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Political round up.............

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Post by superflyweight Mon 24 Oct 2022, 5:06 pm

First topic message reminder :

Duty281 wrote:Sunak speaks for a grand total of 84 seconds and then scuttles away to get his orders.

Crackpot.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 13 Jan 2024, 11:12 pm

The first major election of the year, in Taiwan, has seen a victory for the DPP, news that will annoy Beijing.

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Post by Lowlandbrit Sun 14 Jan 2024, 6:38 am

Looking closer at the results there, they did lose their majority in the parliament, and probably would have lost the Presidential election if the two other main candidates had shared a ticket as once planned. General impression seems to be that the people want a good relationship with China, but increasingly identify as Taiwanese.

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Post by Samo Wed 17 Jan 2024, 9:51 am

The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 17 Jan 2024, 12:44 pm

Samo wrote:The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.
And whomever the opposition are at any one time, they need to be effective in holding whomever is in Government to account. A fractious, useless Tory party is unlikely to be able to do this. Can't see anyone else stepping in either...
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Post by navyblueshorts Fri 19 Jan 2024, 1:24 pm

See that scum bag, Netanyahu, is now openly spouting what has been Israel's policy since the inception of it as a State. Nice. Still, I guess we should be thankful he's being honest, for once.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-68025945
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 19 Jan 2024, 4:16 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Samo wrote:The Tories are imploding, which would normally be very funny but they've got another 10 months of government.
And whomever the opposition are at any one time, they need to be effective in holding whomever is in Government to account. A fractious, useless Tory party is unlikely to be able to do this. Can't see anyone else stepping in either...

Yes can't wait for Starmer......He has only u-turned on....

Taxing corporations....
Privatisation of the NHS...
Cutting the lowest lowest paid out tax..
Two Child benefit cap...
Tuition fees.
His Green policy from last year...
Cutting Tax breaks on public schools..
Wanted a ceasefire all along in Gaza apparently despite 7 ministers resigning over wanting one..

More but I can't be bothered.............Not voting the Tories out and not voting them in......Westminster is putrid...

I'd rather watch Love island on election day...When I should be in it with my physique and good looks Wink Political round up............. - Page 20 3845856932






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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 24 Jan 2024, 3:01 pm

If you've not already done so, I recommend reading 'How they broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Most of its content is familiar to most I reckon. However, as a polemic bringing together of all the sh!te foisted on us over the last few decades, it makes one realise just how sh!te these individuals are, and why we're now all up the creek without a paddle.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Thu 25 Jan 2024, 4:30 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:If you've not already done so, I recommend reading 'How they broke Britain' by James O'Brien. Most of its content is familiar to most I reckon. However, as a polemic bringing together of all the sh!te foisted on us over the last few decades, it makes one realise just how sh!te these individuals are, and why we're now all up the creek without a paddle.

When I popped over in 1989......There were no Tuition fees......You could buy a house for 50k or less (First house wasn't much more than that in the early 90s).....There were more clubs and fields for kids to play so they could integrate and become more involved in the Community.........NHS was better........Fuel was cheap....More Cops on the streets......Think people were happier...

A ticket to S**tsville for many kids growing up now...........and I'm genuinely sorry about it..

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 29 Jan 2024, 2:17 pm

Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel. Obviously, anything that Israel states must be taken as Gospel truth as well.

Of course it should be investigated, but honestly, who the Hell thinks the right thing to do is starve UNRWA of hundreds of millions of dollars of funds right now? Moronic.
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Post by Lowlandbrit Mon 29 Jan 2024, 4:40 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel.
https://archive.is/u0hZ1

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue 30 Jan 2024, 10:07 am

Lowlandbrit wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:Got to love the "civilised West's" response to the (currently unsubstantiated AFAIK) claim that UNRWA staff might have been involved in the Oct 7th Hamas attacks on Israel.
https://archive.is/u0hZ1
That's not substantiation though, is it? Even the U.S. agrees it hasn't corroborated anything as yet. In addition, Israel obviously always tells the truth, and doesn't fabricate evidence.

It may well be true, and it needs to be investigated properly. However, I suggest that Israel and the U.S. are not the ones to do so if the outcome is expected to be believed.

Also, 12 staff accused out of, what, ~10,000? That's a good reason to cut off funding that millions depend upon. I'm sure that more than 12 Israeli settlers have murdered (or been 'involved' in - maybe some 'celebrated' a murder?) Palestinians in the West Bank etc over the last 12 months, but guess what? The U.S. etc haven't subsequently suspended the gazillions in money and arms that they fall over themselves to give to Israel.

Finally, what a surprise. Israel has had a long-standing issue with UNRWA because they think its very existence and remit supports the right of return and Palestinian statehood, something that's clearly anathema to Israel.

Ooops:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/senior-israeli-officials-speak-at-conference-on-resettling-gaza-strip_uk_65b8b220e4b077c17ab6489f?ncid=flipboard-HP

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/29/israeli-ministers-attend-conference-calling-for-voluntary-migration-of-palestinians

I guess some people's lives are worth more than others...
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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 31 Jan 2024, 11:23 am

Interesting to see/hear that the SNP were just as sh!te re. Covid as UKG. Quite informative to find out that they thought it was A-OK to delete messages etc in order not to leave traces of what they did, and why, and that they appear to think it was OK not to Minute important meetings etc. What could they possibly have to hide? They're such beacons of light in the political world...
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Post by Lowlandbrit Wed 31 Jan 2024, 1:15 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Quite informative to find out that they thought it was A-OK to delete messages etc in order not to leave traces of what they did, and why, and that they appear to think it was OK not to Minute important meetings etc.
Dutch government had a similar 'if in doubt, don't write it down' approach to taking minutes. Very useful when you're pretending you don't remember exactly who did or said what later (if you watch these things, it's remarkable the details they do remember when the person questioning them gets something wrong).

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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Feb 2024, 12:41 pm

Two by-elections this Thursday.

One in Kingswood, one in Wellingborough. Labour are strong favourites (1/20 and 1/10 respectively) to overturn Tory majorities and win both seats.

Of more interest than Labour's seemingly inevitable wins will be if the Reform Party can beat the Tories to second place in Wellingborough. If that happened then the Tory Party might move against Sunak before the next GE.

There's also a by-election on the 29th in Rochdale, which is a Labour defence. Labour are coming under strong challenge from George Galloway, now part of the 'Workers' Party of Britain'. Galloway appears to be making every effort to win over the Muslim population in the constituency by making it all about Palestine. Galloway has attracted some curious supporters, including Nick Griffin, and is currently 3/1 to topple Labour, just like he did in Bradford West in 2012.

Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack. Such viewpoints will probably help him get voters from Galloway's supporters.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 12 Feb 2024, 10:14 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/10/the-hard-truth-is-that-britains-entrepreneurs-simply-dont-innovate

Eventually, some politicians may well realise that all this 'private good, public bad' Poopie is a good example of emperors w/o any clothes....
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 12 Feb 2024, 11:55 am

Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?
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Post by Duty281 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 12:07 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 12 Feb 2024, 1:43 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....
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Post by Duty281 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 2:01 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 2:12 pm

People only get kicked out of Labour if they are on the left....

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Post by lostinwales Mon 12 Feb 2024, 2:16 pm

Well Israel is in part responsible for what happened. Ignoring the political situation (including their use of Hamas as a way to dispose of the PLO) They are responsible for their own defense, and, quite frankly, their intelligence failed. The reasons for that probably go back to Netanyahu.

No question that Hamas are a bad bunch, but them being as awful as they were doesn't automatically justify Israel's actions in Gaza

There are also allegations that a policy of shooting first and asking (or rather avoiding) questions later meant that some of the civilian casualties on 7th October may have been directly down to actions by the IDF.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm

The big problem with this conflict is that the Israeli Govt stain any alternate view as Anti semitism...As one Cabinet member said "It's a game we all play"...

Israel lobby has a strong presence in both US and UK politics and despite knowing that it is a genocide.....Biden....Starmer and Sunak are scared of any reprisals...

It's gutless but it's politics.....Kids getting massacred in Schools is just Collateral damage.

It's just the way it is.

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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 12 Feb 2024, 4:55 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.
Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.
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Post by navyblueshorts Mon 12 Feb 2024, 4:56 pm

lostinwales wrote:Well Israel is in part responsible for what happened. Ignoring the political situation (including their use of Hamas as a way to dispose of the PLO) They are responsible for their own defense, and, quite frankly, their intelligence failed. The reasons for that probably go back to Netanyahu.

No question that Hamas are a bad bunch, but them being as awful as they were doesn't automatically justify Israel's actions in Gaza

There are also allegations that  a policy of shooting first and asking (or rather avoiding) questions later meant that some of the civilian casualties on 7th October may have been directly down to actions by the IDF.
Indeed there are. Hannibal Directive and all that. Still, whatever Israel claims is the truth must be so...

For example, https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israeli-hq-ordered-troops-shoot-israeli-captives-7-october

Duty doesn't have to read; don't want to upset his/her sensibilities....
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Post by Duty281 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 5:25 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.
Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?

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Post by Duty281 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 6:55 pm

What a week it'll be for Sunak.

Thursday will see whether the UK was in recession during the last half of 2023. Media seem to be saying that a recession will be announced,  but this could be expectation management from the Tories, who will celebrate wildly if the figures show +0.1% for the fourth quarter.

There's also the latest inflation figures on Wednesday, if that's risen then it's horrific for the Tories. Plus the Rwanda bill is getting savaged in the Lords this week, and there's the two heavy by-election defeats on the way.

Might see Tory MPs maneuvering against Sunak by Friday, if they can be bothered.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 13 Feb 2024, 10:38 am

We have started to get more literature through the door talking up the prospective Tory candidate (the current guy is quitting). The detail (fixing inflation, punishing polluters, more police officers) can all be simply answered by asking why these areas are all problems in the first place.

What is interesting is that this stuff is starting to appear. Add in Sunak's GBN stunt and the 3 days/week on the road thing and it makes me wonder if the GE might be getting closer.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Tue 13 Feb 2024, 1:58 pm

Latest poll.....

Lab 40
Con 29
Lib 11
Ref 10

Reform are the party that is moving at the moment.....

A ten point lead would be hung territory......So it is sobering for Starmer.

Not been kind this weekend to Labour......However it is one poll and they are further ahead in others.

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Post by Duty281 Tue 13 Feb 2024, 2:19 pm

Indeed, quite an outlier.

It's from More in Common, and they've been generally forecasting lower Labour leads than the rest of the polling companies. Could mean their methodology is screwed, or it could mean they're like Survation of 2017 and are actually the true voice.

Would, if accurate, be hung parliament territory, because that Reform vote will get squeezed once its supporters realise that they have very little chance of winning seats.

At the other end of the scale, there's YouGov and Redfield putting up 25% leads for Labour!

The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. I remember when YouGov were supposedly a biased Tory organisation because their founder has links to the Tory Party...guess that doesn't apply anymore?

Not been a good start to the week for Starmer, with this business over the Rochdale candidate getting removed, but the heat will turn on Sunak soon enough.

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Post by navyblueshorts Wed 14 Feb 2024, 3:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.
Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?
Read the book and find out, why don't you? You've apparently just given a lie to the old "You can't judge a book by its cover" saying. Good Lord.
I thought you like to express opinions based on broad and balanced knowledge? Clearly not.

Read it, and then maybe I'll listen/engage with your discourse on anything Israel. Maybe read some Ilan Pappé, Noam Chomsky etc on Palestine as well, while you're at it. I wasn't going to read it, as I dislike Corbyn and doubt I'd have voted Labour last time around, but he just happens to be the target used by Winstanley as an example to illustrate the influence of lobbying/pressure on behalf of Israel. I still doubt I'd have voted for Corbyn's Labour, but I have some sympathy with him over the anti-Semitism row.

Quite ironic the current frothing and hand wringing over Labour candidates for MPs in light of that book. As Truss said, it's only those on the left of Labour that ever seem to get expelled. Labour are pathetic. I was probably going to grant them my vote whenever the GE comes around, but as of yesterday, they can **** off.
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Post by Duty281 Wed 14 Feb 2024, 4:42 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Duty281 wrote:...Labour's candidate in Rochdale will probably lose the Labour whip instantly if he's elected, after he claimed that Israel allowed the October 7th attack...
It would be good, all things considered, if the recording of these alleged remarks was made available, in full. We wouldn't want to jump to conclusions, would we?

He apologised for the remarks (after being caught making them, obviously not a genuine apology), and hasn't denied the remarks attributed to him, which I imagine he would do if the allegations were in any way false.

Not looking forward to Labour's new MP intake later this year, because their vetting is terrible and goodness knows what horrors will be unleashed.
Who makes a genuine apology these days? Or is that only for those listening to determine?

I'd still quite like to hear the recording, and it's context. You should have a read of Asa Winstanley's 'Weaponising Anti-Semitism'....

No one makes a genuine apology when they've been told to do it by higher-ups. Applies to sportspeople, politicians and celebrities.

I'd rather not read a book by a dribbling anti-Semite, if it's all the same to you.
Ah. Don't want to read? Go on; you might learn a bit more balance. Scared you might find many of your assumptions aren't all you thought they were? All the same to me if you don't expand your knowledge, but don't expect me to take your opinions in this area seriously if you're publicly sticking your head in the sand. Doesn't change any realities, however. Thought better of you, if I'm honest. Pity.

"Winstanley exposes a plot by the Israel lobby, in alliance with the Labour right and Israeli and British intelligence agencies, to prevent a socialist entering Downing Street."

What part of my knowledge is going to be expanded by reading this drivel? Is this a conspiracy theory you subscribe to?
Read the book and find out, why don't you? You've apparently just given a lie to the old "You can't judge a book by its cover" saying. Good Lord.
I thought you like to express opinions based on broad and balanced knowledge? Clearly not.

Read it, and then maybe I'll listen/engage with your discourse on anything Israel. Maybe read some Ilan Pappé, Noam Chomsky etc on Palestine as well, while you're at it. I wasn't going to read it, as I dislike Corbyn and doubt I'd have voted Labour last time around, but he just happens to be the target used by Winstanley as an example to illustrate the influence of lobbying/pressure on behalf of Israel. I still doubt I'd have voted for Corbyn's Labour, but I have some sympathy with him over the anti-Semitism row.

Quite ironic the current frothing and hand wringing over Labour candidates for MPs in light of that book. As Truss said, it's only those on the left of Labour that ever seem to get expelled. Labour are pathetic. I was probably going to grant them my vote whenever the GE comes around, but as of yesterday, they can **** off.

Oooh, what a tempting offer that is. As I've said before, I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but you seem to think I am just because I've disagreed with some of your claims.

You didn't quite answer the second question - do you actually believe the Israel lobby conspired with the Labour right, Mossad and MI5, to prevent Corbyn entering number ten?

I doubt Corbyn 'just happens' to be the target used by Winstanley. Winstanley was always a massive supporter of Corbyn, as far as I'm aware, and when Corbyn got decisively rejected in 2019, there had to be a scapegoat. It couldn't be Corbyn's fault. It had to be the Labour right, the Tories, the Jews, Israel, the right wing media, the banks, the Guardian, the BBC, Channel 4...anyone's fault but the dear leader.

And maybe its only those on the left of Labour who are openly anti-Semitic. How about that? It does seem to attract a lot of them.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 14 Feb 2024, 6:12 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Latest poll.....

Lab 40
Con 29
Lib  11
Ref  10

Reform are the party that is moving at the moment.....

A ten point lead would be hung territory......So it is sobering for Starmer.

Not been kind this weekend to Labour......However it is one poll and they are further ahead in others.

Two polls now as Savanta come out with Labour 41% and Tories 29%. A 12% lead, down from 19% in their previous poll.

Inflation stayed at 4% today, having been expected to rise slightly by 'experts'. That's good news for the Tories, but a recession at the end of 2023 may be announced tomorrow.

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Post by navyblueshorts Thu 15 Feb 2024, 11:10 am

Duty281 wrote:
Oooh, what a tempting offer that is. As I've said before, I'm not particularly pro-Israel, but you seem to think I am just because I've disagreed with some of your claims.

You didn't quite answer the second question - do you actually believe the Israel lobby conspired with the Labour right, Mossad and MI5, to prevent Corbyn entering number ten?

I doubt Corbyn 'just happens' to be the target used by Winstanley. Winstanley was always a massive supporter of Corbyn, as far as I'm aware, and when Corbyn got decisively rejected in 2019, there had to be a scapegoat. It couldn't be Corbyn's fault. It had to be the Labour right, the Tories, the Jews, Israel, the right wing media, the banks, the Guardian, the BBC, Channel 4...anyone's fault but the dear leader.

And maybe its only those on the left of Labour who are openly anti-Semitic. How about that? It does seem to attract a lot of them.
Sorry. Wasn't aware there was a 'second question'. It's an interesting thing to consider/debate, at least in part because any suggestion that there might be any organised use of anti-Semitism claims to denigrate opponents and advance Israeli narratives appears to be, by definition in many minds, anti-Semitic.
I doubt there's a formal conspiracy as organised and wide-ranging as you're framing it, but I do think (and it's hardly surprising, is it?) that Israel, and those whose avowed interests are its support, lobby/pressurise where and how they can to prevent those who would disagree with Israeli policies re. Palestine from gaining any traction in the media. Others just pile on for political reasons, societal pressure to conform to the 'norm' that criticism of Israel is, by definition, anti-Semitic etc. I definitely do think that Winstanley's main thesis (i.e. that Israel weaponises claims of anti-Semitism at every opportunity, grounded in actual fact or not, for it's own gain) is correct. Debate/discussion is simply not allowed.

I don't know what Winstanley's form is re. support of Corbyn; I'm not that interested in that per se. If Winstanley's main raison d'etre is advocacy for Palestinians/Palestine and Corbyn's natural stance was to be sympathetic to the same issue, would you be surprised that Winstanley supported Corbyn? The book (if you read it) doesn't drool over Corbyn at every possible opportunity; it does deal with mistakes etc that Corbyn and his close allies made.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 16 Feb 2024, 8:18 am

Two comfortable by election wins for Labour, as expected. But enthusiasm for Labour not especially high, and the Tories even less so.

Reform still not justifying their polling numbers either. They’re polling a few points lower than UKIP in 2012-2014, but whereas UKIP were regularly coming second in by elections (including nearly shocking Labour in Heywood which would have finished Miliband early), and even winning a couple, Reform are nowhere near that, which makes me think they’re being overstated in the polls by a good few %. But for nearly every polling organisation to overestimate them would be most odd.

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