The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

More lies, damned lies and statistics

+6
Poorfour
mountain man
Old Man
The Oracle
RiscaGame
No 7&1/2
10 posters

Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 03 Mar 2022, 11:09 am

Doesn't really fit nicely anywhere else, Don't know if Walesonline did this themselves or nick it as is sometimes tradition but it's all nicely in 1 article. From an England perspective I've been impressed with Dombrandt who is perhaps being used in more tight areas than he traditionally has with Harlequins, lots of carries (including the lovely and completely legal try again Wales) but not the sort of metres seemingly that you may expect from him. Obviously stats can be taken with a pinch of salt but there has been a feeling that Jones and England could be 'moneyballing' it somewhat so I hope Jones can look beyond Malins being high on the assist list and look closer at the how many times has he actually tried to beat his man column.

SIX NATIONS STATS
Total points

48 - Marcus Smith (England)

36 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)

25 - Finn Russell (Scotland)

19 - Dan Biggar (Wales)

18 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)

17 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)

Tries

3 - Gabin Villiere (France)

3 - Damian Penaud (France)

2 - Andrew Conway (Ireland)

2 - Marcus Smith (England)

2 - Michael Lowry (Ireland)

2 - Jamie George (England)

2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)

2- James Lowe (Ireland)

Try Assists

3 - Romain Ntamack (France)

2 - Max Malins (England)

2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)

2 - Antoine Dupont (France)

2 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)

2 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)

Penalty Goals

10 - Marcus Smith (England)

8 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)

7 - Finn Russell (Scotland)

4 - Dan Biggar (Wales)

Passes Made

242 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)

205 - Tomos Williams (Wales)

162 - Ali Price (Scotland)

141 - Antoine Dupont (France)

Carries

41 - Gregory Alldritt (France)

38 - Liam Williams (Wales)

35 - Alex Dombrandt (England)

33 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)

32 - Freddie Steward (England)

31 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)

31 - Will Rowlands (Wales)

Metres Made

367 - Freddie Steward (England)

326 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)

303 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)

294 - Liam Williams (Wales)

289 - Max Malins (England)

260 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)

241 - Alex Cuthbert (Wales)

Successful Tackles

67 - Anthony Jelonch (France)

60 - Taine Basham (Wales)

59 - Francois Cros (France)

58 - Ryan Elias (Wales)

58 - Michele Lamaro (Italy)

55 - Gregory Alldritt (France)

54 - Caelan Doris (Ireland)

Turnovers Won

6 - Alex Dombrandt (England)

5 - Maro Itoje (England)

3 - Rory Darge (Scotland)

3 - Gregory Alldritt (France)

3 - Giovanni Pettinelli (Italy)

3 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)

3 - Andrew Porter (Ireland)

3 - Gabin Villiere (France)

3 - Toa Halafihi (Italy)

3 - Anthony Jelonch (France)

Offloads

5 - Max Malins (England)

5 - Damian Penaud (France)

5 - Gregory Alldritt (France)

4 - Liam Williams (Wales)

4 - Monty Ioane (Italy)

4 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)

4 - Tomos Williams (Wales)

4 - Yoram Moefana (France)

4 - Dan Sheehan (Ireland)

Lineouts Won

19 - Federico Ruzza (Italy)

17 - Cameron Woki (France)

15 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)

14 - Maro Itoje (England)

12 - Nick Isiekwe (England)

11 - Ross Moriarty (Wales)

10 - Adam Beard (Wales)

10 - James Ryan (Ireland)

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

doctor_grey, lostinwales, nlpnlp and RiscaGame like this post

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by RiscaGame Thu 03 Mar 2022, 3:20 pm

Interesting. From a Welsh POV, Liam Williams is consistently appearing in a few of those.

Only 1 drop goal thus far (Biggar), which is killing one of my bets Very Happy

RiscaGame
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 5178
Join date : 2016-01-24

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by The Oracle Thu 03 Mar 2022, 4:00 pm

As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks! So....... that's all I'll say!
The Oracle
The Oracle

Posts : 4541
Join date : 2018-01-16

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Old Man Thu 03 Mar 2022, 4:23 pm

The most misleading stat are metres made by fullbacks, they get plenty of free meters from the back.

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by mountain man Thu 03 Mar 2022, 4:25 pm

And I think metres made by Scotland was twice that of France.

Only stat that matters is final score. Doesn't matter how many tries or metres made or turnovers or lineouts or scrums etc etc.
Obviously for coaches they can be usual for gauging how their players are doing but ultimately final score only one that matter.

mountain man

Posts : 339
Join date : 2021-03-09

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 03 Mar 2022, 4:38 pm

The Oracle wrote:As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks!  So....... that's all I'll say!
They're all useless without context and understanding.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

doctor_grey likes this post

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Poorfour Thu 03 Mar 2022, 4:59 pm

The turnover stat is interesting - I knew Dombrandt had improved massively at turnovers, but that he and Itoje - an 8 and a lock - are leading the stats by a considerable distance says something about Eddie's "numberless" strategy - if turnovers can come from anywhere in the pack then it allows for different options in selection.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5111
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Gooseberry Sat 05 Mar 2022, 7:51 am

Dombrants also been putting in a lot of tackles. Combined with his carries does suggest his workrates been very high, as well as him being an 80 minutes player does suggest hes really addressed the concerns Jones used to have about him.

Early days in his career but could well go on to be a key player for England, replacing what theyve missed since Vunipola got injury ravaged and lazy.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Poorfour Sat 05 Mar 2022, 8:12 am

In fairness to Billy, he’s looked much better for Saracens since he came back. He seems to have slimmed down and upped his work rate.

But I think as Dombrandt gets more experience he will offer almost as much ball in hand while providing a wider range of skills and a really good rugby brain.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5111
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by The Oracle Sat 05 Mar 2022, 9:00 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks!  So....... that's all I'll say!
They're all useless without context and understanding.

Where’s the context above?!
The Oracle
The Oracle

Posts : 4541
Join date : 2018-01-16

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 05 Mar 2022, 10:36 am

Change of role of Dombrandt?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by majesticimperialman Sat 05 Mar 2022, 4:06 pm

England's hardest 3 games are behind them. Erm

Next 2 games shpuld be easy peasy. Sorry Run

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6021
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Gooseberry Sat 05 Mar 2022, 7:11 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:England's hardest 3 games are behind them. Erm

Next 2 games shpuld be easy peasy. Sorry Run

Yep much easier to lose these two , they cut it fine but got over the line against Scotland, and tried their hardest to gift Wales a win. Italy a bit of a shocker but to be expected really, Ireland must be fuming after the Italians took players off the pitch to ensure they got a big loss.

Gooseberry

Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by majesticimperialman Sun 06 Mar 2022, 8:08 am

Ireland must be fuming after the Italians took players off the pitch to ensure they got a big loss.

Not really it just made Ireland look a better team than they actually are. thumbsup

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6021
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 07 Mar 2022, 1:42 pm

Ringrose is the surprise for me there. You don't tend to get centres towards the top of the carries and metres made rankings.
Also Villieres appearing on tries scored and turnovers!! That lad is doing it all

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2708
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by doctor_grey Mon 07 Mar 2022, 9:26 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Ringrose is the surprise for me there. You don't tend to get centres towards the top of the carries and metres made rankings.
Also Villieres appearing on tries scored and turnovers!! That lad is doing it all
I agree. I think one point about carries is that if a player is not in the back three and have a lot of carries like Aldritt, Dombrandt, Ringrose, many of those are tough guy carries into traffic. Not saying these stats indicate one player is better than the others. Rather that these are all tough guys who have the confidence of their coaches and team mates to do the grunt work over and over. And do it well.

For me, the only real test to separate one player from another is the Eye Test, and we all have slightly different perceptions (and you all have the right to be wrong when you differ from me).

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

More lies, damned lies and statistics Empty Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum