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English Championship - restructuring

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 9:33 am

Looks like theres rumours of a big change in the English 2nd tier.

There will be two conferences - North and South and playoffs at the end of the season. Promotion from National League One will come over time for clubs which meet Championship criteria.

The aim is for the Championship to consist of 16 clubs. Players will not be full-time.

Championship reps are meeting with RFU officals today and will also meet with Premier league officials. The idea is to have an agreement by the end of August and the new structure in place for 21-22.

Rumours are they dont want relegation from the prem...?? That would mean ringfencing automatically FOR the prem...

This will be an interesting watch.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 10:06 am

Interesting times indeed. Normally in these situations sporting decisions go out the window and pragmatic political choices come in. If ring fencing is to come in it's likely in my mind to be decided on choice not league position. Think this love probably suits the majority now.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 10:09 am

To me, the Premiership either has to go to 14 clubs if ringfenced (Saracens and Ealing to be added) because 13 is a strange number and Ealing have the money to make it difficult or...this is taking us one step closer to a B&I league with two divisions of 12

It would be a bit of a kick in the teeth to the Championship clubs but realistically there is not the money for two divisions of rugby in England when things were normal, let alone now that the RFU are going to have big cut backs.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 10:32 am

Cant ever see how a B&I league or conference system would interest English clubs. Would be a loss of power and money.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 10:47 am

Hhmm

Some rumours are that we play this season...no relegation, Saracens will be back up and invite Ealing in to a ringfenced 14 team prem.

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Post by Brendan on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 5:35 pm

It seems of the current teams are mostly down south with only Doncaster, Nottingham and Coventry any bit North.  Who would some other teams be or would the RFU look to do a strategic promotion with teams like Darlington being included.

I think Premership would have to be 14 teams.  I know that the RFU use to have the 14th academy attached to Leeds, is that still the case

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Post by SirBurger on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 6:43 pm

Think the Leeds academy got canned as recently as last week, although I haven't read the details.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Thu 23 Jul 2020, 7:55 pm

SirBurger wrote:Think the Leeds academy got canned as recently as last week, although I haven't read the details.

Yep, it's gone. They couldn't keep up their end of the financial obligation.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/37504/exclusive-yorkshire-carnegie-disband-academy-as-rfu-pull-funding-support/

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 9:27 am

Leeds/Yorkshire or whatever they are called this week are in a dire financial state. They were given more time and chances than most to get their house in order but never did. They don't deserve a reprieve.

Rotherham and Hull could be promoted up to the Championship North division. Without relegation they could both concentrate on growing. Though neither club did well in the league this season. Sale FC would be another option and you'd assume they'd have a partnership with Sale Sharks to develop players. Darlington as said above would be the other choice. I suspect a few of the Southern clubs that have performed better in League 1 might be annoyed by them being picked on geographic location as opposed to merit though.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 10:01 am

Rotherham and Hull both got relegated from National League 1. Darlington were the top side north of Birmingham in 7th of a league of 16.

The clear top three were Richmond, Redingensians Rams (Reading) and Rosslyn Park (London).

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 10:28 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:Rotherham and Hull both got relegated from National League 1. Darlington were the top side north of Birmingham in 7th of a league of 16.

The clear top three were Richmond, Redingensians Rams (Reading) and Rosslyn Park (London).

Doesn't help the idea of a northern section though does it. Particularly if you are going to fix the leagues with no relegation for a period of time. If there's no relegation for say three years then we are isolating rugby in the north and with the loss of the Yorkshire academy running the risk of a lot of good talent playing league instead of union. The Midlands is not the North and having only Sale, Falcons and Doncaster in the top two divisions for a fixed period of years is not going to help the sport.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 11:17 am

So if it was 8 teams per conference, the North would be a struggle.

You would have to include...
Darlington
Leeds
Doncaster
Rotheram

But then who?
Hull Ionians
Sale FC

Do you cluster several clubs together to make a "super club"?
Or do you pick the clubs from lower leagues with the most potential (ie the right stadium requirements etc and give them the 3 years to see how the build?



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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 11:28 am

Sale FC finished higher than both Hull and Rotherham last season. Issue being Hull and Rotherham both got relegated. You can add some Midlands teams to help flesh out the Northern division but my point was you don't want the Northern league to be made up of clubs in the Midlands and further south. Cambridge isn't in the North but if you allocate the places on merit they might well be in the Northern conference.

Nottingham, Coventry and possibly Birmingham could all go into the Northern conference. Otherwise it's back to including Bedford and Cambridge and abandoning the North to league.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 11:34 am

But then you're looking at clubs like Blaydon, Tynedale, Northern etc...local up here.

Middlesboro, etc etc?

Plumbing the depths...

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 11:35 am

Althought...we're always told anywhere north of Watford is "North"

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 11:52 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Althought...we're always told anywhere north of Watford is "North"

Always used to be north of Watford Gap (admittingly that being in Northamptonshire it is not all that far north) - but people got very confused by it being nowhere near Watford.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 12:26 pm

As you can see i have aswell Very Happy

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 24 Jul 2020, 2:40 pm

Admittedly Caldy (near Chester?) went undefeated in National League 2 North and Redingensians were the second best side in League 1 after promotion

It is looking grim though for rugby in Northern England

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 30 Jul 2020, 9:46 am

I see theres rumbles that the prem are going to anounce ringfencing from the end of the 20/21 season for 5 years, once Sarries are confirmed back up.

Is that a counter measure to the Championship suggestions...so they acan say "we got there first!"

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 30 Jul 2020, 10:16 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:I see theres rumbles that the prem are going to anounce ringfencing from the end of the 20/21 season for 5 years, once Sarries are confirmed back up.  

Is that a counter measure to the Championship suggestions...so they acan say "we got there first!"

I suspect it is more a case of "Look they do not want to come up, so why don't we..."

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 30 Jul 2020, 10:17 am

Funny how all the "ringfencing" talk went away when Saracens went down?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 30 Jul 2020, 1:34 pm

Looks like its on its way anyway...so can we expect a change in styles by some teams, if theres no risk.

i would certainly expect us to take off the shackles and a play a less restricted risk free game.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 30 Jul 2020, 2:39 pm

Places of teams (how good they are) has never impacted organisations in the past when it comes to.commercial decisions. In the women's premier league (footy) doncaster belles were kicked out for Man City. They same decisions will be made in rugby I'm sure.

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Post by Margin_Walker on Fri 31 Jul 2020, 10:54 am

Detailed summary of the proposal

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/english-rugby-shake-up-includes-new-pound12m-television-deal-for-re-modelled-championship/

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 31 Jul 2020, 11:10 am

Wow some very interesting ideas there mind.
I like it.

And its geared very much as a feeder league for the Prem...and ultimately England.
Squads will only have 10 players over the age of 24.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri 31 Jul 2020, 11:14 am

Turning it into an American system.

There are parts to like and dislike. Turning it into what will be almost an u24 league seems like a halfway house with the A teams.

How does promotion and relegation with League 1 and the Championship work if the best League 1 teams are all in the south?

What happens if a team (say Newcastle) draft a player from Cornwall who does not want to go north or vice versa? Is it they can only sign for the team that drafts them if they play in England? It will support salaries of young players with minimum salaries of £50k but it will also ceiling the salaries of the most talented. What happens with a player who gets called up to the senior squad due to injuries/internationals? Is there a loan programme with a minimum salary guarantee and housing? Not able to contract any EQ player who is not drafted is a strange one. How does it work legally with limitations of work?

How does it work with SQ/WQ/IQ youngsters whose families are in England? I am guessing it will push England u20 supremacy.


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Post by Margin_Walker on Fri 31 Jul 2020, 11:36 am

The salary piece stood out for me. If anything the figures look pretty high for the first years of those contracts especially. Not many lads in senior academies on 90k at 19 which would be mandatory for the top band as I understand it. Perhaps evens out over a three year contract.

The whole thing leads to a mountain of questions, but does seem to have some momentum behind it.

I don't completely hate it, despite the implications for club academies. Just not sure whether the numbers will add up and whether the prem clubs will buy in to it.

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Post by Brendan on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 11:32 am

Will the changing of the RFU run academy system from 14 to 6 mean that the Premership teams will still have theirs in partnership with the RFU of is it planned all youngsters coming through the championship.

Can't see why Sarries who seem to have a great academy would not carry on with their academy but now open it up to the whole country much like the the football academies.  Surely if a player at 18 was offered a place in an RFU academy or a top Premership academy they would choose the Premership academy as you will be at a club rather than hoping to be seen by one while having to play in the championship.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 04 Aug 2020, 12:19 pm

Brendan wrote:Will the changing of the RFU run academy system from 14 to 6 mean that the Premership teams will still have theirs in partnership with the RFU of is it planned all youngsters coming through the championship.

Can't see why Sarries who seem to have a great academy would not carry on with their academy but now open it up to the whole country much like the the football academies.  Surely if a player at 18 was offered a place in an RFU academy or a top Premership academy they would choose the Premership academy as you will be at a club rather than hoping to be seen by one while having to play in the championship.

That is only the suggestion from Griffiths (along with the ensuing draft). If it came to pass these hubs would have first access to players making PRL academies largely irrelevant. RFU have scrapped the Leeds Academy to save money, but made no noises that they support this idea.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 05 Aug 2020, 11:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Brendan wrote:Will the changing of the RFU run academy system from 14 to 6 mean that the Premership teams will still have theirs in partnership with the RFU of is it planned all youngsters coming through the championship.

Can't see why Sarries who seem to have a great academy would not carry on with their academy but now open it up to the whole country much like the the football academies.  Surely if a player at 18 was offered a place in an RFU academy or a top Premership academy they would choose the Premership academy as you will be at a club rather than hoping to be seen by one while having to play in the championship.

That is only the suggestion from Griffiths (along with the ensuing draft). If it came to pass these hubs would have first access to players making PRL academies largely irrelevant. RFU have scrapped the Leeds Academy to save money, but made no noises that they support this idea.

I think Leeds was closed because the club couldn't meet the cash requirement that had been part of the deal. I can't see Sarries agreeing to give up their academy which has produced so much. Because money isn't an issue for them they would be able to self fund the academy easily enough. I think teams like Worcesther might struggle to self fund if the RFU pulled funding.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 06 Aug 2020, 9:35 am

RFU have cut a lot of jobs from grassroots rugby in part to keep funding available for the academy system.

IF Griffith's idea is taken up by the RFU it would create a massive problem for the PRL sides. It would mean that if they want to have academies they would only be allowed to select the dregs left over after the new Regional Academies have filled their slots. I also cannot see the proposed draft system appealing to the top flight clubs.

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