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Lions Announcement - Round 2

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 06 May 2021, 1:01 pm

Forwards: Tadhg Beirne, Jack Conan, Luke Cowan Dickie, Tom Curry, Zander Fagerson, Taulupe Faletau, Tadhg Furlong, Jamie George, Iain Henderson, Jonny Hill, Maro Itoje, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Courtney Lawes, Ken Owens, Andrew Porter, Sam Simmonds, Rory Sutherland, Justin Tipuric, Mako Vunipola, Hamish Watson.

Backs: Josh Adams, Bundee Aki, Dan Biggar, Elliot Daly, Gareth Davies, Owen Farrell, Chris Harris, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart Hogg, Conor Murray, Ali Price, Louis Rees-Zammit, Finn Russell, Duhan van der Merwe, Anthony Watson, Liam Williams.

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Lions Announcement - Round 2  Lions_11

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Post by bsando Thu 06 May 2021, 1:04 pm

Time to get behind the squad and cheer all of these players on. Looking at that Lions squad above you can't help but get excited about the rugby that is going to be played.

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Post by Rugby Fan Thu 06 May 2021, 1:12 pm

I'm pleased there are big surprises. The pre-announcement selections were beginning to converge, so it would have been a bit dull if they had turned out to be right.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 06 May 2021, 1:20 pm

Some, well at least one will be upset at May not being in. His form wasn't great in the 6N I suppose, in a competitive position. Then again, the 6N form of Daly and Farrell wasn't great either, so it's difficult to understand some selections.

Surprised at Conan over Stander, as I thought the latter was still available? I rate Conan but I expect he'll just be a midweek player unless he does something special. Does he play at 6 at all?

Ali Price was unexpected, but the 9's haven't been great. It looks as if Murray will be first choice though, with probably Biggar outside him, Russell on the bench. If Faz features it will be at 12, and I imagine it's so Russell doesn't do anything stupid.

Jones/Sutherland - Owens/LCD - Furlong/Sinckler - AWJ - Itoje - Beirne - Watson - Faletau (my attempt at the pack).

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 1:21 pm

I am very excited by this squad, at last an equal representation across all 4 nations. Some surprises as well, Bundi Aki is in because of George North's injury.

I cannot wait for this to start. I will be fully behind this team, and at least now the Scottish fans have a little more to cheer about, so hopefully they will be behind them as well.

I predict a 3-0 win for the Lions.

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Post by No9 Thu 06 May 2021, 1:22 pm

bsando wrote:Time to get behind the squad and cheer all of these players on. Looking at that Lions squad above you can't help but get excited about the rugby that is going to be played.

Well said.. thumbsup

The Lions is a tradition and long may it continue. The only successful Lions tours is when they tour and play as Lions, not England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, but Lions...

There are some surprises in the selections, but this is the squad, and from today, every one of those players have the same opportunity as the others to get a Lions shirt. So good luck to them, and lets get behind the lucky ones that win those test places...

Here's to a successful Lions Series guinness Yahoo

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Post by chris_501 Thu 06 May 2021, 1:24 pm

Daly and Mako don't have any place in that squad, Gats has seemingly ignored what happened in the 6N with the Sarries players (George and Farrell only there as no real alternatives)

I am surprised at Hill, Price and Conan as I really felt there were much stronger alternatives in Ryan/Gray, Tomas Williams and Navidi.

It's Navidi who I feel is the most likely to be missed. If Beirne is injured or required to play at 2nd row, Navidi would be the next strongest 6 by quite a margin to come in in my opinion.

I'm pleased to see Harris is in, a defensive rock if paired with Henshaw in midfield could see a few superstars outside him flourish.

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Post by R!skysports Thu 06 May 2021, 1:33 pm

Altogether I think a fair and balanced squad, with a couple of head scratchers to keep us talking.

Think Bundee, Hill, Mako, Daly and Price lucky to be there

AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests? Who knows. He had a good 6 nations and deserves his chance, so lets hope he stays fit and continues

Go Lions

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 1:37 pm

The plus point is that South Africa should be more under baked than the lions for once. Struggling to see where the wins come from though. Perhaps a 2 1 if we're lucky.

Bonus if Gatland can rebuild the lions to something under Geech though.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Thu 06 May 2021, 1:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Some, well at least one will be upset at May not being in. His form wasn't great in the 6N I suppose, in a competitive position. Then again, the 6N form of Daly and Farrell wasn't great either, so it's difficult to understand some selections.

Surprised at Conan over Stander, as I thought the latter was still available? I rate Conan but I expect he'll just be a midweek player unless he does something special. Does he play at 6 at all?

Ali Price was unexpected, but the 9's haven't been great. It looks as if Murray will be first choice though, with probably Biggar outside him, Russell on the bench. If Faz features it will be at 12, and I imagine it's so Russell doesn't do anything stupid.

Jones/Sutherland - Owens/LCD - Furlong/Sinckler - AWJ - Itoje - Beirne - Watson - Faletau (my attempt at the pack).

Sinckler may be difficult as he is not in the squad.

Simmons is there as by comparison to his opposite number, he is probably under powered standing still, but first they have to catch him and second the speed he has makes him just as powerful in the collision as someone 2 stone heavier.

Glad to see Lawes there, he is made for those hard pitches and will bring a lot to the defense just outside the fringes which SA like to attack. He is a lot quicker than he looks, shades of a heavier Tom Croft would be good to see. A lot of people on here do not see what he brings to the side, but every England coach has consistently picked and played him and Gatland picked him and played him for the last tour.

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Post by dummy_half Thu 06 May 2021, 1:40 pm

A few rather lucky to make it and a few surprises. Would have expected about 3 or 4 other second rows before Hill.
Daly I assume is in because of his versatility, in covering the entire back 4 to an adequate standard. For me, without 'dirt track' games between the tests I can't see him having a starting role ahead of any of the specialists.
Aki's probably the other big surprise, but perhaps shows that the cupboard is a bit bare of powerful centres in the continued absence of Manu and the injury to North.

Interesting from a tactical perspective of who plays at 6 - there are several hybrid 2nd row/6s in the squad, but also Curry has played there a fair bit for England (when partnering Underhill). Could pick a (relatively) small and fast back row of Curry-Watson-Simmonds, which would be an interesting contrast to the South African side, or could try and match up by going something like Beirnie-Curry-Falatau.

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 06 May 2021, 1:40 pm

Certainly an interesting squad, and in my view an exciting one.

It's nice to see even(-ish) representation of all four nations.

In the forwards, the surprises are probably Jonny Hill's inclusion, the number 8 options (other than Faletau), and the Sinckler/Mako inclusion/exclusion. Hill didn't show much in the 6N (I'm sure England fans would agree on that in the main), but obviously Gatland saw something he liked. Scottish locks perhaps unlucky to get injured halfway through the tournament, and Ryan can count himself unlucky (although he wasn't all that great either...). On the 8 options, it's worth saying that Gatland has never really played with a lump at 8, partly due to the excellence of Faletau of course. Maybe he fancies Simmonds as a Tom Croft sort of selection: extra athleticism and feels he could thrive on the hard SA pitches? Sinckler is unlucky to miss out, but the 3 options chosen are excellent, while Mako is perhaps lucky to be in ahead of Healy IMO, but not much in it.

In the backs, the centre options are perhaps the talking point, along with Daly/May(/Earls) on the wing. Not many out-and-out centres in the squad full stop, so presumably Gatland is looking as Farrell as a 12 option, and maybe Daly at 13? As a Scotland fan, Price is perhaps lucky to be there, but with Youngs out the options aren't that great, and he's solid enough.

Will be interesting to see how the team shapes up.

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Post by BamBam Thu 06 May 2021, 1:44 pm

Jones - LCD - Furlong
Itoje - Jones
Beirne - Faletau - Curry

Murray - Biggar
Henshaw - Harris
Duhan - Hogg - Watson

Owens, Sutherland, Porter, Henderson, Lawes, Watson, Davies, Williams

My prediction for 1st Test 23

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 06 May 2021, 1:48 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Some, well at least one will be upset at May not being in. His form wasn't great in the 6N I suppose, in a competitive position. Then again, the 6N form of Daly and Farrell wasn't great either, so it's difficult to understand some selections.

Surprised at Conan over Stander, as I thought the latter was still available? I rate Conan but I expect he'll just be a midweek player unless he does something special. Does he play at 6 at all?

Ali Price was unexpected, but the 9's haven't been great. It looks as if Murray will be first choice though, with probably Biggar outside him, Russell on the bench. If Faz features it will be at 12, and I imagine it's so Russell doesn't do anything stupid.

Jones/Sutherland - Owens/LCD - Furlong/Sinckler - AWJ - Itoje - Beirne - Watson - Faletau (my attempt at the pack).

Sinckler may be difficult as he is not in the squad.

Simmons is there as by comparison to his opposite number, he is probably under powered standing still, but first they have to catch him and second the speed he has makes him just as powerful in the collision as someone 2 stone heavier.

Glad to see Lawes there, he is made for those hard pitches and will bring a lot to the defense just outside the fringes which SA like to attack. He is a lot quicker than he looks, shades of a heavier Tom Croft would be good to see. A lot of people on here do not see what he brings to the side, but every England coach has consistently picked and played him and Gatland picked him and played him for the last tour.

Ah my bad, it'll probably be Porter then unless Fagerson does something pretty good during the midweek... and depending on injuries, because Porter apparently also covers LH. Is Lawes a lineout option? He's pretty tall.

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Post by 123456789. Thu 06 May 2021, 1:52 pm

Team of players not going:
15. Keenan 14. Earls 13. Ringrose 12. Slade 11. May 10. Sexton 9. Williams 8. Vunipola 7. Navidi 6. Stander 5. Ryan 4. Gray 3. Sinckler 2. Herring 1. Healy

I'm quite happy with the squad all told, I'd probably have had Davies and Slade over Aki and Harris but I suppose Aki offers power and Harris is defensively solid. I'd have had Sexton but the three fly-halves are very good. I wouldn't have had Price but he's played almost every game for Scotland over two years, and scrum-half wasn't exactly great in terms of depth. If him and Russell are on the bench together, they will add pace when they come on. The forwards are solid but I suppose the second-rows will cause debate. Gray and Ryan are unlucky to miss out but the ones going are good players. Vunipola might be a tad unlucky but he's been off of the boil. The tests are at altitude though and it probably made sense to have a more lightweight 8 available. Of those players Simmonds is the best.

Gutted, as a Scotsman, to miss out my fouryearly breakdown. I just hope Gatland has the decency not to pick any for the tests so I can get at least some sulking done this summer.

Prediction for the 1st Test
1. Jones 2. Owens 3. Furlong
4. Itoje 5. AWJ
6. Curry 8. Faletau 7. Watson

9. Murray 10. Farrell
12. Henshaw 13. Harris
11. LRZ 15. Hogg 14. Watson

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Post by BamBam Thu 06 May 2021, 1:52 pm

Can't recall Lawes ever jumping in the line out

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Post by Mr Bounce Thu 06 May 2021, 1:54 pm

This a good mix of decent players - there will always be some surprising omissions on Lions Squad day, but overall I am pleased with what's been selected.

Sexton I am not surprised about given the amount of recent head knocks he's had - the Provincial Sides would have torn through him like a soggy cardboard box. May I can understand too - he's been way off best this year, and he's a player who thrives on good morale. Hill over Ryan I am not so sure about but hey-ho.

Players I am pleased for are Gareth Davies - think he could well be the surprise of the tournament, LRZ - I reckon he'll love the hard grounds. He's bleeping quick so excellent news for him - hope he gets the chance to prove himself. Andrew Porter - I genuinely believe he's vying with Malherbe as the World's 2nd best Tighthead at present. Sam Simmonds being picked after his constant nods to Uncle Eddie were being ignored is a delightful slap in Eddie's face. And Courtney Lawes back from injury to tour is a good thing - he's a great player to have and shouldn't let anyone down. Plus we couldn't have a better leader.

I feel sorry for Navidi, Sinckler, Ritchie, May, Ryan and Underhill but they were competing in a very congested market of class acts so they were obviously not a first choice pick for Gatland and co. However, all of them could be just one injury away from a phone call.

Here's hoping this squad stays fit. I shall support them one and all! Come on the LIONS! Ale

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 1:57 pm

R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

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Post by jimbopip Thu 06 May 2021, 1:59 pm

123456789. wrote:Team of players not going:
15. Keenan 14. Earls 13. Ringrose 12. Slade 11. May 10. Sexton 9. Williams 8. Vunipola 7. Navidi 6. Stander 5. Ryan 4. Gray 3. Sinckler 2. Herring 1. Healy

I'm quite happy with the squad all told, I'd probably have had Davies and Slade over Aki and Harris but I suppose Aki offers power and Harris is defensively solid. I'd have had Sexton but the three fly-halves are very good. I wouldn't have had Price but he's played almost every game for Scotland over two years, and scrum-half wasn't exactly great in terms of depth. If him and Russell are on the bench together, they will add pace when they come on. The forwards are solid but I suppose the second-rows will cause debate. Gray and Ryan are unlucky to miss out but the ones going are good players. Vunipola might be a tad unlucky but he's been off of the boil. The tests are at altitude though and it probably made sense to have a more lightweight 8 available. Of those players Simmonds is the best.

Gutted, as a Scotsman, to miss out my fouryearly breakdown. I just hope Gatland has the decency not to pick any for the tests so I can get at least some sulking done this summer.

Prediction for the 1st Test
1. Jones 2. Owens 3. Furlong
4. Itoje 5. AWJ
6. Curry 8. Faletau 7. Watson

9. Murray 10. Farrell
12. Henshaw 13. Harris

11. LRZ 15. Hogg 14. Watson

With that midfield you, me and Gats could play in the back three...the ball won't get that far.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 06 May 2021, 2:03 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

It's John Hinckley Jr.

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Post by westisbest Thu 06 May 2021, 2:03 pm

Some interesting and surprising choices and omissions.

From an Irish point of view, shame not to see Ryan, Ringrose and Ealrs not picked.

Though Sexton might have got the nod.

Will be Interesting times ahead.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 2:07 pm

Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 06 May 2021, 2:07 pm

westisbest wrote:Some interesting and surprising choices and omissions.

From an Irish point of view, shame not to see Ryan, Ringrose and Ealrs not picked.

Though Sexton might have got the nod.

Will be Interesting times ahead.

I'm surprised by no Ryan & Ringrose but not so much Earls & Sexton. As soon as I heard Biggar named I knew Sexton wouldn't be in.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 06 May 2021, 2:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

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Post by theslosty Thu 06 May 2021, 2:09 pm

Some genuine surprises which has given us plenty to talk about. You can build a really strong non-selected 23 which says it all.

The odds you would have got on Jack Conan 6 months ago, when he'd been out for a year and probably didn't even feature in Leinster's best 23. But I think he's always been a bit underrated, unlucky not to get more caps for Ireland, and was impressive against England and also vs Simmonds in the Exeter QF.

Kyle Sinckler seemed nailed on to most of us. My first thought is that he might be carrying a knock we don't know about but maybe Gatland's just unsure about his scrummaging. Particularly surprising though when he was happy to take a punt on a more raw version of him in 2017.

I didn't see Ali Price coming but I suppose there was room for a surprise selection at scrum half, I was just hoping as an Ulster fan it would be John Cooney.

No James Ryan which seemed pretty unthinkable 12 months ago. I feel a bit sorry for him and Jonny Gray too as Courtney Lawes is the one selection that doesn't sit well with me. But I think Ryan's recent concussion history has done for him, likewise Sexton.

Bundee Aki is another shock call for me, I can see the logic but thought J Davies was a near certainty. I hadn't predicted Daly or Harris either but can see the thinking there. As for Slade and Ringrose, I thought at least one of them would feature.

I still can't get over Courtney Lawes, would love to hear England/Saints fans' thoughts on his inclusion
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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 06 May 2021, 2:09 pm

Its harsh enough on Ringrose though not sure his form was the best this year.

Lawes doesnt make sense for me either. I think to beat SA you need to out smart them rather than out muscle them. Hope thats what Gatland has in mind, I suspect its not.


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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 06 May 2021, 2:10 pm

Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

107 from 107 in one test is some going.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 2:11 pm

Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

Yes, that stat stood out on the last tour, he is also very quick and athletic for a back row forward, I would not be surprised to see him start all three tests at 7.

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Post by Oakdene Thu 06 May 2021, 2:11 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

107 from 107 in one test is some going.

I don't think I said it was in one test.

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Post by dummy_half Thu 06 May 2021, 2:12 pm

So having a bit of a go at what the first choice 23 might be, assuming everyone in the squad is fit and available for selection for the first test.

Wyn Jones - LCD*-Furlong
AWJ-Itoje
Bierne-Faletau-Watson**

Gareth Davies*** - Dan Biggar
DvdM-Henshaw-Harris-Watson
Hogg

Reps:
Mako-Owens-Porter
Lawes, Curry
Murray, Russell, LRZ

* Hooker it's really any one from the three. All solid, no-one outstanding
** I think Curry is the best bench cover for the whole back row, so start with the specialists. Lawes of course can cover 6 adequately as well (so can Itoje)
*** Murray is probably a safer selection, but I like the front foot play that Davies (or Aldi Price) can give, especially if we have a more conventional 10 rather than Russell.

I've made the selections at least with a mind to how I think Gatland would want to play against SA - probably doesn't want to get entirely bogged down in an arm wrestle, so I'm looking a bit at what we can do in attack (with the likes of van der Merwe) and to have some impact off the bench. Was even tempted to suggest leaving out a 2nd row replacement and go with Curry + Simmonds.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Thu 06 May 2021, 2:12 pm

Some strange selections. The forwards are not very Gatland-esque (3 smaller opensides and a small no.8) whilst the centres are not exactly designed for much finesse in attack.

As much as some of those players can consider themselves fortunate to get into the squad, I assume some of the unlucky players (Stander, Navidi, J Gray/Ryan, Sinckler, Sexton) will have a chance to come in if injuries hit.

As for Scots selections, I think we did overly well in winning the expected 50:50's (or even some of the 40:60s) and yet somehow J Gray did not get in. Can only think Gatland is only going to use them for the easy midweek games....

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Post by Oakdene Thu 06 May 2021, 2:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

Yes, that stat stood out on the last tour, he is also very quick and athletic for a back row forward, I would not be surprised to see him start all three tests at 7.

Agreed, him or Curry for me, Curry offers more over the ball but Tipuric offers more elsewhere.

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 06 May 2021, 2:15 pm

theslosty wrote:
I still can't get over Courtney Lawes, would love to hear England/Saints fans' thoughts on his inclusion

Lawes if fully fit is a no brainer to go, I wouldn't have him starting but if Gatland chooses to go with a 6-2 split on the bench he's a pretty good option for the second row 6 hybrid spot. His lineout work is still top notch and something England missed for most of the six nations.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 2:16 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

Just a question of whether he makes the 60 min mark this time then?

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Post by BigGee Thu 06 May 2021, 2:17 pm

This is going to be a massively attritcious tour. I think anyone in the squad has a chance of playing in at least one of the test matches. last two times in SA it has practicaly been last man standing. It will also be very difficult to bring in replacements.

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Post by Old Man Thu 06 May 2021, 2:18 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The plus point is that South Africa should be more under baked than the lions for once. Struggling to see where the wins come from though. Perhaps a 2 1 if we're lucky.

Bonus if Gatland can rebuild the lions to something under Geech though.

Yes, SA will be a complete unknown, even for their own supporters, there is no form or performnce that can be measured, 18 months without a test match played.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 2:19 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

Just a question of whether he makes the 60 min mark this time then?

Why ?

He lasts full games for Wales. What an odd statement to make. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Soul Requiem Thu 06 May 2021, 2:19 pm

Oakdene wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

107 from 107 in one test is some going.

I don't think I said it was in one test.

He's played all of 25 minutes for the test team.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 2:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

Just a question of whether he makes the 60 min mark this time then?

Why ?

He lasts full games for Wales. What an odd statement to make. Rolling Eyes

Looking at the last tour. Even you didn't want him then like.

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 2:21 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:
Oakdene wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Tipuric is an interesting one for me. Not many people have him down as a starter, but he is massive for Wales, not only for what you might expecting like the break down, and link play, which he is absolutely excels at, but he is Wales go to man in the lineout.

His work in the lineout is second to none. Which is another area that the Boks target.

Never missed a tackle for the Lions either, 107 from 107.

107 from 107 in one test is some going.

I don't think I said it was in one test.

He's played all of 25 minutes for the test team.

He didn't mention the test team either.

This didn't take long to start. Rolling Eyes

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Post by LordDowlais Thu 06 May 2021, 2:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

Just a question of whether he makes the 60 min mark this time then?

Why ?

He lasts full games for Wales. What an odd statement to make. Rolling Eyes

Looking at the last tour. Even you didn't want him then like.

Yes I did. Why do you say this all the time ?

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Post by theslosty Thu 06 May 2021, 2:21 pm

I don't know about a fit Lawes being a no-brainer, you still have 2 or 3 other locks in there who can cover 6.

For once I think Scottish fans will be the most satisfied with the selection, you could only say Jonny Gray was their only contender to miss out meanwhile Sutherland, Fagerson, Price, Russell or Harris all won marginal calls - not that any of them are undeserving of course, and you might say it's well overdue
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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 06 May 2021, 2:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
R!skysports wrote:AWJ as captain will also be a discussion, is he going to be the best 2nd row and get selected for the tests?

Yes, he is the best, he is the 6N winning captain and his stats surpass all others in field during the 6N. He will start every test. OK

Just a question of whether he makes the 60 min mark this time then?

Why ?

He lasts full games for Wales. What an odd statement to make. Rolling Eyes

Looking at the last tour. Even you didn't want him then like.

Yes I did. Why do you say this all the time ?

Because you said repeatedly you didn't. Even quoted you.

Important question then, who is the captain for the last 20 in each test?

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Post by The Oracle Thu 06 May 2021, 2:24 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:Some strange selections. The forwards are not very Gatland-esque (3 smaller opensides and a small no.8) whilst the centres are not exactly designed for much finesse in attack.

As much as some of those players can consider themselves fortunate to get into the squad, I assume some of the unlucky players (Stander, Navidi, J Gray/Ryan, Sinckler, Sexton) will have a chance to come in if injuries hit.

As for Scots selections, I think we did overly well in winning the expected 50:50's (or even some of the 40:60s) and yet somehow J Gray did not get in. Can only think Gatland is only going to use them for the easy midweek games....

What is a Gatland-esque 7 and 8 then? As he’s always picked from Martyn Williams, Tipuric, Warburton and Faletau for his 7s and 8s when coaching Wales for 11 years. Where’s the monsters in there?!
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Post by dummy_half Thu 06 May 2021, 2:27 pm

Surprised that some are questioning Lawes selection and not that of Hill. Lawes is a very good internationally proven second row and adequate cover at 6, while Hill didn't grab his chance to shine for England this 6Ns - had a few good moments and a few daft ones.

Overall, with regards to the selection, we knew the 2nd row options generally were good. Front row picks look very solid. Flankers, including the 2nd row/6 hybrids is strong and interesting in looking like we could have some different tactical options. Back 3 similarly looks strong.
If there's a weakness it's the midfield backs. We all knew 9 was a bit of an issue with a lack of outstanding options. 10 is OK - the interest will be in whether Gatland will gamble on Russell, who is undoubtedly the 10 most likely to win us a match, but also the most likely to lose us one, or stick with what he knows in Biggar (Farrell as captain of the 'midweek' side). Centre options generally a bit meh other than Henshaw, not helped by injuries and form.

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Post by 123456789. Thu 06 May 2021, 2:28 pm

Bit of an admin question, sorry to distract from the age old is the 157 times capped, four times Lions tourist, multiple Six Nations winning Alun Wyn Jones any good at rugby. It's one of those questions we will probably never know the answer to.

Will the Japan game count as a capped test? Lions players include their Lions matches in the cap haul so will Japan count as a test in its own right. Japan play in red too, have the Lions got an away shirt? If not then some muppet has missed an ideal chance to get some extra money in. Some modern blue, green and white monstrosity perhaps.

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Post by mikey_dragon Thu 06 May 2021, 2:33 pm

Japan are an international test, so I think that will be a yes. You think all the available Scots will get the nod for that one?

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Post by dummy_half Thu 06 May 2021, 2:35 pm

The Oracle wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:Some strange selections. The forwards are not very Gatland-esque (3 smaller opensides and a small no.8) whilst the centres are not exactly designed for much finesse in attack.

As much as some of those players can consider themselves fortunate to get into the squad, I assume some of the unlucky players (Stander, Navidi, J Gray/Ryan, Sinckler, Sexton) will have a chance to come in if injuries hit.

As for Scots selections, I think we did overly well in winning the expected 50:50's (or even some of the 40:60s) and yet somehow J Gray did not get in. Can only think Gatland is only going to use them for the easy midweek games....

What is a Gatland-esque 7 and 8 then? As he’s always picked from Martyn Williams, Tipuric, Warburton and Faletau for his 7s and 8s when coaching Wales for 11 years. Where’s the monsters in there?!

It's an interesting point - for all the 'Gatlandball' comments, that mainly was about playing a 3/4 line that averaged about 17 stone and, at least in the days of Mike Phillips a big lad at scrum half. Gatland's preferred back rows generally have been on the smaller and more mobile side, with a good linking player at 7, an all rounder at 8 and a chopper (Lydiate / Moriarty) at 6.

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Post by BamBam Thu 06 May 2021, 2:35 pm

What do people think the approach is going to be to balance out the pack for the tests? To me it looks like we're going with the hybrid player (Beirne / Lawes) at 6 to try and combat some of the Boks weight and power advantage, but that will put a hell of a lot of pressure on the openside at the breakdown.

I'm with the consensus on Hill - James Ryan is a far better player. I think the biggest issues with the selection are the omission of Ryan, Sinckler and May - for me they have shown a better top level than some of the players in the squad, if I was part of the coaching staff I'd want to get them firing over taking someone with a lower ceiling as a steady eddie

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Post by George Carlin Thu 06 May 2021, 2:43 pm

James Ryan is the most surprising omission for me.

I haven't been watching Sinckler. Is he really that big a loss? Genuinely open question because I just don't know.

Jonny May on the other hand comes down to a question of what gameplan the coaches want. Which player would you lose for May? If you need something different on the wing, then the physicality of VdM makes perfect sense. RZ and May would seem to be the more interchangeable options.
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