More lies, damned lies and statistics
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Poorfour
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Old Man
RiscaGame
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More lies, damned lies and statistics
Doesn't really fit nicely anywhere else, Don't know if Walesonline did this themselves or nick it as is sometimes tradition but it's all nicely in 1 article. From an England perspective I've been impressed with Dombrandt who is perhaps being used in more tight areas than he traditionally has with Harlequins, lots of carries (including the lovely and completely legal try again Wales) but not the sort of metres seemingly that you may expect from him. Obviously stats can be taken with a pinch of salt but there has been a feeling that Jones and England could be 'moneyballing' it somewhat so I hope Jones can look beyond Malins being high on the assist list and look closer at the how many times has he actually tried to beat his man column.
SIX NATIONS STATS
Total points
48 - Marcus Smith (England)
36 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)
25 - Finn Russell (Scotland)
19 - Dan Biggar (Wales)
18 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)
17 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)
Tries
3 - Gabin Villiere (France)
3 - Damian Penaud (France)
2 - Andrew Conway (Ireland)
2 - Marcus Smith (England)
2 - Michael Lowry (Ireland)
2 - Jamie George (England)
2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
2- James Lowe (Ireland)
Try Assists
3 - Romain Ntamack (France)
2 - Max Malins (England)
2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
2 - Antoine Dupont (France)
2 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)
2 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)
Penalty Goals
10 - Marcus Smith (England)
8 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)
7 - Finn Russell (Scotland)
4 - Dan Biggar (Wales)
Passes Made
242 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
205 - Tomos Williams (Wales)
162 - Ali Price (Scotland)
141 - Antoine Dupont (France)
Carries
41 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
38 - Liam Williams (Wales)
35 - Alex Dombrandt (England)
33 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
32 - Freddie Steward (England)
31 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)
31 - Will Rowlands (Wales)
Metres Made
367 - Freddie Steward (England)
326 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
303 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)
294 - Liam Williams (Wales)
289 - Max Malins (England)
260 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)
241 - Alex Cuthbert (Wales)
Successful Tackles
67 - Anthony Jelonch (France)
60 - Taine Basham (Wales)
59 - Francois Cros (France)
58 - Ryan Elias (Wales)
58 - Michele Lamaro (Italy)
55 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
54 - Caelan Doris (Ireland)
Turnovers Won
6 - Alex Dombrandt (England)
5 - Maro Itoje (England)
3 - Rory Darge (Scotland)
3 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
3 - Giovanni Pettinelli (Italy)
3 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
3 - Andrew Porter (Ireland)
3 - Gabin Villiere (France)
3 - Toa Halafihi (Italy)
3 - Anthony Jelonch (France)
Offloads
5 - Max Malins (England)
5 - Damian Penaud (France)
5 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
4 - Liam Williams (Wales)
4 - Monty Ioane (Italy)
4 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)
4 - Tomos Williams (Wales)
4 - Yoram Moefana (France)
4 - Dan Sheehan (Ireland)
Lineouts Won
19 - Federico Ruzza (Italy)
17 - Cameron Woki (France)
15 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
14 - Maro Itoje (England)
12 - Nick Isiekwe (England)
11 - Ross Moriarty (Wales)
10 - Adam Beard (Wales)
10 - James Ryan (Ireland)
SIX NATIONS STATS
Total points
48 - Marcus Smith (England)
36 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)
25 - Finn Russell (Scotland)
19 - Dan Biggar (Wales)
18 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)
17 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)
Tries
3 - Gabin Villiere (France)
3 - Damian Penaud (France)
2 - Andrew Conway (Ireland)
2 - Marcus Smith (England)
2 - Michael Lowry (Ireland)
2 - Jamie George (England)
2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
2- James Lowe (Ireland)
Try Assists
3 - Romain Ntamack (France)
2 - Max Malins (England)
2 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
2 - Antoine Dupont (France)
2 - Johnny Sexton (Ireland)
2 - Joey Carberry (Ireland)
Penalty Goals
10 - Marcus Smith (England)
8 - Melvyn Jaminet (France)
7 - Finn Russell (Scotland)
4 - Dan Biggar (Wales)
Passes Made
242 - Jamison Gibson-Park (Ireland)
205 - Tomos Williams (Wales)
162 - Ali Price (Scotland)
141 - Antoine Dupont (France)
Carries
41 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
38 - Liam Williams (Wales)
35 - Alex Dombrandt (England)
33 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
32 - Freddie Steward (England)
31 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)
31 - Will Rowlands (Wales)
Metres Made
367 - Freddie Steward (England)
326 - Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
303 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)
294 - Liam Williams (Wales)
289 - Max Malins (England)
260 - Garry Ringrose (Ireland)
241 - Alex Cuthbert (Wales)
Successful Tackles
67 - Anthony Jelonch (France)
60 - Taine Basham (Wales)
59 - Francois Cros (France)
58 - Ryan Elias (Wales)
58 - Michele Lamaro (Italy)
55 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
54 - Caelan Doris (Ireland)
Turnovers Won
6 - Alex Dombrandt (England)
5 - Maro Itoje (England)
3 - Rory Darge (Scotland)
3 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
3 - Giovanni Pettinelli (Italy)
3 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
3 - Andrew Porter (Ireland)
3 - Gabin Villiere (France)
3 - Toa Halafihi (Italy)
3 - Anthony Jelonch (France)
Offloads
5 - Max Malins (England)
5 - Damian Penaud (France)
5 - Gregory Alldritt (France)
4 - Liam Williams (Wales)
4 - Monty Ioane (Italy)
4 - Mack Hansen (Ireland)
4 - Tomos Williams (Wales)
4 - Yoram Moefana (France)
4 - Dan Sheehan (Ireland)
Lineouts Won
19 - Federico Ruzza (Italy)
17 - Cameron Woki (France)
15 - Tadhg Beirne (Ireland)
14 - Maro Itoje (England)
12 - Nick Isiekwe (England)
11 - Ross Moriarty (Wales)
10 - Adam Beard (Wales)
10 - James Ryan (Ireland)
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31383
Join date : 2012-10-20
doctor_grey, lostinwales, nlpnlp and RiscaGame like this post
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
Interesting. From a Welsh POV, Liam Williams is consistently appearing in a few of those.
Only 1 drop goal thus far (Biggar), which is killing one of my bets
Only 1 drop goal thus far (Biggar), which is killing one of my bets
RiscaGame- Moderator
- Posts : 5983
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Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks! So....... that's all I'll say!
Guest- Guest
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
The most misleading stat are metres made by fullbacks, they get plenty of free meters from the back.
Old Man- Posts : 3200
Join date : 2019-08-27
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
And I think metres made by Scotland was twice that of France.
Only stat that matters is final score. Doesn't matter how many tries or metres made or turnovers or lineouts or scrums etc etc.
Obviously for coaches they can be usual for gauging how their players are doing but ultimately final score only one that matter.
Only stat that matters is final score. Doesn't matter how many tries or metres made or turnovers or lineouts or scrums etc etc.
Obviously for coaches they can be usual for gauging how their players are doing but ultimately final score only one that matter.
mountain man- Posts : 3393
Join date : 2021-03-09
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
They're all useless without context and understanding.The Oracle wrote:As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks! So....... that's all I'll say!
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31383
Join date : 2012-10-20
doctor_grey likes this post
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
The turnover stat is interesting - I knew Dombrandt had improved massively at turnovers, but that he and Itoje - an 8 and a lock - are leading the stats by a considerable distance says something about Eddie's "numberless" strategy - if turnovers can come from anywhere in the pack then it allows for different options in selection.
Poorfour- Posts : 6453
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
Dombrants also been putting in a lot of tackles. Combined with his carries does suggest his workrates been very high, as well as him being an 80 minutes player does suggest hes really addressed the concerns Jones used to have about him.
Early days in his career but could well go on to be a key player for England, replacing what theyve missed since Vunipola got injury ravaged and lazy.
Early days in his career but could well go on to be a key player for England, replacing what theyve missed since Vunipola got injury ravaged and lazy.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
In fairness to Billy, he’s looked much better for Saracens since he came back. He seems to have slimmed down and upped his work rate.
But I think as Dombrandt gets more experience he will offer almost as much ball in hand while providing a wider range of skills and a really good rugby brain.
But I think as Dombrandt gets more experience he will offer almost as much ball in hand while providing a wider range of skills and a really good rugby brain.
Poorfour- Posts : 6453
Join date : 2011-10-01
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
No 7&1/2 wrote:They're all useless without context and understanding.The Oracle wrote:As you've argued in the past, 7.5, stats are all b*ll*cks! So....... that's all I'll say!
Where’s the context above?!
Guest- Guest
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
Change of role of Dombrandt?
No 7&1/2- Posts : 31383
Join date : 2012-10-20
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
England's hardest 3 games are behind them.
Next 2 games shpuld be easy peasy.
Next 2 games shpuld be easy peasy.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
majesticimperialman wrote:England's hardest 3 games are behind them.
Next 2 games shpuld be easy peasy.
Yep much easier to lose these two , they cut it fine but got over the line against Scotland, and tried their hardest to gift Wales a win. Italy a bit of a shocker but to be expected really, Ireland must be fuming after the Italians took players off the pitch to ensure they got a big loss.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
Ireland must be fuming after the Italians took players off the pitch to ensure they got a big loss.
Not really it just made Ireland look a better team than they actually are.
Not really it just made Ireland look a better team than they actually are.
majesticimperialman- Posts : 6170
Join date : 2011-02-11
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
Ringrose is the surprise for me there. You don't tend to get centres towards the top of the carries and metres made rankings.
Also Villieres appearing on tries scored and turnovers!! That lad is doing it all
Also Villieres appearing on tries scored and turnovers!! That lad is doing it all
thebandwagonsociety- Posts : 2901
Join date : 2011-06-02
Re: More lies, damned lies and statistics
I agree. I think one point about carries is that if a player is not in the back three and have a lot of carries like Aldritt, Dombrandt, Ringrose, many of those are tough guy carries into traffic. Not saying these stats indicate one player is better than the others. Rather that these are all tough guys who have the confidence of their coaches and team mates to do the grunt work over and over. And do it well.thebandwagonsociety wrote:Ringrose is the surprise for me there. You don't tend to get centres towards the top of the carries and metres made rankings.
Also Villieres appearing on tries scored and turnovers!! That lad is doing it all
For me, the only real test to separate one player from another is the Eye Test, and we all have slightly different perceptions (and you all have the right to be wrong when you differ from me).
doctor_grey- Posts : 12396
Join date : 2011-04-30
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