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10 Team Prem

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Recwatcher16
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 11 Jan 2023, 10:03 am

This from the BBC, not a great surprise that clubs aren't against a smaller league as long it's them in the top flight. Has the potential to focus some minds around finance in the second tier. Have to laugh that Leicester are all about the salary cap being manageable!:

'A 10-team Premiership with a reduced salary cap is being discussed by clubs, says Leicester Tigers chief executive Andrea Pinchen.

The financial demise of Wasps and Worcester has prompted their rivals to look at the league's overall health.

A further reduction of clubs from the 11 that remain and sticking to the £5m salary cap, which is to rise to £6.4m, are being debated by club chiefs.

"There is no big secret about it," Pinchen said.

"All the CEO's of the Premiership clubs are on a WhatsApp group. Everyone just says what they think.

"Everyone is like 'yeah, we agree that 10 is the way to go, as long as it's not me'.

"How that will work when we are sitting at 11 teams, I don't know?

"There is no hidden agenda. They want what is right for the sport."

Rob Baxter, Exeter's Premiership and European Champions Cup-winning director of rugby, has previously said a 10-team Premiership could be the best way to ensure England's top tier thrives in the future.

Pinchen said increased investment in the second-tier Championship "would have to be looked at" if the make-up of the Premiership was to be changed.

'Cap increase not right for league'
The size of the salary cap in a league in which clubs have reportedly amassed combined debts of £300m over the past six years has split opinions among owners and officials.

Clubs had unanimously agreed to cut the salary cap by £1.4m, to £5m, in the summer of 2020 in response to the finance fallout of the coronavirus pandemic.

The cap is set to return to £6.4m in 2024.

However, the limit to spending that clubs are working towards at the moment is having an impact, with Exeter's England winger Jack Nowell the latest star to be linked with a lucrative move away because the Devon side are struggling to offer him an acceptable deal.

Pinchen says Premiership title holders Leicester - who were last season punished for historical spending breaches - are "fundamentally" against the rise, but says they will spend up to the limit to remain competitive.

She adds that it is something that needs to be "re-looked at".

"Can I understand a very wealthy club wanting to get that stardust sprinkled in, as they see it, and increase the cap? Yes, I can," Pinchen said.

"Personally I don't think that is right for the game as we sit here now today.

"In any industry, if you looked across the board and everyone was losing a lot of money and had lots of debt to pay back, and you were then increasing the ability to spend - and that everyone will feel a certain pressure to spend if you want to remain competitive and recruit people who want to win and make you successful - then people would look at you as if there was something slightly wrong."

While Pinchen says that all clubs do not agree on the cap, she adds they are all "more aligned now" after enduring a difficult period through Covid together.

During the pandemic clubs took on loans from the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) to help them stay afloat.

Both Worcester and Wasps went into administration with those debts failing to be met, while Exeter Chiefs sold a stake in a hotel it owns to help pay it off.

Tigers' first repayment is due in March, with Pinchen saying payments have "been mapped out" by the club.

She says sustainability is something Tigers - who reported an operating loss of £1.9m for last season - are working towards and says fresh investment would be welcome.

The club had been put up for sale in June 2019, but a lack of suitable investors saw the process ended after less than a year.

"You have to be open to look at whatever opportunities are out there," she said.

"If it is right for the club, then fine and we will look at it and start to dig a little bit deeper, but that is the critical thing - it has to be right for the club long term."'

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Post by mountain man Wed 11 Jan 2023, 10:41 am

So how they going to decide who the 10 teams are, by relegation?

I also think players need to be realistic with salary demands, this isn't Premiership wendyball with billions of quid floating around.

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Post by doctor_grey Wed 11 Jan 2023, 11:13 am

mountain man wrote:So how they going to decide who the 10 teams are, by relegation?

I also think players need to be realistic with salary demands, this isn't Premiership wendyball with billions of quid floating around.
it's probably gong to be like one of those silly tv shows - vote someone off Premiership Island.  I think reducing the teams and cap and turning our backs on growth seems a little, well, Little England-ish.  Fully understand the financial issues at stake.  Heck, I remember previous discussions years a go where it looked to me the Premiership was becoming increasingly financially shaky.  Rather than vote someone out, I think the financially weaker teams may need to sell to people or groups who van support growth and handle the current financial challenges.  We will find out how truly marketable the Premiership actually is.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Wed 11 Jan 2023, 12:14 pm

I presume the 'transition' period will be whatever length of time it takes Wasps to get back in the door before it gets welded shut?

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Post by Recwatcher16 Wed 11 Jan 2023, 1:47 pm

Due to fixture congestion, this has been a long time coming and there is no indication of removing relegation, despite sarcastic comments from some.

The longterm Premiership revenue model remains sound as long as equivalent TV deals continue to come through. It was stated a long time ago by the PRL that euro competition finances were the cherry on top rather than a prerequisite for survival but the loss of two years revenue has put back the timetable. The French model with strong professional second tier league has to be the aim.

A Premiership with only eighteen games a season will probably reduce injury rates to some degree, which will enable both the League and England to raise competitiveness further with fewer players missing for selection. I certainly don't see the RFU objecting.

When the championship becomes more competitive with three ex- PRL teams plus the current league leader, that will become a much more interesting league and should be on FTA tv pronto. I would love to see a FA cup knockout style competition then become established and ditch the euro competitions for a while and save money on flights to SA. We already have an established euro competition, the 6Ns.

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Post by mountain man Wed 11 Jan 2023, 1:52 pm

this has been a long time coming and there is no indication of removing relegation, despite sarcastic comments from some.

Don't know if this was aimed at me but I wasn't being sarcastic. My question is totally serious, how are they going to decide on the 10 teams.

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Post by Recwatcher16 Wed 11 Jan 2023, 1:57 pm

mountain man wrote:
this has been a long time coming and there is no indication of removing relegation, despite sarcastic comments from some.

Don't know if this was aimed at me but I wasn't being sarcastic. My question is totally serious, how are they going to decide on the 10 teams.

It wasn't. Relegation is the only option and it could be my team, the way things are going.....

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Post by Irish Londoner Thu 12 Jan 2023, 9:05 am

I don't suppose in all their deliberations any of the Premiership clubs thought to ask whether the Championship was OK about absorbing another Premiership club or possibly two if they have relegation as well dropped on them along with Wasps and Worcester, therefore increasing the Championship by four clubs overnight?

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Post by Heaf Thu 12 Jan 2023, 11:05 am

I haven't given this a great deal of thought but I'm not quite clear how getting rid of one club improves the sustainability of the premiership and if it's about number of fixtures just bin the Prem Cup.

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Post by Welshmushroom Thu 12 Jan 2023, 11:41 am

I wonder if this in part is to combat the Season 24/25 changes to overseas policy changing in line with the Post Brexit Rules. Given Kolpak ruling no longer applies in the UK and EU players are also considered as overseas players it will be difficult for Premiership sides from that point as they will be restricted to 2 match day players per 23 roster.

Now granted there are already a few who have qualified under residency grounds but there will be a limit to essentially overseas players. It might explain why there is an uptick on Scottish and Welsh internationals for Premiership Clubs as I assume they will not be classed as overseas players.

Haven't heard of the PRL going back on this change so I am assuming some clubs will have to have major overhauls after the next season.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Mon 16 Jan 2023, 6:32 am

It's obviously ideal to have sides in different parts of the country so perhaps we could see an amalgamation of two sides relatively close to each other?

Leicester Tigers & Northampton Saints.........East Midland Pork Pies/cheese eaters? (Tigers pack with Saints backs.....tasty!)

Bath & Bristol.........West Country Cider Boys?

Irish & Harlequins..........West London (I can't think of anything)

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Post by Heaf Mon 16 Jan 2023, 5:00 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It's obviously ideal to have sides in different parts of the country so perhaps we could see an amalgamation of two sides relatively close to each other?  

Leicester Tigers & Northampton Saints.........East Midland Pork Pies/cheese eaters? (Tigers pack with Saints backs.....tasty!)

Bath & Bristol.........West Country Cider Boys?

Irish & Harlequins..........West London (I can't think of anything)


Black Velvet Boys?

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