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Rest of the World

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 12:54 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:So India is getting back on the field tonight, kicking off their WTC campaign. Rohit has already confirmed Jaiswal will open, and Gill drop down to 3. When all the talk of Yashasvi taking over from Pujara at 3 was going on, I felt he should open, particularly since the team views Gill as the eventual successor to Virat Kohli at 4. Going forward, I see a top 4 of Jaiswal, Abhimanyu Easwaran/Devdutt Padikkal/Rohan Kunnummal, Gill, Ruturaj Gaikwad.

Eswaran has been hard done by......Jaiswal was jumped over him
Mayank Agarwal should not be ruled out...he has batted very well in FC and has a decent test match showing also.

And don't forget the favorite boy of seniors and BCCI in KL Rahul...as soon as he is fit he will walk back into the 11
Its been tough on Easwaran. Think Mayank and KL might find it difficult to now fight their way back in. Particularly if Yashasvi has a good start to his career. KL might still make a comeback when Rohit leaves, but I hope Easwaran, Rohan and even Padikkal will make better cases for themselves.
As for Yashasvi jumping over Abhimanyu, though its tough on the latter, think is the right call. Jaiswal scored hundreds on his Ranji, Duleep and Irani trophy debuts. He's versatile and has shown adaptability as indicated by his IPL success. And, its not much noted these days, but he's a handy parttimer with the ball, he very much was for the U-19s, hope he'll get a few chances right away to work on that secondary skill of his...

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 12:57 pm

During the previous generation, we had Tendulkar who bowled a couple of match-changings in his test career, Sehwag who has a test fifor, Ganguly who was a decent change up bowler. In the next generation, the best parttime bowler turned out to be Mahendra Singh Dhoni!!! Kohli has rolled his arm over a few times, and when Rohit's selection was so untenable at one point, they said he can bowl some offspin!

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Post by KP_fan Wed 12 Jul 2023, 1:52 pm

Rest of the World F01lhb10

Pitch for T1...looks almost slushy
Someone left the water sprinkler on & forgot.
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Post by KP_fan Wed 12 Jul 2023, 2:08 pm

msp83 wrote:During the previous generation, we had Tendulkar who bowled a couple of match-changings in his test career, Sehwag who has a test fifor, Ganguly who was a decent change up bowler. In the next generation, the best parttime bowler turned out to be Mahendra Singh Dhoni!!! Kohli has rolled his arm over a few times, and when Rohit's selection was so untenable at one point, they said he can bowl some offspin!

Ganguly, Dhoni & before him Dravid / tendular all played 4 bowlers & hence they needed a competent part-timer
True Sehwag, Tendulkar , Ganguly ( at this prime ) were almost allrounder class fpor Ranji and many smaller nations.

Kohli made a switch to 5 specialist bowlers & thereafter the genre of part-timer 5th bowler has become extinct.
I do believe for certain pitches which are quite bowling friendly....4 bowler are enuf and we should look at competent part-timers
I think SKY can bowl seam-up and we should keep on the radar screen Venkatesh Iyer, Shivam Dubey, Vijay shankar with seam-up
Sundar, Shams Mulani and Shahbaz Ahmed are quite competent spinners who are ready to challenge Axar's position
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 2:55 pm

Both sides going with two spinners. West Indies batting first. Alick Athanaze making his debut for the West Indies in the middle order. Jaiswal debuting for India as an opener (FC average of 80 in 15 games) and the excellently-named Ishan Kishan also making a test debut.

West Indies 6/1 to win this, so not many agreeing with KP_Fan's 50/50 assessment.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 12 Jul 2023, 3:25 pm

Kishen , shardul and Unadkat in the 11
Well I am not conviced with Unadkat...BUT happy that they did not mess up with Shardul and Ishan
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 12 Jul 2023, 3:56 pm

Prepping a turner against Ashwin and Jadeja is...a choice
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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 4:07 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Prepping a turner against Ashwin and Jadeja is...a choice

Yeah, but they're no match for Rahkeem the dream.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 4:26 pm

West Indies 2 down, both wickets to Ashwin. Got Tajenarine with a beauty, and Brathwaite of all people, just played a really poor shot and gave his wicket away.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 4:30 pm

Happy Kishan's been given a chance. He hasn't looked entirely secure behind the stumps but has had a lot to say to the batters. But considering Bharat a decent keeper and non-test level batter, Ishan's the choice we have.
Not sure about the make of the seam attack. Unadkat is in as I hoped. But instead of Shardul, I'd have had Saini with his extra pace. Unadkat and Shardul are both medium pace, Siraj is quick but not quite Fast.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 4:33 pm

Now Shardul strikes! Nice take from Kishan. Reifer goes edeging behind. WI in freefall already at 47-3. Alick Athanaze on test debut in now. Brian Lara thinks he has got it in him... Lets see how he goes...

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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 6:00 pm

81/5 currently. Up to Athanaze to lead a recovery on debut.

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Post by KP_fan Wed 12 Jul 2023, 6:55 pm

Pitch had just a hint of little for seamers
And something more for the spinners.
Ashwin's brilliance makes the pitch look more supportive than it is.

Ashwin has created loop, spun ball both ways....and WI gifted a couple of wkts to spinners thru wild hoiks.

ISHAN as a WK has looked good and safe and even better than Bharat
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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 7:31 pm

Athanaze, who looked composed throughout his stay, just giving it away, holding out for 47. At 129-8, West Indies really losing the plot. Can Cornwall, demoted in the batting order do some repair to his batting reputation in Kemar Roach's company?

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 7:38 pm

KPF and those outside India, what stream are you following the game on ? The commentary on the Jio Cinema stream is absolutely atrocious at times. Ian Bishop being in there is the saving grace! The like of Pragyan Ojha has no clue of what he's talking about! Really terrible!

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Post by KP_fan Wed 12 Jul 2023, 8:07 pm

msp83 wrote:KPF and those outside India, what stream are you following the game on ? The commentary on the Jio Cinema stream is absolutely atrocious at times. Ian Bishop being in there is the saving grace! The like of Pragyan Ojha has no clue of what he's talking about! Really terrible!

I am getting BT sports.
Not great commentary team....but not bad.
Only Indian is Raunak who I last saw on CI interviewing cricketers
Only complain I have that there are seemingly no speed guns and don't get to see how fast ( or slow) Unadkat is
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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 8:52 pm

After that poor batting performance, luck not going the WI way. Rohit surviving on umpire's call of a Joseph LBW appeal. Rohit trying to play too many shots upfront. Hope he goes back to the ways of 2021 in England, he was very tight on defense there...

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 8:54 pm

Joseph getting a couple to do things. Roach just steady at the other end.

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Post by msp83 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 9:28 pm

So the new opening partnership gets off to a good start, 52 and counting... Jaiswal took his time to get that first test run, looking increasingly confident at the crease.

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Post by Duty281 Wed 12 Jul 2023, 9:46 pm

A really sorry day for the West Indies. Ashwin and Jadeja bowled well on a receptive surface, but so many of the West Indies dismissals were tame. Liked what I saw of Athanaze, he top scored with 47, though his innings ended as he tried to push the scoring rate on due to running out of partners.

Then in the field the home side posing very little threat with the ball, save for that early shout from Joseph which could have gone either way.

150ao v 66/0. Just seems like a matter of how big the victory will be for India, even at this early stage. The WTC needs to have two tiers; mismatches like this do no one any favours. And how are the West Indies supposed to rejuvenate interest in the game in the Caribbean when getting thumped like this?

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 8:52 am

The test playing countries be increased, include Scotland Netherlands in the mix, and have a 2 division structure to WTC with the top 8 in the first, and the rest in the next. Have a system of promotions and demotions.
Of course, none of it is going to be done, don't think India, England and Australia would be interested.

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 9:14 am

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:During the previous generation, we had Tendulkar who bowled a couple of match-changings in his test career, Sehwag who has a test fifor, Ganguly who was a decent change up bowler. In the next generation, the best parttime bowler turned out to be Mahendra Singh Dhoni!!! Kohli has rolled his arm over a few times, and when Rohit's selection was so untenable at one point, they said he can bowl some offspin!

Ganguly, Dhoni & before him Dravid / tendular all played 4 bowlers  & hence they needed a competent part-timer
True Sehwag, Tendulkar , Ganguly ( at this prime ) were almost allrounder class fpor Ranji and many smaller nations.

Kohli made a switch to 5 specialist bowlers  & thereafter the genre of part-timer 5th bowler has become extinct.
I do believe for certain pitches which are quite bowling friendly....4 bowler are enuf and we should look at competent part-timers
I think SKY can bowl seam-up and we should keep on the radar screen Venkatesh Iyer, Shivam Dubey, Vijay shankar with seam-up
Sundar, Shams Mulani and Shahbaz Ahmed are quite competent spinners who are ready to challenge Axar's position
I knew Shams Mulani has been doing well for Mumbai in domestic cricket. But when you mentioned him, I had a look at his record. Have feeling his bowling record particularly, is underappreciated. 130 wickets from 26 FC games is absolutely brilliant. And coming in lower down the order, he's averaging 37 with the bat. Has built up a bit of a reputation for being the crisis man for Mumbai. And yet, he has not been given much opportunities at even India A level. Is it th lack of IPL opportunities? Think they need to really give him more opportunities at higher levels consistently. Jadeja and Ashwin are not going to be around for ever. Axar is not a wickettaking bowler in non-spinning conditions. Sundar is likely to be more of a batting all-rounder, mostely a defensive option with the ball. How can ignore such consistent numbers from someone who also plays for one of the top domestic sides? Hope he gets a few IPL opportunities and does well...

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 9:18 am

Saurabh Kumar is the preferred spin choice for India A these days. Saurabh is 30 already. Mulani has better records across formats in comparison.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 9:41 am

From the time 2nd wicket fell, some friends in a whatsapp group started screaming
"Windies is collapsing"

It tragicomic to see team declared in collapse at merely the fall of 2nd wicket on first morning of the series
BUT
it turned out to be true....Windies last 9 collapsed for 113 runs.
Pathetic state of affairs......Windies have talent....but no will to play and fight as a unit for their country
For Windies is not their country

They might perform better if allowed to split and play as independent half a dozen or so island nations. At least 3 or 4 of them will better the likes of Sco, Ire, Afg, Nepal, Ned etal.

A win or personal milestones against WI counts for little prestige other than WTC points.
Defeats and personal failure stand exaggerated.

Rohit plays too many across the pads.....that's how he fell in both innings in WTC final...shows lacking patience to grind out the attack.

Jaisawal too showed the weakness of trying to flick straight balls through leg side.
It might not cost him against listless WI...but this chink will be a gaping crack against top sides
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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 9:45 am

msp83 wrote:Saurabh Kumar is the preferred spin choice for India A these days. Saurabh is 30 already. Mulani has better records across formats in comparison.
Shahbaz Ahmed has similar profile SLA-bowling allrounder and got to play 3 ODIs also for India.
Shahbaz, Mulani, Saurabh, Washington are pretty good spin bowling allrounders...whose career coincides unfortunately with Axar, Ashwin and Jadeja.
Jalaj Saxena at 35 is still the top Ranji wicket taker and he is an off spin bowling allrounder.
India could put together a team full of bowling allrounders in home conditions
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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 9:51 am

Re: Shams Mulani
Performing for Mumbai should always be taken seriously..for the bar of performance is really high to get into Mumbai Ranji trophy

Arzan Nagaswalla is also doing very well in all forms of FC cricket as a seamer.
Mumbai full strength Ranji team could hold on as in independent test side
SKY, Jaiswal, Sarfaraz, Shreyas Iyer, Prthivi Shaw, Rahane, Shivam Dube are all Mumbai batters
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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 10:24 am

KP_fan wrote:They might perform better if allowed to split and play as independent half a dozen or so island nations. At least 3 or 4 of them  will better the likes of Sco, Ire, Afg, Nepal, Ned etal.

That would just make them even weaker and even poorer.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 4:36 pm

Ball is turning square and it's only morning of D2
Even an Indian groundsman would have struggled to make a pitch assisting spin so much
Wonder if Bcci made a polite request ?
A wicket will bring a cluster
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Post by king_carlos Thu 13 Jul 2023, 4:56 pm

For a while there's been talk in parts of the Windies and South Africa especially about how the nature of their pitches has altered with climate change. Both are seeing more and more pitches that are basically subcontinental.

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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 5:05 pm

I mean, it is turning but the only bowler that's looked threatening is Cornwall, and he's gone off because he's struggling with the heat. West Indies had one optimistic shout for LBW, plus a review for caught behind (not overturned), and that's all they've had for the session.

66/0 in that session and India's dominance continues.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 7:06 pm

I was worried Cornwall might be getting a heart attack.
Not many leave field complaining of a  heart /chest ache.
Warren has turned square but not hit right lengths. And Indian openers have played well
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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 7:35 pm

Pitch ain't easy at all now
A wicket can bring the entire house crumbling like a pack of cards
WI would be yearning for Cornwall to be back.
I
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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 7:38 pm

DRS I bet didn't capture the ball spinning from.leg to off and straightening
That one that kohli survived looked like hitting middle
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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 7:40 pm

I have often noted DRS is not representative for pitches that have unusually high or low bounce
Or start spinning unexpectedly.

I.e when reality is different from default calibrations of DRS for bounce and spin
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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 8:06 pm

So West Indies getting a couple of wickets close to tea. Athanaze's parttime offspin accounted for the skipper soon after he brought up his ton, and Shubman Gill was done in by Warrican for 6. The new ball is there for the taking. Virat Kohli has everything to lose here. Has a platform, the attack is missing real sting, they've been brought to submission by the openers, India is way ahead in the game. Can he get a score of substance?

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 8:14 pm

West Indies continuing with Athanaze and Warrican. Haven't been following the game on TV currently. What is the latest on Cornwall? Was watching the game at the time he went off. Like KPF said, I was a bit worried. He was bowling really well at that time, really giving the ball a rip and getting it to properly spin. Don't know why they pick the likes of Warrican. He of course has got a few to go of late, but he's not really a spinner who turns the ball much. Could have continued with Roston Chase, would have given the batting some depth at least...

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Post by msp83 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 8:26 pm

West Indies just continuing to stick with Athanaze and Warrican. No sign of pace. Kohli and Jaiswal also showing no sign of trying to get a move on. They really aren't able to get a lot away as of now. 264-2.

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Post by KP_fan Thu 13 Jul 2023, 8:55 pm

msp83 wrote:West Indies just continuing to stick with Athanaze and Warrican. No sign of pace. Kohli and Jaiswal also showing no sign of trying to get a move on. They really aren't able to get a lot away as of now. 264-2.

Pitch is very difficult to score runs off
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Post by Duty281 Thu 13 Jul 2023, 10:09 pm

Just a complete day of dominance for India. It's a slow pitch and the outfield is sluggish, so no surprise about slow scoring rates. Batting conditions have been very good, no hint of a collapse or any problems, and India have been happy to apply the grind.

There is turn, but it's fairly slow turn, and the only West Indian bowler who looked capable of exploiting the conditions and being a consistent threat went off with a chest infection (hopefully not too serious). Otherwise the West Indian bowlers haven't been up to the task. They've used nine different bowlers, which I think is very telling.

But a day to remember for Jaiswal, 143*, and having a punt at Lara's record on debut. Very Happy

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Post by msp83 Fri 14 Jul 2023, 9:14 am

Great debut indeed for Jaiswal. He has been brilliant on red ball debuts even in domestic cricket, starting off with hundreds on Ranji, Duleep and Irani debuts as well. As KPF mentioned above, there are areas he can work on in terms of technique. If his recent IPL evolution is any indication, Yashasvi is a quick learner. But what really stands out from this debut innings is his temperament. Weathered the tough periods with a great deal of composure and refused to get hurried. He also showed that he can be unorthodox as well.
Kohli didn't look anywhere near the Kohli of old. Wasn't too troubled after those early moments, but just didn't look to be flowing... Perhaps the pitch has a role in that as well. Lets see how he goes today.
Cornwal's was a massive blow for the West Indies. With the amount of spin he gets, its strange that he didn't play any test cricket for the best part of 2 years for the WI. Modi, Warrican, Permaul, Cornwall spins the ball more than any of them...
Will he be able to resume today?

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Post by KP_fan Fri 14 Jul 2023, 9:55 am

msp83 wrote:
Cornwal's was a massive blow for the West Indies. With the amount of spin he gets, its strange that he didn't play any test cricket for the best part of 2 years for the WI.

I am surprised Cornwall plays at all.
He does not meet anywhere close to the standards for Modern international athletes
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Post by msp83 Fri 14 Jul 2023, 12:07 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Cornwal's was a massive blow for the West Indies. With the amount of spin he gets, its strange that he didn't play any test cricket for the best part of 2 years for the WI.  

I am surprised Cornwall plays at all.
He does not meet anywhere close to the standards for Modern international athletes
Yes, fitness is not the big man's strongpoint for sure! But he has serious ability. And for a mediocre side with even more mediocre spinners, I feel he's the better option. If he works a bit on his fitness, would have been great... What is the latest on his health?

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Post by KP_fan Fri 14 Jul 2023, 1:27 pm

msp83 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:
Cornwal's was a massive blow for the West Indies. With the amount of spin he gets, its strange that he didn't play any test cricket for the best part of 2 years for the WI.  

I am surprised Cornwall plays at all.
He does not meet anywhere close to the standards for Modern international athletes
Yes, fitness is not the big man's strongpoint for sure! But he has serious ability. And for a mediocre side with even more mediocre spinners, I feel he's the better option.
WI historcially have had some great spinners and even in lats two decades they have produced good to moderately-good spinners 2 or 3 all the time in last 15 years
Sulaiman Benn, Permaul, Warricun, Sunil Narine, Badri, Bishoo Chase, Gudakesh Mottie, Perry, Yannic Carreah are some that I can remember are some that I can recollect lately
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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jul 2023, 2:46 pm

Jaiswal might become the first Indian to score a double century on test debut. Highest score ever on test debut was Foster's 287 in 1903, Jaiswal is about halfway there.

That's about all the interest I can find in today's play!

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Post by KP_fan Fri 14 Jul 2023, 7:55 pm

India played to give Kohli a chance to knock off an easy 100 but he couldn't.
And then when Ishan capable.of smashing a 50 off 20 balls took a run off 20 balls did realizations come....pitch is too difficult to bat.
And maybe there is some rain forecast ....therefore came the declaration.

And after the charade of giving seamers an over or two each....came spinners from both ends
And it's spitting cobras the pitch.....it's been like this from D2...just that WI didn't have resources to exploit.
WI would do well to get into 3 figures .

Cynics would say bcci "requested" and influenced poor Dominicans to produce a Bunsen Burner.
And when Bcci saw one bowler capable of exploting this square turner they prayed and arranged some magic to get hold your breath "retired due to chest infection" for the first time in a test
And coincidentally all marginal decisions gone Indian way
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Post by KP_fan Fri 14 Jul 2023, 8:13 pm

WI take 2 reviews clear daylight between bat and pad and ball hitting middle and middle leg stumps
Look like first 3 given lbw will claim and use up DRS quota
34-4
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Post by Duty281 Fri 14 Jul 2023, 10:17 pm

So sad, not remotely a contest. India winning by an innings and 141 runs.

Another reminder of how far the West Indies have fallen.

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Post by KP_fan Fri 14 Jul 2023, 10:56 pm

Duty281 wrote:So sad, not remotely a contest. India winning by an innings and 141 runs.

Another reminder of how far the West Indies have fallen.

One wil find many scorecards of top teams like Aus, SA, Eng looking similar in defeats to India in India on similar pitches that are in plenty in India.
Can't blame WI much

They needed a Green Top to give them a sniff of a win
Or at the least a very flat patta to be competitive
This looked like a pitch customized to BCCI order
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Post by msp83 Sat 15 Jul 2023, 1:09 pm

Hope we'll have a green top for the next game. At least, there will be something to take home for India after the series, a decent challenge... West Indies seamers, Roach, Joseph and Holder can still be a handful. But they should give themselves a chance... Get a fast pitch, get Gabriel back for Warrican. And give young Mckenzie a chance for reifer or Blackwood.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 15 Jul 2023, 4:39 pm

More test cricket tomorrow. Sri Lanka hosting Pakistan for two tests, exactly a year to the day that Sri Lanka hosted Pakistan for two tests (the series was drawn 1-1). An interesting symmetry. It will be the opening game for both in the WTC. Expected teams below:

Sri Lanka (probable): 1 Dimuth Karunaratne (capt), 2 Nishan Madhushka, 3 Kusal Mendis, 4 Angelo Mathews, 5 Dinesh Chandimal, 6 Dhananjaya de Silva, 7 Sadeera Samarawickrama (wk), 8 Ramesh Mendis, 9 Prabath Jayasuriya, 10 Dilshan Madushanka, 11 Vishwa Fernando/Praveen Jayawickrama.

Pakistan (probable): 1 Abdullah Shafique, 2 Imam-ul-Haq, 3 Shan Masood, 4 Babar Azam (capt), 5 Sarfaraz Ahmed (wk), 6 Saud Shakeel, 7 Agha Salman, 8 Mohammad Nawaz, 9 Naseem Shah, 10 Abrar Ahmed, 11 Shaheen Shah Afridi.


Biggest news is that Shaheen will play his first test in a year, after recovering from injury. With the World Cup around the corner, this is the last new test series until late November. Should be two close games, both teams look well matched, maybe a slight edge to Pakistan?

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