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Hedgefund Harlequins v The Giro Warriors

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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 11:37 am

So! One more sleep before The Battle Of Britain, Episode 4993

So the great unwashed and unemployed will descend upon the former constituency of Zac Goldsmith in saarf west London. oh yeah It looks like it should be a high scoring match with tries aplenty.
Both sides play to a very similar gameplan: no real surprise there as the Investment Analysts are managed by Danny Wilson former Head Coach at The Rugby Club.

There will be a few interesting match ups but the one I'm looking forward to is Bambi Smith v The Rutherglen Ronaldo. (If Dancer is the Messi of rugby then Meatball is the Ronaldo)

I have very little idea what the home side will line up like ; the pack will most likely be seven posh fat boys and Joe Marler, while the backs will be a pensioner at 9, Bambi at 10 and five other Hooray Henries.

The General has probably known his side for weeks now...but has forgotten to tell me.
Here's my definites;
1.
2. Turner (Ian Rush)
3. Ragnar (Sordoni)
4. Cummings
5.
6.
7.Darge
8.
9. Hornito (House Elf)
10.
11. Seba
12.
13.
14. Mullet
15. Mckay

Lots of gaps Headscratch But there are one or two players who could play and would mean a rejigging of three or four positions.
Centres
We could see Jordan-Stafford, which would mean Ronaldo at 10. But if Wee Shona is fit then it's Shona-Stafford and possibly Jordan at 10. Just to confuse things...we could see Seaman at 13 with Stafford at 12. Seaman is co-captain and fit again but I can't see the back three being split up for this one so he's either 13 or nothing.
Second row
Cummings is a nailed on starter. Big Richie has been in the FB pix training this week so could be starting. If not then two from Williamson, Samuels and Big Man Jessie should be in the 23.
Back Row
I fully expect Darge-Dempsey-Fagerson, but Matt F was poorly a short while ago so he may be unlucky. Ventner, Gordon, Miller all have a good chance of being in the 23.
Front Row
Loose head, MacBeth, Dell, probably but Bhatti could well be fit.

That's the difference between The General and Cowboy Dave: one had his matchday 23 and we all knew what to expect....the other has an extende squad where everyone has a chance to play and the ability to step up and deliver.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 11:53 am

And the team's up...

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Seba is injured so we get Seaman on the wing. gray and Turner are both crocked too.

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Post by NeilyBroon Thu 04 Apr 2024, 12:12 pm

jimbopip wrote:And the team's up...

1 Nathan McBeth (35)
2 Johnny Matthews (65)
3 Zander Fagerson (140)
4 Max Williamson (11)
5 Scott Cummings (117)
6 Matt Fagerson (103)
7 Rory Darge (41)
8 Jack Dempsey (42)

9 George Horne (110)
10 Tom Jordan (41)
11 Kyle Rowe (12)
12 Sione Tuipulotu (46)
13 Stafford McDowall (73)
14 Kyle Steyn (C) (69)
15 Josh McKay (42)

Replacements

16 Gregor Hiddleston (5)
17 Oli Kebble (98)
18 Lucio Sordoni (28)
19 Sintu Manjezi (20)
20 Ally Miller (27)
21 Henco Venter (13)
22 Jamie Dobie (59)
23 Duncan Weir (146)

Seba is injured so we get Seaman on the wing. gray and Turner are both crocked too.

Tough ask away at harlequins, interesting he's gone with Jordan at 10, let's hope he has a good game there, it's been a while! Glasgow will rely a lot on Stafford and Horne's kicking games you feel...

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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 12:18 pm

One of Jordan's real plusses for me is that he tackles like a 7. I get the feeling that at our level he'd be the kind of player who got older, slower and heavier and went to 7 and played his best rugby. At professional rugby he'll just be a very good 10/12. i hope he can live with the disappointment.
The 6/2 split worries me: but if need be House Elf covers wing, Jordan to 12, Ronaldo to 10 and Stafford can cover 1-15.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 04 Apr 2024, 12:20 pm

For Quins:

Baxter
Walker
Collier
Herbst
Hammond
Lewies
Evans
Dombrandt

Care
Smith
Murley
Esterhuizen
Beard
Lynagh
T Green

Riley
Marler
Lewis
Launchbury
Trenholm
Lawday
M Green
Anderson

My observations:
- Baxter over Marler for the second week in a row has a strong sense of a (fully justified) passing of the baton
- Herbst over Launchbury is interesting - I don't think it's fitness so they may be looking for his defensive abilities over Launchbury's all round game
- Starting XV is very close to full strength
- Quins' bench is a 6:2 split and the forwards are a strong set given Lamb and CCS are injured
- Backs bench is weaker - Porter is our best scum half backup, Anderson is a useful defensive option in the outside backs channels but hasn't stood out in attack. I am guessing that Esterhuizen would be fly half cover if Smith had to come off, or possibly T Green (who was originally listed as a fly half but has made the 15 shirt his own)
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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 12:26 pm

Thanks for the info Poorfour.
Our back row replacements; Ventner, Miller and Big Man Jessie (a 4-6 type) are all pacey, hard running, in your face types. The Quins have had two weeks of second half collapses....will your bench cope?
N.B. I'm not too confident about our replacement front row. As much for the balance as anything.

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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 12:29 pm

Just noticed we have Seaman (69) Shocked hope we don't end up with egg on our face.

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Post by Poorfour Thu 04 Apr 2024, 1:08 pm

jimbopip wrote:Thanks for the info Poorfour.
Our back row replacements; Ventner, Miller and Big Man Jessie (a 4-6 type) are all pacey, hard running, in your face types. The Quins have had two weeks of second half collapses....will your bench cope?
N.B. I'm not too confident about our replacement front row. As much for the balance as anything.

I didn't watch either game live, but the Saracens game was by the sound of things a disaster from start to finish (as they too often are).

The Bath one was more interesting. Watching on replay and knowing what to look out for, what happened was three things. Firstly, Bath started committing more players to the breakdown after half time, and Quins' supply of quick ball dried up. Secondly, and related, the Quins support was getting to the ball slower than in the first half and so some promising breaks came to nothing. Thirdly, once Quins had someone in the bin, Russell was ruthless in exploiting the extra space to create 50:22s - which led to several of Bath's scores.

Quins struggle against teams that deny them quick ball. Ultra quick defensive line speed (or a ref who is lenient on offside) and getting two players into the ruck at pace (or a ref who allows the Exeter tactic of ploughing in with no chance of staying on feet) and Smith doesn't have time to work his magic. He's occasionally overcome that by chipping over an onrushing line a few times to give them pause, but it hasn't always worked.

Let Quins get some front foot ball on what is predicted to be a warm, dry Friday night at the Stoop, though, and they will score.
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Post by jimbopip Thu 04 Apr 2024, 1:18 pm

Poorfour wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Thanks for the info Poorfour.
Our back row replacements; Ventner, Miller and Big Man Jessie (a 4-6 type) are all pacey, hard running, in your face types. The Quins have had two weeks of second half collapses....will your bench cope?
N.B. I'm not too confident about our replacement front row. As much for the balance as anything.

I didn't watch either game live, but the Saracens game was by the sound of things a disaster from start to finish (as they too often are).

The Bath one was more interesting. Watching on replay and knowing what to look out for, what happened was three things. Firstly, Bath started committing more players to the breakdown after half time, and Quins' supply of quick ball dried up. Secondly, and related, the Quins support was getting to the ball slower than in the first half and so some promising breaks came to nothing. Thirdly, once Quins had someone in the bin, Russell was ruthless in exploiting the extra space to create 50:22s - which led to several of Bath's scores.

Quins struggle against teams that deny them quick ball. Ultra quick defensive line speed (or a ref who is lenient on offside) It's an all French officiating team so I think the breakdown laws may be less stringently applied than if it were Wayne Barnes.

and getting two players into the ruck at pace (or a ref who allows the Exeter tactic of ploughing in with no chance of staying on feet) and Smith doesn't have time to work his magic. He's occasionally overcome that by chipping over an onrushing line a few times to give them pause, but it hasn't always worked.

Let Quins get some front foot ball on what is predicted to be a warm, dry Friday night at the Stoop, though, and they will score.
You could say exactly the same for Glasgow. I think Rory Darge is potentially as good as Justin Tipuric at his best and could have a crucial role in this game. Also, I look forward to Demspey and Fagerson running at Marcus Smith.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Thu 04 Apr 2024, 6:13 pm

jimbopip wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Thanks for the info Poorfour.
Our back row replacements; Ventner, Miller and Big Man Jessie (a 4-6 type) are all pacey, hard running, in your face types. The Quins have had two weeks of second half collapses....will your bench cope?
N.B. I'm not too confident about our replacement front row. As much for the balance as anything.

I didn't watch either game live, but the Saracens game was by the sound of things a disaster from start to finish (as they too often are).

The Bath one was more interesting. Watching on replay and knowing what to look out for, what happened was three things. Firstly, Bath started committing more players to the breakdown after half time, and Quins' supply of quick ball dried up. Secondly, and related, the Quins support was getting to the ball slower than in the first half and so some promising breaks came to nothing. Thirdly, once Quins had someone in the bin, Russell was ruthless in exploiting the extra space to create 50:22s - which led to several of Bath's scores.

Quins struggle against teams that deny them quick ball. Ultra quick defensive line speed (or a ref who is lenient on offside)  It's an all French officiating team so I think the breakdown laws may be less stringently applied than if it were Wayne Barnes.

and getting two players into the ruck at pace (or a ref who allows the Exeter tactic of ploughing in with no chance of staying on feet) and Smith doesn't have time to work his magic. He's occasionally overcome that by chipping over an onrushing line a few times to give them pause, but it hasn't always worked.

Let Quins get some front foot ball on what is predicted to be a warm, dry Friday night at the Stoop, though, and they will score.
You could say exactly the same for Glasgow. I think Rory Darge is  potentially as good as Justin Tipuric at his best and could have a crucial role in this game. Also, I look forward to Demspey and Fagerson running at Marcus Smith.  

To be fair to Marcus Smith he tackles above his weight. More so than Russell who is heavily targeted but seldom found wanting in that area as well.

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:05 pm

That was some start from Glasgow

15 phases and score

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:12 pm

Classic Scottish rugby team though, mess up the restart straight after scoring! Glasgow recovered well though

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:15 pm

Tom Jordan needs to be getting more distance on his kicks. He's definitely more of a 12

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:18 pm

Glasgow defence been on point so far, not making it easy for Quins

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:21 pm

Crazy quick throw from Quins

Could be costly!

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:22 pm

BigGee wrote:Crazy quick throw from Quins

Could be costly!

Wtf were they doing

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:31 pm

Good response from Quins

Marcus Smith at his best



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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:47 pm

Penalties are killing Glasgow atm, need to improve or we are dead

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:49 pm

My god Smith is really annoying how he celebrates, its all so overly dramatic.

Glasgow have not had many breaks in this game so far.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:50 pm

Glasgow will be really disappointed in that HT score given how well they started. Discipline has fallen apart.

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:51 pm

21-7 Quins at HT

Hard to argue with that scoreline, apart from the first try we have not been in the game and our penalties are just killing us

Hopefully we can reset at HT

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 05 Apr 2024, 8:56 pm

I was a little worried for Quins after seeing Glasgow's start because they are almost the definition of a 'soft underbelly', but I think they are really good value for the lead. If they'd have kicked a couple of the penalties they turned down, I think they would be close to out of sight (given the penalty count against Glasgow and the worsening weather conditions). Saying that, if anybody could throw this away, Quins could. It will be either a 20 point spanking or a ridiculous loss, good watching either way.
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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:14 pm

Glasgow definitely need a try from all this

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:20 pm

You can't keep Johnny down, Glasgow back into the game!

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:21 pm

And another, the classic Hornito sting!

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:21 pm

What a comeback!

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:21 pm

Nice stuff glasgow

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:22 pm

I went to the loo after Glasgow scored the first saying "I bet I come back and they are level'. Never change Quins...
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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:23 pm

Cummings continuing to make a real mess of gathering restarts. He's no Gilchrist!

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:29 pm

Hornito takes the penalty

24-21 Glasgow

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:30 pm

Not sure about making 5 subs in one go when Glasgow have had all the momentum in the last 10 minutes

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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:32 pm

That's at least a YC

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Post by Collapse2005 Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:42 pm

Feel like Quins will go win this now. Glasgow had their chance.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:48 pm

Could Lawson be anymore biased?! "I've seen them not given?!" It was absolutely a textbook sealing off!
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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:57 pm

Not quite to be for Glasgow. Great game.

Not a bad thing for Glasgow really as they can fully focus on having a proper go on the URC.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:58 pm

I don't even support Quins and I need a lie down, they are bloody ridiculous. They are really lucky, they just didn't come out of the changing rooms in the second half, but credit to Glasgow, they pushed them all the way.
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Post by BigGee Fri 05 Apr 2024, 9:59 pm

Poor kick from Duncy to end the match

That was speculative to say the least

Well done Quins, a tough game to lose, but they dug it out againgst the momentum in the second half


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Post by Rugby Fan Fri 05 Apr 2024, 10:54 pm

Short highlights are up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05xH-KmX3yg

[EDIT] Looks like they put them out too early, as the video has now been blocked.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Sat 06 Apr 2024, 12:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 05 Apr 2024, 11:15 pm

I thought this was a fun game to watch.  I thought it was closer at halftime than the score indicated.  Glasgow had a lot of go forward in the first half but couldn't convert.  Two of Quins tries were during the Tuipulotu yellow.  

Can't say I predicted Glasgow would come back, but I wasn't remotely surprised either.  Was a tough match to have to lose.  Thought the teams were essentially even.

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Post by RDW Fri 05 Apr 2024, 11:58 pm

Complaints from the Glasgow fans about the ref, not surprisingly. He was at least consistent with the lineout technicality penality.

Main gripe was late on when the ref said several times not to play the 9, the guy played the 9 but wasn't then penalised.

Weird game in terms of discipline - Glasgow loads of pens in the first half, 'quins the second.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 06 Apr 2024, 7:35 am

RDW wrote:Complaints from the Glasgow fans about the ref, not surprisingly.  He was at least consistent with the lineout technicality penality.

Main gripe was late on when the ref said several times not to play the 9, the guy played the 9 but wasn't then penalised.

Weird game in terms of discipline - Glasgow loads of pens in the first half, 'quins the second.
I can understand complaints about the referee. I didn't really see him as favouring either side, though as you wrote, Glasgow took a number of pens in the first and Quins more so in the second. Who knows if that means anything. I wasn't always sure what he was seeing.

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Post by jimbopip Sat 06 Apr 2024, 10:18 am

Well, first up...the Quins fans were all decent, friendly folk. Bigson and I had a really jolly time at the Stoop.
Second, I was not overly impressed with the ref.
Third, if's and but's....if we had had Rowe and Seba on the wings things could have been very different. Having seen him live I'm now convinced that Seaman, who I rate very highly as a 13, is not a natural/instinctive winger: his first option is always to cut back inside in order not to be bundled into touch. Instinctive wingers back themselves every time. Great wingers see gaps no-one else does and back themselves.
Fourth... Hornito threw some dreadful passes to Wee Shona, watching him stand still to gather the ball at his ankles, or on one occasion above his head, was cringeworthy. When the House Elf went to 9 the difference was remarkable. Hornito has lots of very good points to his game but passing isn't one of them.
Fifth...at full time the Quins fan behind me said, "I don't know how we won that." I couldn't argue with him.

Oh, and when Hornito scored just in front of us Bigson and I were on our feet screaming like mad things....I looked left and there about 15 yards away was Ian Bru on his feet screaming like a mad thing. Hug

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Post by Poorfour Sat 06 Apr 2024, 11:19 am

The ref missed stuff for both sides and was maddeningly inconsistent at times - there was an odd moment in the first half where he pinged Quins for an accidental offside that didn’t actually affect play, but then let Glasgow so something similar with no consequences. And there was an incredibly harsh penalty against Will Evans for high contact when he was bent double to about knee height and his opponent dipped into him. But I don’t think he made any errors that affected the outcome in the end, though.

As to how Quins won… both sides played well in patches given the slippery conditions, and both made some bad mistakes. Ultimately the difference was that Quins tightened up their defence and survived three long periods in the second half where they didn’t give away penalties and held the Warriors near the 22 until they could force an error. There wasn’t much between the sides apart from that, and a win for either would have been a fair result.

Glad you and Bigson had a good time at the Stoop, jimbopip. It’s a pretty decent place to come.
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Post by Gicater Sat 06 Apr 2024, 3:02 pm

The biggest error the ref made was awarding Quins a scrum for a Glasgow knock on when Fagerson caught Care's arm. That led directly to the yc for Tuipolotu and 14 points for the Quins. The ref may have been unsighted but it's not acceptable that both AR's missed it as well.


Last edited by Gicater on Sat 06 Apr 2024, 3:03 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : name error)

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 06 Apr 2024, 6:56 pm

Gicater wrote:The biggest error the ref made was awarding Quins a scrum for a Glasgow knock on when Fagerson caught Care's arm. That led directly to the yc for Tuipolotu and 14 points for the Quins. The ref may have been unsighted but it's not acceptable that both AR's missed it as well.
To be fair, you are right and it seemed pretty clear on replay.

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