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Premiership Round 19 - This time It's For Real

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king_carlos
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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 13:41

Today:
Bristol - Saints

Tomorrow:
Leicester - Bath
Quins - Exeter

The Next Day:
Falcons - London Irish
Sale - Saracens

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Post by Geordie Fri Mar 03 2023, 14:33

Newcastle Falcons team v London Irish (Sunday, 3pm, Kingston Park)

15 Alex Tait, 14 Adam Radwan, 13 Matias Moroni, 12 Matias Orlando, 11 Mateo Carreras, 10 Brett Connon, 9 Michael Young (captain); 1 Adam Brocklebank, 2 Jamie Blamire, 3 Trevor Davison, 4 Matthew Dalton, 5 Sebastian de Chaves, 6 Pedro Rubiolo, 7 Callum Chick, 8 Carl Fearns.

Replacements: 16 Ollie Fletcher, 17 Logovi’i Mulipola, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 Freddie Lockwood, 20 Tom Marshall, 21 Sam Stuart, 22 Tian Schoeman, 23 Pete Lucock.

Not available for selection: Phil Brantingham, Sam Clark, Connor Collett, Gary Graham, Ewan Greenlaw, Nathan Greenwood, Zach Kerr, Charlie Maddison, Tom Penny, Guy Pepper, Josh Peters, Greg Peterson, Vereimi Qorowale, Sean Robinson, Oliver Spencer, Philip van der Walt, George Wacokecoke, Will Welch.

Referee: Christophe Ridley.

London Irish:
15 Ben Loader, 14 Lucio Cinti, 13 Will Joseph, 12 Benhard van Rensburg, 11 Ollie Hassell-Collins, 10 Paddy Jackson, 9 Ben White, 1 Danilo Fischetti, 2 Agustin Creevy, 3 Oliver Hoskins, 4 Api Ratuniyarawa, 5 Rob Simmons (c), 6 Josh Basham, 7 Tom Pearson, 8 Chandler Cunningham-South.

Replacements:
16 Matt Cornish, 17 Facundo Gigena, 18 Lovejoy Chawatama, 19 Josh Caulfield, 20 Matt Rogerson, 21 Hugh O’Sullivan, 22 Luca Morisi, 23 James Stokes.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Mar 03 2023, 18:59

STARTING XV
15 Mike Brown [2]
14 Harry Potter [59]
13 Matt Scott [60]
12 Jimmy Gopperth [11]
11 Harry Simmons [31]
10 Handré Pollard [7]
9 Ben Youngs [296]
1 Tom West [3]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [36]
3 Joe Heyes [116]
4 George Martin [51]
5 Cameron Henderson [29]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [77]
7 Tommy Reffell [93]
8 Jasper Wiese [53]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [71]
17 Francois van Wyk [28]
18 Will Hurd [21]
19 Harry Wells [173]
20 Olly Cracknell [17]
21 Tom Whiteley [1]
22 Charlie Atkinson [12]
23 Guy Porter [54]

Bath Rugby: 15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Ruaridh McConnochie, 13 Jonathan Joseph, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Matt Gallagher, 10 Orlando Bailey, 9 Ben Spencer ©; 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Josh McNally, 5 GJ van Velze, 6 Fergus Lee-Warner, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Jaco Coetzee

Impact players: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 D’Arcy Rae, 19 Miles Reid, 20 Alfie Barbeary, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Max Ojomoh, 23 Chris Cloete

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Post by king_carlos Fri Mar 03 2023, 19:33

It's not often that Bath get that first choice front row out together! It will be a good battle with Tigers missing Cronin and Cole but still really strong in the front row with West a cracking signing and Heyes very experienced for a young TH.

It's great to see Porter back on the bench for Tigers. He adds so much. Missing him and Kelly simultaneously are massive blows.

Really happy that Simmons has got another chance too. He's impressed in his games this season.

Great to see Barbeary too.

On paper those look like well balanced line-ups to me. It should be a good game though if Tigers are to make the playoffs it's the sort they need to be winning at home. The battle for 3rd and 4th places looks like it will be very tight.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 20:30

Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 21:01

doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 21:26

doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 21:40

doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???
Watching this is like being hooked up to electroshock therapy again. FFS.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri Mar 03 2023, 22:24

doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???
Watching this is like being hooked up to electroshock therapy again.  FFS.

laughing

Tough evening for Northampton. I'm sure that's a quiet and uncomfortable coach ride back to back end of the East Midlands.

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Post by Heaf Fri Mar 03 2023, 22:46

OUCH

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Post by doctor_grey Fri Mar 03 2023, 22:57

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???
Watching this is like being hooked up to electroshock therapy again.  FFS.

laughing

Tough evening for Northampton. I'm sure that's a quiet and uncomfortable coach ride back to back end of the East Midlands.
After a display like that, they get a coach ride back home?  No wonder they are soft. Make 'em walk.  Barefoot.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Mar 04 2023, 09:17

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???
Watching this is like being hooked up to electroshock therapy again.  FFS.

laughing

Tough evening for Northampton. I'm sure that's a quiet and uncomfortable coach ride back to back end of the East Midlands.
After a display like that, they get a coach ride back home?  No wonder they are soft.  Make 'em walk.  Barefoot.

It's uncomfortable because Dowson is making them push the coach all the way.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Mar 04 2023, 11:22

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Bloody hell, this is embarrassing.  

Can anyone here play this game?????
Obvious answer is not in Northampton
Could this game please f*cking end already???
Watching this is like being hooked up to electroshock therapy again.  FFS.

laughing

Tough evening for Northampton. I'm sure that's a quiet and uncomfortable coach ride back to back end of the East Midlands.
After a display like that, they get a coach ride back home?  No wonder they are soft.  Make 'em walk.  Barefoot.

It's uncomfortable because Dowson is making them push the coach all the way.
Excellent.  Good on him.  Best coaching decision he made all season!

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-people-pushing-a-bus-on-a-muddy-road-on-the-way-to-dhunche-nepal-langtang-76084217.html?imageid=031FEE06-2B3A-4EDC-9233-75B960B92F76&p=1142584&pn=1&searchId=706d803f4bea114b065e436468d96db6&searchtype=0

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Post by Heaf Sat Mar 04 2023, 17:05

Looks like Bath continue to underperform given the players they have ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Mar 04 2023, 17:38

Heaf wrote:Looks like Bath continue to underperform given the players they have ...

They were not good. So much talent and yet so little product. Barbeary looked very good in the 15 mins he managed between coming on for a HIA and then leaving with a knee injury. Whichever halfwit on the Bath medical team who decided some tape and magic spray would allow him to run it off needs a stern word. Poor bloke managed about five jogged steps before he could manage no more. Ridiculous.

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Post by Heaf Sat Mar 04 2023, 18:10

Quins giving Chiefs a good going over at the moment - will need some comeback for Chiefs to turn this around ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat Mar 04 2023, 19:06

That's a law I didn't know. If you're accidentally offside you can have a penalty given against you but not a pen try....going to have to read up on that.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat Mar 04 2023, 19:14

Heaf wrote:Looks like Bath continue to underperform given the players they have ...
It's all about the consistency in their performances. And they seem to have that down pretty well.

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Post by Heaf Sat Mar 04 2023, 19:34

No 7&1/2 wrote:That's a law I didn't know. If you're accidentally offside you can have a penalty given against you but not a pen try....going to have to read up on that.

Yep I was dubious about that one ...

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Post by Heaf Sat Mar 04 2023, 19:35

Well so far I expected 3 close matches - didn't quite work out like that ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat Mar 04 2023, 20:13

Heaf wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:That's a law I didn't know. If you're accidentally offside you can have a penalty given against you but not a pen try....going to have to read up on that.

Yep I was dubious about that one ...

Felt like ref thought it was a soft penalty as only half of Woodburn's foot was over the line when the pass was made. Penalty try and yellow card for misjudging where your foot was by six inches in a game that was already over?

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Post by Heaf Sat Mar 04 2023, 22:35

Didn't make any difference to the game but I was more interested in whether the interpretation followed the actual laws - in another game it could change the result - I guess if not considered deliberate it wouldn't be deemed foul play, which I suspect is needed for a PT?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Mar 05 2023, 07:08

I do think the ref didn't want to rub any more salt in the wound and get some want the refs to have a feel for the game but also I was just really surprised by it. Looked it up so...

'Penalty try: Awarded when, in the opinion of the referee, a try probably would have been scored (or scored in a more advantageous position) if not for an act of foul play by an opponent.'

OK...so 'Foul play: Anything a player does within the playing enclosure that is contrary to Law 9 governing obstruction, unfair play, repeated infringements, dangerous play and misconduct.'

And then law 9. As the ref said there's alot of the word intentional here but the important thing for me is this one: '
An offside player must not intentionally obstruct an opponent or interfere with play.'


So where I think he's right is that you can argue that Woodburn isn't intentionally offside not sure you can with a straight face say he hasn't intentionally interfered in play while being offside.

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Post by Heaf Sun Mar 05 2023, 12:09

Yep interesting - following the wording strictly you'd first say was he offside? - yes - and did he interfere with play? - yes .... but you can see how the ref interpreted it.

The problem for me is if a player stops a try with an illegal act then why should the attacking team not get the benefit whether it was deliberate or not?

I think it would be fairer if the try was given either way, but a YC only given if it was a deliberate act.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Mar 05 2023, 13:09

I keep going back to I think the ref was being kind, but he's got this wrong. I accept the game is already well won etc but he's gone well off piste in deciding his own laws here.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun Mar 05 2023, 14:56

No 7&1/2 wrote:I keep going back to I think the ref was being kind, but he's got this wrong. I accept the game is already well won etc but he's gone well off piste in deciding his own laws here.

Well technically he hasn't. Law 6.5.a The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match.

He doesn't believe it to be a deliberate act of foul play so it's only a penalty. He's not made up the law he's applied it in a relaxed way. It's not particularly unusual to see different interpretations from officials, see any high tackle for an example of that.

Heaf, if you award a penalty try and can identify the player responsible then you have to yellow card them. Hence why Carley probably didn't think it was fair to award a penalty try.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Mar 05 2023, 15:22

Yeah. I have a hard time believing he didn't think he'd intercepted deliberately.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Mar 05 2023, 15:32

Sale just about waking up.

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Post by Cumbrian Sun Mar 05 2023, 15:44

They're talking Theo Dan up a lot, and I like what I've seen of him this season, but I have a nagging doubt that he might be a bit too small for international rugby.
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun Mar 05 2023, 16:22

Complete turnaround now.

Hill does brilliantly keeping that.

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Post by king_carlos Sun Mar 05 2023, 16:27

Cumbrian wrote:They're talking Theo Dan up a lot, and I like what I've seen of him this season, but I have a nagging doubt that he might be a bit too small for international rugby.
I get what you mean to an extent there Cumbrian. I'd say he's in the McGuigan bracket of if he's actually the height and weight listed I'd be amazed!

That said Mbonambi is very short and one of the best set-piece hookers going. He's also so broad he's basically square though. Dan has plenty of time to keep filling out and get stronger. I've been really impressed with what I've seen from him this season.

I'd say the best three hookers around are Marx, Montoya and Marchand. Interesting that they are very different body shapes. Marx basically a block of muscle, Montoya has a bit of a tyre at times but is dynamite in the loose and Marchand is a bit smaller but electric. After those two I'd probably take Mbonambi and Taukei'aho who are different body types again. It is a position where there's still a lot of variety in types of athletes we see.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun Mar 05 2023, 16:45

Have to admit, Newcastle-LI was pretty entertaining.

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Post by Heaf Sun Mar 05 2023, 17:06

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I keep going back to I think the ref was being kind, but he's got this wrong. I accept the game is already well won etc but he's gone well off piste in deciding his own laws here.

Well technically he hasn't. Law 6.5.a The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match.

He doesn't believe it to be a deliberate act of foul play so it's only a penalty. He's not made up the law he's applied it in a relaxed way. It's not particularly unusual to see different interpretations from officials, see any high tackle for an example of that.

Heaf, if you award a penalty try and can identify the player responsible then you have to yellow card them. Hence why Carley probably didn't think it was fair to award a penalty try.

Yep realise that - which is why I think the laws should be a PT can be awarded if an action that's a penalty offence stops a try, even if it's accidental and not deemed foul play.

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Post by Heaf Sun Mar 05 2023, 17:08

doctor_grey wrote:Have to admit, Newcastle-LI was pretty entertaining.  

Liked the result Very Happy

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Post by Heaf Sun Mar 05 2023, 17:09

I see Ms Hodnett was at it again - let the most obvious of forward passes go for a try for Sale ...

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Post by Cumbrian Sun Mar 05 2023, 17:14

True enough, his line-out looks solid too. A player that can nail his darts under pressure is worth his weight in gold. He's certainly got time to physically mature. It will be interesting to see what the pecking order is going into the next Six Nations.

From that game, I was again impressed by Carpenter. I'd rate him as the second best English fullback in the league at the moment, he's quick, solid under the high ball and a great attacking threat. Borthwick could do worse than getting him in and around the squad, it's just a shame for the lad that depth in the back three is about as good as I can remember.
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Post by westisbest Sun Mar 05 2023, 19:08

Heaf wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Have to admit, Newcastle-LI was pretty entertaining.  


Liked the result Very Happy

As did I Very Happy

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Post by doctor_grey Mon Mar 06 2023, 10:09

Heaf wrote:I see Ms Hodnett was at it again - let the most obvious of forward passes go for a try for Sale ...
That was a pretty amazingly forward pass. Not sure how that could be missed unless the officials had an urgent need to go to the loo since this was at halftime. Really no other explanation seems to work....

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