Death in Wrestling

Not the happiest topic for a Friday, but one that's inexorably linked with wrestling, sadly.

1. What death in wrestling shocked you the most?

2. What death in wrestling saddened you the most?

3. Buy or sell: Owen Hart would have been a multiple time World Champion had he not died.

4. In an industry where guys dying is not shocking, how surprised are you to see Scott Hall still alive? Jake Roberts?

5. How can the wrestling industry improve so that guys don't drop dead at such young ages?

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1) Benoit
2) Guerrero
3) Before my time, but from the little I have seen - buy
4) Amazed those two are still around, though I can't see Hall being for much much longer
5) Fewer tour dates - would mean that superstars would have the chance to rest and recuperate instead of taking pills... an off season - if WWE is seen as a pseudo sport then like sports it needs to have a down period (or the guys take flexible breaks so that the product continues through the year)

1. What death in wrestling shocked you the most?

Chris Benoit

2. What death in wrestling saddened you the most?

Eddie Guerrero, he was always a favourite of mine.

3. Buy or sell: Owen Hart would have been a multiple time World Champion had he not died.

Never really got to see much of his work to him dying before I began to watch wrestling but from the stuff I have seen from YouTube and various WWF/E DVD's I'd have to go for buy. He was just incredibly unlucky to have been related to arguably one of the greatest wrestlers of all time.

4. In an industry where guys dying is not shocking, how surprised are you to see Scott Hall still alive? Jake Roberts?

Seriously surprised these two guys are still standing, not too sure on the background of Robert's but from what I have heard he was a fan of the drugs back in the day. As for Hall I will be seriously surprised if he is about next year, the guy is a mess which is such a shame as he was a great in the 90's.

5. How can the wrestling industry improve so that guys don't drop dead at such young ages?

Less touring and house shows, these guys are putting there bodies through matches almost 365 days a year. The likes of John Cena and Randy Orton won't have as long of careers as some of the older generations did due to their constant touring. Their bodies need time to heal and there will come a point where they won't be able to take anymore before getting seriously injured or worse popping the pills. The Wellness Policy should hopefully prolong some of these guys careers also.

1) Owen
2) Savage
3) Sell, Owens time had come and gone, he peaked in 94
4) Unbelievably Amazed, same goes for Sheik
5) three things, make companies responsible for the wrestlers medical insurance and make it mandatory that every single Wrestler contracted to a federation has 8 weeks paid holiday per year (excluding normal days off) and Create a government backed Wrestler's Union

Gaffer - I agree about the health insurance and holiday issues but there is no way that either the US Government or Vince McMahon would allow a wrestler's union to develop...

It isn't up to Vince McMahon, its up to the Wrestlers, the top guys would need to take a major role though

Pro Wrestling isn't solely syndicated to The WWE, There is hundreds of Wrestling companies in the US and thousands of Wrestler's outside of the WWE, if top guys in the WWE joined a Union inicitive then more would follow, Vince would be forced to accept, with main stream guys like Jesse Ventura willing to back it then it could be a possibillity

the-gaffer wrote:Pro Wrestling isn't solely syndicated to The WWE, There is hundreds of Wrestling companies in the US and thousands of Wrestler's outside of the WWE, if top guys in the WWE joined a Union inicitive then more would follow, Vince would be forced to accept, with main stream guys like Jesse Ventura willing to back it then it could be a possibillity

Whilst there is the potential for this American culture is extremely anti the Union movement. An indication of this is that the most right wing party in American (the Republicans) have their traditional heartland in lower paid, blue collar workers. Therefore I can't see it happening.

Also, all the top guys would have to do this together and most of them see that their bread is better buttered by Vince. If one came out they would be FE'd very quickly and there would be the fear that if they went as a group others would fall away when the going got tough.

Wrestling may have a large number of promotions, but to have influence it would need the WWE to be involved and also, if the WWE weren't the others wouldn't get involved as they would then be blackballed by Vince.

I would also say that some of the people who move into wrestling don't always come from the best of backgrounds of family lives. While they may have problems within the industry that is not to say that they wouldn't have had problems outside of it as well.

Shocked - Benoit

Saddened - Davey Boy Smith

I remember being gutted when Brian Pillman popped his clogs too.

If a top guy, Randy Orton for instance, someone who is known to be outspoken and a bit of a rebel came out in support of a Union do you really think he would get FE'ed? Even if he did that would get the mainstream media onside from the off and get more people following suit. With the death ratio and high profile tradgedies of Pro Wrestling has seen then the pressure from the media and potentially the government would give a Wrestler's Union all the Credabillity it needs, do you honestly think that in a period where Vince's wife has such links with the government that Vince would risk WWE's name and reputation

1. What death in wrestling shocked you the most?
- Benoit, for obvious reasons

2. What death in wrestling saddened you the most?
- Because they were my favourites: Eddie, Pillman and Macho Man.
- Because they were predictable: Pillman, Louie Spicolli, Hawk, Davey Boy, Lance Cade, etc

3. Buy or sell: Owen Hart would have been a multiple time World Champion had he not died.
- No chance. As talented as he was, I believe his moment as a main eventer had passed. He may have eventually got a short goodwill title reign, but I just don't think he was ever going to be one of the top stars in the company.

4. In an industry where guys dying is not shocking, how surprised are you to see Scott Hall still alive? Jake Roberts?
- Very. It's a testament to the human body's sheer willpower to survive abuse.

5. How can the wrestling industry improve so that guys don't drop dead at such young ages?
- Mandatory time off, less pressure to "work hurt", less pressure to maintain a perfect physique, indiscriminate drug testing of the whole roster, health insurance...Basically wrestling promotions treating their performers as valued employees rather than sweatshop workers.

the-gaffer wrote:If a top guy, Randy Orton for instance, someone who is known to be outspoken and a bit of a rebel came out in support of a Union do you really think he would get FE'ed? Even if he did that would get the mainstream media onside from the off and get more people following suit. With the death ratio and high profile tradgedies of Pro Wrestling has seen then the pressure from the media and potentially the government would give a Wrestler's Union all the Credabillity it needs, do you honestly think that in a period where Vince's wife has such links with the government that Vince would risk WWE's name and reputation

It's a lovely idea, but it will never happen. The way WWE is set up, and has always been set up, the rewards for getting to the top are so great. Like a microcosm of the "American Dream", and the reason so many blue collar workers vote Republican, so few make it to the top, but the riches for those who do make it are so great. It encourages and breeds selfishness and greed, and there will never be enough main event wrestlers who are willing all at once to jeopardise their riches for the greater good.

Once you arrive at main event level, the money is astronomical compared to even midcard salaries. You have the power to demand time off without repercussions. Your travel schedule is made more comfortable (a number of main eventers travel on Vince's jet or have their own company bus). You might even get health insurance! All of the things a union would demand, you have, in addition to millions of dollars a year.

So, the only ones who have the power to unionise the wrestlers no longer have the motivation. And even if one or two of them do, that's not enough unless they are John Cena, Randy Orton, Undertaker or Triple H. And even if all of those four formed a union, WWE could pressure every other wrestler on the roster into not joining. So the only wrestlers who were protected would be the ones who were protected anyway. Everyone outside those top four is interchangeable, and therefore expendable. And they know it, so they wouldn't join a union for fear of risking their jobs.

The only way it would work would be if most of the main eventers and most of the rest of the roster all formed a union together at once, and had an unbreakable loyalty to each other. Human nature suggests this just wouldn't happen, but even if it did, I think Vince would find a short-term way of diffusing the situation without WWE officially recognising any kind of wrestlers' union.

Just a note about how many days they work...


John Cena does about 5 mins work per match and hardly takes rough bumps. He prob go til hrs 50's

He does more pr work than actual wrestling.

HitmanOwl wrote:Just a note about how many days they work...


John Cena does about 5 mins work per match and hardly takes rough bumps. He prob go til hrs 50's

He does more pr work than actual wrestling.

that's because he's carrying a few injuries at the moment believed to be his back and hip

In general cena doesn't have long matches,he still can get injured at any given. Don't get me wrong but with his superman gimmick he is less likely to get injured than most others. Hes more of a actor than a wrestler. In my opinion anyway.

The average WWE wrestler will work four or five matches a week, at 15-20 minutes per match as part of a three-hour house show (I would estimate at least five hours from the time they arrive at the venue to the time they leave), in addition to travelling between venues (usually a couple of hundred miles a night, give or take), heavy training sessions at the gym and personal appearances for the company.

kanes mask

1) Chris Benoit easily. I couldn't believe it even after I had seen it on the news. Although I think that was more his actions than his death so for actual death it was probably Savage, it just seemed to come from no where, and it's a shame he never got chance to repair things with Vince and the WWE.

2) Eddie Guerrero.

3) Sell: Probably because of Bret rather than him.

4) I am very surprised that Scott Hall is still around, I can only presume it's because it's problems are so public that he is always getting support and help about them.

5) Everybody else has really covered this, don't think there's anything else I'd add.

I would also say WWE wrestlers don't wrestle anywhere near 365 days a year anymore, the most guys will work per week is 4 nights (unless they're on a European tour) which equates to 200 days a year give or take the week off they have at Christmas/New Year

1. What death in wrestling shocked you the most?
Benoit

2. What death in wrestling saddened you the most?
Crush of demolition

3. Buy or sell: Owen Hart would have been a multiple time World Champion had he not died.
Sell, he was never really rated. He was a family man who was never dedicated and ruthless in the way champions need to be. He normally got stuck in silly roles like the Blue Blazer and high energy. He only got a push because Bret was champion and had a lot of clout. All champions like to work with people they can trust and who wont put a knife in their back, Bret could trust Owen, Neidheart and the British Bulldog, hence why he worked with them at various times during his reign.

4. In an industry where guys dying is not shocking, how surprised are you to see Scott Hall still alive? Jake Roberts?
I'm more amazed the Iron Shiek is still alive! Some guys can endure more than others that's all.

5. How can the wrestling industry improve so that guys don't drop dead at such young ages?
It can't in any form of entertainment you will have people who get into the party and drug scene to much and believe their own hype. Then they get fired or get old and suddenly people forget them, or they no longer have the money to pay for the excesses and get depressed or kill themselves. It's not wrestling just a fact of the entertainment business. Vince doesnt put drugs into these people they do it themselves. The smart ones finish with money and a happy family, the stupid ones end up in a grave or in the gutter feeling bitter.

1. What death in wrestling shocked you the most?
Chris Benoit's for the obvious reasons, and the fact that I heard about it whilst in Walt Disney World of all places!

2. What death in wrestling saddened you the most?
Eddie Guerrero's. At that time he was my hero, and I always used to imitate him. I wore my Eddie Guerrero Viva La Raza t-shirt for like a week after that.

3. Buy or sell: Owen Hart would have been a multiple time World Champion had he not died.
I don't really have an opinion on this as I am too young to even know what Owen Hart was like in the ring.

4. In an industry where guys dying is not shocking, how surprised are you to see Scott Hall still alive? Jake Roberts?
To be honest, I am suprised that more wrestlers havent died, especially those ones who landed on their necks or even worse broke them (Lesnar, Lita, Chyna all come to mind). And had WWE medics not spotted Edge's injuries, then we may now even have lost one one of the greatest superstars of the modern era.

5. How can the wrestling industry improve so that guys don't drop dead at such young ages?
I'm not really the best person to ask so, Im just going lto leave this one out.


Just a three little facts for you:

1) 3 days a year - Superstars spend giving interveiws.

2) 6 hours - The average Superstar spends signing autographs during any session.

3) 250 - Out of ring appearances per year a Superstar makes.

Source: WWE Magazine UK July 2011