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Anthony Joshua - Money in a hurry over legacy !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 20 Sep 2022, 12:35 pm

Which is okay if you need the money....But this guy has many more paydays in him and is worth 80million already....

Fight doesn't make sense financially or legacy wise for AJ....Ruiz...Usyk x 2 and a stoppage off Fury means any chance at greatness is gone if he had any anyway.....As he has been struggling to get fighters out of there for a while I'd love to know how the big stiff beats Fury !!....40% of an unwinnable Fury fight is nothing compared to two warm ups....Probably an alphabet and then 50/50 v Fury....

Thing is AJ will always be a sellable quality outside Boxing commercially anyway......The less succesful Bruno was..

Throwing it away like this is silly......His new Trainers and Hearn are not advising him properly.....If he turned the fight down no one would mind as he has two losses consecutively...It reminds me of the Meldrick Taylor cash grab...

Thrown in against Terry Norris at too higher weight for money....Rushed in to a title fight with Espana straight after and then chucked at Chavez 2.

Silly billy stuff......But it is what it is. Anthony Joshua - Money in a hurry over legacy !! 3845856932




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Post by Oakdene Tue 20 Sep 2022, 1:02 pm

Was listening to TalkSport earlier & the boxing expert that was on with Jim White & Simon Jordan, said that AJ has little chance of winning & certainly won't outbox Fury. He did say the only chance he has is if he is aggressive from the off & throws the kitchen sink at Fury.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 20 Sep 2022, 5:23 pm

He is gunshy from Ruiz.....It's not his game sadly. If he wanted to beat Usyk he had to be aggressive and throw the kitchen sink...If he can't do that with with a Cruiser he isn't going to be so bold against a 260 pounder that is 3 inches taller.

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Post by 88Chris05 Tue 20 Sep 2022, 6:47 pm

I'm on the other side of the fence to you on this one, Truss.

I don't believe for a second that the fight is going to happen before Christmas - but if it does, I don't see why any Joshua fans would really be against it.

Is it really putting money over legacy? I'm not so sure. His legacy will be badly harmed if he never faces either of Wilder or Fury, and the window for those fights (certainly at least in terms of them being meaningful or mega fights) is getting smaller all the time. I think building a legacy has to include taking some risks, and most would applaud Joshua for not shying away from the Fury fight (if it's a legitimate opening) despite the going getting tough for him in recent times.

He'd be a relatively big underdog going into the fight, but if that disqualifies him and we applied that kind of thinking to all big fights, we'd have even fewer of them than we already have - and what we already have is precious little. Him beating Fury would be a surprise, but not exactly a cataclysmic shock. The way some people are talking it's as if they think Joshua's not even fit to share a ring with Fury these days. I'd imagine most would still consider him a top five Heavyweight in the world.

I get your point about the benefits of him going away, getting a couple of wins under his belt and maybe facing Fury further down the line...But as boxing fans we should really know that these plans to build (or rebuild) fights up and wait for the circumstances to be optimal very seldom work out.

The circumstances of the fight aren't perfect anymore and favour one guy over the other, sure...But who's to say that if either party puts it off again now the circumstances won't get even worse over time, rather than better? It's already lost some of its lustre from back in 2020 and 2021 when we heard two summers in a row that it was 'signed'. Despite that, it's still a legitimate and very lucrative fight and a considerable feather in the cap of whoever wins - especially if it's Joshua. I say let's strike now while we can - don't obsess over a hypothetically perfect scenario in the future and throw away the good enough one which actually exists in the here and now.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 20 Sep 2022, 7:54 pm

88Chris05 wrote:I'm on the other side of the fence to you on this one, Truss.

I don't believe for a second that the fight is going to happen before Christmas - but if it does, I don't see why any Joshua fans would really be against it.

Is it really putting money over legacy? I'm not so sure. His legacy will be badly harmed if he never faces either of Wilder or Fury, and the window for those fights (certainly at least in terms of them being meaningful or mega fights) is getting smaller all the time. I think building a legacy has to include taking some risks, and most would applaud Joshua for not shying away from the Fury fight (if it's a legitimate opening) despite the going getting tough for him in recent times.

He'd be a relatively big underdog going into the fight, but if that disqualifies him and we applied that kind of thinking to all big fights, we'd have even fewer of them than we already have - and what we already have is precious little. Him beating Fury would be a surprise, but not exactly a cataclysmic shock. The way some people are talking it's as if they think Joshua's not even fit to share a ring with Fury these days. I'd imagine most would still consider him a top five Heavyweight in the world.

I get your point about the benefits of him going away, getting a couple of wins under his belt and maybe facing Fury further down the line...But as boxing fans we should really know that these plans to build (or rebuild) fights up and wait for the circumstances to be optimal very seldom work out.

The circumstances of the fight aren't perfect anymore and favour one guy over the other, sure...But who's to say that if either party puts it off again now the circumstances won't get even worse over time, rather than better? It's already lost some of its lustre from back in 2020 and 2021 when we heard two summers in a row that it was 'signed'. Despite that, it's still a legitimate and very lucrative fight and a considerable feather in the cap of whoever wins - especially if it's Joshua. I say let's strike now while we can - don't obsess over a hypothetically perfect scenario in the future and throw away the good enough one which actually exists in the here and now.

Perfectly valid response....But why handicap yourself ??. Fury is obsessing over a hypothetically perfect scenario and he has got one.....Joshua is still a name and he is getting him with the confidence at an alltime low and 60% of a huge pie...

Fury will always be interested in AJ and a bit of Hearn baiting "He retired because he is scared of AJ etc"..He's out of retirement like a shot...

Just don't think with 80m ruining his legacy by fighting at the wrong time is smart business..But opinions are opinions..


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Post by No name Bertie Tue 20 Sep 2022, 9:08 pm

Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 21 Sep 2022, 8:21 am

No name Bertie wrote:Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.

1. It's a cash grab...Means 4 million to his new trainer.

2. Coming off two losses against the 2nd best Heavy..Fighting the number 1 now

3 If he struggles coming forward against Usyk..How will he force himself against a bigger..taller..better puncher ??

4 Another story but why should he fight for the lineal title after two defeats in a row anyway ??

Disagree with you Bertie boy.. But that's okay.



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Post by Mr Bounce Wed 21 Sep 2022, 10:04 am

Why should he fight the #1 now? Let's see - number 2 is out for a bit due to injuries needing attention, and the next best guy has already been comprehensively beaten twice by #1.

So Fury does 1 of 3 things - he stays retired, he fights a nobody or he earns vast amounts of money fighting AJ. It was Fury and his people who invited AJ to fight him, not the other way round. Nobody on AJ's team had even considered this option. It's hardly a cash grab if the WBC champion gives him an unexpected shot at the title. If AJ thinks he has even a sniff of victory, he'd be a fool not to take the opportunity. And even if he has completely lost his mojo, he will at least have been in the fight that most UK heavyweight fans have been clamouring for for several years.

Plus if AJ had said no, he'd have been called a ducker - I doubt he'd want that.

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Post by Jeff Navarro Wed 21 Sep 2022, 11:05 am

I mean everyone was calling for the fight a couple of years ago. Sure Joshua got exposed and isn’t really as good as was made out. But it will be a decent event.
If Joshua takes it - wrong fight
If Joshua said no - he’s ducking
He can’t win either way…

As for money - it makes the world go around

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Post by kingraf Wed 21 Sep 2022, 12:22 pm

Long as AJ is talking about accepting 40% to fight Fury, I won't believe there are serious negotiations in place. I think AJ is just saying he'll accept 40% to not lose face and then the fight will through on small details. Lots of excuses to come up with. World Cup is gonna cost PPV buys, short camp, network challenges (DAZN won't be happy about two AJ fights in a row being broadcast elsewhere after he signed a 100m a year contract).

I just don't believe AJ or Hearn are earnestly going to give away at least 20 million "to make the fight happen"
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Post by No name Bertie Wed 21 Sep 2022, 12:45 pm

I hate it when you write a comment, you then post it, you find your internet connection is broken, and you lose the comment, and you don't have the time to reconstruct the comment.

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 21 Sep 2022, 1:07 pm

This is the uncut AJ reaction following the Usyk vs AJ II fight:



Announcement of result, AJ wanders around ring, talks to Usyk's manager, talks to Lomachenko (hat), gets a pat on the back, reacts angrily, shuffles up to Usyk, grabs two belts from him, Usyk looks peeved, AJ lifts the two belts up, says something inaudible, throws belts out of the ring, goes to his corner, his team try to restrain him, AJ angrily tries to push them away, gets out of the ring, walks away, returns, congratulates Usyk, grabs Usyks flag, demands the mike, Usyk grabs his flag back, AJ gives his speech, then leaves the ring.

Two things to explain:
a) throwing the belts out of the ring.
b) his speech.

a) Eddie Hearn later says this was AJ deciding to reject his past goal of chasing after the belts and holding on to the belts, rejecting the sanctioning bodies determining his schedule - in future he will chase fights rather than belts.
b) Acceptance of who he was as a professional boxer, not a 12-rounder, not a Marciano, he is big and strong and should have knocked Usyk the feck out, but Usyk has skills and it was only Usyks skills that won him the fight, he gives Usyk the plaudits, he talks about how he got into boxing and then leaves.

Now I think a) explains why AJ takes this opportunity to fight Tyson Fury.  AJs team would have preferred mid to late December but AJ accepts 3 December.   I think AJ is proving Eddie Hearns explanation was right - he is now going after the fights if and when they present themself to him.

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Post by Derek Smalls Thu 22 Sep 2022, 12:24 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.

It must be really hard on Joshua 's psyche to know that he doesn't even beat Usyk once out of ten; he told us that he wanted to show the Sweet Science after Ruiz rematch, as of he could simply bolt on being able to box instead of being a big old slugger.

Being able to stay on the outside for twelve rounds against a tub of lard -then gunshy against Pulev- and then he told us that he believed in his mind that he looked like Muhammad Ali . The re-match was 9-3 to Usyk as I saw it. Why do people like Gareth Davies and Spencer Oliver etc, prop him up with absolutely untrue narrative when he should be told the truth?

Yeah, he's got a punchers chance against Fury. Of course he has.But it's not being out of order to now admit that he was way over-rated, and honestly, his tantrums were occuring before his post fight tirade ( which revealed his paper -thin ego and pathetic reverting to "street" persona).

Should he lose to Fury, I don't want him to stick around fighting White and the second division -just take your pounds and retire.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 22 Sep 2022, 1:44 pm

Maybe I'm reading this fight all wrong but I'm surprised to see such support for AJ taking it.

Timing is all wrong... Confidence at an alltime low etc..Think him and Fury always sells so why gift Fury a win ??

But maybe you guys see something I don't. If he loses and wins a piece of pie after Usyk or Fury quit can't see it reviving his legacy.

But there you go..What do I know !!


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Post by Derek Smalls Thu 22 Sep 2022, 2:04 pm

Agreed, he will be shot to pieces mentally after another loss, and I dread to think what his valedictory speech will sound like then

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 22 Sep 2022, 2:23 pm

Derek Smalls wrote:Agreed, he will be shot to pieces mentally after another loss, and I dread to think what his valedictory speech will sound like then

One worries that being Hearn's one big ticket to the ball AJ will be egged on to keep going too long.

Especially if Eubank whips Benn.

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Post by No name Bertie Thu 22 Sep 2022, 3:03 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Timing is all wrong... Confidence at an alltime low etc..Think him and Fury always sells so why gift Fury a win ??

If you were in charge of heavyweight boxing, when would you have Tyson Fury fight AJ?



TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Maybe I'm reading this fight all wrong but I'm surprised to see such support for AJ taking it.
I think some believe if they don't fight "now" it may never happen at all. It has been argued by some that the Usyk fight didn't take too much out of AJ physically and they point to AJ's post fight behaviour - where he seemed to be expending a lot of energy - energy that he apparently didn't use up in the fight. Mentally and skills is another thing. However time is moving on and Chris suspected that the fight might be made when both fighters are well out of their prime, if at all.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 22 Sep 2022, 5:08 pm

Going to sound trite Bertie....But I think he should fight Fury when he is more ready..He loses when he is ready but he has more of a chance..He is up c**p alley without a compass in December.

I'm going to buy it...But the timing is all wrong.

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Post by No name Bertie Thu 22 Sep 2022, 6:06 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Going to sound trite Bertie....But I think he should fight Fury when he is more ready..He loses when he is ready but he has more of a chance..He is up c**p alley without a compass in December.

I'm going to buy it...But the timing is all wrong.
I am going to take that as August - November 2023.  Fury - Usyk is expected March 2023.  Tyson Fury should still be interested and AJ gets a small rest and has one or two tune-up fights.

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Post by Mochyn du Thu 22 Sep 2022, 8:05 pm

Weirdly enough Joshua still has an outside chance of greatness. I actually think that whilst Fury likely too big and awkward for Usyk, I think Joshua has a better chance with Fury. He's a far bigger target for Joshua to throw bombs at and whilst Fury is elusive I think the smaller, faster moving target of Usyk is always going to have a robot like Joshua in all kinds of a muddle.

Say if Joshua can get past Wilder and lands the jackpot with Fury who knows. It's a big ask though.


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Post by Mr Bounce Fri 23 Sep 2022, 9:21 pm

Fury drumming up ticket sales claiming Joshua won't take the fight...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/63004625

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Post by kingraf Sat 24 Sep 2022, 1:19 am

Supposedly the hold up is the network issue. No the hold up is the fight was literally never gonna happen in December, and I said as much weeks ago.
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Post by jimdig Sat 24 Sep 2022, 6:40 am

It is a cash grab, but not in the way you think. Better to fight Fury now than after he's defeated by Usyk. Fury is fleet of foot and hand against lumbering super heavyweights. But we all remember the problems the SS Cunningham gave Fury prior to being illegally forearmed into a KO position. Usyk is slicker faster, and won't get strong armed.

Joshua fighting Fury now is the biggest money fight he can make. Better to roll the dice on himself now, and get rich trying.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat 24 Sep 2022, 11:02 am

Fury is a better fighter now than he was against Cunningham...Cunninglham also weighed less than podgy Usyk.

Be staggered if Usyk beats Fury.

Fury easy night....

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