The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Leicester Tigers 2020-21

+7
No 7&1/2
Heaf
GeordieFalcon
LondonTiger
formerly known as Sam
Gooseberry
king_carlos
11 posters

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 16 Nov 2020, 8:55 am

First topic message reminder :

No Geordie, Boris or Taylor. Borthwick definitively the top man and fair few new signings.

Head coach - Borthwick
Defence coach - Ford
Head of physical performance - Walters
Backs/attack coach - Smith (interim)

1.Genge, Gigena, Leatigaga, Bower, Whitcombe
2.Youngs, Clare, Mamukashvili, Kerr
3.Cole, Heyes, de Bruin, Dimen
4.Lavanini, Enever, Martin
5.Green, Wells, Henderson, Chessum
6.Brink, Lewis, Lavin
7.Taufua, Reffell, Wallace, Coghlan
8.Liebenberg, Wiese, Smith

9.Youngs, Wigglesworth, White, van Poortvliet
10.Ford, Bonilla, Henry, McPhillips

11.Nadolo, Williams, Simmons, Aspland-Robinson
12.Scott, Taute, Hardwick
13.Moroni, Porter, Kelly
14.van Wyk, Potter, Olowofela, Browning
15.Steward, Murimurivalu, Worth

There's a fair few things I like about that squad. The pack in particular looks promising with some good signings and a few development squad players looking ready for first XV rugby. Liebenberg, Brink, Wiese and de Bruin is a lot of Bok muscle, the sort of thing that many of us have felt was missing.

In the centre there's a few players I'm less convinced by but Steward coming through in the back three could be great for this side. Not wanting to heap pressure on the lad but if we are going to persist with a kick heavy game plan then a fullback with his boot and presence under the high ball could be vital.

I'm increasingly struggling to see where a few of the backs fit into the squad. Hardwick, McPhillips, Worth and Olowofela in particular. Kelly seemed to be getting deserved game time in the centre. Williams and Potter have signed as similar aged back three squad/project players. Aspland-Robinson regaining fitness and Simmons shifting position adds to that bracket. The Steward has broken through and Browning is coming up the rails. Plenty of good news for the squad as a whole there but perhaps not for those guys who might struggle to make an impact.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down


Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 10 Feb 2021, 6:13 pm

Sam Lewis on loan to Coventry. Good news and hopefully he can progress with game time.

Browning, Dimen, Ilione and Coghlan on loan to Nottingham. Notts have a lot of loans from Prem clubs so will be interested to see how the youngsters fare. It's impressive for Ilione in particular to get a Championship contract in his first year out of school. Martin at the same stage last year was with Leicester Lions in National 2 South for instance.

Dave Egerton also floating George Kruis to Tigers in the Welford Weekly email blast. That would be a brilliant signing. When Kruis left for Japan he said he'd only want to play for Sarries in the Premiership but that was before covid, cap reduction and Borthwick joining. He'd be a brilliant signing.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 10 Feb 2021, 9:45 pm

On the Notts website I can only see the four Tigers as loans being announced.

Dimen desperately needed to go out on loan and get senior experience. Coghlan is meh but rated by Notts so I suspect he's been sent to sweeten the deal and ensure Browning and Ilione get game time. Shame we couldn't get Owolfela and Hardwick game time but I'm guessing they might get moved in soon and the Championship clubs are probably getting a lot of offers from Prem clubs.

Ilione was a surprise because I thought he was studying down in London and only doing rugby part time. He is a massive talent though so if he's around its not a surprise he's being eyed for development. If he flies at Nottingham and he has the potential to do that then he could easily be in and around the first team next season. Playing A league, Challenge Cup and LV Cup if that's still a thing by then.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 10 Feb 2021, 11:32 pm

My bad Sam, mixing up Coventry who have loans from lots of clubs. There will be significant Tigers feel to Notts.

Aniseko Sio
Owen Hills
Jake Farnworth
Will Owen
Ifereimi Boladau
Charlie Thacker - Glad to see he's got a club, from what I can tell he hasn't played senior rugby since the 17/18 season

Plus the loanees.

Dimen has a good player to fight past in Oisin Heffernan (who played second XV this season) so will be a good test of his development.

Ilione will be studying remotely I presume so might have chosen to study from back home to save on rent.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 11 Feb 2021, 9:28 am

Good point on Ilione. He might have also deferred his start for a year rather than have all the remote learning issues though you'd presume he'd have arranged to do a proportion remotely to enable him to still train and play with the development side.

Dimen learning from Heffernan should be good for him. The Championship teams of the season last year were split between Heffernan and the Jersey tighthead that Sarries signed (Clarey?) As to whom was the best in the league. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Heffernan on Tigers books next season and Dimen doing another season on loan. Heffernan is mid twenties so prime age. Dimen is a big unit and the Championship will be the physical challenge he needs.

I'm interested to see how Browning goes. Given some half decent ball he should be ripping it up.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Mar 2021, 9:18 am

https://www.leicestertigers.com/news/olowofela-loan-force-210228?fbclid=IwAR1-tKRrBs65RFA0NVVIWBt3DT1-4HY6gW0nIvhoSFWilbIw3-NI6CTf3qk

Olowofela joins Western Force on loan for the 2021 Super Rugby season. That's fantastic news and I'm delighted for Jordan. He's struggled in senior rugby which has been frustrating at times but has largely played in really poor sides. If he can rediscover the pace and running lines that made him standout in age grade rugby then I still think he could kick on in mens rugby.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 01 Mar 2021, 9:40 am

Lucky lad. Perth is very nice and not under lockdown. It's a great opportunity for him to get some game time and show that Tigers need to be talking about him in their long term plans. He's got the potential he just hasn't delivered enough on that potential yet.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by Gooseberry Mon 01 Mar 2021, 4:49 pm

Yeah don't think its a bad move for him or Tigers. The game down there could suit him a lot better as well as the weather. If it frees up some cap / cash to prop up the squad elsewhere thats a bonus.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8056
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 01 Mar 2021, 4:53 pm

I don't imagine Olowofela is on much but he hasn't played for Tigers this season so won't count under the cap I don't think.

Jake White has confirmed that Marco van Staden won't be with the Bulls next season in an interview. The same report mentions that he will be joining Tigers. It sounds like that deal is done but for the announcement which is great news.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 01 Mar 2021, 6:56 pm

I doubt the Force will be contributing all his wages, sounds more like a development opportunity, particularly with Borthwick's comments about looking forward to seeing how he develops.

I think the squad is in a decent position at present, not sure it needs propping up. We're running a little lean in some areas but the development lads are plugging gaps. Best shown by Whitcombe coming off the bench at the weekend and doing a really good job at just 19. 

For next season we've got;

1. Genge, Leatigaga (plays both sides), van Wyk (rumoured), Whitcombe
2. Montoya, Youngs, Clare, Kerr
3. Cole, Heyes, Hurd
4. ?, Wells, Chessum
5. Green, Henderson
6. Liebenburg, Martin
7. Van Staden (rumoured), Reffell, Wallace
8. Weise, Brink, Smith
9. Youngs, Wigglesworth, JVP, White
10. Ford, Henry, McPhillips
11. Nadolo, Owolfela
12. Scott, Porter
13. Moroni, Taute, Kelly
14. Van Wyk, Potter
15. Steward, Murimurivalu

Not sure on the future of SAP, Worth or some of the lesser featured development players. Coghlan, Dimen and Lewis may all be retained as they'd be cheap and fleshes out the prop and backrow options further. I assume Bonilla is going which might open the door for another flyhalf signing particularly a development one as I believe the next academy can of rank in that department is Woodward who still has another year at that level. I suppose that might mean we retain Worth for another year as he covers virtually the entire backline but if someone like Barton, Finn Smith or Orlando Bailey were to be looking around I'd expect us to be interested.

As long as we don't lose any of those listed and we bring in the two rumours there's more coming out the development squad. Maybe one more senior lock of quality, ideally someone in their 30s who could be a mentor (Kruis would be perfect but unlikely) but ultimately not hold the position from the grasp of the development players for to long. 

There certainly shouldn't be the mass of incomings we've seen previously though I'd be all in favour of fishing for age grade internationals like we did last summer with Henderson and Kelly. Low risk and potentially high reward players.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by lostinwales Wed 03 Mar 2021, 12:33 pm

Worth off on loan to Melbourne Rebels
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56264649

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11190
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 03 Mar 2021, 12:59 pm

lostinwales wrote:Worth off on loan to Melbourne Rebels
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56264649
Lucky blighter. I'd give many things to be living in Melbourne right now.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by lostinwales Wed 03 Mar 2021, 1:32 pm

king_carlos wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Worth off on loan to Melbourne Rebels
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/56264649
Lucky blighter. I'd give many things to be living in Melbourne right now.

Yes. I have a ton of relatives (including one who was a top chef) and an old contact around that area. I did try and wing a 3 month placement out there at CSIRO but it never came off.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11190
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 03 Mar 2021, 1:52 pm

Yes my wife has family in both Perth and Sydney and I have repeatedly volunteered to provide assistance with any group expansion plans my employer has over in Aus but sadly nothing yet. I'd have very much likes an excuse to spend much of the last year over there.

Worth and Owolfela must be dancing with glee at their loan moves.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 03 Mar 2021, 1:59 pm

I know a lot of chefs who worked out in Melbourne for 2 years. It's got a fantastic reputation as a city to live in. A lot of Aussie chefs come the other way to Edinburgh it must be said. Lots of crossover in that regard!

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 03 Mar 2021, 3:58 pm

king_carlos wrote:I know a lot of chefs who worked out in Melbourne for 2 years. It's got a fantastic reputation as a city to live in. A lot of Aussie chefs come the other way to Edinburgh it must be said. Lots of crossover in that regard!

And crucially you can actually go to a restaurant out there.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

king_carlos and lostinwales like this post

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 11 Mar 2021, 7:19 pm

Tom Hardwick released with immediate effect. Three line send off merely stating he's no longer a player at the club and the number of matches he played. A pretty brutal send off. No thanks and no wishing of luck for the future. His younger brother was sacked and deservedly so a year or so back when part of the academy. Tom I thought had more sense but it appears not. There's been a few negative rumours concerning him and his conduct but he's a talented boy and I hoped Borthwick would straighten him out.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 11 Mar 2021, 7:43 pm

I'd guess that Hardwick might be imminently announced by Bristol. They are in a bit of an injury crisis at 10 and were linked to him previously.

A shame but not a surprise now. He looked a big talent at one point so I hope he can kick on wherever he ends up. Tigers have brought through and subsequently lost a lot of talent at 10 over the last few years.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 11 Mar 2021, 8:57 pm

We have, you aren't wrong there Carlos. Umaga accepted first team wages straight out of the academy rather than Tigers development contract so went to Wasps. Costelow got talked into going to Wales prematurely. Ford got offered the 10 shirt by his dad. Owen Williams (ok we nicked him from Scarlets but did bring him on) took a mahoosive contract with Gloucester. Now Hardwick has left under a cloud.

Not sure he'd fit with how Bristol play as a flyhalf but as a secondary playmaker at 12 like he was for England under 20s then he could be very good.

Isn't it the kid Woodward who's the next cab off the rank though he's very much academy so not expecting him to appear for a while. Really we could do with stealing a development level player off of someone else.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 11 Mar 2021, 10:03 pm

Hardwick's first contract out of the dev squad took a bit of negotiating if I remember correctly as he ended up on a pretty decent contract for that age. At that point he was looking extremely promising and was already a top goal kicker which helps a players worth. Hopefully there's some cap to sign a decent 10. Tom Curtis is stuck behind a few players at Sale. I always rated former Falcon Craig Willis who is playing well with Ealing. Theo Brophy Clews is out of contract and could be an interesting option filling the exact spot Hardwick could have done as a 10/12 with a good kicking game.

I'm still far from convinced of McPhillips as a 3rd choice 10 when Ford will miss a lot of games. He has been a lot better the last two weeks than previously but I just don't see him having the game management and tactical kicking to start Premiership games there. If Henry got crocked at the start of the Six Nations for instance we'd be staring at 8 weeks of McPhillips starting with little competition. He's a talented player in some aspects but as long as Ford is an international we need a lot of depth there.

I can only presume that Bonilla not featuring much is an issue to do with foreign players rules. He hasn't shown his class when he's played though to be honest.

There's rumours that this years academy leavers have already got contracts for the development squad. Seb Smith (LH), Tim Hoyt (TH), Lewis Chessum (lock), Jake Sterland (wing) and Jed Gelderbloom (scrum-half) have really good shots IMO. Phillipe Tandoh has missed out unluckily judging by his Instagram, he's a good player but there's a lot of back row talent already in the dev squad. Jacob Cuisick and Cornac Calnan are two of the more talented centres to come through the academy for a few years. Calnan has recently put a highlights reel on YouTube which is often a sign of a player searching for a contract, if he hasn't got a dev squad contract I'd guess Cuisick might have. Pheonix Laulu-Togagae and Saimone Tobeyaweni joined the academy for their final year so might have been earmarked for dev squad opportunities as well, due to covid I've seen nothing of either though. Henry Joule didn't start a game last year but was bright from the bench a couple of times. Similar for Joe Plunkett as Archie Vanes backup last season. Callum Oakden had some good games at lock as well but there is strength in the dev squad there already and I really rate the younger Chessum brother.

Jordan Tebbatt was in the England U20 training camp recently as well. He didn't get a contract after leaving the academy (Ilione and Kit Smith was some competition even with Muncaster heading north) but if he keeps progressing hopefully the club have tabs on him similar to Henderson, Manz and Chessum the moderately older.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 12 Mar 2021, 7:18 am

Didn't Tebbatt have a scholarship to go and play in the States for a bit? If he develops well over there I wouldn't be surprised to see him back.

I've not seen any of the academy lads in person only some highlights and what reports have come up. It sounds like the front row is fairly flush with talent again. Is Harry Joule a member of a certain fashion based family who provide clothing to Tigers? If he is there might be a better chance of him getting a shot in the development team. We could very much do with a centre and a flyhalf making it out the academy this season.

Tom Curtis would be a good acquisition, Fin Smith if we could convince him that being sat behind two fairly young flyhalfs that will never get a call up would also be a good player to bring in, he doesn't seem to be getting chances at Wuss. I have similar views on McPhillips, he's a thoroughly average option who doesn't have the attacking game to be anymore than injury cover at Prem level. His kicking game off the tee and kicking for touch is good which always helps. Ideally we want a development player to come in and surpass McPhillips pretty quickly.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue 04 May 2021, 8:50 am

So are the Glazers selling up at United and buying in to Tigers now?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24108
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 04 May 2021, 9:59 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:So are the Glazers selling up at United and buying in to Tigers now?

mad  boxing

Not funny GF.

In all seriousness our current owners took the club back off the market because they couldn't find anyone with the right future plans for the club. I suspect they were trying to get the Thai owners of Leicester City to make a bid. The two blokes who own 60ish% of the club (rest owned by the fans) want to have their cake and eat it. They want their money out but as Tigers fans want the club in the hands of people that will run it in a sustainable way as custodians which is going to be unlikely I think.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Sat 08 May 2021, 4:27 pm

I saw the game live last night but slightly out the corner of one eye due to Zoom conference that might have been muted...

I just watched it through again, skipping breaks in play etc (amazing how quick a game is doing that!) and must say my overriding feeling is that Freddie Burns is a good signing. Henry and McPhillips have had good performances this season but their inconsistency and weaknesses make them third choices rather than second choice in my opinion.

My only concern with Ford and Burns taking most the minutes is the lack of a younger option as a long term heir having lost Costelow.

Other takeaways from the match were mainly things we already know I think:

- Liebenberg has been colossal all season
- Heyes is growing into a very fine tighthead
- Kelly is a massive talent
- Murimurivalu is cracking signing and should start in the first choice back three
- Moroni could have an impact on par with Anthony Allen
- Fitness is incomparable to recent seasons

On the downside would be the lack of composure and unforced errors in attack. In defence whilst we are massively improved under Borthwick we are still slow to reorganise after a half break I often think. It feels like if the opposition can get one carry over the gainline that it will lead to another and another all too easily. If the early defensive phases push the opposition back we are fine but if they don't it looks ragged. Contrasting that with how Sale reorganised with 13 men on the field is stark.

I'd really like to see Liebenberg, Martin and Reffell start a game together as I feel they are vocal defenders that really lead the line speed. It would be interesting to see how they combined.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 24 May 2021, 3:30 pm

Chris Egerton suggesting we've signed a centre. If so I'd hope it's a strong ball carrier. Our centres are a big improvement on recent years when very reliant on Manu. Moroni is a terrific player, Kelly a big talent and Scott very rounded. Whilst all three have good core skills and are strong defensively none are particularly strong carriers though so a tactical difference in the midfield would be helpful.

Our crash ball running used to be so reliant on Manu being available that just having Wiese, Liebenberg, Nadolo and Murimurivalu to call on has felt like a big improvement. Montpellier showed that a limited number of hard carriers can be easily targeted though. Sides do seem to be adapting to how important Wiese getting over the gain line is to us by doubling up on him. No criticism of Wiese as he's been largely excellent but another big unit in the backs wouldn't go amiss with the very blunt game plan we are currently employing ball in hand.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 24 May 2021, 3:47 pm

What do you make of Nadolo who you'd imagine is a guy who should be doing that? Looking in from the outside I'm pretty surprised he's still there.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 23796
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 24 May 2021, 4:05 pm

Nadolo has been good but had some hamstring injury issues. It's meant he's lacked a little pace and he struggles to do much more than 55 minutes. He really was holding on in the final second half. I think a full pre season with the Walters will see him back being a destructive menace again he's got four tries in 8 games this season so he can still do the business.

Agree with Carlos we need something different in midfield as our current options are all quite similar. Taute's long term injury has stretched us a bit. I'm not sure Taute will be playing next season so makes sense to bring someone else in.

A pre season where the squad isn't being massively overhauled and all the players are there to actually train with each other would be biggest difference. Youngs and Ford had barely met most of the backline until after the 6N. Of the backs including the bench that started final the only players not to arrive last summer were the three academy grads Youngs, Ford and Steward. Going to take time to get everyone on the same page. If we actually have an attack coach as well that would help.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 24 May 2021, 4:41 pm

Nadolo's been quality I think. Particularly when factoring in how limited the attacking game plan is and how few carriers there usually are around him meaning that the opposition can easily target him. Given he's rumoured to have not signed for a massive contract either I think he's offered plenty of value. Our back three play certainly looks more composed when he's available. He's got so much experience across pretty much every Professional league in rugby now.

I just hope the game plan adapts to use players like him better. He can still devastating with the ball in space on the wing but the tactics largely see him used for kick chase or standing directly behind a scrum or maul to take a crash ball. He's solid at both those things but neither are his strength. If we can start moving the ball more and manufacture one on one's for him out wide then Nadolo will still break a tackle or get an offload away more often than not when given a tiny bit of breathing space.

There has been a lot of improvement in key areas under Borthwick, I'm feeling more and more optimistic but the attack is still frankly dire still. The period between 60 and 70 minutes in the final when we had lots of ball between halfway and our 10 metre line but just booted it away again and again summed our tactics up well. Montpellier were largely winning the kicking battle by that stage with a very strong back three, Reinach and Pollard but we just kept at it anyway because currently that's all the attack has got in those areas. It's painstaking percentage rugby, which is an improvement from the relegation fodder Borths inherited but won't take us any further than the mid-table side we now are.

There's an argument that the kicking could have worked if Murimurivalu didn't try to compete in the air with N'Gandebe before his fabulous break, instead waited for him to catch the well weighted kick just outside the 22 and then smashed him back into his 22 to build pressure. Small margins and all that. At the end of the day the kicking didn't work though and Tigers had nothing else to turn to whilst Montpellier scored that fantastic try through Bouthier and Goosen to take the trophy.

The defence, set-piece and fitness have improved beyond sight since Borthwick and Walters joined. Now they need an attack coach to facilitate a similar overturning of the back play.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Tue 25 May 2021, 9:08 am

We saw hints of the back play improving Vs Quins. It is as you say though, quite narrow. Montpellier took delight in narrowing up in defence with the winger cutting off the outside. The way the Montpellier forwards worked into the 9/10 channel meant that 10/12 could double up a lot of the time and really cut down playing off Ford's shoulder which is where we did all the damage Vs Quins. 

I agree Vs Nadolo, yes the inside pop does work but that's not where we want him all the time. As you say Carlos, got to get him in those one on ones. Ideally with players supporting him for offloads as well as Steward seems about the only one who ever makes it close enough and even then not regularly. 

I think we are primed for an attack coach to come in and take the keys to a car that rarely gets into third gear. We get plenty of ball in the opposition 22 we just need the familiarity between the players and the structure to go to town. We haven't appointed one so far which makes me think we've been waiting for one to come available. Losing Rob Taylor after such a short spell probably did nothing to help us.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 03 Jun 2021, 5:54 pm

Henri Lavin has a highlights package up so presumably looking for a club. Injury means he's just missed a lot of rugby and development at a key time. He looked really good at U18. I hope he bounces back to the Premiership in a few years time even if he has to drop down to Championship or Div 1 to get game time in the short term.

1.Genge, FvW, Leatigaga, Whitcombe
2.Montoya, Youngs, Clare, Dolly
3.Cole, Heyes, Hurd
4.Wells, Snyman, Chessum
5.Green, Henderson
6.Liebenberg, Martin
7.Reffell, MvS
8.Wiese, Brink, Smith

9.Youngs, JvP, Wigglesworth
10.Ford, Burns

11.Nadolo, Murimurivalu, Browning
12.Kelly, Scott
13.Moroni, Porter
14.KvW, Potter
15.Steward

It sounds like those are the confirmed players for next season. Below are guys I'm uncertain about:

Bower
Lewis
Coghlan
White
Henry
McPhillips
Taute
Aspland-Robinson
Simmons
Worth

From those I really hope that Simmons and one of Henry or McPhillips stay.

White and Lewis I rate but could completely understand if they want to look elsewhere for more game time.

Taute may well be in contract having re-signed in June during the renegotiated contracts. Good player as 12 these days but injuries have plagued him for a few years now sadly.

With Bower, Coghlan, SAR and Worth I just don't see where they get game time with Tigers outside of A-league and PRC. I'd be hoping that Browning would get game time ahead of both SAR and Worth now.

To me the main recruitment needs:

A lock or blindside - I'm hoping for a really strong signing here with the second marquee for next season potentially open

A strong carrying centre - Moroni, Kelly and Scott are a really solid trio but we could do with a ball carrier in midfield

A prop - We could re-sign Bower (injured currently I believe) and use Leatigaga at TH but personally I'd prefer a stronger signing than Bower who's scrummaging has never really held up at Premiership level

There should be far less churn than recent years which will help Borthwick a lot.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 03 Jun 2021, 8:09 pm

Owolfela us due to return this summer in time for pre season so I'd expect him to be involved next season. Rowntree Jnr played loosehead at the weekend but I don't know whether he's switching sides to follow his old man or whether he's playing both. Playing both is harder but would make him a very useful squad man.

I'd hope we are scouring the Championship for a good tighthead. There's some to be found in there so acquiring one isn't too big a problem though with Saints signing Heffernan, Sarries Clarey and Wuss Tyack the numbers are dwindling. I don't think we need a big name there. It's really only injury cover so a punt is fine.

The lock/6 we could do with someone big, mobile and generally horrible. Like Wells but with another level to his play. Jacques du Plessis would be the ideal one, he was fantastic off the bench for Montpellier in the final, he stopped our bug runners and defused our rolling maul. Prime age and would fit perfectly with our game plan. Persistent rumours he's leaving Montpellier with the Bus wanting him to come home, I hope we get in there first.

Centre I'm a little less concerned about. If we can get our hands on a quality operator then great but if not then I'm not worried. Nadolo's cousin Kuridrani is out of contract at the Force this summer. Wouldn't mind us taking a punt on him if Nems backs it as an idea. Would have to be the right price I don't see the need to spend big on the backs. 

I would also be surprised if McPhillips and Henry are out of contract as I think both signed deals last summer and are unlikely to have only signed one year deals. They are both likely to be cheap as well.

I do wonder if we'll try and offload Kobus Van Wyk this summer. Borthwick does appear that happy with him despite giving him chances tends to go towards Potter or Porter as a preference. Porter is a handy utility back so that's pretty damning to drop your well known finisher for a utility back. Potter on the other hand looks to be a great player if he can keep him fit, fits the game plan and goes looking for work and to make things happen. Never likely to be an international but the kind of squad man you need.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 03 Jun 2021, 9:41 pm

I meant to list Olowofela in the squad and forgot actually. I'm pretty sure Borthwick commented on him returning over the summer.

Jacques du Plessis is a brilliant player but signed to the Bulls. Pretty sure he's already listed in their squad but wasn't joining until Montplellier's season finished. So presumably will be with the Bulls imminently pending quarantine etc. He's an incredible player that I reckon will be involved with SA for the Lions tour given the lock injuries SA have.

Kobus has been poor but has showed enough previously that I'd be happy for him to get given time to improve. Some players start great then fall off. Betham and Fitzgerald were great in their first seasons then struggled to make similar impacts. Others start slowly and grow. Gigena springs to mind there. Bateman was as much use as a chocolate frying pan as a hooker. You don't shine like van Wyk did for the Canes unless there's some quality there. If he wanted to move and it made room for a quality player fair enough but I'd prefer as little churn as possible after recent seasons.

McPhillips and Henry strike me as players that may well be one year contracts actually. McPhillips is in his last year as an academy players so comes under the senior ceiling for the salary cap from next season. Henry came with a good rep from Pro D2 but had never played above that level before so was a bit of a punt. I don't think either's good enough to be a second choice Premiership fly-half but neither will want to be fourth choice either so could see one or the other potentially moving on.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 03 Jun 2021, 10:15 pm

I don't think you'd bring Henry over from France on a one year deal, he's always going to be a work in progress. I think he's shown flashes of promise. In a properly working offence then I think he could do a decent job at the minute our attack is pretty clunky and his lack of experience at this level is showing. Similar with McPhillips. As Henry can also cover 15 and we expect Ford and potentially Steward to get call ups I'd have thought we'd keep them just in case of injury as there's no development flyhalf currently.

I thought du Plessis was only a rumour to the Bulls. If we've missed him that's a shame but that's the type of player we should be looking for if we are spending a decent bit of cash. South Africa do have a tendency to produce this kind of player and we seem to be scouting down there quite well at the minute.

Kobus might well be given pre season to come good but I wouldn't rule out an early release of he doesn't. He's been a liability so far.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 03 Jun 2021, 10:28 pm

https://bullsrugby.co.za/profile/jacques-du-plessis/

Jacques du Plessis is already listed in the Bulls squad for this season, just no profile picture as he's presumably yet to arrive.

If Henry wanted a chance in the Premiership and others weren't offering there's no reason he wouldn't take a 1 year deal. Low risk for Tigers and a shop window for him. I think he's got some good skills but just not sure the game management is there to be more than a third choice 10 at Tigers. The same's true at every other Premiership club I think. Even a club with less 10 depth such as Gloucester I think I'd pick Twelvetrees as a fly-half or young George Garton ahead of Henry as well as Lloyd Evans. At Worcester next season he'd probably even be joint 4th choice with Shillcock behind Williams, Smith and Searle. I don't think he'd be a bad squad player behind Ford and Burns but at 26-years-old I just don't see him suddenly improving beyond that.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 04 Jun 2021, 7:33 am

I'd be more willing to give Henry another season to see if he steps up in a more organised attack than I am van Wyk. Henry played at a lower level previously and has shown some good skills and some nativity. I think his skill set probably allowed him to get out of trouble in Pro D2 instead of having to work on his game management. If we let him go I could see him going to somewhere like Quins as third choice and being a useful squad player for them. I don't think he'll ever be first choice in this league (unless he goes to Falcons) but he could be a useful squad man.

If we are releasing one or both then I hope we've either got a young flyhalf poached from somewhere else. Ideally another age grade player who's not getting the game time at his club or our academy flyhalf can step up but I've not heard of any huge talent in the academy.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by doctor_grey Fri 04 Jun 2021, 10:40 am

I thought Henry was pretty useful for Tigers this season. Played an OK 10, I thought, especially for his first season in the Premiership. Filled in OK at 15 as well. I would certainly give him another season to see how things go.

doctor_grey

Posts : 9566
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Mon 07 Jun 2021, 8:27 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D09k_FvrXmU&ab_channel=GeraintDaviesRugbyCoaching%26Analysis

Around 8 minutes in that video, after the game has finished I'm pretty sure that's Tom Youngs on the ref mic.

Regardless of what went before I'd be pretty surprised if he escapes a ban for that.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 07 Jun 2021, 9:04 pm

He's going to be in trouble no doubt about it. Can't be dropping f bombs when directing comments towards the ref no matter how frustrated you are. Given his collection of priors it won't be a short ban either.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 09 Jun 2021, 11:01 am

Taute confirmed as still being at Tigers next season.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 09 Jun 2021, 8:27 pm

king_carlos wrote:Taute confirmed as still being at Tigers next season.

Likely to be the senior leader for the backs in the A league and Prem Cup I'd have thought.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 09 Jun 2021, 9:29 pm

https://www.leicestertigers.com/news/zackhenry-departs-leicester-tigers

Zach Henry and Tigers agree early release to allow him to join Pau ahead of next season.

Short term I hope that means Ford will play the final game as Henry leaving early would leave McPhillips as the only 10 if Ford is injured.

Long term it's shame that Henry didn't work out at Tigers. He has some really good skills, his passing at times has been excellent but just lacks the game management to be a second choice Premiership 10 in my opinion. I was happy Burns signed for that reason.

McPhillips form has been much better in recent weeks as well. I'd be very happy with Ford, Burns and McPhillips as fly-half options heading into next season.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed 09 Jun 2021, 10:04 pm

Shame to see him go he's got something about him. He's fallen down the pecking order and wants game time. Pau will be a good solution for him.

I'd imagine Bonilla will be off as well as he's barely played. When he did play he wasn't great.

It leaves us short a little both in terms of fullback and flyhalf. Murimurivalu can drop in to cover Steward at 15. I suppose the easy fix would be to bring Worth back but I don't see why he would when he can stay in Australia and play regularly. I hope we have a more imaginative solution like a talented kid coming in who Ford can mentor over the next couple of years.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Wed 09 Jun 2021, 11:23 pm

For me Burns is a better fly-half and fullback than Henry so I think we're covered.

I think Simmons best position could be 15 as well.

If Worth has the option to stay in Melbourne he might but far from certain he would get the option if Tigers weren't paying his wages. I got the feeling that the Australian franchises took loan players largely due to their dire financial situations. Tigers naturally wouldn't pay for Worth to be a Rebels player long term and the Rebels would presumably be able to find a development player in the Shute Shield that would cost less than Worth.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 10 Jun 2021, 1:09 pm

Don't know what Worth's contract situation is but he's apparently Aussie qualified. He's ended up the starting 15 down there so who knows quite frankly. The number of Australian teams has ended up increasing and I think the AU Super Rugby competition has actually been good for the game there in terms of revenue. Certainly seems to be more bums on seats in the crowd.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by GeordieFalcon Thu 17 Jun 2021, 11:41 am

So Sinfield is confirmed as your defence coach eh...

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 24108
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 17 Jun 2021, 12:10 pm

New deals for Tom Harrison and Matt Smith as well who are talented you coaches.

GeordieFalcon wrote:So Sinfield is confirmed as your defence coach eh...

I'm delighted for Sinfield to join just surprised it's as defence coach given the defence has actually been much improved this year. For a long time many felt the issue at Tigers was looking backwards too much with jobs for former players, promoting from within, bringing back O'Connor. Borthwick, Aled Walters and Sinfield is the opposite of that for sure.

Mike Ford confirmed as leaving as well. It will be interesting to see if he joins the Dallas Griffins as he was meant to years ago before they had issues.

We still need an attack coach more than anything else.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Thu 17 Jun 2021, 4:09 pm

With the confirmed departures we now have a more complete picture of the squad for next season and what might be incoming.

I was disappointed but unsurprised to see Sam Lewis go. I hope he drops down a league and fights back up similar to Harry Wells. Henri Lavin is another very talented back row that shone at U18 but has just had too many injuries at a key time for development. He could definitely come back into the Premiership.

Perhaps the most surprising departure of the lot was Kit Smith after only 1 year in the dev squad. He looks a real talent and has been involved with the England U20 games recently. I'll be interested to see whether he's picked up elsewhere or is focusing on interests outside rugby as Ed Milne did a few years ago.

It was a bit surprising that all of Olowofela, Worth and SAR are retained. Olowofela in particular I'm really happy to keep though.

From the development squad I'd expect Law and Edwards to cover the 4th choice SH berth and Joe Browning to start pushing for game time next season.

A really strong signing at second row/blindside, a ball carrying centre and a young 10 with lots of potential are the most pressing areas for recruitment.

Ideally I'd hope for another prop as well but with Whitcombe showing up well it might be feasible to use injury dispensation if issues arise. Whitcombe is after all only a couple of months younger than Bevan Rodd who's been outstanding for Sale this season.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 17 Jun 2021, 5:41 pm

Hmm I'd have hoped to keep Ford as defence coach and then have Sinfield as attack and skills coach. That would have made more sense given Sinfield was known as being the general on the field for Leeds in his playing days. Defence coach seems an odd move for him though he's a good character to have in the side and he might end up doubling up as we've not announced an attack coach yet.

Sounds like Ford is off somewhere new for next season so I imagine his salary wasn't that great at Tigers and someone else has offered a bigger role and better pay. Shame to lose him but understand if he's had a better offer.

Agree on the young backrows. Lavin I really liked but he's not been fit to play in some time such was the nature of his injury. Had luck for the lad as I thought he had some of the Guy Thompson about him. Lewis wasn't physical enough for a Borthwick 6 though I can imagine there's a team or two that might take a punt on him. LI or Glaws for starters. Kit Smith was a surprise, there must have been something go on there as you say KC he was year 1 development.

Recruitment I'm expecting a big and nasty 6/lock to come in along with a couple of flyhalfs, at least one of which will be a age grade style development option. Looking at England under 20s if probably guess Dan Lancaster of Leeds/Yorkshire or Tommy Matthews who has apparently not been retained by Saints. Another prop is likely though a squad level tighthead is what I'd expect.

1. Genge, van Wyk, Whitcombe
3. Cole, Heyes, Hurd
Both. Leatigaga

Looks one short otherwise an injury over an international period could be quite tricky particularly if Heyes ends up as third choice for England and one of Stuart or Sinckler are unavailable. Say Cole gets injured then it could be down to;

1. Van Wyk, Whitcombe on the bench
3. Leatigaga and Hurd on the bench

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 18 Jun 2021, 12:52 pm

From the RFU website:
1. The Player pleaded guilty to the offence of Conduct Prejudicial to The Interests Of The Union And The Game, Contrary To RFU Rule 5.12.
2. The Panel determined that the Player should be suspended from playing for a period of 2 weeks with one week suspended for one season.
3. The Player had already had a Club imposed one-game suspension on the 12th June 2021. The second game of the suspension will bes suspended until the end of season 2021/22.
4. By the 28th February 2022, the Player is required to complete the RFU’s England Rugby Referee award course and then subsequently referee two age grade games.
5. In the event of these requirements not being completed, or if the Player reoffends(on or off the pitch), then the suspended element of this sanctionwill be activated.

Statement by Ian Tempest.
"I would like to place on record that whilst I don’t condone the actions of
Tom Youngs it was an unusual and highly emotional ending to the match
for both teams, considering the way that the last 10 minutes of the match
was played out. During the conversation that took place on the field
immediately at the end of the match with Tom Youngs, I never once felt
threatened or intimidated by his actions
Tom Youngs has apologised and I didn’t expect the matter to be taken
any further or I would have reported it to the RFU discipline department."

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 16423
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 34
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by king_carlos Fri 18 Jun 2021, 1:25 pm

Interesting that they are making Tom take a refereeing course. I love that being part of the sanction to be honest!

I could understand his frustration but venting at the ref directly after the final whistle was always going to cop a ban of some sort. Just a pretty dumb thing to do all round. Whilst OTYs form has been better last season and this season he's far from diplomatic with refs at the best of times anyway.

I still think Liebenberg would make a terrific on field skipper moving forward. He's a guaranteed starter when fit as well. The sort of non EQP signing who's performances are so consistently good that Tigers could build a pack around him as Sale did with Jono Ross and Sarries with Jacques Burger.

king_carlos

Posts : 7947
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by lostinwales Fri 18 Jun 2021, 1:29 pm

The referee course thing is brilliant. It is a surprisingly creative sanction

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 11190
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

king_carlos and formerly known as Sam like this post

Back to top Go down

Leicester Tigers 2020-21 - Page 2 Empty Re: Leicester Tigers 2020-21

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum