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2024 T20 World Cup

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JDizzle
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Post by Duty281 Wed 22 May 2024, 12:04 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just over a week away now from some glorious six-hitting in the cricketing heartlands of Barbados, Trinidad, Saint Lucia and, um, New York City.

England are defending the crown they won at the MCG in front of 80,000 people in November 2022. They'll probably be hoping it goes a bit better than their defence of the 50 over title! The tournament is, as T20 competitions are, very wide open. If England were to win it again they'd be the first men's team to win back to back World T20 titles in the history of the competition.

Chasing them keenly are the bookmakers favourites India, who are very, very thirsty because of a drought that has existed since 2013 in ICC tournaments. Australia will obviously be there or thereabouts, and there's plenty of excitement around the West Indies, twice winners of this competition, and how glorious it would be to see them lift a trophy at home.

Or perhaps South Africa will finally stop being Tottenham and actually win something? But it's T20. So it could be anyone. Ireland, Scotland, Uganda....USA?

I thought the format of the last couple of T20 World Cups was absolutely perfect. Naturally, then, the ICC have altered it for this year! So we've now got 20 teams, up from 16, and 55 matches in total, up from 45.

There's no preliminary round this time. All teams start off the same. Four groups of five teams. All play each other once. Top two in each group go through to the Super 8s. Super 8s is split into two groups of four. No points are carried over and all teams play each other once in the Super 8s. Top two in each Super 8 group go through to the semi-finals, from which it's a straight knockout. Means a team will play nine games if they are to lift the trophy, in comparison to England's seven games to win it in 2022.

One curious thing about the format, and the ICC love curious things (such as there being no reserve day for one semi-final), is that the finishing places in the initial group are seeded. For example, England are designated B1 in their group, and Australia are B2, which means that it's irrelevant if England come first or second. They will go through to Group 2 of the Super 8s regardless of finishing first or second. I suppose it guarantees certainty for fans, as they know where teams are playing after the initial group stage.

While I don't think it's been directly said, the draw was not a fair and open one. It took place behind closed doors and ensured India/Pakistan were in the same group, as well as some other long-standing rivalries, such as USA v Canada. I'm surprised the ICC didn't put India and Pakistan in the same Super 8 group as well! The groups are:

Groups:

The fixture list is all over the place with timings, so try and keep up! If you're in the UK, games can start at 01:30, or they might begin at 18:00, and quite a few matches seem to overlap in the early stages.

Fixture List (All times BST):

Squads (Not yet finalised):

Outright Odds (Bet365):

The USA and Canada will be starting this one off in Texas. That's the most unlikely cricket sentence ever uttered.

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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:20 pm

India needed that. Still too close to call.

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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:23 pm

South Africa nudging ahead, but two overs left for Bumrah.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:24 pm

kuldeep's been too full or too short.....SA driving their chase well....on RRR of the start
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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:26 pm

Full Beast mode on Klalssen takes the game away
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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:27 pm

Wow! What an over. 24!

Klassen has surely played the winning hand.

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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:27 pm

Oh dear Axar got murdered then...think Klaasen has almost settled this for SA. Bumrah needs a hat trick...

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Post by GSC Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:30 pm

SA are going to have to SA the Poopie out of this...
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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:31 pm

Should have brought Bumrah an over earlier
BUT
can't complain, no one expected Klassen to go after Axar like that
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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:32 pm

Very different pitch from the semi. Indian spinners not able to produce the same menace so it looks as if 176 might have been fractionally light .Bumrah only one over left SA aren't choking today surely ?

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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:33 pm

26 from 24, six wickets left.

We're all thinking how will SA mess this up? Laugh

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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:34 pm

But who knows ? Klaasen gone...

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:35 pm

klassen falls...but only a horrible choke can lose this for SA
normally they should win with an over to spare


Last edited by KP_fan on Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:35 pm

Well that's Klassen.

With victory so close, does one of Jansen/Miller swing for the fences and try to kill it off early?

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:39 pm

Bumrah, Pandya and Deep shud be the next 3 overs
i hope
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Post by GSC Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:40 pm

One more tight over and SA will feel the squeeze. Think you gotta bowl out bumrah now
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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:42 pm

Bumrah !!!!

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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:43 pm

Bumrah delivers once more!

Feeling a bit like the reverse of Eng/SA. England had that one won with a big over, then lost wickets and the RRR got too big. Might happen to SA. Suddenly they need around 10 an over, not many wickets left.

Can Miller get them over the line?

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:45 pm

2 run and 1 wkt off 18th..."The Bumraah" is not  a man
a Superman
20 off 12


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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:46 pm

Don't think they should have taken that single at the end.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:46 pm

pandya shud have bowled 19th
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Post by GSC Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:48 pm

Think they have SA'd this. Miller stuck watching
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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:51 pm

16 from 6. Wow. SA have scored 10 from the last 18 balls.

Miller or bust. Miller v Hardik for the trophy.

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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:52 pm

How this has swung around ! Last over.. has Miller got some magic ?

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:52 pm

Deep gets away with a good over
Game has slipped in Ind's favor again...16 off the final over
Pandya will surely bowl.....India need to giive a single to Miller first ball
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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:54 pm

catches win matches....has SKY pulled that one off
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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:54 pm

The greatest catch has surely won it.

South Africa have done a South Africa. A very strong position has slipped away.

Checking...it's fine!

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Post by VTR Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

This is an epic choke. Of course they are facing some good bowling, but you have to win from the position they were in

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Post by GSC Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

30 from 30 with two set to this.

SA might be cursed
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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

stunner...give the match situation and the consequence of not pulling that off
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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 6:56 pm

Great catch and SA once again have surely fallen at the last fence ... game of inches.

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Post by alfie Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:02 pm

Congratulations India ! Great match for us neutrals and a well deserved trophy. So near and yet so far for SA ..

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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:02 pm

That's it. India win their second T20 World Cup and end 11 years since their last major ICC trophy. The best team overall, so richly deserved. But SA will be pondering for a long time how they lost from 26 off 24 with six wickets left.

A superb catch, a special Kohli knock aided by Axar, and incredible spells from Arshdeep, Pandya and, of course, Bumrah. All getting India there today. clap

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:03 pm

Win the toss
Bat first, runs on board, let the chaser contend with pressure
Bumrah the Superman
Catches win matches
SKY took mother of all catches
SA choked the mother of all chokes
India got out of JAIL
Rohit, Dravid Kohi win a world cup in their last effort
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Post by Galted Sat 29 Jun 2024, 7:31 pm

Congrats to SA and commiserations to India.  India have managed some reasonable chokes in recent years but have to respect SA's ability to pull an elite-level choke out of absolutely nowhere when the chips aren't down.  They're in some pretty good company now, I'd probably put them 4th after Sophocles, Attila the Huna and Jimi Hendrix.

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Post by VTR Sat 29 Jun 2024, 8:14 pm

It was so bad that even Jimmy White could be heard shouting "bottlers" at the TV

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Post by Duty281 Sat 29 Jun 2024, 8:39 pm

I heard Tim Henman and Colin Montgomerie were also furious.

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Post by KP_fan Sat 29 Jun 2024, 8:55 pm

After a see-saw of emotions, despair, celebrations congratulations from friends, relatives, non-related, it still seems surreal.
30 off 30 and  6 in hand and 100s of millions sighed and gave it up......"so near yet again"

And then that unbelievable dream sequence of 4 overs Bumrah-Pandya-Bumrah-Arshdeep and  SA had  worked themselves to 16 off last over. 2024 T20 World Cup - Page 20 1f631

It went so fast & with mind still in despair that it literally took pinching oneself to believe that SA have slipped to a point where it would require a miracle to pull off 16.
Miller tried but his miracle was cut off by that super  miraculous catch...and then SA sank in disbelief, shock horror.
Feel sad for them.

Very happy for Kohli, Dravid and Rohit to have a world-cup...after many efforts as captain & coach.
Kohli & Rohit are unlikely to be there in 2027, Dravid couldn't have imagined a better last game as coach.

The enormit will take time to sink and these moments will be played over and over again.
The tournament itself saw more close games than I can remember in a world cup for a long time...and great finish as an Indian fan Yahoo  thumbsup
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Post by alfie Sun 30 Jun 2024, 5:36 am

You can bask in the warm glow of this one , KP_fan Smile

Really was a dominant display throughout the event from India , and they were indeed the most deserving of winners. Even more laudable , really that they had to pull it out of the fire at the death. TBH I thought they were gone after 16 overs ; but Bumrah produced some magic - and Arshdeep , who sometimes looked a bit of a risky option , performed admirably at the crucial time. Not sure Hardik could have defended , say , ten in the last...but hey he got the wickets ... Credit to Rohit for staying calm in a tense finish and trusting his main weapon at the right times thumbsup

And good to see Kohli sign off his white ball career in such style after a very thin WC.

Enjoy !

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Post by Old Man Sun 30 Jun 2024, 6:36 am

Must be such a comforting feeling to play the Proteas in a knock out match, chances of the inevitable choke is real. Almost as certain as the fact that the man on the moon is a myth.

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Post by guildfordbat Sun 30 Jun 2024, 5:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:Player Ratings for England

Buttler 7.5/10. Not the dominating figure we like to see, but not the disaster he was in the previous fifty over World Cup. Biggest score was against the Americans, got starts in most other innings but failed to kick on. Extra half a point for good keeping.

Salt 8/10. Played a leading role in England's only win over a top nation, and set up the chase v Australia, but did little outside of those games. Strike rate of 159 was England's best.

Bairstow 4/10. Out cheaply in three games, the only saving grace being his 48* v the West Indies. Nowhere near his aggressive, destructive best. Time for retirement.

Moeen 2/10. One day, we'll know how Moeen has such a strange hold over the England hierarchy. His abilities are vastly inflated by the top brass in all formats. This tournament Moeen frequently batted above Brook, and his scores took on a symmetry as they got lower and lower with each passing innings, going from OK to bad. Also bowled a few overs sparingly.

Brook 8/10. Difficult to rate. He has been managed by a bunch of clowns. He came out at 6 v Australia and 5 v South Africa. He would have probably led England to victory over SA, thus avoiding the India SF, if he came out at 4. Couldn't do anything about the India defeat, again coming out at 5, which was too low.

Jacks 1/10. Probably remembered for a 22 run over...that he bowled, rather than batted, alas. That sealed his fate as England panicked and adjusted the balance.

Livingstone 6/10. Bowled a few tidy overs, but was wrongly chosen to bowl v the West Indies, which cost 20. Had one good innings v SA, but little other chances to exhibit his batting prowess. Might be on borrowed time because he's up to 48 T20is now and we still haven't seen the best of him, or really understand what his role is.

Curran 1.5/10. Came back for the balance, didn't replicate 2022. Tournament bowling figures of 12-0-115-3 says it all I think. Not much chance with the bat either.

Jordan 2.5/10. Might seem harsh, but his figures are massaged heavily by the USA game, and full credit for the hattrick. But went for over 12 an over v India, and 11 an over v Australia, in the games that were true tests. Picked up a lot of cheap wickets against batsmen on the slog. Most expensive bowler for England.

Rashid 8.5/10. Ah, was this the end? Another fine tournament for his Rashidness, who I think is England's greatest ever limited overs bowler. Only blemish in this tournament was the 1/41 v Australia. Otherwise he was typical Rashid, with 1/25 v India, 1/20 v South Africa, and 1/21 v West Indies. Tournament economy under 7 and England's joint leading wicket taker.

Archer 8/10. Didn't strike in the PowerPlay as often as England would have wanted, but he was a consistent wicket taker and England's second most miserly quick. Great to see him back.

Topley 7/10. Tough to rate. On the one hand, very cheap, on the other, just two wickets in 18 overs. The best teams need strikes in those PowerPlay overs and Topley didn't deliver on this front. But he didn't give much away, either.

Wood 1.5/10. Went wicketless and at about 11/12 an over in the three games v test opponents. Minor redemption to his figures with 3/12 v Oman (worth half a point that). Has had a really tough run for the last nine months in all formats.

Duckett N/A. Didn't play. Was worth a shot considering his left handedness and Bairstow not doing much.

Hartley N/A. Didn't play. But didn't expect him to. A baffling selection. Still don't understand it.

Mott 0/10. Time to go. English limited overs cricket needs a rebuild towards the next major ICC trophy (which is early next year, there's one every year!) and Mott isn't the man to do it. Made numerous strange calls for this tournament. Why is Moeen a 3/4? Why was Bairstow not dropped? Why was Brook so low? Why was Hartley picked? Why was the balance bowling heavy when extra batting was required? Why did Duckett not play? This failure follows straight on from the last one. And, yes, it is a failure. I know some might look at it and say, 'semi-finals, that's not bad'. But England's record v the top nations was 1-3, with two big defeats. The only notable victory was over the West Indies.

Hi Duty - belated thanks (been away a couple of days) for your scores on the doors with a couple of quick comments.

Very much with your ratings. Just the odd confirmation or quibble.

You're completely right to lambast Mott and highlight that, regardless of reaching the semi-finals, we lost 3-1 to the four top nations we played. In particular, I wasn't surprised or upset by our loss to India but was appalled at the manner of the defeat. Some very poor cricket and decisions in that game.

Following on from the above, I feel that Buttler - or, at least, his captaincy - belongs in the mix with Mott and thus his (Buttler's) rating from you is too high. Even if you put all the poor tactical decisions down to Mott, I would still downgrade Buttler for not challenging him more effectively.

The other player I thought a bit too high was Archer. Great to see him back as you said but I did wonder if your delight in that over inflated his rating. It may be unfair to compare him to a Superman but if we say Bumrah is a 10 (and surely everyone would), can we truly say Archer is only 2 digits below? A 6.5 or a top ceiling of 7 would be more like it for me. Add to that, his fielding did him and us few favours across the tournament whilst his part in Livi's run out against India was the final nail in the coffin.




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Post by dummy_half Tue 02 Jul 2024, 4:36 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Player Ratings for England

Buttler 7.5/10. Not the dominating figure we like to see, but not the disaster he was in the previous fifty over World Cup. Biggest score was against the Americans, got starts in most other innings but failed to kick on. Extra half a point for good keeping.

Salt 8/10. Played a leading role in England's only win over a top nation, and set up the chase v Australia, but did little outside of those games. Strike rate of 159 was England's best.

Bairstow 4/10. Out cheaply in three games, the only saving grace being his 48* v the West Indies. Nowhere near his aggressive, destructive best. Time for retirement.

Moeen 2/10. One day, we'll know how Moeen has such a strange hold over the England hierarchy. His abilities are vastly inflated by the top brass in all formats. This tournament Moeen frequently batted above Brook, and his scores took on a symmetry as they got lower and lower with each passing innings, going from OK to bad. Also bowled a few overs sparingly.

Brook 8/10. Difficult to rate. He has been managed by a bunch of clowns. He came out at 6 v Australia and 5 v South Africa. He would have probably led England to victory over SA, thus avoiding the India SF, if he came out at 4. Couldn't do anything about the India defeat, again coming out at 5, which was too low.

Jacks 1/10. Probably remembered for a 22 run over...that he bowled, rather than batted, alas. That sealed his fate as England panicked and adjusted the balance.

Livingstone 6/10. Bowled a few tidy overs, but was wrongly chosen to bowl v the West Indies, which cost 20. Had one good innings v SA, but little other chances to exhibit his batting prowess. Might be on borrowed time because he's up to 48 T20is now and we still haven't seen the best of him, or really understand what his role is.

Curran 1.5/10. Came back for the balance, didn't replicate 2022. Tournament bowling figures of 12-0-115-3 says it all I think. Not much chance with the bat either.

Jordan 2.5/10. Might seem harsh, but his figures are massaged heavily by the USA game, and full credit for the hattrick. But went for over 12 an over v India, and 11 an over v Australia, in the games that were true tests. Picked up a lot of cheap wickets against batsmen on the slog. Most expensive bowler for England.

Rashid 8.5/10. Ah, was this the end? Another fine tournament for his Rashidness, who I think is England's greatest ever limited overs bowler. Only blemish in this tournament was the 1/41 v Australia. Otherwise he was typical Rashid, with 1/25 v India, 1/20 v South Africa, and 1/21 v West Indies. Tournament economy under 7 and England's joint leading wicket taker.

Archer 8/10. Didn't strike in the PowerPlay as often as England would have wanted, but he was a consistent wicket taker and England's second most miserly quick. Great to see him back.

Topley 7/10. Tough to rate. On the one hand, very cheap, on the other, just two wickets in 18 overs. The best teams need strikes in those PowerPlay overs and Topley didn't deliver on this front. But he didn't give much away, either.

Wood 1.5/10. Went wicketless and at about 11/12 an over in the three games v test opponents. Minor redemption to his figures with 3/12 v Oman (worth half a point that). Has had a really tough run for the last nine months in all formats.

Duckett N/A. Didn't play. Was worth a shot considering his left handedness and Bairstow not doing much.

Hartley N/A. Didn't play. But didn't expect him to. A baffling selection. Still don't understand it.

Mott 0/10. Time to go. English limited overs cricket needs a rebuild towards the next major ICC trophy (which is early next year, there's one every year!) and Mott isn't the man to do it. Made numerous strange calls for this tournament. Why is Moeen a 3/4? Why was Bairstow not dropped? Why was Brook so low? Why was Hartley picked? Why was the balance bowling heavy when extra batting was required? Why did Duckett not play? This failure follows straight on from the last one. And, yes, it is a failure. I know some might look at it and say, 'semi-finals, that's not bad'. But England's record v the top nations was 1-3, with two big defeats. The only notable victory was over the West Indies.

Hi Duty - belated thanks (been away a couple of days) for your scores on the doors with a couple of quick comments.

Very much with your ratings. Just the odd confirmation or quibble.

You're completely right to lambast Mott and highlight that, regardless of reaching the semi-finals, we lost 3-1 to the four top nations we played. In particular, I wasn't surprised or upset by our loss to India but was appalled at the manner of the defeat. Some very poor cricket and decisions in that game.

Following on from the above, I feel that Buttler - or, at least, his captaincy - belongs in the mix with Mott and thus his (Buttler's) rating from you is too high. Even if you put all the poor tactical decisions down to Mott, I would still downgrade Buttler for not challenging him more effectively.

The other player I thought a bit too high was Archer. Great to see him back as you said but I did wonder if your delight in that over inflated his rating. It may be unfair to compare him to a Superman but if we say Bumrah is a 10 (and surely everyone would), can we truly say Archer is only 2 digits below? A 6.5 or a top ceiling of 7 would be more like it for me. Add to that, his fielding did him and us few favours across the tournament whilst his part in Livi's run out against India was the final nail in the coffin.




The thing is that Bumrah doesn't rate a 10 on the normal scale as applied to humans, he's somewhere around a 12. Going around a run a ball and picking up a handful of wickets is a 10 in T20. 15 wickets at 8.5 and an economy rate only a little over 4, and 2-18 off 4 in the final including a match-defining over late on...I don't think even Akram at his best was as good a limited overs bowler.

Oh, and I've just seen a YouTube of the SKY catch of Miller(?) -Should have been a 6, not out as he just brushes the boundary sponge, but it's not clear SA would have got the runs anyway. The crazy thing is that they were down to needing less than a run a ball and 6 wickets left - just needed to nudge and nurdle 1s and 2s to claim the trophy. Lack of big game awareness...

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