Political round up.............

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Crackpot.

The first major election of the year, in Taiwan, has seen a victory for the DPP, news that will annoy Beijing.

Looking closer at the results there, they did lose their majority in the parliament, and probably would have lost the Presidential election if the two other main candidates had shared a ticket as once planned. General impression seems to be that the people want a good relationship with China, but increasingly identify as Taiwanese.

The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.

Samo wrote:The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.

And whomever the opposition are at any one time, they need to be effective in holding whomever is in Government to account. A fractious, useless Tory party is unlikely to be able to do this. Can't see anyone else stepping in either...

See that scum bag, Netanyahu, is now openly spouting what has been Israel's policy since the inception of it as a State. Nice. Still, I guess we should be thankful he's being honest, for once.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68025945

navyblueshorts wrote:

Samo wrote:The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.

And whomever the opposition are at any one time, they need to be effective in holding whomever is in Government to account. A fractious, useless Tory party is unlikely to be able to do this. Can't see anyone else stepping in either...

Yes can't wait for Starmer......He has only u-turned on....

Taxing corporations....
Privatisation of the NHS...
Cutting the lowest lowest paid out tax..
Two Child benefit cap...
Tuition fees.
His Green policy from last year...
Cutting Tax breaks on public schools..
Wanted a ceasefire all along in Gaza apparently despite 7 ministers resigning over wanting one..

More but I can't be bothered.............Not voting the Tories out and not voting them in......Westminster is putrid...

I'd rather watch Love island on election day...When I should be in it with my physique and good looks

If you've not already done so, I recommend reading 'How they broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Most of its content is familiar to most I reckon. However, as a polemic bringing together of all the sh!te foisted on us over the last few decades, it makes one realise just how sh!te these individuals are, and why we're now all up the creek without a paddle.

navyblueshorts wrote:If you've not already done so, I recommend reading 'How they broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Most of its content is familiar to most I reckon. However, as a polemic bringing together of all the sh!te foisted on us over the last few decades, it makes one realise just how sh!te these individuals are, and why we're now all up the creek without a paddle.

When I popped over in 1989......There were no Tuition fees......You could buy a house for 50k or less (First house wasn't much more than that in the early 90s).....There were more clubs and fields for kids to play so they could integrate and become more involved in the Community.........NHS was better........Fuel was cheap....More Cops on the streets......Think people were happier...

A ticket to S**tsville for many kids growing up now...........and I'm genuinely sorry about it..

Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel. Obviously, anything that Israel states must be taken as Gospel truth as well.

Of course it should be investigated, but honestly, who the Hell thinks the right thing to do is starve UNRWA of hundreds of millions of dollars of funds right now? Moronic.

navyblueshorts wrote:Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel.

https://archive.is/u0hZ1

Lowlandbrit wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel.

https://archive.is/u0hZ1

That's not substantiation though, is it? Even the U.S. agrees it hasn't corroborated anything as yet. In addition, Israel obviously always tells the truth, and doesn't fabricate evidence.

It may well be true, and it needs to be investigated properly. However, I suggest that Israel and the U.S. are not the ones to do so if the outcome is expected to be believed.

Also, 12 staff accused out of, what, ~10,000? That's a good reason to cut off funding that millions depend upon. I'm sure that more than 12 Israeli settlers have murdered (or been 'involved' in - maybe some 'celebrated' a murder?) Palestinians in the West Bank etc over the last 12 months, but guess what? The U.S. etc haven't subsequently suspended the gazillions in money and arms that they fall over themselves to give to Israel.

Finally, what a surprise. Israel has had a long-standing issue with UNRWA because they think its very existence and remit supports the right of return and Palestinian statehood, something that's clearly anathema to Israel.

Ooops:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/senior-israeli-officials-speak-at-conference-on-resettling-gaza-strip_uk_65b8b220e4b077c17ab6489f?ncid=flipboard-HP

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/29/israeli-ministers-attend-conference-calling-for-voluntary-migration-of-palestinians

I guess some people's lives are worth more than others...

Interesting to see/hear that the SNP were just as sh!te re. Covid as UKG. Quite informative to find out that they thought it was A-OK to delete messages etc in order not to leave traces of what they did, and why, and that they appear to think it was OK not to Minute important meetings etc. What could they possibly have to hide? They're such beacons of light in the political world...

navyblueshorts wrote:Quite informative to find out that they thought it was A-OK to delete messages etc in order not to leave traces of what they did, and why, and that they appear to think it was OK not to Minute important meetings etc.

Dutch government had a similar 'if in doubt, don't write it down' approach to taking minutes. Very useful when you're pretending you don't remember exactly who did or said what later (if you watch these things, it's remarkable the details they do remember when the person questioning them gets something wrong).

Two by-elections this Thursday.

One in Kingswood, one in Wellingborough. Labour are strong favourites (1/20 and 1/10 respectively) to overturn Tory majorities and win both seats.

Of more interest than Labour's seemingly inevitable wins will be if the Reform Party can beat the Tories to second place in Wellingborough. If that happened then the Tory Party might move against Sunak before the next GE.

There's also a by-election on the 29th in Rochdale, which is a Labour defence. Labour are coming under strong challenge from George Galloway, now part of the 'Workers' Party of Britain'. Galloway appears to be making every effort to win over the Muslim population in the constituency by making it all about Palestine. Galloway has attracted some curious supporters, including Nick Griffin, and is currently 3/1 to topple Labour, just like he did in Bradford West in 2012.

Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack. Such viewpoints will probably help him get voters from Galloway's supporters.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/10/the-hard-truth-is-that-britains-entrepreneurs-simply-dont-innovate

Eventually, some politicians may well realise that all this 'private good, public bad' Poopie is a good example of emperors w/o any clothes....

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

People only get kicked out of Labour if they are on the left....

Well Israel is in part responsible for what happened. Ignoring the political situation (including their use of Hamas as a way to dispose of the PLO) They are responsible for their own defense, and, quite frankly, their intelligence failed. The reasons for that probably go back to Netanyahu.

No question that Hamas are a bad bunch, but them being as awful as they were doesn't automatically justify Israel's actions in Gaza

There are also allegations that a policy of shooting first and asking (or rather avoiding) questions later meant that some of the civilian casualties on 7th October may have been directly down to actions by the IDF.

The big problem with this conflict is that the Israeli Govt stain any alternate view as Anti semitism...As one Cabinet member said "It's a game we all play"...

Israel lobby has a strong presence in both US and UK politics and despite knowing that it is a genocide.....Biden....Starmer and Sunak are scared of any reprisals...

It's gutless but it's politics.....Kids getting massacred in Schools is just Collateral damage.

It's just the way it is.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

lostinwales wrote:Well Israel is in part responsible for what happened. Ignoring the political situation (including their use of Hamas as a way to dispose of the PLO) They are responsible for their own defense, and, quite frankly, their intelligence failed. The reasons for that probably go back to Netanyahu.

No question that Hamas are a bad bunch, but them being as awful as they were doesn't automatically justify Israel's actions in Gaza

There are also allegations that  a policy of shooting first and asking (or rather avoiding) questions later meant that some of the civilian casualties on 7th October may have been directly down to actions by the IDF.

Indeed there are. Hannibal Directive and all that. Still, whatever Israel claims is the truth must be so...

For example, https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israeli-hq-ordered-troops-shoot-israeli-captives-7-october

Duty doesn't have to read; don't want to upset his/her sensibilities....

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?

What a week it'll be for Sunak.

Thursday will see whether the UK was in recession during the last half of 2023. Media seem to be saying that a recession will be announced,  but this could be expectation management from the Tories, who will celebrate wildly if the figures show +0.1% for the fourth quarter.

There's also the latest inflation figures on Wednesday, if that's risen then it's horrific for the Tories. Plus the Rwanda bill is getting savaged in the Lords this week, and there's the two heavy by-election defeats on the way.

Might see Tory MPs maneuvering against Sunak by Friday, if they can be bothered.

We have started to get more literature through the door talking up the prospective Tory candidate (the current guy is quitting). The detail (fixing inflation, punishing polluters, more police officers) can all be simply answered by asking why these areas are all problems in the first place.

What is interesting is that this stuff is starting to appear. Add in Sunak's GBN stunt and the 3 days/week on the road thing and it makes me wonder if the GE might be getting closer.

Latest poll.....

Lab 40
Con 29
Lib 11
Ref 10

Reform are the party that is moving at the moment.....

A ten point lead would be hung territory......So it is sobering for Starmer.

Not been kind this weekend to Labour......However it is one poll and they are further ahead in others.

Indeed, quite an outlier.

It's from More in Common, and they've been generally forecasting lower Labour leads than the rest of the polling companies. Could mean their methodology is screwed, or it could mean they're like Survation of 2017 and are actually the true voice.

Would, if accurate, be hung parliament territory, because that Reform vote will get squeezed once its supporters realise that they have very little chance of winning seats.

At the other end of the scale, there's YouGov and Redfield putting up 25% leads for Labour!

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I remember when YouGov were supposedly a biased Tory organisation because their founder has links to the Tory Party...guess that doesn't apply anymore?

Not been a good start to the week for Starmer, with this business over the Rochdale candidate getting removed, but the heat will turn on Sunak soon enough.

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?

Read the book and find out, why don't you? You've apparently just given a lie to the old "You can't judge a book by its cover" saying. Good Lord.
I thought you like to express opinions based on broad and balanced knowledge? Clearly not.

Read it, and then maybe I'll listen/engage with your discourse on anything Israel. Maybe read some Ilan Pappé, Noam Chomsky etc on Palestine as well, while you're at it. I wasn't going to read it, as I dislike Corbyn and doubt I'd have voted Labour last time around, but he just happens to be the target used by Winstanley as an example to illustrate the influence of lobbying/pressure on behalf of Israel. I still doubt I'd have voted for Corbyn's Labour, but I have some sympathy with him over the anti-Semitism row.

Quite ironic the current frothing and hand wringing over Labour candidates for MPs in light of that book. As Truss said, it's only those on the left of Labour that ever seem to get expelled. Labour are pathetic. I was probably going to grant them my vote whenever the GE comes around, but as of yesterday, they can **** off.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...

It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?

Read the book and find out, why don't you? You've apparently just given a lie to the old "You can't judge a book by its cover" saying. Good Lord.
I thought you like to express opinions based on broad and balanced knowledge? Clearly not.

Read it, and then maybe I'll listen/engage with your discourse on anything Israel. Maybe read some Ilan Pappé, Noam Chomsky etc on Palestine as well, while you're at it. I wasn't going to read it, as I dislike Corbyn and doubt I'd have voted Labour last time around, but he just happens to be the target used by Winstanley as an example to illustrate the influence of lobbying/pressure on behalf of Israel. I still doubt I'd have voted for Corbyn's Labour, but I have some sympathy with him over the anti-Semitism row.

Quite ironic the current frothing and hand wringing over Labour candidates for MPs in light of that book. As Truss said, it's only those on the left of Labour that ever seem to get expelled. Labour are pathetic. I was probably going to grant them my vote whenever the GE comes around, but as of yesterday, they can **** off.

Oooh, what a tempting offer that is. As I've said before, I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but you seem to think I am just because I've disagreed with some of your claims.

You didn't quite answer the second question - do you actually believe the Israel lobby conspired with the Labour right, Mossad and MI5, to prevent Corbyn entering number ten?

I doubt Corbyn 'just happens' to be the target used by Winstanley. Winstanley was always a massive supporter of Corbyn, as far as I'm aware, and when Corbyn got decisively rejected in 2019, there had to be a scapegoat. It couldn't be Corbyn's fault. It had to be the Labour right, the Tories, the Jews, Israel, the right wing media, the banks, the Guardian, the BBC, Channel 4...anyone's fault but the dear leader.

And maybe its only those on the left of Labour who are openly anti-Semitic. How about that? It does seem to attract a lot of them.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest poll.....

Lab 40
Con 29
Lib  11
Ref  10

Reform are the party that is moving at the moment.....

A ten point lead would be hung territory......So it is sobering for Starmer.

Not been kind this weekend to Labour......However it is one poll and they are further ahead in others.

Two polls now as Savanta come out with Labour 41% and Tories 29%. A 12% lead, down from 19% in their previous poll.

Inflation stayed at 4% today, having been expected to rise slightly by 'experts'. That's good news for the Tories, but a recession at the end of 2023 may be announced tomorrow.

Duty281 wrote:
Oooh, what a tempting offer that is. As I've said before, I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but you seem to think I am just because I've disagreed with some of your claims.

You didn't quite answer the second question - do you actually believe the Israel lobby conspired with the Labour right, Mossad and MI5, to prevent Corbyn entering number ten?

I doubt Corbyn 'just happens' to be the target used by Winstanley. Winstanley was always a massive supporter of Corbyn, as far as I'm aware, and when Corbyn got decisively rejected in 2019, there had to be a scapegoat. It couldn't be Corbyn's fault. It had to be the Labour right, the Tories, the Jews, Israel, the right wing media, the banks, the Guardian, the BBC, Channel 4...anyone's fault but the dear leader.

And maybe its only those on the left of Labour who are openly anti-Semitic. How about that? It does seem to attract a lot of them.

Sorry. Wasn't aware there was a 'second question'. It's an interesting thing to consider/debate, at least in part because any suggestion that there might be any organised use of anti-Semitism claims to denigrate opponents and advance Israeli narratives appears to be, by definition in many minds, anti-Semitic.
I doubt there's a formal conspiracy as organised and wide-ranging as you're framing it, but I do think (and it's hardly surprising, is it?) that Israel, and those whose avowed interests are its support, lobby/pressurise where and how they can to prevent those who would disagree with Israeli policies re. Palestine from gaining any traction in the media. Others just pile on for political reasons, societal pressure to conform to the 'norm' that criticism of Israel is, by definition, anti-Semitic etc. I definitely do think that Winstanley's main thesis (i.e. that Israel weaponises claims of anti-Semitism at every opportunity, grounded in actual fact or not, for it's own gain) is correct. Debate/discussion is simply not allowed.

I don't know what Winstanley's form is re. support of Corbyn; I'm not that interested in that per se. If Winstanley's main raison d'etre is advocacy for Palestinians/Palestine and Corbyn's natural stance was to be sympathetic to the same issue, would you be surprised that Winstanley supported Corbyn? The book (if you read it) doesn't drool over Corbyn at every possible opportunity; it does deal with mistakes etc that Corbyn and his close allies made.

Two comfortable by election wins for Labour, as expected. But enthusiasm for Labour not especially high, and the Tories even less so.

Reform still not justifying their polling numbers either. They’re polling a few points lower than UKIP in 2012-2014, but whereas UKIP were regularly coming second in by elections (including nearly shocking Labour in Heywood which would have finished Miliband early), and even winning a couple, Reform are nowhere near that, which makes me think they’re being overstated in the polls by a good few %. But for nearly every polling organisation to overestimate them would be most odd.

Utter farce in Parliament today. Walkouts, anger, the Speaker damaging his reputation and possibly destroying his career, all over a completely pointless motion.

Duty281 wrote:Utter farce in Parliament today. Walkouts, anger, the Speaker damaging his reputation and possibly destroying his career, all over a completely pointless motion.

Exactly. Regardless of what parliament decides, it's hardly going to force Isreal or Palestein to alter what they are doing at all. I'm a bit puzzled why such a fuss, makes you wonder if the MPs care more about getting their point across as opposed to actually having an effect on situation(which it won't anyway!).

Agreed. Utterly ridiculous. In terms of the motion, however, whether Israel takes any notice is in my view, irrelevant. It's a point of principle, and they're often worth standing for, material effects or not.

It may have been a pointless motion, but the SNP only get 3 opposition days each parliamentary session, which was essentially taken away from them at the last minute, seemingly just because Starmer couldnt be seen to vote for an SNP motion that he has refused to back for months. I think the SNP have every right to be pissed off, and all this will do is give them another example of Westminster holding the people of Scotland in contempt.

Ah...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/us-intelligence-unrwa-hamas?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5

One of the ugliest by-elections will conclude in the early hours of tomorrow.

Galloway is a 4/7 favourite to triumph; Azhar Ali, on the ballot as Labour but will sit as an independent if elected, is 13/10.

Whichever of the two wins will only be a MP for a matter of months before the next GE removes them.

Galloway wins. He's such a divisive bitter man and his supporters and voters in Rochdale will soon find out he's just there to promote himself and his agenda not the people of the town.

Astonishing win in terms of margin. I was surprised that the ex-Labour candidate polled as low as 8%, but I guess word spread about his removal and he was viewed, effectively, as another independent.

Even if he wasn't removed, I think Galloway still wins, so it was a stroke of luck for Starmer in that he can ignore this defeat.

I thought Galloway would be out when the GE rolls around; now I'm not 100% sure. The issue of Gaza is hurting Labour amongst its once almost guaranteed Muslim vote.

I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

Hmm, It gets fishier and fishier. I guess they could still come up with incontrovertible evidence, but even then I imagine many would justifiably ask to see raw, demonstrably untampered with data, to substantiate anything...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/mar/01/unrwa-funding-pause-employees-october-7-hamas-attack-claims-no-evidence-un?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5

Even if true in the end, this is still a disgrace. ~12 staff out of 30,000 UNRWA employees, with ~13,000 in Gaza. Those nations that stopped the funding streams just on the say-so of Israel should a) be very ashamed of themselves (God knows, I'm definitely ashamed of the UK re. this) and, b) take a good, long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

Duty281 wrote:Astonishing win in terms of margin. I was surprised that the ex-Labour candidate polled as low as 8%, but I guess word spread about his removal and he was viewed, effectively, as another independent.

Even if he wasn't removed, I think Galloway still wins, so it was a stroke of luck for Starmer in that he can ignore this defeat.

I thought Galloway would be out when the GE rolls around; now I'm not 100% sure. The issue of Gaza is hurting Labour amongst its once almost guaranteed Muslim vote.

I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

I'm not massively a Galloway fan at all, and I agree w/ mountain man that he's a chancer, but Labour have got themselves into a right bind with their stance on Gaza. It might make a dent in their appeal come the GE, but personally, I suspect that issues at home in the UK will outweigh any sympathy w/ the Gazans when it comes to voting in the next GE. It's not like there's an alternative, with another party coming out clearly and condemning Israel's behaviour re. their assault on Gaza, or promising to review financial/military support etc. Anyone of any note who remotely criticises Israel's behaviour re. Palestine is slandered/libelled with the usual 'anti-Semite' claims, regardless of the reality of what they've said or done.

Galloway really is the Poopie that won't flush

Duty281 wrote:I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

There's one in NL that had some success establishing itself, but they've struggled a bit to keep the various backgrounds that make up the muslim population on board together. Might be easier in a constituency system though.

GSC wrote:Galloway really is the Poopie that won't flush

Used to be the left wing answer to Farage but impossible to tell apart these days.

navyblueshorts wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Astonishing win in terms of margin. I was surprised that the ex-Labour candidate polled as low as 8%, but I guess word spread about his removal and he was viewed, effectively, as another independent.

Even if he wasn't removed, I think Galloway still wins, so it was a stroke of luck for Starmer in that he can ignore this defeat.

I thought Galloway would be out when the GE rolls around; now I'm not 100% sure. The issue of Gaza is hurting Labour amongst its once almost guaranteed Muslim vote.

I think this result shows that an Islamic party, if led by a brilliant campaigner, is a very viable option for the future. They could stand in areas where the Muslim population is relatively high and maybe win a couple of dozen seats at a GE, being similar to the SNP in terms of insurgency.

I'm not massively a Galloway fan at all, and I agree w/ mountain man that he's a chancer, but Labour have got themselves into a right bind with their stance on Gaza. It might make a dent in their appeal come the GE, but personally, I suspect that issues at home in the UK will outweigh any sympathy w/ the Gazans when it comes to voting in the next GE. It's not like there's an alternative, with another party coming out clearly and condemning Israel's behaviour re. their assault on Gaza, or promising to review financial/military support etc. Anyone of any note who remotely criticises Israel's behaviour re. Palestine is slandered/libelled with the usual 'anti-Semite' claims, regardless of the reality of what they've said or done.

Every time the AS label comes up I can't help thinking that as the Palestinians are themselves semitic the most AS behaviour is coming from Israel

Latest Ipsos pooling for the Evening Standard:

Labour 47%
Cons 20%
LD 9%
Green 8%
Reform 8%

The lowest Ipsos rating the Tories have had since the start of regular polling in 1978. If this result was repeated nationwide in a general election Labour would have a 424 seat majority, with the Tories left with 25 seats, and Lib Dems becoming the official opposition with 47 seats.

Sunak is also polling at -54, which is the worst Tory leader rating in 30 years. Infact only Corbyn (summer 2019) has polled lower since 1994.

Turns out demonizing migrants and trans people isnt actually a vote winner. Better be a bloody good budget.

I thought the speech by Sunak was a disgrace the other night.....Galloway is a symptom of bad government......Nothing more....address that.

To use the election to admonish both an electorate using their democratic right to let a useless poison dwarf know how crap he is....and to threaten 99.9% of peaceful marchers with police and promise to take their right to protest away...

Leads us to a risk of a dangerous authoritarion Country by trying to create moral panic with dissenting voices....

Gutter stuff from a desperate party.

Notably the other useless plank of vacuous wood hasn't got an opinion about it.

Consistent as ever.....Staying at home on election day me thinks.