking it out on the forum is as far as it goes, fine, so be it. But just try and relax. Ireland are a good team, NZ aren't what they were - it's not out of the realm of possibility Ireland win, even if it's as likely NZ run away with an easy victory. Just bring it down a notch. Still 12 hours away from K/O. Not the worst thing in the world if the ABs lose, more important things than rugby. Let's just hope for a great game - no doubt they've been classics in this WC cycle.

For someone who’s not interested you’re sure invested. We lose tomorrow I’m good, prepared for that long ago. It’s what you get used to waiting six world cups for your next win. One is nothing. A break, time for someone else to hog the limelight.

Still looks like a kiwi somewhere will be in the final so losing will be in the knowledge that it’s other kiwis helping plo5 our downfall. Schmidt, scrum coach feek, Joseph, Brown, Gats, Mitchell etc.

We gain the knowledge that NZ rugby is in high demand, win or lose.

Can’t speak for other kiwis, especially the younger ones who don’t get what we went through to get here as fans.

All good, we lose, all congratulate Ireland and probably hope they win it, after a Japan that is, rather a more worthwhile style wins it myself. Then take a break from here and move on. No probs.

Good luck with a Wales, Im sure they won’t need it, but as I said, don’t take those French lightly, that’s when they pounce.

[Guest]

I'm interested, not invested. You've got the two mixed up.

Good to see you putting a positive spin on it if NZ do lose. The old 'moral victory' card...

[Taylorman]

This is the sort of dumb thing I mean...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116712390/all-blacks-v-ireland-irish-writer-questions-nz-values-over-sevu-reece-selection

This no name clown comes out with the Reece thing and Connacht on the eve of the test.
This was dealt with long ago. Connacht took the approach at the time not to take up the contract. Since then the ABs have worked through his issues.

That’s what people do. Support each other. Reece is now a better person for it.

This OConnor Nobody Muppet? Exactly why we will want to put Ireland to the sword. What a clown.

[Taylorman]

I'm interested, not invested. You've got the two mixed up.

Good to see you putting a positive spin on it if NZ do lose. The old 'moral victory' card...

Yes, three home unions qualify, the only one that doesn’t ditches its SH coach. Last time England miss qualifying, this time they’re doing everything right. Japan are the upset side of the tournament, coincidentally with two Highlanders coaches on board.

You probably think you’re watching NH rugby huh?

[Guest]

I see Richie Mo’unga has been attributing his rise to the coaching of Ronan O’Gara, or words to that effect. So if the ABs win, there will a bit of Ireland going through to the next round

[Taylorman]

Cool, that’s great. It’s good that the NH actually contribute something. OGaras enlightenment about how the Crusaders roll has been a great experience. He learned a lot after the initial shock at how a franchise can and should be run. Hopefully he can take that on as coach for Ireland one day. Mo’unga has certainly appreciated OGraras knowledge and experience.

Which only goes to confirm the amount of impact SH coaches must be having on dozens of NH sides, making one assistant coach this way a drop in the ocean.

But it’s a good start.

[Old Man]

I see Richie Mo’unga has been attributing his rise to the coaching of Ronan O’Gara, or words to that effect. So if the ABs win, there will a bit of Ireland going through to the next round

Nice one Oracle. O’Gara did seem to enjoy his stint in NZ

[Taylorman]

Was great having him too. The Crusaders were much better for it. With Robertson destined for better things I wouldn’t be surprised if they hooked up at some point again.

Don’t know if Head coach of Ireland is on OGaras radar but what started with a simple chat with Dan Carter a few years ago resulted in a big win win for everyone. OGara was fantastic.

[Collapse2005]

I see Richie Mo’unga has been attributing his rise to the coaching of Ronan O’Gara, or words to that effect. So if the ABs win, there will a bit of Ireland going through to the next round

Nice one Oracle. O’Gara did seem to enjoy his stint in NZ

4 of the ABs squad lived in Ireland when they were younger. The three Barretts and Angus Ta'avao.

[Collapse2005]

Was great having him too. The Crusaders were much better for it. With Robertson destined for better things I wouldn’t be surprised if they hooked up at some point again.

Don’t know if Head coach of Ireland is on OGaras radar but what started with a simple chat with Dan Carter a few years ago resulted in a big win win for everyone. OGara was fantastic.

Steve Hansen didnt like him, wasnt happy OGara was coaching there.

[Collapse2005]

Rubbish. Stupid dichotomy. 'Fighters not strategists'. Simplistic stuff. They're not exclusive.

Really, yet it’s exactly what they do every time they get behind. Ireland are not a smart team. In Sexton and Murray they have a couple of thinkers but generally, Joseph, and Paul, are right. They revert to type under scoreboard pressure and for Joseph to have worked that out with a tier two team is quite embarrassing for Irish rugby. ‘Let the big dumb oafs turn it up when the heats on, and we’ll just go around them’.

They got played big time. Walked into a trap so wide they didn’t know what to do.

That will be Ireland’s problem. Complete and utter predictability. Except for a Sexton switch or nicely laid on chip, or a Murray snipe, Ireland’s marauding pack will just keep pounding towards the line all day, no thinking required.

Must have been a fluke that they got to world number 1 ranking so

Well you explain how they got it, because the demise of SH rugby due to exports in the hundreds is the only thing that explains why three NH sides suddenly go up, and three SH sides suddenly goes down.

That’s too coincidental. And genuine no.1 sides don’t go losing by 50 and losing to tier two sides. Your saying the current Irish, Welsh sides are THE best in the pro era?

Please. You wouldn’t pick a single Irishman in a world XV today. If Ireland’s playing worlds best rugby, then standards sure have dropped. (And, they actually have).

No I dont think it explains it at all. NZ have more imports in their squad than Ireland. 4 of the ABs squad have lived in Ireland and another 4 are from overseas. Thats the world we live in. Your coach also lived in the NH for a while (as a flop).

Id pick quite a few Irish players ahead of their NZ counterpart.

NZ got spanked by Australia themselves who are a lower ranked side than England.

Why are you so reluctant to apply the same rules and logic to your own side?

[Taylorman]

What’s it got to do with Hansen? Not his brief to decide who the Saders have on staff. Unless it’s paranoia.

[Collapse2005]

What’s it got to do with Hansen? Not his brief to decide who the Saders have on staff. Unless it’s paranoia.

No clue but OGara seems to think Hansen didnt like him.

[Taylorman]

Rubbish. Stupid dichotomy. 'Fighters not strategists'. Simplistic stuff. They're not exclusive.

Really, yet it’s exactly what they do every time they get behind. Ireland are not a smart team. In Sexton and Murray they have a couple of thinkers but generally, Joseph, and Paul, are right. They revert to type under scoreboard pressure and for Joseph to have worked that out with a tier two team is quite embarrassing for Irish rugby. ‘Let the big dumb oafs turn it up when the heats on, and we’ll just go around them’.

They got played big time. Walked into a trap so wide they didn’t know what to do.

That will be Ireland’s problem. Complete and utter predictability. Except for a Sexton switch or nicely laid on chip, or a Murray snipe, Ireland’s marauding pack will just keep pounding towards the line all day, no thinking required.

Must have been a fluke that they got to world number 1 ranking so

Well you explain how they got it, because the demise of SH rugby due to exports in the hundreds is the only thing that explains why three NH sides suddenly go up, and three SH sides suddenly goes down.

That’s too coincidental. And genuine no.1 sides don’t go losing by 50 and losing to tier two sides. Your saying the current Irish, Welsh sides are THE best in the pro era?

Please. You wouldn’t pick a single Irishman in a world XV today. If Ireland’s playing worlds best rugby, then standards sure have dropped. (And, they actually have).

No I dont think it explains it at all. NZ have more imports in their squad than Ireland. 4 of the ABs squad have lived in Ireland and another 4 are from overseas. Thats the world we live in. Your coach also lived in the NH for a while (as a flop).

Id pick quite a few Irish players ahead of their NZ counterpart.

NZ got spanked by Australia themselves who are a lower ranked side than England.

Why are you so reluctant to apply the same rules and logic to your own side?

Oh quit it.

Aki was a Chief and professional when he left. As was Schmidt, Lam, Te’o, Anscombe, Gats, Joseph, Parker, Feek, and a plethora of club players.

Name one All Black who was first a professional anywhere else? Bet you can’t even name a single one in history.

You’re saying Ireland created professionals as oz, SA and NZ have for the north and they’re all popping up in our super sides and tests sides?

Name one other than OGara who had a professional career in Ireland and became anything professional here.

There are none I can think of and even if there are they are not central roles of influence as Schmidt, Gats, Anscombe have been. You aren’t good enough to export that level of quality nor quantity.

Japan has clearly succeeded based on heavy input from NZ and you couldn’t even beat them. It’s as clear as day our IP is influencing the world over. That is the reason for the rankings changes, because our SH sides have to go up against coaches like Jones, Gats, Schmidt. When you use your own they falter, as Lancaster did, as Townsend did and certainly as Farrell will.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Brad Thorn

[Taylorman]

Brad Thorn

Oh, well I take it all back. Brad Thorne is the north’s contribution to NZ rugby.

Forgive me, yes, I see the balance now.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Not NH. More closer to home.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11278276

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Brad was the answer to this question

Name one All Black who was first a professional anywhere else? Bet you can’t even name a single one in history.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Was great having him too. The Crusaders were much better for it. With Robertson destined for better things I wouldn’t be surprised if they hooked up at some point again.

Don’t know if Head coach of Ireland is on OGaras radar but what started with a simple chat with Dan Carter a few years ago resulted in a big win win for everyone. OGara was fantastic.

Steve Hansen didnt like him, wasnt happy OGara was coaching there.

Evidence? Or just more bllcrp

[Geen sport voor watjes]

This is the sort of dumb thing I mean...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116712390/all-blacks-v-ireland-irish-writer-questions-nz-values-over-sevu-reece-selection

This no name clown comes out with the Reece thing and Connacht on the eve of the test.
This was dealt with long ago. Connacht took the approach at the time not to take up the contract. Since then the ABs have worked through his issues.

That’s what people do. Support each other. Reece is now a better person for it.

This OConnor Nobody  Muppet? Exactly why we will want to put Ireland to the sword. What a clown.

Agreed. Terrible article.

[Taylorman]

Anscombes an example. In the great tradition of Welsh 10’s that they have a kiwi 10. He wasn’t good enough here for the ABs while playing for the Blues nor Chiefs, yet he’s the best 10 before injury for Wales. For me that would grate.

Then we hear NH is fast catching up with the SH. The Schmidt coached Irish are catching up with the ABs, when it just happens that for the 100 years plus before him they couldnt win a match.

Make no mistake, we know we are going up against our own more and more every year. That’s why we wouldn’t have lost to Japan. They’re playing our style but don’t yet have the players to master it. Nor will SA.

Anyway, we go on. Even if we’re out tomorrow, there are plenty of our own players and coaches to cheer on. But this trend was something we predicted years ago, and the reason for the rankings changes is certainly not because those three countries are producing higher quality players...because...where are they?

[Taylorman]

I don’t know what the answer is but if the status quo continues we are going to end up supplying rather than competing. AB careers will be cut shorter and shorter as they are now as the monetary balance tips towards the north, now increasingly including Japan.
I used to like eating our own grapes. Now you can’t buy them. The entire produce is used for wine overseas.
That’s where our players will end up.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

Take a chill pill will you. You post a lot of good stuff but get really hysterical about some things.

[Geen sport voor watjes]

And I hope you enjoy the game whatever the result

[Taylorman]

Yea time to get ready for the big game. Waffling stops, games start.

Enjoy the games

[The Great Aukster]

Why aren't there NH players and coaches in New Zealand - seriously?
Professional means following the money and it ain't under a long white cloud.

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