French Top 14

I was hoping to add to an existing thread on the Top 14 but it doesn't look like it has come up in conversation.

Montpellier lost to a second-string Toulouse side at the weekend, which has left them second from bottom. Judging from reports, it seems that Oyonnax get automatically relegated, while Montpellier face a play-off match, to see if they can stay in the Top 14. Montpellier potentially going down seems a big deal, given they won the Top 14 two seasons ago.

If Zach Mercer decides to give up on England, then Montepellier would probably have been his first call. That might change if they were playing in the Pro D2 (unless the money was too good to turn down).

While Racing 92 are still in the top 6, reports say they have had a terrible second half of the season, which might put the spotlight on Stuart Lancaster as coach. Elsewhere, Toulon have overtaken La Rochelle to sit in 4th place. Toulon have three English players (Brookes, Ribbans & Singleton) with Sinckler and Ludlam due to arrive next season.

The problem with the playoff system in the Pro D2 is they still have a number of tough matches before they have to play Montpellier.

Montpellier I would imagine will now rest their stars given they know its coming now. That means they will be fully fit and matched against a team that has just been a fortnight slog to earn the right to play them. Rarely do 2 teams get relegated from the Top14 and its mostly down to this reason. It does happen from time to time but rarely.

Provence are top of D2. Will it be them going up in place of Oyonnax, or do they still need to win the play-off?

mikey_dragon wrote:Provence are top of D2. Will it be them going up in place of Oyonnax, or do they still need to win the play-off?

I believe if you finish top then promotion is automatic. The playoffs is for those in behind.

Wiki says:

"Only the Pro D2 champions will be assured of promotion to the Top 14. The losing finalist will enter a playoff with the second-from-bottom Top 14 side, with the winner taking up the final Top 14 place."

Montpellier resting their players is in theory a good idea but momentum and confidence could well play a part. Winning or losing can be a habit. More likely Montpellier will go hard at home to try and refind cohesion but send out the reserves to any remaining away games.

I read somewhere that it is still technically possible for Oyonnax to finish ahead of Montpellier. Montpellier would need to lose both remaining games, heavily, and Oyonnax would need two bonus point wins.
This is highly unlikely but would still think Montpellier would need to try to get points from the last two games, to build cohesion for the playoff game.
What is also fascinating is that between Racing in 6th and Pau in 11th, there are only 5 points.
Top 6 quality for the knock outs so it's all to play for over the last 2 rounds. As Racing are faltering Clermont are finishing like a train and are sitting just 1 point below Stuart Lancaster's men.

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/2024/05/29/top-14-toulouse-fin-de-saison-compromise-pour-emmanuel-meafou-pita-ahki-et-julien-marchand-absents-au-moins-trois-semaines-11981776.php

Meafou is injured, and might be gone for the rest of the season. Given Arnold is facing a ban, that leaves Toulouse a bit light on locks for the play-offs.

Well it looks like Provence aren't going up after all. It's likely to be Grenoble is they win the final.

Nope - I always thought it would be done on the league placements but does not look that way. So the Table basically determines a 4 team playoff. The winner of that playoff semi and final gets auto promotion and the runner up must then have to play the 13th ranked Top14 side for a chance of promotion.

Learn something new every day.

Got to be tough on Provence as they were top of the league as the most consistent performers which is what you think would be needed going into the top 14.

Looks like North will be playing a season in Pro D2 then along with Francis.....good luck with that...

mikey_dragon wrote:Well it looks like Provence aren't going up after all. It's likely to be Grenoble is they win the final.

Missed conversion costing Provence by the sounds of it. Sam Davies accuracy off the tee being crucial for Grenoble as Provence scored more tries.

This weekend's results settled the order of play for the quarter finals. Racing lost but got a bonus point, which was enough to see them in the play-offs ahead of Castres.

Toulon (4th) v La Rochelle (5th)

Bordeaux Begles (3rd) vs Racing (6th)

Toulouse (1st) and Stade (2nd) then take on the winners in semi-finals.

Rugby Fan wrote:This weekend's results settled the order of play for the quarter finals. Racing lost but got a bonus point, which was enough to see them in the play-offs ahead of Castres.

Toulon (4th) v La Rochelle (5th)

Bordeaux Begles (3rd) vs Racing (6th)

Toulouse (1st) and Stade (2nd) then take on the winners in semi-finals.

This is a much, much better format for league knockouts. I wish the URC would do the same.

Montpellier beat Genoble, so they will not be relegated.

It was close, though. The final score was 20-18, and Montpellier left it until the 77th minute to get the winning score.

La Rochelle beat Toulon 29-34, and Bordeaux beat Racing 31-17.

The first score looks close but La Rochelle were 15-34 ahead, and it was only a late penalty try, and a last try when the clock was already past full time, that made for a smaller gap. Still, two yellow cards meant La Rochelle were down to 13 players late in the game, so Toulon might have made an earlier comeback.

Toulouse now take on La Rochelle on Friday, with Stade playing Bordeaux in the other semi-final on Saturday.

That's Bordeaux without Jalibert who's done for the season as well. Humbling result for Racing. Lancaster needs Farrell to help them add a clinical edge if he wants to keep his job.

It was his first season though and he inherited a lot of that team. Will take him another season or two to shape this squad.

He has got a few good players coming in this summer as well.

All depends if he gets time to redevelop this side.

Welshmushroom wrote:It was his first season though and he inherited a lot of that team.  Will take him another season or two to shape this squad.

He has got a few good players coming in this summer as well.

All depends if he gets time to redevelop this side.  

I'd imagine he certainly gets until next summer. It was announced Sept 22 that he'd be in charge for the 23/24 season so he'd have had a say in recruitment as no doubt the agreement would have been done before the announcement. Crawling into the players via a losing bonus point on the last game of the season and then being well beaten by a Bordeaux side missing players to injury, not a good look for the first season in charge.

Of course a pre season interrupted by the world cup will have made things harder for him. Will need to show better next season though or the pressure will increase significantly next summer.

Going to watch the first semi-final. I am working in A&E for another four hours and for once, the place is quiet. Broadcast just came on so I have it on a number of screens scattered about. Good thing I should be able to get out before the Friday night craziness.

Good fun 1st half. Lots of great physicality and ball skill. These are two really good squads going at it. I think it's funny that the two Englishmen, Nowell and Willis, have already had yellows.

I say that and Atonio goes off with a red which will put La Rochelle under massive pressure.
And, just like that, the inevitable Toulouse try was just scored.

doctor_grey wrote:I say that and Atonio goes off with a red which will put La Rochelle under massive pressure.  
And, just like that, the inevitable Toulouse try was just scored.

ooops, it was just chalked off due to a forward pass in the build-up. So still Toulouse 15 and La Rochelle 20.

Toulouse now all over La Rochelle, 29-20.  Another high level game marred by a red.  Not that I disagree with the call too much, but still.  Atonio bent over a bit, probably as far as he can go, to and set up for the tackle which was well before the runner got to him.  The runner went just a bit lower, and bang, a shoulder the the chin.

The babies are getting tired. After a little afters following a ruck, Marchand and Wardi start shoving and dumbass Wardi headbutts Marchand. Wardi earns a red, the second of the day for La Rochelle, and Marchand a yellow. Not the quality game it was in the first half.

I do wonder about some of those that glance up into the chin. Much like Obano in the Prem final. That one was an inch to high. It's such a fine margin and currently the ref has no option but to go for red. I wonder if we'll see some wriggle room for that introduced.

formerly known as Sam wrote:I do wonder about some of those that glance up into the chin. Much like Obano in the Prem final. That one was an inch to high. It's such a fine margin and currently the ref has no option but to go for red. I wonder if we'll see some wriggle room for that introduced.

That's a great analogy, the Obano and Atonio reds were very similar. It's really hard for me to see how the wiggle room could be managed since we have enough trouble now. But I agree, there has to be something. The game can't keep doing this to ourselves.

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I do wonder about some of those that glance up into the chin. Much like Obano in the Prem final. That one was an inch to high. It's such a fine margin and currently the ref has no option but to go for red. I wonder if we'll see some wriggle room for that introduced.

That's a great analogy, the Obano and Atonio reds were very similar.  It's really hard for me to see how the wiggle room could be managed since we have enough trouble now.  But I agree, there has to be something.  The game can't keep doing this to ourselves.  

We were lucky the Prem final wasn't ruined and still a great watch.

Perhaps they'll look at getting the officials to look for any contact on the body before the head contact as a means to bringing it down. The Obano one for instance the bottom of his shoulder does hit the chest before the top clips the jaw. They've already added the dominant hit bit in as wriggle room I wouldn't be surprised if did a little more smudging of the lines. Would still be yellow.

For the record,

Stade 20-22 Bordeaux

Rugby Fan wrote:For the record,

Stade 20-22 Bordeaux

Based on the games this weekend, I think which ever team won on Friday, Toulouse or La Rochelle, they would win handily against Stade Francais or UBB.  So, to me, we have Toulouse by a big score in their never-ending club season.

Dupont is like a cheat code in our sport when he plays like that.

If the Super Rugby final seemed a bit one sided, then this was a massacre. Wales looked better against the Sprinboks last weekend, than Bordeaux did against Toulouse last night.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/toulouse-do-the-double-by-routing-bordeaux-in-top-14-final/

doctor_grey wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:For the record,

Stade 20-22 Bordeaux

Based on the games this weekend, I think which ever team won on Friday, Toulouse or La Rochelle, they would win handily against Stade Francais or UBB.  So, to me, we have Toulouse by a big score in their never-ending club season.

I am a genius.  Obviously.  Except that I didn't realise the match was yesterday so I will have to watch a replay today.  

Rugby Fan wrote:Dupont is like a cheat code in our sport when he plays like that.

That is one of the best ways I have seen to describe Dupont.  He is just that good.

Did anyone watch the game?  Watching the replay, I think the yellow for Tatafu was excessive.  He went into the tackle around the chest and then rode higher after contact as both players were moving.  It was one of those plays that look worse in real time and not as severe in slo-mo. To me it was a Rugby play or at the most a pen.  But I can see in the current environment it could be harsher.  I would be (somewhat) happy to be told why I might not be right, but keep it clean.....

Of course, in hindsight, that would have had no practical impact as to who won the match,  Toulouse was that good in all aspects of the game.

UBB gambled on Jalibert and another who were supposed to have season ending injuries to come back in and make a difference. It was a failed gamble.

formerly known as Sam wrote:UBB gambled on Jalibert and another who were supposed to have season ending injuries to come back in and make a difference. It was a failed gamble.

Agree.  Jalibert looked pretty ineffective.  But I have a feeling UBB don't have great depth, especially at key positions.  Also not a Lucu fan.  Not sure what the medical procedures were, but could not have been too severe or they would never have been allowed to play.  I remember in the first half, when one of the Toulouse players was in the act of scoring the commentator mentioned one of the players had just had what was supposed to be season ending surgery.  I laughed a bit since in the last game of the season, any surgery the week or so before is usually season ending surgery....