UEFA Euro 2024

It's coming up. Who are you supporting? Who do you think will win? Who gets the golden boot?

How you feeling for your teams chances? I'm not massively into international footy but a tournament is always a laugh.

I have France winning the lot. Maybeee Kane for golden boot. Yeah that'll do. I'll be supporting The Netherlands I reckon.

I am informed it is coming home.

I believe it is coming home.

Harry Kane golden boot, England lift the trophy, the nation rejoices

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I am informed it is coming home.

I believe it is coming home.

Harry Kane golden boot, England lift the trophy, the nation rejoices

And then your alarm clock rings and you find we actually went out in the QF or SF against a good but beatable opponent.

Haven't followed football this season, gradually fallen out of love with the game, only seen a few games all year, but I might dip back in for the Euros.

Southgate has to deliver this time or his reign will be an overall failure, and England will have to come to terms with wasting three tournaments (2018 was a free hit so is discounted) on an, at best, average manager blessed with an amazing group of players.

Duty281 wrote:Haven't followed football this season, gradually fallen out of love with the game, only seen a few games all year, but I might dip back in for the Euros.

Southgate has to deliver this time or his reign will be an overall failure, and England will have to come to terms with wasting three tournaments (2018 was a free hit so is discounted) on an, at best, average manager blessed with an amazing group of players.

I think that's over-stating the case rather other than this tournament, and even now most of us accept that Pickford is a no more than adequate keeper while the central defensive and holding midfield positions have been a relative weakness for a long time. The emergence of Bellingham and Foden, with the likes of Saka, Gordon etc playing behind Kane has made this a strong group of attackers, but you have to remember that Allardyce and then Southgate got the England job because it looked like there would be a down cycle after the 'golden generation' retired.

Southgate as an international manager has proven to be a bit the opposite of Capello for example - he's been an excellent man manager and really improved team togetherness, but his tactical abilities seem to fall short (otherwise we should have beaten Italy in the last Euros - started really well, but got far too defensive far too soon after Shaw's goal and let Italy get a foot hold in the game rather than getting a second or third as they could have from the dominance of the first 30 minutes..

dummy_half wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Haven't followed football this season, gradually fallen out of love with the game, only seen a few games all year, but I might dip back in for the Euros.

Southgate has to deliver this time or his reign will be an overall failure, and England will have to come to terms with wasting three tournaments (2018 was a free hit so is discounted) on an, at best, average manager blessed with an amazing group of players.

I think that's over-stating the case rather other than this tournament, and even now most of us accept that Pickford is a no more than adequate keeper while the central defensive and holding midfield positions have been a relative weakness for a long time. The emergence of Bellingham and Foden, with the likes of Saka, Gordon etc playing behind Kane has made this a strong group of attackers, but you have to remember that Allardyce and then Southgate got the England job because it looked like there would be a down cycle after the 'golden generation' retired.

Southgate as an international manager has proven to be a bit the opposite of Capello for example - he's been an excellent man manager and really improved team togetherness, but his tactical abilities seem to fall short (otherwise we should have beaten Italy in the last Euros - started really well, but got far too defensive far too soon after Shaw's goal and let Italy get a foot hold in the game rather than getting a second or third as they could have from the dominance of the first 30 minutes..

I think all teams have weaknesses, though. England had the capability to win the last two tournaments. Now, they were a bit unfortunate in 2022, with the usual crap refereeing/Kane inexplicably missing a penalty, but Southgate's continued insistence in picking Maguire was a factor in the defeat.

The Euros was definitely the one England should have won though. Gifted with the easiest draw an England manager has ever had, Southgate bottled it in the final, when he got rid of the back four that had been working and changed it to a back five. He sacrificed Saka, one of England's most in form players, in order to create this back five, and he moved Walker to the centre (losing a key counter attacking threat). That was such a good opportunity missed.

I'd also add Capello was bad tactically, at least for England. Rigid 4-4-2 and moving one of England's best match winners (Gerrard) to the left, as well as not having the bottle to drop a clearly unfit and out of form Rooney after the Algeria game.

But Capello was hired by the FA because he'd been hugely successful at club level, where he had used a rigid 4-4-2 with AC Milan. OK, you can get away with it when you have two of the world's greatest ever defenders in your side.
However, what was shown was that his style of management really didn't work at the international level - indeed, I think a lot of people don't get how much different the jobs are between club and international management.

Southgate was a very mediocre club manager but has done better than most expected for England, both at age group and full team level. Are there valid criticisms? yes of course there are, particularly that his teams can sometimes be frustratingly negative (while at other times they will score an absolute bucket load of goals against half decent opposition). However, some of the criticism on social media (not here - we're all reasonably sensible and rational, honest) seems to be rooted in the fact that he wasn't a big name manager with a history of success at club level - his record as England manager is objectively better than Robson or Venables, both of whom are more esteemed by the fans, and I don't hold with the argument that he has a better group of players - I certainly think the current squad falls short of the level of the early 2000s squad which achieved much less than it should have done (accepting there were some pretty good opponents).

dummy_half wrote:But Capello was hired by the FA because he'd been hugely successful at club level, where he had used a rigid 4-4-2 with AC Milan. OK, you can get away with it when you have two of the world's greatest ever defenders in your side.
However, what was shown was that his style of management really didn't work at the international level - indeed, I think a lot of people don't get how much different the jobs are between club and international management.

Southgate was a very mediocre club manager but has done better than most expected for England, both at age group and full team level. Are there valid criticisms? yes of course there are, particularly that his teams can sometimes be frustratingly negative (while at other times they will score an absolute bucket load of goals against half decent opposition). However, some of the criticism on social media (not here - we're all reasonably sensible and rational, honest) seems to be rooted in the fact that he wasn't a big name manager with a history of success at club level - his record as England manager is objectively better than Robson or Venables, both of whom are more esteemed by the fans, and I don't hold with the argument that he has a better group of players - I certainly think the current squad falls short of the level of the early 2000s squad which achieved much less than it should have done (accepting there were some pretty good opponents).

I'm not sure you can judge him versus Venables. Venables only got one tournament and lost to the eventual winners on penalties (same as Southgate in Euro 2020). Although, England's performance v Germany in 1996 was vastly better than England's performance v Italy in 2021. Whereas England were highly unfortunate to lose to Germany in 1996, with Gazza a toe away and Anderton hitting the post, England were very fortunate to reach penalties in 2021 (one shot on target in 120 minutes and 39% possession)).

How would Venables have done if he got better backing and took England through as far as the 2002 World Cup? We'll never know.

Robson was also highly unfortunate. He lost to the eventual winners of the World Cup in both 1986 and 1990, both by very thin and very unfair margins. Maradona had to punch the ball into the net to beat England, and Platt had a clear goal disallowed that would have likely taken England to victory in 1990. That's two World Cups where Robson has done better than Southgate, with a weaker set of resources.

The Euros are where Robson's legacy is let down. England didn't qualify for Euro 1984, although it must be remembered that qualification was a lot tougher in those days and England only just missed out on being in the final eight due to a last minute Danish equaliser (the same Danes who missed out on a final because of penalties). Euro 88 was obviously terrible, though England did finish in the top eight.

I think the current England squad is only surpassed in my lifetime (going back to 1995) by the 1998 squad. The 2002 squad suffered from injury, Sven messed up the 2006 selection, and though the 2004 squad had a strong 11 players, it had no depth, which was exposed later in the tournament (though England should have definitely beaten Portugal in the quarters).

It's Euro's Day.

Germany vs Scotland

Score predictions?

I see it being like 3-1 Germany.

5-1, Scotland's cause not helped by a red when they were already two down.

Bit of cold water thrown over Scotland, but this isn't the game that will decide their fate, so hopefully they're not too effected by it.

I thought Germany were very good - made it so hard for Scotland to get the ball out of their own half, and then had such incision when they attacked. Everything happened at great pace. How far they go will depend on whether better opposition is able to get at their back line, which looks much less strong than their attack.
Scotland on the other hand never came to terms with what they were up against.

I see Angus Gunn continues the long line of dodgy Scottish keepers.

Hungary 2 - 1 Switzerland
Spain 3 - 1 Croatia
Italy 2 - 0 Albania

And I base that, on absolutely nothing lol

Was hoping this would be the first good game. Guess not

Dutch have too many players who want to play the final pass and no one to be on the end of it. Gakpos directness is refreshing.

Poland have done ok, look decent when they go forward. Got pretty stuck in their own half after scoring and eventually the mistake came

Holland finally put a striker on and he scores within 5 minutes

Gotta consider Weghorst and Malen for Depay and Simons going forward.

Denmark started well but they were fairly mediocre after taking an early lead. Slovenia probably could've come away with more than a point with the opportunities they wasted

Serbia are poor.

Not exactly 100 mph football. Should really kill these off, Saka, Jude, Guehi playing well, Kane and Foden barely involved, Trent looks not entirely comfortable

Ah the groups isn't the place to play your best football. Just get the points and get through them.

Wasn't great but it's a win. Would help if Foden or Kane could complete a pass.

Trent in midfield just doesn't work honestly. Rice having to do the work of 3 men at times

Well that was bad.

Controlled the first 20 or so minutes, as Serbia sat in, although the tempo was pretty lacklustre. Many players taking half a dozen touches to move the ball. The goal was a good bit of poaching from Bellingham after a neat run in behind from Saka.

And then...nothing. Just allowed Serbia to dictate. Sunk deeper and deeper and laboured to a win. Good thing Serbia don't have some creators or finishers, otherwise it wouldn't be three points. A miserable performance against a mediocre team.

Stones didn't look assured in defence, which is concerning. Trent was a liability in the midfield role, and England surely can't take on better opposition with him starting there. Foden was pretty wasted on the left, mainly because Trippier doesn't provide much support in the way of overlaps or crossing threat, so the opposition aren't concerned with him. I do think Foden would be much better in the centre.

Same thing with the referees. England too polite. Serbia were rough and took down Bellingham any chance they got. That happens to any other team and they get in the referee's ear. England just let it go by.

Positives were obviously Bellingham, England's best player, and I really liked Guehi in defence. A clear upgrade on Maguire's ineptitude. Saka is also so good when he gets his head up and runs at defenders. Options off the bench look strong. Bowen made a decent impact.

But big improvement necessary. England are pretty much through in the group stage already, but this won't cut it in a potential QF against Spain/Italy. I do think England will be a strong counter attacking team, though it shouldn't be relied upon.

Agree on the ref Duty - thought he was poor and we also should have been in his ear much more often, Serbia got away with a ridiculous amount of fouls.

Defensively a solid showing I thought, they didn't really create anything of note and was good to see Guehi show well in his first major tournament game. Stones looks to be working back to full fitness to me. Trippier did his role fine, but we do miss Shaw going forward.

First half hour we looked good going forward, second half was a concern. I think Trent should be left as a bench option to come on at RB/RWB if we are chasing a game, he isn't a natural midfielder and you don't get the best from him there. If we want a ball player, it has to be Wharton in there for me.

Obviously want to play better than that. But it was the first game and the important thing was to bag the three points , which they've done.

Although I'd like to have seen them on the attack much more after that first half hour or so , I was quietly pleased with the way the (much questioned , reasonably enough) defence handled the pressure they had to take once Serbia started dominating possession. Bit of a concern that they did appear to be rather spooked by the physicality of their opponents - who did have a bit of a size advantage ! But a clean sheet , and frankly I never felt too worried about the prospect of an equalizer.

Agree Guehi was really good. I am not as down on Maguire as a lot of people (think he's generally served England well , within his limitations , and cops far too much scapegoating) ; but am very happy with his replacement on this showing. Also liked Bowen when he came on.

The Foden problem - as he did seem pretty ineffective on the left - is all mixed up with maximising use of Bellingham , isn't it ? Hopefully they can deploy both to better advantage as they proceed (don't want a repeat of past fiddling about Gerrard/Lampard etc). Will leave the perfect positioning choice to those who have watched a lot more of all these fellows lately ; but tend to agree TAA might be one who needs to make way before they can settle it .

As a first game , I'll take it.

I think with Foden it's a classic thing of Southgate wanting him in the team, but not having the room to slot him in. Very Sven 2004. If he wants Bellingham as the 10, that's great, but Foden should be dropped as he's either the 10 or nothing. Palmer can be the wide left option. Southgate has never managed to get the best out of Foden in any case.

Denmark will be a step up. They've got some very strong players and will likely be targeting a win after failing to beat Slovenia.

Get to have a look at France today, who I think have to be the favourites for the competition.

First thing England have to do is stop the midfielders dropping so deep without the ball - back 4 across the edge of the box and midfield 5 5 m in front, and just backing off as Serbia carried the ball forward. If we are playng 4-2-3-1, the more attacking midfielders need to do more 20 m further up the pitch in defensive situations rather than all sitting off.

Give Kane a bit of a pass for his performance - battled against some very aggressive defending, and later on was doing a pretty good job of holding the ball up just had no options coming off him.
Foden looked totally lost - not sure if it's position and the lack of an overlapping full back, but for a guy who is amongst the best passers in the EPL, his inability to connect with even relatively easy passes last night was shocking.
TAA - I will go out on a limb here and suggest he should be playing instead of Walker, in spite of his weaker defensive attributes. His passing and willingness to take a player on on the outside are things England miss. Walker for me made one good pass (which admittedly led to the goal) but otherwise is a very negative player when he gets into the final third.

Thought Gallagher added a bit of bite that was needed when he came on, while Bowen showed good workrate and created the good chance for Kane. Mainoo as a sub for Bellingham was a bit of a nothing - close the game out safely.

The biggest issue though is in the players attitude - so much safety first that we end up inviting pressure. Get the ball forward quicker to the likes of Bellingham and Saka and we can stretch defences, not play across the front of them all the time.

Shaw back helps I think, Foden needs an overlapping FB to provide width. As a right footer Trippier was trying to cut into the areas Foden wants to play in. How many games Shaw can play and how often is a question mark though.

Wonder if a return to 3 CBs is a better plan, Walker reverts to the right sided CB. Gordon or Bowen could perhaps play an attacking wingback on that side.

I'd rather see Wharton for Trent all the same. Need an out ball in midfield and to move the ball faster

Strong, and somewhat surprising, 3-0 win for Romania over Ukraine. Romania looked a properly organised outfit, held together by Dragusin at the back. Perhaps a team to look out for to cause an upset in the KO stages.

Yeah that shocked me a bit. Can Slovakia shock Belgium now? Looks a matter of time before Belgium score though lol

Trying to think if I've ever seen Lukaku or de Bruyne play well for Belgium lol

Haven't seen Lukaku spurn chances like this for Belgium since, erm, the last World Cup.

And Belgium get into a right mess whenever they're tasked with some defensive work.

Slovakia are the most entertaining team at this world cup, looks like they could score at either end when they have the ball

Finally created a chance Lukaku couldn't miss

And he's offside lol

No idea how Belgium haven't scored

Lukaku is lethal from a yard in fairness.

He's done it!

No he hasn't! They're taking this one off as well!

That one can't stand again surely

First shock as Belgium somehow fail to score

Fortunately this format makes it pretty unlikely they're actually going to be eliminated even losing this

Yeah, there's definitely not much jeopardy with this format. The old 16 teams, four groups of four, top two advance, was loads better.

But a rough defeat for Belgium and the group is upside down. VAR nonsense for that second disallowed goal. Pre-VAR there would be zero complaints about that goal being given, now it's overly officiated tedium.

Dont really get the outcry, he controls the ball with his hand. It's tough sure but he gains an advantage for doing it

Austria doing ok. Probably not going to finish with 11 on the pitch but should've just scored...

And then they self destruct

GSC wrote:Dont really get the outcry, he controls the ball with his hand. It's tough sure but he gains an advantage for doing it

Clear and obvious handball, there's not a goal scoring opportunity without it. I'm not sure how much of a natural position that is for his arm either.

Bit of a struggle bus for France last night, looked dangerous on the counter when they could stretch Austria with pace but the press was effective. Looks a pretty open group behind France, the Dutch weren't overly impressive against Poland either.

Mbappe's also got a Dupont-style injury, so not good for France.

Could really do without the fake ref whistles from the Turkish crowd

Two great goals from Turkey.

Czechs look like the most limited non Scotland team here.