Canelo v BJS...Oddsmakers are crazy !!

Last I saw BJS was 6-1....Really ??...If anyone has the style and confidence to beat Alvarez its the nauseating Brit...

Can I see Saunders being miles ahead after 8 ??....Yes.

Do I think Canelo will catch him ??...Probably not convinced.

Will the Judges intervene ??..Maybe.

6/1 though....Never in a million years...For me its a 60/40 fight.

You can get 9/2 for Saunders on a couple of sites I've seen this morning, Truss, so the odds do appear to be shortening slightly.

But I don't see Saunders winning this, largely because even if he did win it, he'll still lose. He can't stop Canelo and there's no way he's getting the verdict against the house fighter here, a Mexican star, on Cinco de Mayo weekend. Unless Saunders wins a minimum of nine rounds very, very clearly, Canelo can bank on his usual judging gifts.

I think the row over the ring size is confirmation (not that we didn't know this already, I guess) that Saunders was planning a stick-and-move job which can make Canelo look poor as we've seen before. But I don't see him making an impression with those judges using that strategy.

And let's be honest, there's no guarantee that Saunders is going to perform to the required level anyway. He's got talent but struggles to put it together for the full twelve rounds. Drifts in and out of fights, or fades late on etc. He's made relatively hard work of what should have been straightforward assignments.

The Lemieux fight was the pleasant exception and if he boxes like that then he's got the style and gifts to give Canelo a potentially torrid time. But I wonder if the occasion will get to Saunders and he might end up fighting a very cautious and negative fight as a result, or get disheartened at some stage. If so then it's possible that Canelo could win the fight fairly and without any skullduggery. Body shots will be key for Canelo as they're arguably the best part of his game and the best way to slow the quicker mover down.

I just think with his lack of big power Saunders has too much stacked against him here. Whether it's because he goes into his shell, or because he boxes well and makes Canelo struggle, I can see him going the distance - but in both cases I see Canelo getting the decision anyway.

I think what will be interesting is what happens if Saunders actually does the impossible and outfoxes and outboxes Canelo? If he does the "once in a career" perfect fight? Will the judges see the fight his way, or will they inexplicably give it to Canelo?

I always like supporting the Brit in any title fight, but I really don't like Saunders. I am no fan of Canelo due to his "questionable" doping history and subsequent so-called punishment (it's not like he needed more assistance - he's good enough), but I hope he knocks Saunders into next week.

Have to agree odds are crazy this is actually a 50/50 fight. I’ve got BJS at 5/1 and put a cheeky £10 on the draw at 22/1.

I'm slightly worried Canelo is going to lose. Mainly because I don't think he's all that good. Hope I'm wrong though.

I'd be shocked if a guy who couldn't finish Martin Murray can beat Canelo. I'd like to say stranger things have happened, but I'm not sure they have.

Canelo by KO. Nice to have a crowd in. Texas is so beautiful.

These boxing introductions really take the p!ss.

Churchill. Three national anthems. Now some Mexican carnival.

Ouch

Saunders couldn't cope with Canelo's power, it was a pretty comfortable win for the Mexican.

Two judges had it 78-74 Canelo at the time of it finishing, so safe to say Saunders' hopes were pretty forlorn anyway.

Disappointing fight overall which never really came to the boil. Saunders looked okay from rounds 4-6 but unfortunately will face accusations that he dogged it in this one at the first sign of trouble - obviously harsh but even before the stoppage you could argue that Saunders didn't quite give himself the best chance of victory by being a little too reactive and cautious in the early rounds.

I had Canelo up 77-76 at the time of the stoppage, I thought the two 78-74 cards were predictably a bit too kind to him. There were a couple of very close rounds so I can see why people might have had Saunders up by a slither at the time, but either way if it had carried on that eighth round would have sucked everything out of Saunders and it would only have delayed the inevitable.

With the benefit of hindsight there was little reason to think Saunders would win. He would have needed 12 rounds of intensity at full pelt. Instead what happened is Canelo was nearly as fresh in round 8 as when he started the fight and those last 4 rounds would have been too much for Billy Joe to handle.

Canelo didn't have to throw much at all. Disappointing end and that Mexican soap opera pre walk out??? Ridiculous

You need power to beat canelo, plant will go the same then GGG 3

I'm still not convinced with Canelo. He gives up too many rounds and a slickster with power could keep him off and beat him with fair scoring. But there's none around so he'll be okay for a while. Saunders, despite being game was outclassed in the end. Checked out UK updates and they were predictably a little kind towards his efforts.

I'm harsher on Canelo than most and I've made no secret that I think that, if he is indeed the pound for pound number one, he's the most average and underwhelming there's ever been (although that could apply to a couple of other current candidates as well).

Maybe we've been spoilt by having long-reigning pound for pounders like Jones, Mayweather and Pacquiao etc. in the last twenty-odd years, I don't know. But unlike those guys Canelo has never had a dominant, virtuoso win over a genuine top fighter, or turned a perceived 50:50 into a procession. He's never had a sustained period where he's looked a class above everyone he's fighting, or done things which really put you on the edge of your seat or make you marvel at his class.

I appreciate that's setting the bar extremely high, and probably seems unfair on him. But when you've had a string of guys who have delivered those kind of standards it sticks in the craw a little bit when you come across a successor who can't, but still gets the same plaudits as them. I suppose we're not used to seeing a pound for pound king whose flaws are so obvious and acknowledged, or who needs to look as workmanlike as he occasionally does.

Throw in the consistently lenient judging, the fact that he always seems to get the 'luck', the stench of the drug testing issue etc. and I just can't bring myself to rate him as highly as a lot of others do. I never have. But again I'll stress a lot of the things I find problematic in rating him aren't really his fault. He's a good fighter but not one I've ever taken to, or am likely to I suspect.

Think you're being a little harsh here Chris. It's only a handful of guys who've beaten "The man" from 154-175. Especially at his size. The guy is 5'7 and boxing wise actually has smaller dimensions than Mayweather and he went up and knocked out Kovalev. Yes it was a semi retired a couple months removed from going life and death with Yarde, but I think that's a win that deserves more credit. He also beat the brakes off a rather massive Callum Smith. And now he's finished BJS in style with a roaring 75 000 people at his back.

Like you, I've had my issues with the scoring of his fights, but I think sometimes we have to acknowledge the substance of his achievements, and not just the style. Post GGG, the guy's been horribly undersized in every fight he's been in, certainly more undersized than Floyd was in any major fight and he's convincingly beaten everyone he's faced. He's also never in any trouble, a great face for the sport and never in a boring fight.

Has Canelo in his professional career ever had to take a knockdown or standing count?

88Chris05 wrote:I'm harsher on Canelo than most and I've made no secret that I think that, if he is indeed the pound for pound number one, he's the most average and underwhelming there's ever been (although that could apply to a couple of other current candidates as well).

Maybe we've been spoilt by having long-reigning pound for pounders like Jones, Mayweather and Pacquiao etc. in the last twenty-odd years, I don't know. But unlike those guys Canelo has never had a dominant, virtuoso win over a genuine top fighter, or turned a perceived 50:50 into a procession. He's never had a sustained period where he's looked a class above everyone he's fighting, or done things which really put you on the edge of your seat or make you marvel at his class.

I appreciate that's setting the bar extremely high, and probably seems unfair on him. But when you've had a string of guys who have delivered those kind of standards it sticks in the craw a little bit when you come across a successor who can't, but still gets the same plaudits as them. I suppose we're not used to seeing a pound for pound king whose flaws are so obvious and acknowledged, or who needs to look as workmanlike as he occasionally does.

Throw in the consistently lenient judging, the fact that he always seems to get the 'luck', the stench of the drug testing issue etc. and I just can't bring myself to rate him as highly as a lot of others do. I never have. But again I'll stress a lot of the things I find problematic in rating him aren't really his fault. He's a good fighter but not one I've ever taken to, or am likely to I suspect.

You obviously thought Julio cesar chavez was ordinary then as P4p king.

Similar style...Struggled with Laporte...Mitchell..Ramirez...Embarassed by Taylor before the fix and had arguably lesser fighters on his CV...

He's not pleasing to the eye but Canelo is mightily effective..Like Hagler.

He's also a drugs cheat, something that cannot be ignored. He went from going the distance almost every fight to stopping much bigger men.

Raf, his frame is far bigger than that of Mayweather.

Maybe, but he doesn't walk around any bigger than Spence or Shawn Porter and he's challenged himself against an all time great at 175 and cleaned out 168.

Honestly I think GGG went 2-0 against Canelo. But its not his fault he's the golden boy.

People forgive Manny for being a Flyweight at 21 to becoming a deadly welter by eating his greens....Forgive Duran for his amazing ability to get down from 180 to 135 apparently drug free.

The drug thing is just for those that don't like him.

kingraf wrote:Maybe, but he doesn't walk around any bigger than Spence or Shawn Porter and he's challenged himself against an all time great at 175 and cleaned out 168.

Honestly I think GGG went 2-0 against Canelo. But its not his fault he's the golden boy.

He walks around about 2 stone heavier than either, he's a big middleweight.

As for Duran and Pacquiao, neither failed tests like Alvarez, a proven cheat.

Shawn Porter fought 165lbs as an amateur. He's as big as Canelo. He went down because its damn difficult to fight bigger men when you're giving up that much. Give Canelo his dues

Alvarez was bigger than Golovkin who was bigger than Brook who was bigger than Porter. They are not vaguely the same size.

@11:46
I'm surprised there's someone out there who doesn't think the Kovalev fight was a dive or at least giving off a powerful stench of something funny.

Glad Canelo won last night though.  I can't warm to that Saunders chap.

Brook was not bigger than Porter. Stop it. Porter has amateur wins over Usyk and Andrade and was listed as a 175lbs running back put of high school. Ie as an 18 year old he was already walking around with a 175lbs frame. Porter debuted as a super middleweight.

As for Kovalev-Canelo. Kovalev does tend to come apart late and come apart spectacularly. He was up 6-0 against Alvarez (Eeleider) and then a round later he was knocked out having been knocked down three times. Then against Yarde he was up 7-1 and then had to hold on for dear life to survive the 9th.

Hey kingraf, good to see you still kicking around here.

I might well be too hard on him, I guess we're all guilty of being a bit too hard or soft on certain fighters from time to time. I try to be as impartial as I can but ultimately I'm not really a Canelo fan so have to accept there might be some unintended bias creeping in. Obviously when I say I don't rate him, I only mean in relative terms considering the status he has.

For me he's still not quite shaken off the whiff of him being a protected fighter to some degree, though. Even in a couple of fights he's won inside-schedule, the generous scoring for him has suggested that a Canelo victory was already a fait accompli with or without the stoppage - arguably against Saunders here, but definitely against Kovalev. He's certainly been in with plenty of big names and good fighters, but it's a little easier to do that when you're getting all the money and the likelihood of favourable officiating. A couple of those big names on his record have been picked at a ripe and opportune time, albeit he's far from alone in that respect.

While I might not quite put him in the great bracket just yet, I'll happily admit he's already proved me wrong in one sense, because he's certainly become a better fighter than I ever thought he'd become back in 2011 / 2012 when the PR campaign to make him the sport's next superstar really began to gather pace.

And Truss, it's an interesting comparison with Chavez and a bit tricky for someone like me, who wasn't around or old enough to follow the sport during Chavez's peak years. But as I mentioned in one post above, I think with elite greats or genuine pound for pounders you're looking for something that little bit special or unexpected - I don't think Canelo has a win to compare to Chavez's over Rosario, for instance. That was one of those examples I was talking about (like Jones over Toney, Mayweather over Corrales, Pacquiao over Barrera I or Cotto etc.) where one guy beats another in a way nobody could have predicted or thought possible, or really underlines the difference between very good and truly great. A 50:50 or thereabouts fight which the pound for pounder in question turned into a masterclass. Chavez's famous first win over Taylor may be controversial and disputed, but that's better than Canelo getting an indefensible gift against Golovkin.

Maybe I'm just being nostalgic!

kingraf wrote:Brook was not bigger than Porter. Stop it. Porter has amateur wins over Usyk and Andrade and was listed as a 175lbs running back put of high school. Ie as an 18 year old he was already walking around with a 175lbs frame. Porter debuted as a super middleweight.

As for Kovalev-Canelo. Kovalev does tend to come apart late and come apart spectacularly. He was up 6-0 against Alvarez (Eeleider) and then a round later he was knocked out having been knocked down three times. Then against Yarde he was up 7-1 and then had to hold on for dear life to survive the 9th.

Brook was the bigger man against Porter, I'm not too fussed about amateur wins.