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Champions Cup; and the other one if someone wants to comment

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 08 Dec 2023, 9:47 am

Couldn't see another thread on a quick look so sorry if I've missed it.

This weeks fixtures as follows (lifted from the beeb):

Friday
POOL 1
Connacht v Bordeaux Bègles
20:00

POOL 3
Glasgow Warriors v Northampton Saints
20:00

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 3
ASM Clermont Auvergne v Edinburgh
20:00

....Guernsey vs Bury St Edmonds as well which is a biggy

Saturday
POOL 1
Bulls v Saracens
17:30

Bristol v Lyon
20:00

POOL 2
Bath v Ulster
15:15

Toulouse v Cardiff Rugby
15:15

POOL 3
Toulon v Exeter Chiefs
13:00

Munster v Bayonne
17:30

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 1
Zebre v Cheetahs
13:00

Sharks v Pau
15:15

Dragons v Oyonnax
20:00

POOL 2
Ospreys v Benetton
17:30

POOL 3
Black Lion v Gloucester
13:00

Castres v Scarlets
15:15

Sunday
POOL 2
Racing 92 v Harlequins
17:30

POOL 4
Sale v Stade Francais
13:00

La Rochelle v Leinster
15:15

Leicester Tigers v Stormers
15:15

EUROPEAN CHALLENGE CUP
POOL 2
Perpignan v Lions
13:00

Newcastle Falcons vMontpellier
15:15



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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 08 Dec 2023, 9:48 am

Glasgow Northampton should be a great game tonight.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Fri 08 Dec 2023, 11:48 am

I'll call it now. Both scottish teams to pull off victories in round 1.
Munster and Ulster with TBP wins, Connacht and Leinster with plucky LBP losses.
Bristol to trip up against Lyon while Exeter take out Toulon in Toulon.
Games against the Parisiens, I have no idea for either fixture.
Cardiff might be cannon fodder in Toulouse.
Bulls and Saracens should be a gem of a game. Saracens win and it's called a classic for the ages, Saracens lose and it will be blamed on travel (journos have both articles already written up!!).

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 08 Dec 2023, 12:18 pm

Can see Glasgow-Saints as a modern day equivalent of the dreaded Scottish schiltrons against the thin English line.  At least this time the noble English will be bedecked in Black, Green, and Gold (which would have done better historically than the traditional English cathouse Fire Engine red)

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 08 Dec 2023, 12:50 pm

Apropos of nothing:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-stars-testicle-explodes-freak-24642198

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Post by king_carlos Fri 08 Dec 2023, 1:56 pm

Stormers wrote:DHL Stormers: 15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Courtnall Skosan, 13 Suleiman Hartzenberg, 12 Jean-Luc du Plessis, 11 Ben Loader, 10 Jurie Matthee, 9 Paul de Wet, 8 Keke Morabe, 7 Willie Engelbrecht, 6 Nama Xaba, 5 Connor Evans, 4 Hendre Stassen, 3 Brok Harris (captain), 2 Scarra Ntubeni, 1 Sti Sithole.
Replacements: 16: JJ Kotze, 17 Kwenzo Blose, 18 Lee-Marvin Mazibuko, 19 Dylan Sjoblom, 20 Junior Pokomela, 21 Marcel Theunissen, 22 Stefan Ungerer, 23 Cornel Smit.

Tigers wrote:15 Freddie Steward [75]

14 Josh Bassett [9]

13 Matt Scott [69]

12 Solomone Kata [5]

11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [10]

10 Handré Pollard [19]

9 Ben Youngs [306]

1 Francois Van Wyk [40]

2 Julián Montoya (c) [46]

3 Dan Cole [314]

4 Ollie Chessum [47]

5 Cameron Henderson [46]

6 Hanro Liebenberg [95]

7 Tommy Reffell [105]

8 Jasper Wiese [65]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Archie Vanes [10]

17 James Cronin [21]

18 Joe Heyes [130]

19 Harry Wells [183]

20 Kyle Hatherell [6]

21 Tom Whiteley [15]

22 Jamie Shillcock [11]

23 Dan Kelly [66]

Stormers have gone with somewhere between a 2nd and 3rd team. Their next 4 games after this are at home. Clearly they've just decided to not put the travel miles on the first XV for one week.

Tigers full noise but for injuries. About the nearest thing to rotation is Cronin on the bench instead of starting. It should be a very straightforward win unless there's an epic s**ting of the bed.

I'm expecting a good bit of rotation away from home such as that in this group. Leinster and La Rochelle should stroll to 2 of the 4 qualifying spots. Then Sale, Stade, Tigers and Stormers will likely take wins off each other. I could see a lot of rotation from those 4 away from home, especially in this first 2 rounds. Try to get a good win at home in front of the season ticket holders. Give the big boys a rest on the road. Then reassess the table before the latter rounds.

Tigers and Sale have the downside of playing both Leinster and La Rochelle. Whereas Stormers and Stade avoid one of them as they play in the same domestic leagues. I think either Prem side would do pretty well to sneak through on BPs or PD after getting 2 wins from 4.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri 08 Dec 2023, 2:23 pm

Nobody cares about the Champions Cup. Challenge Cup is definitely where it is at. All eyes on Rodney Parade, where (in exciting news for all) Wales U20 star Harri Ackerman is in line to make his Dragons debut.

My Dragons, your Dragons, our Dragons: Jordan Williams; Rio Dyer, Sio Tomkinson, Steff Hughes (captain), Ashton Hewitt; Will Reed, Rhodri Williams; Rhodri Jones, Elliot Dee, Lloyd Fairbrother, Joe Davies, George Nott, Ryan Woodman, Harri Keddie, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Brodie Coghlan, Aki Seiuli, Chris Coleman, Sean Lonsdale, George Young, Dane Blacker, Harri Ackerman, Corey Baldwin.

Oyonnax: Maxime Salles; Souleymane Coulibaly, Leo Treilles, Pedro Bettencourt (captain), Joe Ravouvou; Jules Soulan, Charlie Cassang; Rory Sutherland, Manu Leiataua, Irakli Mirtskhulava, Victor Lebas, Steve Mafi, Filimo Taofifenua, Hugo Hermet, Loic Godener.

Replacements: Julien Ratajczak, Adrien Bordenave, Antonin Corso, Ewan Johnson, Ilan El Khattabi, David Odiase, Alexis Pisani, Thibault Berthaud.

Referee: Eoghan Cross (Ireland).

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 08 Dec 2023, 2:39 pm

doctor_grey wrote:Apropos of nothing:https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/rugby-stars-testicle-explodes-freak-24642198

yup. not clicking on that.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 08 Dec 2023, 2:41 pm

La Rochelle vs Leinster aside it does feel like there's a whole ton of meh in the fixture list.

Bulls and Sarries have both gone strong. That could be a decent game.

Bath and Ulster might be a reasonably even matchup looking at the teams. Will Stuart and Beno Obano against Kitshoff and O'Toole from an international perspective.

Toulouse away is a tough fixture for Cardiff. Looking at teams that could be a proper pumping.

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Post by mountain man Fri 08 Dec 2023, 4:07 pm

Just listened to the BBC podcast on the Champions Cup launch and Dom Mckay the EPCR chairman interviewed, he was asked two straight forward questions about format, ie explain it and also why are Leinster and La Rochelle in same pool. He singularly failed to provide answers to either question, just waffled on about what a great match up it will be etc.

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Post by king_carlos Fri 08 Dec 2023, 4:49 pm

- Four pools of 6 teams
- 2 teams from each league in each pool
- You play the 4 teams from the other leagues once
- Top 4 in each pool go through to last 16 which starts the KOs

Last years ERCC winners (La Rochelle) and the 3 domestic league winners (Sarries, Toulouse and Munster) were put in separate pools. Then they were drawn at random to get 2 from each league in each pool. So Leinster ended up in the same pool as La Rochelle by putting out the shags in their URC semi and getting done by the mighty Munstermen.

It's just a different variation of a messy group stage followed by 4 rounds of KOs.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 08 Dec 2023, 8:04 pm

The opposing teams and supporters in the Warriors-Saints match will be disparaged on the Glasgow thread....

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Post by mountain man Sat 09 Dec 2023, 8:29 am

king_carlos wrote:- Four pools of 6 teams
- 2 teams from each league in each pool
- You play the 4 teams from the other leagues once
- Top 4 in each pool go through to last 16 which starts the KOs

Last years ERCC winners (La Rochelle) and the 3 domestic league winners (Sarries, Toulouse and Munster) were put in separate pools. Then they were drawn at random to get 2 from each league in each pool. So Leinster ended up in the same pool as La Rochelle by putting out the shags in their URC semi and getting done by the mighty Munstermen.

It's just a different variation of a messy group stage followed by 4 rounds of KOs.

Yes I know how it all works, it was a comment on how a lot of people do not answer straight forward questions put to them. In this case it was ex England player Chris Ashton who didn't know pool format and Sara Orchard wanting to know about Leinster/La Rochelle.



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Post by doctor_grey Sat 09 Dec 2023, 2:36 pm

Watching Toulon-Exeter at the moment. Toulon ahead by 6 with 15 mins to go at the moment, but neither team seems all that.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 09 Dec 2023, 2:51 pm

That's a very special effort from Exeter. Full credit.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 09 Dec 2023, 2:51 pm

That was some finish.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 09 Dec 2023, 2:53 pm

70 minutes of a rather mediocre match turned into a pretty exciting last 10 minutes.  Exe just snuck it in as time expired.  But they did not look great.  Not a lot of movement without the ball for starters. In his post-match Charles Ollivon was clearly gutted. Toulon was shut out in the second half.

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 2:58 pm

Good win for Exeter. Pretty good weekend for English clubs so far, two away wins is not to be sniffed at.
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Post by Geordie Sat 09 Dec 2023, 3:47 pm

What a pass by Spencer!!

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 4:24 pm

I sometimes wonder if Bath are the rugby equivalent of being 'Spursy'
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Post by carpet baboon Sat 09 Dec 2023, 4:41 pm

To me Bath are the English Ulster. Can look great at times but ultimately win nothing. It's very depressing

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 5:01 pm

Bit of a d1cking now. Building on earlier themes, two away wins and home stomping, are reports of the death of the Premiership premature? Let's see if Sarries can keep it going. My wife is officially describing herself as a rugby widow at this point...
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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 5:36 pm

Seems like there is barely anybody in the crowd...
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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 5:45 pm

The Bulls are ripping Sarries to shreads atm, they are not into the pace of this game at all.

Got away with thst second try with a forward pass, a bit lucky!



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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:01 pm

Unbelievably ridiculous penalty/ yellow card.  Goode didn't move, what is he supposed to do? Disappear into thin air????


Last edited by Cumbrian on Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:01 pm

That was a pretty harsh YC on Goode

Did not look loke he moved that much. Bulls would have scored though if the winger had passed and not kicked

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Post by Heaf Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:05 pm

Officials are poor in this one - don't recognise the ref and can't quite place the accent ...

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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:08 pm

Sarries living dangerously, but hanging in there

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Post by Heaf Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:08 pm

Italian apparently - doesn't sound it

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Post by Cumbrian Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:08 pm

This is ridiculous, they guy was nearly in the stands!
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Post by doctor_grey Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:24 pm

Bulls have left a few tries out there. Clearly the better team in the 1st half, but it would be a mistake for them to let Sarries hang around too long. That could come back to bite them.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:32 pm

Heaf wrote:Italian apparently - doesn't sound it
Andrea Piardi, Italy.  Looked him up and he is a young'un and has been officiating top level club games for a few years.

Copied this from some web site I never heard of (medium.com), so take it with a pinch of salt:  
Andrea Piardi will become the first Italian to referee a Guinness Six Nations meeting when Ireland host Wales in the third round of the 2024 Guinness Six Nations Championship. Piardi is one of three referees who will make their debut in the championship, along with Frenchman Pierre Brousset and Englishman Christophe Ridley.

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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 6:59 pm

That one is going to count!

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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 7:06 pm

That was just a bit of frustration from BV, but it was stupid and cost him a RC

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Post by BigGee Sat 09 Dec 2023, 7:44 pm

Well neither side going to be happy with that result

Sarries, going home with nothing and Bulls not managing to seal the BP. That might be important down the line.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 09 Dec 2023, 8:30 pm

BigGee wrote:Well neither side going to be happy with that result

Sarries, going home with nothing and Bulls not managing to seal the BP. That might be important down the line.
And Bulls butchered a few other scoring chances as well as having a lot of time with Sarries a man down.

And by the way, what was Billy V. thinking, if at all?

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 09 Dec 2023, 8:51 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well neither side going to be happy with that result

Sarries, going home with nothing and Bulls not managing to seal the BP. That might be important down the line.
And Bulls butchered a few other scoring chances as well as having a lot of time with Sarries a man down.

And by the way, what was Billy V. thinking, if at all?

It was just so clumsy from BillyV. Reckless, in no control.

The yellow card for Itoje was just dumb as well. What was he thinking. Sarries discipline was woeful. Two yellow cards and then a red, 3/4s of the game down a man is always going to make it a huge ask to get a result.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 09 Dec 2023, 10:00 pm

Did the Dragons lose?

No.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 09 Dec 2023, 11:18 pm

Two games I’ve been able to attend at Dragons and they’ve got their only two wins this season Wink

It looked like it would be a draw for ages. Wind was ridiculous and Dragons didn’t play with it all that well in the second half. To score three tries in the last five minutes for a BP is very good though. Their left winger looked like he could’ve been got at by Rio a bit, but we didn’t really create a lot. Reed wasn’t great. The injury to Sio probably forces us to play Owen next week, which would be good for us.

Wainwright quality again. Dragons scrum went well. Lineout not perfect, but wind was horrendous as I said.

Would be handy to back it up next week in Pau, where we managed to win last season.

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Post by Heaf Sun 10 Dec 2023, 12:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well neither side going to be happy with that result

Sarries, going home with nothing and Bulls not managing to seal the BP. That might be important down the line.
And Bulls butchered a few other scoring chances as well as having a lot of time with Sarries a man down.

And by the way, what was Billy V. thinking, if at all?

It was just so clumsy from BillyV. Reckless, in no control.

The yellow card for Itoje was just dumb as well. What was he thinking. Sarries discipline was woeful. Two yellow cards and then a red, 3/4s of the game down a man is always going to make it a huge ask to get a result.

Thought the first yellow was highly dubious though ...

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Post by carpet baboon Sun 10 Dec 2023, 12:34 pm

Cumbrian wrote:Bit of a d1cking now.  Building on earlier themes, two away wins and home stomping, are reports of the death of the Premiership premature?  Let's see if Sarries can keep it going. My wife is officially describing herself as a rugby widow at this point...

I don't think the majority of people were claiming the teams weren't good enough, as there is clearly very very talented players and teams playing throughout the prem, I think people were more commenting on the structure, and leadership of the PRL and RFU.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:07 pm

Well Opoku-Fordjour is going to get some game time if schonert is off for anything other than an hia.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:10 pm

And wins a pen in the first reset scrum.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:13 pm

Ford having a tough start.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:18 pm

Props down like the plague.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:19 pm

And then another hia. 3 in total?could be a red here too. In the old world at least!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:19 pm

Lol. Rugby incident now.

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Post by Heaf Sun 10 Dec 2023, 1:53 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol. Rugby incident now.

Just catching up on recording - I think Curry needs to apply to have his red card expunged from his record now.

Dayglow still showing he has no clue saying there was no intent so OK ....

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 2:00 pm

For of a question on that incident for me was how it was dealt with on a safety front. To me he looked visibly out of it which should have resulted in a permanent sub.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 10 Dec 2023, 2:38 pm

Quirkes made a real difference since he's come on.

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