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Ireland vs Italy

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Ireland vs Italy Empty Ireland vs Italy

Post by bsando Wed 07 Feb 2024, 7:44 pm

Ireland vs Italy

Date: Sunday 11th February 2024
Venue: Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick-off: 3:00pm
Referee: Luke Pearce (England)

TV Coverage: Live on ITV (UK) and Virgin Media (ROI)

Teams

Ireland
[tbc]

Italy
[tbc]

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Post by Unclear Wed 07 Feb 2024, 8:58 pm

Thanks for setting up the thread bsando!

There is no need for any changes but I would like to see some rotation in the Ireland squad, particularly in the front row, but don't expect it. Efforts need to be made to get a replacement for Healey. A great servant to his club and country but his time has come and Loughman needs experience. Again O'Toole needs more exposure even if only on the bench. I can't see Farrell going with both on the bench, I think Loughman should be the priority.

It's very early to be resting anyone, but I think there could be some fun to had with bringing Big Joe off the bench with 20 - 30 minutes to go. It would be good to get Ryan and Henderson gametime but hardly a priority.

Again no need for changes in the backs, but perhaps getting someone (Larmour?) experience at full back would be good.

After that over-confidence, what price a shock from Italy?

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 07 Feb 2024, 9:20 pm

Italy have a chance but perhaps less so in Dublin. Id like Kelleher to start and some prop rotation too. I worry about 9 and prop the most, we have no one any where near the quality of JGP and Porter.

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Post by Pete330v2 Thu 08 Feb 2024, 9:25 am

Whilst there's a big drop-off in class in the heirs to both JGP and Porter's thrones we really don't need that level against Italy anyway. Yes Italy look to have improved over the last couple of seasons but they're still a way's off getting a win at the Aviva.....sorry Lansdowne.
This may come across as a little arrogant, it isn't, it's realistic (how dare I preach realism when I still refer to Lansdowne Road as Lansdowne Road).
There's not need for wholesale changes, that level of disruption would be severely detrimental to the level of performance expected. Just look at last year how playing 2 out and out 12's in the centre simply didn't work regardless of both players' form at the time.Also, I've read that Ringrose could be deemed fit for the encounter but he doesn't need to be, his services will be better utilised from the 24th onwards.

Farrell knows that he needs to rotate, the RWC being the greatest example of that but he also knows the need for continuity as there's no room for team momentum to stutter because first choice players deserve a break. Two players I do think deserve a break are Beirne and McCarthy, the latter perhaps only getting that break with a move to the bench. Ryan and Hendo starting with McCarthy ripping up trees after 50 minutes or so would be an idea. VDF and POM will probably remain but Conan might have a starting berth with Doris benching, then again probably not. After that would you start Casey with Crowley? They know eachother's games extremely well so why not. Beyond that there's no need to mess about too much, Larmour at 14 perhaps?

When is the 23 announced? Tomorrow?

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Post by mountain man Thu 08 Feb 2024, 9:39 am

Cannot see anything other than a massive win for Ireland.
Only issue they might have is a key player picking up an injury in match which could rule them out for the tougher matches ahead.

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Post by Collapse2005 Thu 08 Feb 2024, 10:11 pm

Looks like Ireland will make quite a few changes. McCloskey, Baird, Ryan, Murray, Bealham, Conan all to start.

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Post by Unclear Thu 08 Feb 2024, 10:28 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Looks like Ireland will make quite a few changes. McCloskey, Baird, Ryan, Murray, Bealham, Conan all to start.

All those guys have shown that they can make the step up so no great worries if this is the case. But being glass half empty what about loosehead, full back, and (after Murray gets told he can't take a zimmer frame onto the field) scrum half? This is a chance to try something in one of those positions.

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Post by Pete330v2 Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:54 am

Too much tinkering or not enough?
There's a fine balance but I think Larmour deserves a chance to start a match, Nash doesn't impress me at all be that a popular opinion or not but maybe I miss the finer details of what he brings to the party. I just don't see what others including Farrell see. Murray starts because of his experience and decision making despite his tempo not being what it should be. I do think his decision making v Casey's may have swung the balance but I'd have loved to have seen Casey start to pair up with Crowley.

Thornley's side is well and truly good enough though.

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 09 Feb 2024, 1:59 pm


Ireland Team & Replacements (v Italy, Guinness Men’s Six Nations, Aviva Stadium, Sunday, February 11)
15. Hugo Keenan (UCD/Leinster)(37)
14. Calvin Nash (Young Munster/Munster) (2)
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Leinster)(68)
12. Stuart McCloskey (Bangor/Ulster)(15)
11. James Lowe (Leinster)(27)
10. Jack Crowley (Cork Constitution/Munster)(10)
9. Craig Casey (Shannon/Munster)(13)

1. Andrew Porter (UCD/Leinster)(60)
2. Dan Sheehan (Lansdowne/Leinster)(22)
3. Finlay Bealham (Buccaneers/Connacht)(37)
4. Joe McCarthy (Dublin University/Leinster)(6)
5. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster)(60)
6. Ryan Baird (Dublin University/Leinster)(16)
7. Caelan Doris (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(37)(captain)
8. Jack Conan (Old Belvedere/Leinster)(42)

Replacements:

16. Ronan Kelleher (Lansdowne/Leinster)(27)
17. Jeremy Loughman (Garryowen/Munster)(4)
18. Tom O’Toole (Ballynahinch/Ulster)(12)
19. Iain Henderson (Academy/Ulster)(79)
20. Josh van der Flier (UCD/Leinster)(58)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster)(31)
22. Harry Byrne (UCD/Leinster)(2)
23. Jordan Larmour (St Mary’s College/Leinster)(30).

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 09 Feb 2024, 2:04 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:Too much tinkering or not enough?
There's a fine balance but I think Larmour deserves a chance to start a match, Nash doesn't impress me at all be that a popular opinion or not but maybe I miss the finer details of what he brings to the party. I just don't see what others including Farrell see. Murray starts because of his experience and decision making despite his tempo not being what it should be. I do think his decision making v Casey's may have swung the balance but I'd have loved to have seen Casey start to pair up with Crowley.

Thornley's side is well and truly good enough though.

I have to say I am impressed by Nash, though he fit in well v France albeit it was an easy one in the end for a 6N debut. He has impressed me with Munster too.

Not sold really on Craig Casey though, just feel he is such a step down from JGP. That dummy that JGP threw before his try against France to check Penaud's run was absolutely brilliant play, I just dont think you get that level of class from Casey nor from anyone else in contention to replace JGP to be fair.

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 09 Feb 2024, 2:05 pm

I would have liked to see lamour or Frawley start at 15, and Timoney on the bench. But that team will do the job needed

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Post by geoff999rugby Fri 09 Feb 2024, 4:04 pm

Selected is spot on for me

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Post by Unclear Fri 09 Feb 2024, 5:40 pm

Aah come on guys, it can't be perfect. We need a bit of a debate or the rest of the site will think we don't care boxing

Good to see Casey and McCloskey starting. Before the RWC I would have had Big Stu ahead of Bundee, but that looks a pretty poor view in hindsight. It doesn't make McCloskey a poor option though (despite playing for Ulster). Casey offers something different to Murray but needs more experience in my view, and this is a great opportunity.

Loughman and O'Toole need plenty of time off the bench, and should be okay against an Italian scrum that didn't appear too destructive against England. I'd have started Henderson just for the entertainment of seeing McCarthy running at a tired Italian side in the last 20minutes.

I still think Larmour should come off the bench to play full back. I don't really rate him in that position but we don't seem to be developing a back-up to Keenan, the rock supporting the whole of the defence. Keenan seems pretty bullet-proof, but an injury to him gives me a big cause for concern.

Nothing very contentious there, so unlikely to spawn 20+ pages (of tedium) like the England thread or a gazillion pages of indecipherable nicknames like the Scottish threads, but it may be a start Hug

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:05 pm

What an epic game against the Italy under 20s!

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Post by carpet baboon Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:07 pm

Anyone else just watch the U20s? Italy played brilliantly Ireland weren't at their best but still won. Cracking game

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Post by Yoda Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:18 pm

Many changes but Sheesh an embarrassment of riches. When Ian Henderson is fourth choice 😳.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:04 pm

Crikey, that was a good rendition of Ireland's Call.

Fair play.

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Post by BigGee Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:24 pm

Italy hanging in

Ireland making a few mistakes as well this week

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Post by BigGee Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:29 pm

12-0 Ireland with a second score to the green boys.

Italy need to score next or they may be in big trouble

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:33 pm

Crowley having a great match, Casey not having his best.

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Post by BigGee Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:38 pm

The Irish scrum is going to win them this game, they are destroying Italy


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Post by Duty281 Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:43 pm

Italy heading for their 50th defeat in their last 52 Six Nations games!

What is the point of them still being in the Six Nations? The weekend jolly to Rome?

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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:48 pm

Duty281 wrote:Italy heading for their 50th defeat in their last 52 Six Nations games!

What is the point of them still being in the Six Nations? The weekend jolly to Rome?

Italy are now a decent side and playing ok - they are just up against Ireland.

The other 4 teams in the 6Nations would be foolish to take them for granted

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Post by BigGee Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:49 pm

Exactly, Italy won't be the only side to get a kicking from this Irish team!


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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 11 Feb 2024, 3:51 pm

Bealham showing what we have seen all year - he is currently ahead of Furlong in the scrum.

Ireland have an abundance of riches.

4 to 8
Beirne, Ryan, Henderson, McCarthy, O'Mahoney, Conan, Beard, Doris, DeFlier

Two of those players don't even make the 23 if we go with a 5-3 split !

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 11 Feb 2024, 4:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:Italy heading for their 50th defeat in their last 52 Six Nations games!

What is the point of them still being in the Six Nations? The weekend jolly to Rome?

Bit harsh, they almost beat England. Didnt hear any complaints after that game.

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Post by BigGee Sun 11 Feb 2024, 4:17 pm

Greedy from Henshaw

Got white line fever there

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Post by Unclear Sun 11 Feb 2024, 4:51 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Bealham showing what we have seen all year - he is currently ahead of Furlong in the scrum.

Ireland have an abundance of riches.

4 to 8
Beirne, Ryan, Henderson, McCarthy, O'Mahoney, Conan, Beard, Doris, DeFlier

Two of those players don't even make the 23 if we go with a 5-3 split !

Beard shouldn't even be in the Wales team, Ryan Baird though ..... laughing

Don't you just hate auto-correct Hug

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Post by Maine man Sun 11 Feb 2024, 5:00 pm

I'd start Bealham ahead of Furlong against Wales.
Cases still has a lot to learn.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 11 Feb 2024, 5:06 pm

Unclear wrote:

Don't you just hate auto-correct Hug

Yes censored Very Happy

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Post by Collapse2005 Sun 11 Feb 2024, 5:23 pm

Maine man wrote:I'd start Bealham ahead of Furlong against Wales.
Cases still has a lot to learn.

Casey has a great pass but was average enough over all. Crowley was man of the match.

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Post by Maine man Sun 11 Feb 2024, 6:21 pm

Thought Crowley looked very assured.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 12 Feb 2024, 10:14 am

One of my favourite things about Crowley is even when he makes mistakes he acknowledges it then just shrugs it off, no dwelling on it just wants to get back into the game.

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 12 Feb 2024, 10:43 am

My observation on the guys who don't usually play
McCloskey very good solid performance - if Aki is missing he is the obvious successor
Casey good he got the outing but is a big step down from JGP
Bealham was excellent deserves another start
Ryan ok nothing special but definitely behind McCarthy and Beirne in the pecking order now, and for me Henderson as well
Baird showed a lot of promise good performance, a candidate for the bench
Conan had a big game - competition for the backrow is hard. For me DeFlier and Mahoney are fighting to their places. Great to see so many candidates for the backrow.

For the subs I thought Larmour was very poor and Loughman just confirmed there is no show in town after Porter


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Post by Unclear Mon 12 Feb 2024, 11:45 am

geoff999rugby wrote:My observation on the guys who don't usually play
McCloskey very good solid performance - if Aki is missing he is the obvious successor
Casey good he got the outing but is a big step down from JGP
Bealham was excellent deserves another start
Ryan ok nothing special but definitely behind McCarthy and Beirne in the pecking order now, and for me Henderson as well
Baird showed a lot of promise good performance, a candidate for the bench
Conan had a big game - competition for the backrow is hard. For me DeFlier and Mahoney are fighting to their places. Great to see so many candidates for the backrow.

For the subs I thought Larmour was very poor and Loughman just confirmed there is no show in town after Porter


Got to agree with pretty much all of that. Ryan and Hendo fighting for the bench spot, who'd have thought it even last year. Casey has much to learn, but he needs game time to do that. Pretty much the same for Baird but less to learn. Worried about the front row, at it was obvious both O'Toole and particularly Loughman weren't good enough. Can they be coached up in scrum? Great problem to have in the back row though.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 12 Feb 2024, 1:58 pm

Crowley needs to improve his goal kicking a lot but his passing and general play was very very good.

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 12 Feb 2024, 3:39 pm

I'm still not sure why it has to be the 10 who place kicks.
I know Stu McCloskey was a good place kicker, not sure if he still does it but seen him nail some form the touch line.

I'm sure we can find another back who can place kick. Hugo Keenan can do most things, Lowe has a booming left boot. Let him hoof some from the half way line

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Tue 13 Feb 2024, 10:30 am

carpet baboon wrote:I'm still not sure why it has to be the 10 who place kicks.
I know Stu McCloskey was a good place kicker, not sure if he still does it but seen him nail some form the touch line.

I'm sure we can find another back who can place kick. Hugo Keenan can do most things, Lowe has a booming left boot. Let him hoof some from the half way line

Give Sheehan kicking duties, the lad does most things.
I'd have Henderson in front of Ryan. Ryan is a big lump and the kid Joe ticks that box.
Baird is a great impact player in a pack to come on against a tiring opposition.
Crowley has answered everything asked of him so far. Let's not get too delirious and allow the young lad to build up his reps and experience.
Furlong could probably do with a break from Test level or at the very least 50-30 minute splits for the position.
Porter is a class apart in his position. Give it 6 months and the kid Jack Boyle will be a decent support on the depth chart (the lad is already URC level).
Glad Stu got a solid run out, cards never seemed to fall his way when wearing the green jersey in the past.

Tougher opposition to come in the rounds ahead, but looking forward to seeing how this squad approaches it.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 13 Feb 2024, 11:18 am

McCloskey kicking is nowhere good enough and besides that is not in the 23 when everyone is available.
Crowley can kick better than he did on Saturday

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 13 Feb 2024, 3:07 pm

Crowley's kicking is usually far better. Sexton had plenty of days when he left the kicking boots at home so there's nothing to be concerned about there. Unfortunately Larmour of whom I'm a huge fan was absolutely awful when he came on. Should Lenster be concerned about fixing anything about him? Nope, the parts of his game that usually make him so good went missing, probably from frantically wanting to impress. Crowley looks a bit special, a couple of people tentatively mentioned similarities to a young Carter, both were Kiwis by the way. I had thought the same myself during the match but silently reprimanded myself for thinking such things.
Big Stu McCloskey was sublime and had a great outing. He can distribute like few others but will still be behind Bundi who can probably thank Stu's inclusion and form for the rise in his own levels.
Anyway, there's 3 tough games to come, non of them are gimmes despite how the oppostion have looked in the opening rounds. France and Italy might actually be the worst 2 teams in the tournament, yes France, I said it. They were gash against the Scots and should have lost despite the Scots being equally as turgid. Wales have looked dangerous in patches and England likewise. Their standards look a fair way below Ireland's but perhaps, just perhaps we've seen our easiest matches of this 6 nations. The tough challenges may be the ones to come, all 3.

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Post by Unclear Tue 13 Feb 2024, 6:08 pm

Playing Wales and Scotland in Dublin is an advantage and I think we will see them off handily enough. England at Twickenham is more concerning especially as they seem to be being set up as hard to beat before worrying about things like attack. The RWC semi-final showed just how hard to beat they can be, and that game when Steward was red carded was another example. I still think we should win though, but this is sport and injuries, or a split second's inaccuracy leading to a red card could upset the best laid plans.

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