Welsh pro clubs - 2022/23 URC positions

Where do you expect the 4 Welsh clubs to position in the 2022/23 URC? Will they do better than last season or worse? And why?

Reminder of 2022 positions:

9 Ospreys
10 Scarlets

14 Cardiff
15 Dragons

6, 7, 10, 12.

Yes. They won't be affected by Covid and got lots of new players in.

Pot Hale wrote:6, 7, 10, 12.

Yes.  They won't be affected by Covid and got lots of new players in.

Which 5 teams do you think will finish above the best Welsh placed club?

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:6, 7, 10, 12.

Yes.  They won't be affected by Covid and got lots of new players in.

Which 5 teams do you think will finish above the best Welsh placed club?

Probably ones from SA, Ireland and possibly Scotland. Difficult to tell at this point until Round 6.

I could probably see it ending up as this:-

8. Ospreys
9. Cardiff
11. Dragons
14. Scarlets

I just hope the Dragons can turn their home record around this year. There's no way we shouldn't win any games at home so last season should just be a blip.

Also I am aware I will be totally wrong with my prediction

Welshmushroom wrote:I could probably see it ending up as this:-

8. Ospreys
9. Cardiff
11. Dragons
14. Scarlets

I think that's much more realistic. I think with the trimming of the squads relative to other teams, the performances of the Welsh 4 will be worse thn last season. And I can certainly see Scarlets coming 4th out of 4.

RugbyFan100 wrote:Where do you expect the 4 Welsh clubs to position in the 2022/23 URC? Will they do better than last season or worse? And why?

Reminder of 2022 positions:

9 Ospreys
10 Scarlets

14 Cardiff
15 Dragons

I thought Ospreys were 10th last season, with the rest below them?

I think each of the 4 will do better. Every Welsh Region has a strong starting XV, whilst teams like Munster, Glasgow could possibly regress as they have new coaches.

If the Welsh regions do worse then something is seriously not right and we should probably give up. There's a few new signings in action for 3 of the teams tonight. I haven't heard much news on Ospreys pre-season games.

Nope Ospreys finished 9, Scarlets 10 as per the post.

To be fair Ospreys would have probably made the top 8 but the bonus points killed their season. I think they won more games than some of the sides above them.

Scarlets put all their eggs into 1 player. Given the players that left to make way for him I actually think they are weaker this year. Ospreys did nothing in the market of note. Cardiff did get some quality but it's Cardiff. They always flatter to deceive. On paper should be a team challenging but they never deliver. Knowing them they will have a car crash season despite how good a starting 15 they could probably put out.

Dragons clear out hopefully will pay dividends. I'm so glad we were the only region to not extend contracts because of Covid. It's ended up us bringing a lot of new players. I can see us finishing above the Scarlets this year.

You don’t like Scarlets do you Mushroom? I think last year was a blip and they should do a lot better. Why on earth didn’t they bring in a good defence coach though.

Have Scarlets lost lots of players?

If not I cannot see them finishing so low

Scarlets offloaded some players that were dead wood. They have good front-rowers coming through their pathway, and a host of quality overseas players (perhaps a little too many). The only signing of note is Fifita who is apparently a very impressive player. According to their supporters after the first pre-season game, their defence is still atrocious. I think their defence could be helped if they just didn’t play Davies at 13.

I'm looking forward to the season ahead from a Scarlets point of view, we haven't had loads of players coming in but we have got rid of some deadwood & players who don't really want to be there.

We already look a lot fitter this season so hopefully we can be more competitive over the whole game rather thank only being in the match for 55/60 mins. We have the foundations of a good pack which has got stronger since Franks has been on the coaching set up.

We need to improve defensively & for me our starting centres should be the 2 Williams's as they are great line breakers & also solid in defence.

I don't think this new team Dragons RFC will be as bad as the team they've replaced (Dragons), but I still don't see them getting more than a handful of home wins and thus not really rising up the tables. I think they still look pretty weak up front overall, certainly with how they carry in to contact and they still have a lot of unforced errors. The backline seems good, but then it's hard to tell what kind of ball they will be playing off.

mikey_dragon wrote:You don’t like Scarlets do you Mushroom? I think last year was a blip and they should do a lot better. Why on earth didn’t they bring in a good defence coach though.

I don't have a disliking for them. In a perfect world I would like to see all the welsh sides do well (granted with the dragons top of the pile). My issue with them is they simply have a bloated squad that in my eyes isn't good enough despite spending 8 million on player salaries. Aside from Leinster is there anyone else with that kind of payroll? Questionable but even if we assume Ulster and Munster have (and I don't think Munster are spending 8 million) they should finish 4th every year. The fact they don't get anywhere near that tells you they have a lot of guys that simply are not good enough.

After last year seeing them in action in my opinion they needed to cull at least 20+ players who are simply out of their depth at URC level.

I would put the teams in groups.

Group 1: Leinster
Group 2: Stormers, Sharks, Bulls, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh
Group 3: Lions, Connacht, Cardiff, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton
Group 4: Dragons, Zebre


According to that the best Welsh based side will be 9th at best but its not written in stone and you'd expect one team to make the playoffs.

From a Welsh perspective I really think the Scarlets & Ospreys have the best chances of making the play offs. I think Cardiff still are too weak in the front 5 & whilst I think the Dragons have a better squad this year I don't expect them to fly up the league.

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:You don’t like Scarlets do you Mushroom? I think last year was a blip and they should do a lot better. Why on earth didn’t they bring in a good defence coach though.

I don't have a disliking for them.  In a perfect world I would like to see all the welsh sides do well (granted with the dragons top of the pile).  My issue with them is they simply have a bloated squad that in my eyes isn't good enough despite spending 8 million on player salaries.  Aside from Leinster is there anyone else with that kind of payroll?  Questionable but even if we assume Ulster and Munster have (and I don't think Munster are spending 8 million) they should finish 4th every year.  The fact they don't get anywhere near that tells you they have a lot of guys that simply are not good enough.  

After last year seeing them in action in my opinion they needed to cull at least 20+ players who are simply out of their depth at URC level.

Gee, 20+ players is a lot. I don't see it. There is something not right with the coaching set-up. The team was serisouly lacking in cohesion, similar to how the ABs have been in recent weeks. I can't quite figure out why. I think they would have been helped a lot had Brad Mooar stayed there. Internationals up front, some of which are NQW and available all year, they should do better. They also would have benefitted a lot from signing someone like Sio Tomkinson.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:You don’t like Scarlets do you Mushroom? I think last year was a blip and they should do a lot better. Why on earth didn’t they bring in a good defence coach though.

I don't have a disliking for them.  In a perfect world I would like to see all the welsh sides do well (granted with the dragons top of the pile).  My issue with them is they simply have a bloated squad that in my eyes isn't good enough despite spending 8 million on player salaries.  Aside from Leinster is there anyone else with that kind of payroll?  Questionable but even if we assume Ulster and Munster have (and I don't think Munster are spending 8 million) they should finish 4th every year.  The fact they don't get anywhere near that tells you they have a lot of guys that simply are not good enough.  

After last year seeing them in action in my opinion they needed to cull at least 20+ players who are simply out of their depth at URC level.

Gee, 20+ players is a lot. I don't see it. There is something not right with the coaching set-up. The team was serisouly lacking in cohesion, similar to how the ABs have been in recent weeks. I can't quite figure out why. I think they would have been helped a lot had Brad Mooar stayed there. Internationals up front, some of which are NQW and available all year, they should do better. They also would have benefitted a lot from signing someone like Sio Tomkinson.

We had a lot of players that were there on reputation the likes of Sanjay who we never saw & when we did he seems to be petulant & giving away stupid penalties, along with Rob Evans who has struggled since injury.

We have been coasting a long for a couple of years now but hopefully we will have Peel there for a long time & we can kick on this season. We were amongst the highest points scorers last season but also amongst the highest points conceded so if we can reduce that aspect there is no reason we shouldn't be able to challenge for the play offs.

Welshmushroom wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:You don’t like Scarlets do you Mushroom? I think last year was a blip and they should do a lot better. Why on earth didn’t they bring in a good defence coach though.

I don't have a disliking for them.  In a perfect world I would like to see all the welsh sides do well (granted with the dragons top of the pile).  My issue with them is they simply have a bloated squad that in my eyes isn't good enough despite spending 8 million on player salaries.  Aside from Leinster is there anyone else with that kind of payroll?  Questionable but even if we assume Ulster and Munster have (and I don't think Munster are spending 8 million) they should finish 4th every year.  The fact they don't get anywhere near that tells you they have a lot of guys that simply are not good enough.  

After last year seeing them in action in my opinion they needed to cull at least 20+ players who are simply out of their depth at URC level.

That payroll figure was from a few years ago when Delaney was head coach. There were some terrible signings on decent money (Tyler Morgan was one). That was a decent squad budget that was wasted with awful coaching and average players on silly money.

Since then the squad has been trimmed quite a bit with players on big money moving on. The salary spend will be closer to £6m now. I'd expect both Ospreys and Cardiff to be above us in spending now, yet alone the likes of Munster and Ulster. We'll get to see the figure next year when the accounts are published, seeing as we have financial transparency in Wales.

profitius wrote:I would put the teams in groups.

Group 1: Leinster
Group 2: Stormers, Sharks, Bulls, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh
Group 3: Lions, Connacht, Cardiff, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton
Group 4: Dragons, Zebre


According to that the best Welsh based side will be 9th at best but its not written in stone and you'd expect one team to make the playoffs.  

I can kind of see the logic but I'd be more towards;

I would put the teams in groups.

Group 1: Leinster, Stormers, Bulls,
Group 2: Sharks, Munster, Ulster,
Group 3: Glasgow, Ospreys, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Scarlets, Benetton
Group 4: Lions, Connacht,
Group 5: Dragons, Zebre

I think it could be a very interesting and competitive season. I'd have osprey/cardiff/scarlets all fighting for the last 2 places in the playoffs with the scots & benetton.

Wow, I'd put Bulls and Stormers in the same pot as Leinster (I don't think there is a gap there when both full strength).

In my opinion it could be a season for shocks in the league. Everyone knows how important wins and bonus points have become.

I think we will see by Round 7 how desperate sides will become to get some points and we could see more scenarios of teams going full strength away from home than ever before.

Keep in mind any side who doesn't get past the opening rounds of Europe or qualify for the top 8 will essentially be ending their season at the end of April. Might be a actual bonus for international coaches though.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

That payroll figure was from a few years ago when Delaney was head coach. There were some terrible signings on decent money (Tyler Morgan was one). That was a decent squad budget that was wasted with awful coaching and average players on silly money.

Since then the squad has been trimmed quite a bit with players on big money moving on. The salary spend will be closer to £6m now. I'd expect both Ospreys and Cardiff to be above us in spending now, yet alone the likes of Munster and Ulster. We'll get to see the figure next year when the accounts are published, seeing as we have financial transparency in Wales.

Financial year ending June 2021 has the business spending £9.6m on salaries, so you'd expect the £8m on player wages to be not far off (but not near £6m)

PhilBB wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

That payroll figure was from a few years ago when Delaney was head coach. There were some terrible signings on decent money (Tyler Morgan was one). That was a decent squad budget that was wasted with awful coaching and average players on silly money.

Since then the squad has been trimmed quite a bit with players on big money moving on. The salary spend will be closer to £6m now. I'd expect both Ospreys and Cardiff to be above us in spending now, yet alone the likes of Munster and Ulster. We'll get to see the figure next year when the accounts are published, seeing as we have financial transparency in Wales.

Financial year ending June 2021 has the business spending £9.6m on salaries, so you'd expect the £8m on player wages to be not far off (but not near £6m)

Yes for 2 years ago. We'll see what the salary figure for this season is in the next set of accounts, although they lump every staff member in don't they? Including the tea ladies.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

That payroll figure was from a few years ago when Delaney was head coach. There were some terrible signings on decent money (Tyler Morgan was one). That was a decent squad budget that was wasted with awful coaching and average players on silly money.

Since then the squad has been trimmed quite a bit with players on big money moving on. The salary spend will be closer to £6m now. I'd expect both Ospreys and Cardiff to be above us in spending now, yet alone the likes of Munster and Ulster. We'll get to see the figure next year when the accounts are published, seeing as we have financial transparency in Wales.

Financial year ending June 2021 has the business spending £9.6m on salaries, so you'd expect the £8m on player wages to be not far off (but not near £6m)

Yes for 2 years ago. We'll see what the salary figure for this season is in the next set of accounts, although they lump every staff member in don't they? Including the tea ladies.

No, we'll see the figure for last season in the next set of accounts. Yes, they lump in all salaries hence I noted £9.6m in total, meaning £8m in player wages would be about right.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

profitius wrote:I would put the teams in groups.

Group 1: Leinster
Group 2: Stormers, Sharks, Bulls, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh
Group 3: Lions, Connacht, Cardiff, Ospreys, Scarlets, Benetton
Group 4: Dragons, Zebre


According to that the best Welsh based side will be 9th at best but its not written in stone and you'd expect one team to make the playoffs.  

I can kind of see the logic but I'd be more towards;

I would put the teams in groups.

Group 1: Leinster, Stormers, Bulls,
Group 2: Sharks, Munster, Ulster,
Group 3: Glasgow, Ospreys, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Scarlets, Benetton
Group 4: Lions, Connacht,
Group 5: Dragons, Zebre

I think it could be a very interesting and competitive season. I'd have osprey/cardiff/scarlets all fighting for the last 2 places in the playoffs with the scots & benetton.

Wow, I'd put Bulls and Stormers in the same pot as Leinster (I don't think there is a gap there when both full strength).

I can see the logic in both tables but it's hard to find the gaps between teams.

From last year towards the end
1A Leinster
1B Bulls, Stormers, Ulster
2A Munster, Sharks, Edinburgh, Ospreys
2B Glasgow, Scarlets, Connacht, Lions
3 Benetton, Cardiff
4 Dragons
5 Zebre

Cardiff started strong as did Dragon but by the end where barely holding on. Glasgow and Munster were similar but higher up.
Ospreys and Benetton improved as did the 3 SA teams.

This year I see
Top 5 being Leinster, Ulster, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers in any order. Sharks could drop out based on coaching but squad is top level.
Munster, Ospreys, Scarlets, Edinburgh probably going for Top 8.
Benetton and Cardiff are the big unknowns and could be top 8 or bottom 4. They have good squads but hit and miss to much.
Connacht and Lions will be pushing for Top 10.
Zebre and Dragons bottom 2
Glasgow I don't know but if teams smell blood it could be bottom 4. I think not getting Champs Cup was a blessing.

Pot Hale wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:6, 7, 10, 12.

Yes.  They won't be affected by Covid and got lots of new players in.

Which 5 teams do you think will finish above the best Welsh placed club?

Probably ones from SA, Ireland and possibly Scotland.    Difficult to tell at this point until Round 6.  

Looking good so far at Round 6.....

We're expecting 10-12 players back from injury (& suspension in 2 players cases) over the next month which should help us. Having 19 players injured cannot make training easy let alone matches.