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Anthony Joshua - Money in a hurry over legacy !!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Sep 20, 2022 10:35 pm

Which is okay if you need the money....But this guy has many more paydays in him and is worth 80million already....

Fight doesn't make sense financially or legacy wise for AJ....Ruiz...Usyk x 2 and a stoppage off Fury means any chance at greatness is gone if he had any anyway.....As he has been struggling to get fighters out of there for a while I'd love to know how the big stiff beats Fury !!....40% of an unwinnable Fury fight is nothing compared to two warm ups....Probably an alphabet and then 50/50 v Fury....

Thing is AJ will always be a sellable quality outside Boxing commercially anyway......The less succesful Bruno was..

Throwing it away like this is silly......His new Trainers and Hearn are not advising him properly.....If he turned the fight down no one would mind as he has two losses consecutively...It reminds me of the Meldrick Taylor cash grab...

Thrown in against Terry Norris at too higher weight for money....Rushed in to a title fight with Espana straight after and then chucked at Chavez 2.

Silly billy stuff......But it is what it is. Anthony Joshua - Money in a hurry over legacy !! 3845856932




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Post by Oakdene Tue Sep 20, 2022 11:02 pm

Was listening to TalkSport earlier & the boxing expert that was on with Jim White & Simon Jordan, said that AJ has little chance of winning & certainly won't outbox Fury. He did say the only chance he has is if he is aggressive from the off & throws the kitchen sink at Fury.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 21, 2022 3:23 am

He is gunshy from Ruiz.....It's not his game sadly. If he wanted to beat Usyk he had to be aggressive and throw the kitchen sink...If he can't do that with with a Cruiser he isn't going to be so bold against a 260 pounder that is 3 inches taller.

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Post by 88Chris05 Wed Sep 21, 2022 4:47 am

I'm on the other side of the fence to you on this one, Truss.

I don't believe for a second that the fight is going to happen before Christmas - but if it does, I don't see why any Joshua fans would really be against it.

Is it really putting money over legacy? I'm not so sure. His legacy will be badly harmed if he never faces either of Wilder or Fury, and the window for those fights (certainly at least in terms of them being meaningful or mega fights) is getting smaller all the time. I think building a legacy has to include taking some risks, and most would applaud Joshua for not shying away from the Fury fight (if it's a legitimate opening) despite the going getting tough for him in recent times.

He'd be a relatively big underdog going into the fight, but if that disqualifies him and we applied that kind of thinking to all big fights, we'd have even fewer of them than we already have - and what we already have is precious little. Him beating Fury would be a surprise, but not exactly a cataclysmic shock. The way some people are talking it's as if they think Joshua's not even fit to share a ring with Fury these days. I'd imagine most would still consider him a top five Heavyweight in the world.

I get your point about the benefits of him going away, getting a couple of wins under his belt and maybe facing Fury further down the line...But as boxing fans we should really know that these plans to build (or rebuild) fights up and wait for the circumstances to be optimal very seldom work out.

The circumstances of the fight aren't perfect anymore and favour one guy over the other, sure...But who's to say that if either party puts it off again now the circumstances won't get even worse over time, rather than better? It's already lost some of its lustre from back in 2020 and 2021 when we heard two summers in a row that it was 'signed'. Despite that, it's still a legitimate and very lucrative fight and a considerable feather in the cap of whoever wins - especially if it's Joshua. I say let's strike now while we can - don't obsess over a hypothetically perfect scenario in the future and throw away the good enough one which actually exists in the here and now.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 21, 2022 5:54 am

88Chris05 wrote:I'm on the other side of the fence to you on this one, Truss.

I don't believe for a second that the fight is going to happen before Christmas - but if it does, I don't see why any Joshua fans would really be against it.

Is it really putting money over legacy? I'm not so sure. His legacy will be badly harmed if he never faces either of Wilder or Fury, and the window for those fights (certainly at least in terms of them being meaningful or mega fights) is getting smaller all the time. I think building a legacy has to include taking some risks, and most would applaud Joshua for not shying away from the Fury fight (if it's a legitimate opening) despite the going getting tough for him in recent times.

He'd be a relatively big underdog going into the fight, but if that disqualifies him and we applied that kind of thinking to all big fights, we'd have even fewer of them than we already have - and what we already have is precious little. Him beating Fury would be a surprise, but not exactly a cataclysmic shock. The way some people are talking it's as if they think Joshua's not even fit to share a ring with Fury these days. I'd imagine most would still consider him a top five Heavyweight in the world.

I get your point about the benefits of him going away, getting a couple of wins under his belt and maybe facing Fury further down the line...But as boxing fans we should really know that these plans to build (or rebuild) fights up and wait for the circumstances to be optimal very seldom work out.

The circumstances of the fight aren't perfect anymore and favour one guy over the other, sure...But who's to say that if either party puts it off again now the circumstances won't get even worse over time, rather than better? It's already lost some of its lustre from back in 2020 and 2021 when we heard two summers in a row that it was 'signed'. Despite that, it's still a legitimate and very lucrative fight and a considerable feather in the cap of whoever wins - especially if it's Joshua. I say let's strike now while we can - don't obsess over a hypothetically perfect scenario in the future and throw away the good enough one which actually exists in the here and now.

Perfectly valid response....But why handicap yourself ??. Fury is obsessing over a hypothetically perfect scenario and he has got one.....Joshua is still a name and he is getting him with the confidence at an alltime low and 60% of a huge pie...

Fury will always be interested in AJ and a bit of Hearn baiting "He retired because he is scared of AJ etc"..He's out of retirement like a shot...

Just don't think with 80m ruining his legacy by fighting at the wrong time is smart business..But opinions are opinions..


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Post by No name Bertie Wed Sep 21, 2022 7:08 am

Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Wed Sep 21, 2022 6:21 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.

1. It's a cash grab...Means 4 million to his new trainer.

2. Coming off two losses against the 2nd best Heavy..Fighting the number 1 now

3 If he struggles coming forward against Usyk..How will he force himself against a bigger..taller..better puncher ??

4 Another story but why should he fight for the lineal title after two defeats in a row anyway ??

Disagree with you Bertie boy.. But that's okay.



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Post by Mr Bounce Wed Sep 21, 2022 8:04 pm

Why should he fight the #1 now? Let's see - number 2 is out for a bit due to injuries needing attention, and the next best guy has already been comprehensively beaten twice by #1.

So Fury does 1 of 3 things - he stays retired, he fights a nobody or he earns vast amounts of money fighting AJ. It was Fury and his people who invited AJ to fight him, not the other way round. Nobody on AJ's team had even considered this option. It's hardly a cash grab if the WBC champion gives him an unexpected shot at the title. If AJ thinks he has even a sniff of victory, he'd be a fool not to take the opportunity. And even if he has completely lost his mojo, he will at least have been in the fight that most UK heavyweight fans have been clamouring for for several years.

Plus if AJ had said no, he'd have been called a ducker - I doubt he'd want that.

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Post by Guest Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:05 pm

I mean everyone was calling for the fight a couple of years ago. Sure Joshua got exposed and isn’t really as good as was made out. But it will be a decent event.
If Joshua takes it - wrong fight
If Joshua said no - he’s ducking
He can’t win either way…

As for money - it makes the world go around

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Post by kingraf Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:22 pm

Long as AJ is talking about accepting 40% to fight Fury, I won't believe there are serious negotiations in place. I think AJ is just saying he'll accept 40% to not lose face and then the fight will through on small details. Lots of excuses to come up with. World Cup is gonna cost PPV buys, short camp, network challenges (DAZN won't be happy about two AJ fights in a row being broadcast elsewhere after he signed a 100m a year contract).

I just don't believe AJ or Hearn are earnestly going to give away at least 20 million "to make the fight happen"
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Post by No name Bertie Wed Sep 21, 2022 10:45 pm

I hate it when you write a comment, you then post it, you find your internet connection is broken, and you lose the comment, and you don't have the time to reconstruct the comment.
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Post by No name Bertie Wed Sep 21, 2022 11:07 pm

This is the uncut AJ reaction following the Usyk vs AJ II fight:



Announcement of result, AJ wanders around ring, talks to Usyk's manager, talks to Lomachenko (hat), gets a pat on the back, reacts angrily, shuffles up to Usyk, grabs two belts from him, Usyk looks peeved, AJ lifts the two belts up, says something inaudible, throws belts out of the ring, goes to his corner, his team try to restrain him, AJ angrily tries to push them away, gets out of the ring, walks away, returns, congratulates Usyk, grabs Usyks flag, demands the mike, Usyk grabs his flag back, AJ gives his speech, then leaves the ring.

Two things to explain:
a) throwing the belts out of the ring.
b) his speech.

a) Eddie Hearn later says this was AJ deciding to reject his past goal of chasing after the belts and holding on to the belts, rejecting the sanctioning bodies determining his schedule - in future he will chase fights rather than belts.
b) Acceptance of who he was as a professional boxer, not a 12-rounder, not a Marciano, he is big and strong and should have knocked Usyk the feck out, but Usyk has skills and it was only Usyks skills that won him the fight, he gives Usyk the plaudits, he talks about how he got into boxing and then leaves.

Now I think a) explains why AJ takes this opportunity to fight Tyson Fury.  AJs team would have preferred mid to late December but AJ accepts 3 December.   I think AJ is proving Eddie Hearns explanation was right - he is now going after the fights if and when they present themself to him.
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Post by Derek Smalls Thu Sep 22, 2022 10:24 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Styles make fights .... AJ was outboxed by Usyk but wasn't made to look stupid - but it was disappointing.   He does have a vulnerability and Ruiz got to him in the first fight and stopped him.  AJ boxed completely differently to win the rematch (stick and move).  It had looked like AJ had improved but Usyk was just too skilful and was able to avoid or lessen the power shots of AJ.  Credit to AJ for taking the fight against Fury.  I still think Tyson Fury doesn't plan to stick around for too long, while it looks like AJ might stick around for another 5 years.

It must be really hard on Joshua 's psyche to know that he doesn't even beat Usyk once out of ten; he told us that he wanted to show the Sweet Science after Ruiz rematch, as of he could simply bolt on being able to box instead of being a big old slugger.

Being able to stay on the outside for twelve rounds against a tub of lard -then gunshy against Pulev- and then he told us that he believed in his mind that he looked like Muhammad Ali . The re-match was 9-3 to Usyk as I saw it. Why do people like Gareth Davies and Spencer Oliver etc, prop him up with absolutely untrue narrative when he should be told the truth?

Yeah, he's got a punchers chance against Fury. Of course he has.But it's not being out of order to now admit that he was way over-rated, and honestly, his tantrums were occuring before his post fight tirade ( which revealed his paper -thin ego and pathetic reverting to "street" persona).

Should he lose to Fury, I don't want him to stick around fighting White and the second division -just take your pounds and retire.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Sep 22, 2022 11:44 pm

Maybe I'm reading this fight all wrong but I'm surprised to see such support for AJ taking it.

Timing is all wrong... Confidence at an alltime low etc..Think him and Fury always sells so why gift Fury a win ??

But maybe you guys see something I don't. If he loses and wins a piece of pie after Usyk or Fury quit can't see it reviving his legacy.

But there you go..What do I know !!


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Post by Derek Smalls Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:04 am

Agreed, he will be shot to pieces mentally after another loss, and I dread to think what his valedictory speech will sound like then
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:23 am

Derek Smalls wrote:Agreed, he will be shot to pieces mentally after another loss, and I dread to think what his valedictory speech will sound like then

One worries that being Hearn's one big ticket to the ball AJ will be egged on to keep going too long.

Especially if Eubank whips Benn.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri Sep 23, 2022 1:03 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Timing is all wrong... Confidence at an alltime low etc..Think him and Fury always sells so why gift Fury a win ??

If you were in charge of heavyweight boxing, when would you have Tyson Fury fight AJ?



TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Maybe I'm reading this fight all wrong but I'm surprised to see such support for AJ taking it.
I think some believe if they don't fight "now" it may never happen at all. It has been argued by some that the Usyk fight didn't take too much out of AJ physically and they point to AJ's post fight behaviour - where he seemed to be expending a lot of energy - energy that he apparently didn't use up in the fight. Mentally and skills is another thing. However time is moving on and Chris suspected that the fight might be made when both fighters are well out of their prime, if at all.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri Sep 23, 2022 3:08 am

Going to sound trite Bertie....But I think he should fight Fury when he is more ready..He loses when he is ready but he has more of a chance..He is up c**p alley without a compass in December.

I'm going to buy it...But the timing is all wrong.

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Post by No name Bertie Fri Sep 23, 2022 4:06 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Going to sound trite Bertie....But I think he should fight Fury when he is more ready..He loses when he is ready but he has more of a chance..He is up c**p alley without a compass in December.

I'm going to buy it...But the timing is all wrong.
I am going to take that as August - November 2023.  Fury - Usyk is expected March 2023.  Tyson Fury should still be interested and AJ gets a small rest and has one or two tune-up fights.
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Post by Mochyn du Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:05 am

Weirdly enough Joshua still has an outside chance of greatness. I actually think that whilst Fury likely too big and awkward for Usyk, I think Joshua has a better chance with Fury. He's a far bigger target for Joshua to throw bombs at and whilst Fury is elusive I think the smaller, faster moving target of Usyk is always going to have a robot like Joshua in all kinds of a muddle.

Say if Joshua can get past Wilder and lands the jackpot with Fury who knows. It's a big ask though.


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Post by Mr Bounce Sat Sep 24, 2022 7:21 am

Fury drumming up ticket sales claiming Joshua won't take the fight...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/63004625

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Post by kingraf Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:19 am

Supposedly the hold up is the network issue. No the hold up is the fight was literally never gonna happen in December, and I said as much weeks ago.
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Post by jimdig Sat Sep 24, 2022 4:40 pm

It is a cash grab, but not in the way you think. Better to fight Fury now than after he's defeated by Usyk. Fury is fleet of foot and hand against lumbering super heavyweights. But we all remember the problems the SS Cunningham gave Fury prior to being illegally forearmed into a KO position. Usyk is slicker faster, and won't get strong armed.

Joshua fighting Fury now is the biggest money fight he can make. Better to roll the dice on himself now, and get rich trying.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sat Sep 24, 2022 9:02 pm

Fury is a better fighter now than he was against Cunningham...Cunninglham also weighed less than podgy Usyk.

Be staggered if Usyk beats Fury.

Fury easy night....

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Post by Mochyn du Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:15 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fury is a better fighter now than he was against Cunningham...Cunninglham also weighed less than podgy Usyk.

Be staggered if Usyk beats Fury.

Fury easy night....

Bizarrely I think Joshua has a better chance with Fury than Usyk does. I'm going to go out on a limb and go for Joshua to beat Fury. Styles make fights. Fury a far bigger target and Joshua has better fundamentals than Wilder. Still not convinced by Fury who has beaten a 40 year old who many didn't rate to begin with and the same crude slugger over and over again. Inactivity could be bad for him.


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Post by Mr Bounce Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:50 am

I don't actually think that Fury had any intention of facing Joshua - just drumming up lots of interest before pulling out himself and putting the blame on others. He knew that legal issues would likely hold it all up so his "imposed deadline" was an easy get out clause for him.

Now he gets to look "impressive" against a 37 year-old never was who hasn't fought at the top level since Vitali was WBC champ. Pathetic.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:55 am

It could have been signed. Fury is not in charge of contract negotiations - he just told Frank Warren to sort it out - gave AJ a chance - there was some sort of negotiation - then Fury gave a final deadline - and then that's it (apparently).

There is no point wasting our time speculating whether it was all a hoax. I think in future I am going to ignore everything until contracts are signed. There is just too much cowpat noise and not enough fighting.

Tyson Fury is "nuts" but I think genuine. We know he is not particularly committed to legacy (not interested in defending his belt(s)) and is a law unto himself. He may have mental issues but it is the apparent lack of professionalism that puts me off of him.
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Post by Mr Bounce Tue Sep 27, 2022 6:35 pm

He is very much the casual fans' heavyweight, the tabloid reader wh support those who win then drop them like a stone when they lose.

I think this is a miscalculation by Fury and he might lose a few followers after this, especially if his next opponent is the unranked Charr.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:05 pm

Joshua has actually come out of this well...All this garbage has made people forget Usyk . Fury's silly behaviour has put AJ on an undeserved even standing with him..

AJ can now get his confidence back and wait for a vacant belt. Then get 50/50

Fair play to team Hearn played it perfectly.

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Post by Duty281 Tue Sep 27, 2022 8:32 pm

Mochyn du wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fury is a better fighter now than he was against Cunningham...Cunninglham also weighed less than podgy Usyk.

Be staggered if Usyk beats Fury.

Fury easy night....

Bizarrely I think Joshua has a better chance with Fury than Usyk does.  I'm going to go out on a limb and go for Joshua to beat Fury.  Styles make fights.  Fury a far bigger target and Joshua has better fundamentals than Wilder.  Still not convinced by Fury who has beaten a 40 year old who many didn't rate to begin with and the same crude slugger over and over again.  Inactivity could be bad for him.


I think so too, and it's not that bizarre. Neither Joshua or Uysk are good enough to outbox Fury and win on points. The only way to win is by KO - Joshua has that potential KO power and Uysk simply doesn't. Of course Wilder couldn't KO Fury in three fights so it's highly unlikely Joshua could, but not impossible.

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Post by Soul Requiem Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Mochyn du wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Fury is a better fighter now than he was against Cunningham...Cunninglham also weighed less than podgy Usyk.

Be staggered if Usyk beats Fury.

Fury easy night....

Bizarrely I think Joshua has a better chance with Fury than Usyk does.  I'm going to go out on a limb and go for Joshua to beat Fury.  Styles make fights.  Fury a far bigger target and Joshua has better fundamentals than Wilder.  Still not convinced by Fury who has beaten a 40 year old who many didn't rate to begin with and the same crude slugger over and over again.  Inactivity could be bad for him.


I think so too, and it's not that bizarre. Neither Joshua or Uysk are good enough to outbox Fury and win on points. The only way to win is by KO - Joshua has that potential KO power and Uysk simply doesn't. Of course Wilder couldn't KO Fury in three fights so it's highly unlikely Joshua could, but not impossible.

AJ punches straighter than Wilder so if the latter is landing with wide hayemakes then no reason to believe you won't land consistently straight down the pipe. Wilder hits hard but I don't think he's the gargantuan puncher he's made out to be.

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Post by Guest Tue Sep 27, 2022 9:33 pm

Whyte throws his name into the hat for a rematch with Joshua, after the assumed collapse of Fury-Joshua.

I’d still watch Joshua-Whyte 2 tbh

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Post by No name Bertie Tue Sep 27, 2022 11:36 pm

Frank Warren was on TalkSport.  He kept saying that he thought he would be able to finalise the deal if given a few more days but said that it looked like Fury was going to move on if the contract wasn't signed on the deadline Fury had given.  It was clear that it was Fury calling the shots and Frank Warren was his employee in this matter.  

Warren then talked about Joe Joyce (WBO) and Daniel Dubois (WBA) both being mandatories for a heavyweight world title challenge and that after the Fury-Usyk fight he will still have them in his stable as well as Fury.  If Fury wins against Usyk then he will have to face one of them if Fury doesn't retire.  

He also said that if the current proposed AJ - Fury fight didn't get done, then AJ will have to work his way into being a mandatory before getting a title shot.   Against Ruiz and Usyk AJ had rematch clauses so he didn't need to work his way back into being a mandatory before getting the opportunity to challenge for the belts again.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu Sep 29, 2022 9:38 pm

Fury trying to save face by extending the deadline.

That horse has bolted.

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