Welsh World Cup Squad - Fullback Options???

Well here is the final positional vote, who do you reckon should take the fifteen shirt and make it there own until we have won the World Cup?

All the talk of who and where and why and why not etc has got me a lot more confident of the possibilities of this world cup. Great looking squad so far and they should go well hoping fitness and form all hit the right note.

So Fullbacks...!

Well Byrne has been the man in the Hotseat since 2008 when he made the role his own, not just for Wales but for the Lions as well with a blisteringly good season, unfortunately has been dogged with injuries since and not shown any consistency at all. When fit he shows glimmers of his best but always looks a little un match fit and needy of more game time.

Stoddard was the last man to take the fifteen role, against the Baa Baas, did well, bags of pace, good open field runner, quick to spot a weakness, better defensively than we anticipate, often overly quoted as his big weakness. But he is fast and he can also play wing.

Priestland was probably the form number 15 at the regions this year, very quick, great hands, good boot, a goal kicker can play fly half, scores a lot of tries for the scarlets.

Halfpenny, pretty untried at fullback but often a favourite by frequenting Welsh cyber-pundits on 606. I have seen him once or twice at 15 for the Blues, never in a do or die match, great in attack poor in defence, positionally speaking. Good boot, big goal kicker very fast and a good rugby brain.

Jamie Roberts, Under 20s Fullback a few seasons ago, also played as back up to ben blair at 15 for a season with the Blues. Looked more comfortable at fifteen than at center to me, but Gatland sees him in midfield. I think he may have finished an early match for Wales at 15 in 2008? great player in a straight line, doesnt have much else though.

James Hook, Mr Versatile, had to put him on the short list as he has had a few runs there for Wales, not bad at it either though didnt set the world alight.

Gavin Henson, capped at fullback a number of times, played their often at the ospreys, looks comfortable, huge kicking game, faster than you think and he is a solid defender (was a solid defender).

Likely to only take one fullback.

Hmmm I wanted to pick Stoddart and Byrne, settled for Stoddart in the end as he's the player in form at the moment (even with his thigh strain!) also he is able to cover wing as well. Also chose him with the thought in mind that I've also picked Priestland in my squad and he can cover full back too.

I definately think you have to choose Priestland - either play him 80 mins at FB or 10 against England and Argentina to give him the gametime he should have had during the 6 Nations and finally give Byrne some competition.

I think he is the best of the competition as Hook is not, and has been proved to be not, a FB - he should be either a Centre or a 10 - one or the other, not both. Stoddart is very good, though not sure is positional play and defence (while good and improving) is quite good enough for defence, though I am open to being proved wrong.
Halfpenny and Roberts haven't played there enough and Roberts in particular should only be considered in his natural position.

And Henson? You're having a laugh.

Gatland though will probably only take one 15 - Byrne, and then either rely on Stoddart/Halfpenny as cover or Priestland.

I've gone for Morgan Stoddard not sure why, but Bryne is off form and I'd like to see Halfpenny as the Full Back after the World Cup, but Stoddard did well against the Barbarians in attack so deserves a run until he screws up.

STODDART is the correctly spelling and he gets my vote

Have gone for Byrne because I think if he is fit he will start regadless of who else is there.

I hope he takes Stoddart as a XV that way Brew might get the nod.

We have 4 others as well in Priestland Halfpenny Roberts and Hook who could cover there

I like Byrne when fit and on form, so many injuries though over his career.

I am not sure why some of you dislike Hook at Fullback so much, I thought he gave a good account of himself there. I agree he is a better player in the center or at flyhalf but he is not a bad Fullback either and it is great to know that he has experience there should we need to utilise it if Byrne, or AN OTHER got injured during a match.

mm,

I don't doubt his ability there same as I don't doubt James' ability at L/Head but wouldn't start him there. I just think Hooks ability is wasted at XV, over the past two seasons we have had chances to blood a new XV but IMO Gatland took the easy option and moved Hook back there.

For me Hook has to start at 10 or centre

bedfordwelsh wrote:mm,

I don't doubt his ability there same as I don't doubt James' ability at L/Head but wouldn't start him there. I just think Hooks ability is wasted at XV, over the past two seasons we have had chances to blood a new XV but IMO Gatland took the easy option and moved Hook back there.

For me Hook has to start at 10 or centre

I don't like him in the centre his tackling is too weak, he needs to be Fly Half or not in the team.
I'm not really sure what he offers as a Full Back either. Stoddard seems to be the best option at the moment because his running game especially against the Barbarians was brilliant.

My choice was going to be Byrne first with Stoddard as back up wing/full back.

Unfortunately I did not know I could only vote for one player so Stoddard has recieved my vote in error.

Looking at the scoring, I wonder how many other posters have done that?

I disagree about Hook giving himself a god account at FB - I thought he was a liability in defence as his lack of experience there meant his positional play was exposed and as he was so far from the action he was usually anonymous in attack.

Maybe if you ask the mods nicely they may know how to let you re cast your vote.

I am sorry but i chose not to make this a multi vote poll due to the fact that we will likely have only one out and out fullback, i also wanted to gage peoples thoughts on the other options...

As so many people rate, or suggest the other options as a permenantly solution, so kind of asking them to stick to their guns i guess.

apologies for any confusion.

bedfordwelsh wrote:mm,

I don't doubt his ability there same as I don't doubt James' ability at L/Head but wouldn't start him there. I just think Hooks ability is wasted at XV, over the past two seasons we have had chances to blood a new XV but IMO Gatland took the easy option and moved Hook back there.

For me Hook has to start at 10 or centre

Fair point mate...!

But I disagree on the chances to blood other players, I don't think anyone really put their hand up to replace or even contest Byrne since 2008. The only player around 2008 that i thought deserved a shot was Jamie Roberts who i thought was a very good fullback for the Under 20s and for the Blues. In 2009, Roberts was defined as a center so he went out of the equation, Dan Evans and Martyn Thomas both looked clever but maybe a little light weight. 2010 saw Priestland actually accept the role and really do well with it at the scarlets, the previous year i thought he had a very poor season. The other contenders were Barry Davies (injury prone) and possibly Prydie (lightweight and very inexperienced).

2011 saw a few players put themselves forward, Harries, Fussell, Czekaj, and my personal favourites the young Dan Fish and Steffan Jones (mods correct spelling ? ? ? )... As well as that Priestland really shone at fullback for the Scarlets and Morgan regained fitness.

We should have plenty of options, if all fit next season. Things dont look bad for the future either, with Liam Williams, Steven Shingler and Iolo Evans all looking good, Prydie to come back, maybe Gareth Owen to get a few more games after he sorts his injuries out...

Nice to see Dan Fish and Steffan Jones getting a mention they do look promising.
I think Prydie is going to be a lot like Gareth Thomas, jack of all trades but master of none, I expect him to spend his career on the bench for Wales or filling in all over the backline from 11 to 15. Though versatile players do tend to get lots of caps!

AlynDavies wrote:Nice to see Dan Fish and Steffan Jones getting a mention they do look promising.
I think Prydie is going to be a lot like Gareth Thomas, jack of all trades but master of none, I expect him to spend his career on the bench for Wales or filling in all over the backline from 11 to 15. Though versatile players do tend to get lots of caps!

Prydie has amazing pace, that is mainly what got him and young Phillips noticed at such a young age. He looks good at premiership level, with his contemporaries and very good at Under 18s a few years ago.

I think he is still physically underdeveloped, good wide shoulders on a skinny frame, might make a man out of him yet??? And if we do, then lets hope he becomes a hell of a player.

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I disagree about Hook giving himself a god account at FB - I thought he was a liability in defence as his lack of experience there meant his positional play was exposed and as he was so far from the action he was usually anonymous in attack.

Agree with you here
Hook has never given a good account at FB.

Hook is a very brave player and doesnt shirk out of the tackle however his biggest weakness is his awareness (positional) play, hence he is a liability in defence, and in attack his poor awareness / positional play meant he rarely made the angled runs (ALA a form Byrne) needed at FB.

He is going to be your biggest selection problem, he cannot bring Roberts into play at centre, so that leaves the 10 position of which I believe the oposition blindside will be on him in a flash, But we all know that Gatland will pick him probably for all 3 roles in consecutive games

Maesteg
Surely Wales will select two FBs

Yes Prydie has only just turned 19 an it's clear he will become naturally heavier as his body develops into adult hood in his early 20's.
Though this will be at the expense of his pace. That's if he recovers from the double knee surgery he's just had.

flyhalffactory wrote:

Smirnoffpriest wrote:I disagree about Hook giving himself a god account at FB - I thought he was a liability in defence as his lack of experience there meant his positional play was exposed and as he was so far from the action he was usually anonymous in attack.

Agree with you here
Hook has never given a good account at FB.

Hook is a very brave player and doesnt shirk out of the tackle however his biggest weakness is his awareness (positional) play, hence he is a liability in defence, and in attack his poor awareness / positional play meant he rarely made the angled runs (ALA a form Byrne) needed at FB.

He is going to be your biggest selection problem, he cannot bring Roberts into play at centre, so that leaves the 10 position of which I believe the oposition blindside will be on him in a flash, But we all know that Gatland will pick him probably for all 3 roles in consecutive games

Maesteg
Surely Wales will select two FBs

I did originally say Good not GOD I think...!

Value your opinion and that you back it up lads..

I dont want him as a choice FB either, but as i said it is good that he has the experience there just incase of an on pitch injury super meltdown...! So i wouldnt say him having played there was a waste it was a good experiment and something wales can benefit from.

There is another positive, which as a man who played every position in the team apart from prop or lock at some time or another in years gone by, (I grew early and moved from the back row outwards ending up at 9) I learned a lot about what the other positions involved, it helped me to be a better player being able to understand what their game involves, positionally, defensively and so on...

I hope they have hook at Flyhalf i think it is his best position, but his previous, multi positional career path will make him a better player now...

flyhalffactory wrote:
Maesteg
Surely Wales will select two FBs

I dont think they will, I think because there are several players likely to go who can cover fullback, considering Priestland or Stoddard for example as a probably bench player, then he will just select one...

AlynDavies wrote:Nice to see Dan Fish and Steffan Jones getting a mention they do look promising.
I think Prydie is going to be a lot like Gareth Thomas, jack of all trades but master of none, I expect him to spend his career on the bench for Wales or filling in all over the backline from 11 to 15. Though versatile players do tend to get lots of caps!

Fish and Jones look promising? Steffan is the Keys fly-half I believe, he's had two Regional games. Impressed in his first outing against the Blues, he looked very good at full back. Almost the opposite story against Ulster the week after but I still think he's one to take a look at over the course of next season?
Dan Fish... Not sure where to begin, perhaps at the point where Blues fans think he's capable of stepping into the 15 role. Poor mis-management of the Blues XV right now and Fish and Czekaj as the full-back options are just one outcome. I don't see what good attirbutes Fish can bring and he always seemed to make incorrect decisions when I've seen him, such as booting the ball away when there's a chance to run it. There's a few very promising U20's attatched to the Blues Region right now, particulary back-row and I see the Blues not doing what they were set up for.

You seem to rate them higher then Prydie, although I could be wrong there? Prydie's already started for Wales against NZ and SA, couldn't ask for more from an 18 year old, or perhaps he was still 17 at the time?

I voted for the only full back on the list, the rest either don't play there or cover full back. As Flyhalf stated regarding Hook, positioning and angles of running are important in attack, Hook is wasted at 15 but he better than most. I like Barry Davies when he is fit and Dan Fish looks a dangerous attacking option but lacking game time. For me it has to be Bryne and B Davies and uses other to cover. FB is a specialist position, I know why Gatland puts Hook there is his long kicking.

to be fair henson ON FORM, at fullback would be quality would allow us to play
9-knoyle
10-hook
11-shane
12-Davies/Roberts (dont know who plays inside and who plays outside)
13- (see above)
14-halfpenny/North
15-Henson


However it will either be byrne or stoddart (priestland another option)

as an alternative

knoyle
priestland
williams
henson
hook
halfpenny
byrne

???

byrne to start anyone from stoddart halfpenny priestland hook to cover

Has to be Byrne, doesn't it? Nobody else has had enough game time there really. But since I have to choose, Leigh Halfpenny for having the boot, speed and awareness having played there most of his life. That's on the condition we have a rush defence and Brew and Stoddart on the wings to help cover tackle.

I think Henson at full back is as wasted as Hook at full back. I think a massive contributing factor to us losing to Ireland in 2009 was because Henson got moved to full back; our backline as a weapon became completely impotent. We needed Gav there to mark O'Driscoll. This was down to Gatland too though for opting for an out of form Mark Jones to start and not having Halfpenny in the 22.

for me i'd love
Knoyle
Jones
Williams
Davies
Roberts
Halfpenny
Priestland

But it ain't gonna happen

Smirnoffpriest wrote:for me i'd love
Knoyle
Jones
Williams
Davies
Roberts
Halfpenny
Priestland

But it ain't gonna happen

Smiroff
That's about bang on why is my selection........... with one or two reservations I think

1. Priestland still hasnt that 100% cocky self belief
2. Priestland, Williams, 1/2p are a tad too lightweight in defence

I would bench Priestland instead of Hook, personally I think he is currently a better 15 and 10 than Hooky

15 1/2p
14 North
11 Williams

13 Davies
12 Roberts

10 Jones
9 Knoyle

Bench
Stoddart covers 15 14 11
Priestland covers 15 10

You make some good points FHF - I agree Priestland is too inexperienced and am very annoyed at Gatland for not giving him a proper run in the team at 15 to build up his confidence so he can challenge at 10 and 15 properly.

But I think (and I never thought I'd say this and await condemnation) if the defence is seen as lightweight (and I don't think Priestland is lightweight in defence) then I'd drop Williams for North instead and have

15 Priesland
14 North
11 1/2Penny

But then which ever way is a lot better than
Phillips
Hook
Williams
Roberts
Bishop
North
Byrne

Which is a lot more likely

AAAAARGH! Byrne's in front!!!! How can this be? OK I get it, he's pretty much the only experienced option. IMHO he's so bad now it would be worth taking a punt on someone else. I'd say Jamie Roberts but as an outsider shot to nothing I'd give young Steffan Jones of Cross Keys and now the Dragons a go. Has all the attributes to make a good fullback. To be fair I feel pretty desperate when it comes to our full back options!

"But I think (and I never thought I'd say this and await condemnation) if the defence is seen as lightweight (and I don't think Priestland is lightweight in defence) then I'd drop Williams for North instead"

Here you have your condemnation, Norths tackling is appaling, worse then shane's or hp's, as for priestland i havent seen enough of him at FB tbh, Byrnes defensive and positional play is very good, what brings him down atm imo is his lack of brain at times, just making very stupid decisions or failing to mke touch...

i think gatand will take 2 fb, byrne and stoddart, but for me, unless byrne sorts hmself out (which i am more optimistic about thn phillips) it has to be stodds

I disagree with you on North and think you're being very harsh.

I do agree tho that Gatland will take Byrne and Stoddard, but Stoddard is more a wing than a fullback and has most of his best games on the wing - and Byrne who will play most of Wales' games - hasn't had any form for ages - and while I agree his positional play is very good, atm he makes too many stupid mistakes and because of his lack of form doesn't come into the line with great angles like he used to.

He should have been dropped long ago for Priestland, Harries (sp?) or developed Prydie or Stoddard (so he can improve on the above).

sure im being harsh on north, he's still only young, i tried to look for some clips but "missed tackles" arent usually on clips, my point that he is worse defensively than the other wings, even Stoddart, remains.

That's more like it! Only 8% picking out the best full back in Britain.

Foden plays for us Glas..........

Halfpenny best fullback in Britain? not yet. Foden is still ahead of him and if Kearney's on form he is too

Mere flashes in the pan. Halfpenny is class.


(I note no Scottish protestations)

To be fair Glas, Halfpenny has only played a handful of games at Fullback, Fodens mere experience puts him ahead.

Potentially though with time Halfpenny could well grow into the role.

While Foden has more experience than Halfpenny at the highest level, I thought Halfpenny was a FB at age group rugby? In the modern game Wings play like auxillary full backs any way, so switching from wing to FB is a darn sight easier than from Scrum Half.

Does 1/2p play at FB for the Blues yet?

He hasn't played for the blues yet this year, after the world cup he had an operation to remove the titanium pins holding his foot to his leg.

Looking at the Blues last night though they need more than halfpenny, they have serious issues.

Yea he was a fullback throughout age group rugby and hes said that its his preferred position. But fate has kept him at wing till now. I was actually one of the few people who were applauding Gatland's decision while most people who haven't followed Halfpenny's age group said it was a daft one.

Still can't believe people are doubting Halfpennys ability at XV, I have championed him there for ages and he finally proved it at the WC.

I like Stoddart but think he is more suited to wing than XV

Halfpenny is just as much a threat in attack (or thereabouts) defensively nothing in it, but he can kick 50+ yard goals.