Franchise 2012-2014

We are fast approaching the july 26th announcement of the super league franchises and with Widnes already gaurenteed a place which club will lose theirs ?
Will it be only 1 or will Halifax gain a place and 2 current super league teams lose out ?
Its obvious Wigan , St Helens , Hull fc , Leeds, Warrington , Huddersfield , Bradford , and the afore mentioned Widnes will be in .... Catalans deserve to be in on performance also .
which leaves Hull KR , Castlford, Salford , Wakefield , Harlequins and Crusaders of these the teams mostly being mentioned to lose out are Salford and Wakefield with Wakey having been in administration the so called favourites to go ... but this is were i have a REAL problem as Crusaders have also been in administration and are bottom of the table because they have the fewest points but are unlikely to even be considered by the RFL to lose out on a franchise , then we have Harlequins who struggle to get 2500 attendances and have for years relied on loan and overseas signings .
Imo teams shouldnt be exempt just because RFL wont admit that expansion hasnt worked .

so which team/teams will go and which should go ?

I must admit im not a franchise fan i much prefered promotion and relagation system .

Crus and Quins owe RFL £ so put them in the "in" group.

Crusaders will stay because the RFL feel that they 'need' to help them out, Salford have a shiny new ground to look forward to, Quins are making strides in getting the sport played in schools well outside the RL 'heartlands', which leaves, Castleford, Wakefield and KR (from your list).
KR offer more than the other 2 IMO, so it's a shoot-out between the two South Leeds clubs and as Cas are finally getting their act together with a new ground (I'll believe it when I see it), it's bye bye Wakey.

BTW,

Wakey will go.

Crus, Quins should go and Widnes stay to reduce league back to 12.

Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

BicesterWarrior wrote:Crus and Quins owe RFL £ so put them in the "in" group.

I know Crusaders do, but i'm not sure about Quins.

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

I live in south wales mate, there is no way a pro rl team will ever work down here (it never has and it never will) Union has the pick of all the players, can offer more money, more in terms of prestige in the area and a better international calendar.

The scorpions have crowds of around 500 thats with tickets at under a tenner and kids for free no way can you sustain a pro team on that, they don;t even have their own ground it's dead in the water

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

I live in south wales mate, there is no way a pro rl team will ever work down here (it never has and it never will) Union has the pick of all the players, can offer more money, more in terms of prestige in the area and a better international calendar.

The scorpions have crowds of around 500 thats with tickets at under a tenner and kids for free no way can you sustain a pro team on that, they don;t even have their own ground it's dead in the water

Which probably meens RFL will get right behind it and waste hundreds of thousands of pounds , rather then investing in traditional clubs like Oldham or Rochdale or Keithley or Swinton or any number of clubs who deserve it .

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

I live in south wales mate, there is no way a pro rl team will ever work down here (it never has and it never will) Union has the pick of all the players, can offer more money, more in terms of prestige in the area and a better international calendar.

The scorpions have crowds of around 500 thats with tickets at under a tenner and kids for free no way can you sustain a pro team on that, they don;t even have their own ground it's dead in the water

Are you aware that a proposal for a 15,000 capacity Rugby League ground is before the planners in Bridgend now?
Its a slow burn process this time unlike the Crusaders situation which was rushed far to quickly.
Rugby League has always been a threat to union in south wales. you know it, i know it, the union authorities know. Whether you or they acknowledge that is of course up to you and them.
Lets not get into another Rugby League v union debate. This is a thread about franchises, not about which is the better Rugby code

Quins have taken RFL aid packages, so if they don't owe money they are certainly bound to the RFL.

Think the likes of Wigan. Warrington, Leeds, Huddersfield, Hull Fc, Saints and Catalans are all but guaranteed a place. As will Bradford but feel they are a club in decline over the last few years (especially for the period of the most recent licence)

Feel that given the static approach Wakefield have shown that if anyone else were to go in their place it would be a bit of a travesty.

Harlequins don't seem to offer much to the league as attendances are very poor, as is their on field performance. A few good games at the start doesn't make a season (as me been a Cas fan is more than aware of!!). However, they are the golden child of the RFL so will always be safe, unless a more successful London club gets started up.

Castleford and Salford have both got grounds approved, am unable to speak for Salford but Cas have a very good academy setup and are financially very strong. You could use Cas as the model for what the RFL wants a club to do to improve themselves. (new ground, Good Finance, 7000+ attenance, strong academy).

The only team I can see been a shock to not get a license is probably Hull Kr, but this is a longshot and will more than likely not happen.

If i'm honest I'd like to see a seperate French League setup so as to expand the game further. Think this would add alot more to the challenge cup and make it more established as a european competition. I know that there is overseas teams that compete but apart from Catalans and Toulouse they ain't that good.

I also feel that the RFL would of been better to have gradually expanded out of the M62 corridor. A midlands team, better established team in Cumbria, north of the border? Places where it's not too far of a leap from the Rugby League heartland that it might be better accepted.

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

I live in south wales mate, there is no way a pro rl team will ever work down here (it never has and it never will) Union has the pick of all the players, can offer more money, more in terms of prestige in the area and a better international calendar.

The scorpions have crowds of around 500 thats with tickets at under a tenner and kids for free no way can you sustain a pro team on that, they don;t even have their own ground it's dead in the water

Are you aware that a proposal for a 15,000 capacity Rugby League ground is before the planners in Bridgend now?
Its a slow burn process this time unlike the Crusaders situation which was rushed far to quickly.
Rugby League has always been a threat to union in south wales. you know it, i know it, the union authorities know. Whether you or they acknowledge that is of course up to you and them.
Lets not get into another Rugby League v union debate. This is a thread about franchises, not about which is the better Rugby code

Not getting a rl v ru debate but trust me that 15,000 seater has been mooted for years and not brick 1 has been built,

as for the franchise debate how can the rl not have a sl team in cumbria ? it's madness.


If wakey miss out it will be a sad day for the sport, although the rfl will no doubt try to push them into a merger with cas

can you see either set of fans being happy about that?

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:

George Hotel1895 wrote:

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Imo Crusaders should go into championship to let them build the club into a viable future super league team . They should never of got a franchise in the 1st place .

The Crusaders were rushed far to quickly into Super League by the RFL in their desire to have Welsh Team in Super League. I would suspect that they will remain in Super League for the foreseeable future. I suspect that within 6 years we will have a 2nd Welsh franchise, and a 2nd French francise in a 16 team Super League.

Can;t see it, the crusaders have lurched from 1 off field disaster to another and will likely finish bottom of the table for the 2nd time in 3 years.

Another welsh franchise is akin to commerical suicide. God knows why the rfl are not so keen to help heartland rl areas like cumbria

I think that the RFL will stick with them for now. Don't forget that Crusaders owe the RFL money and will want that money back at some stage. Keeping Crusaders in Super League in a way guarantee's that the money will be repaid in some way.
I really do think that the South Wales Scorpians as they are today will have a franchise for the 2015 season. I do know for fact that there is a hell of a lot going on in South Wales at the moment as regards Rugby League. A hell of lot compared to when the Crusaders come into Super League. Trust me the ground work is being done down there in preperation for a South Wales Franchise.

I live in south wales mate, there is no way a pro rl team will ever work down here (it never has and it never will) Union has the pick of all the players, can offer more money, more in terms of prestige in the area and a better international calendar.

The scorpions have crowds of around 500 thats with tickets at under a tenner and kids for free no way can you sustain a pro team on that, they don;t even have their own ground it's dead in the water

Are you aware that a proposal for a 15,000 capacity Rugby League ground is before the planners in Bridgend now?
Its a slow burn process this time unlike the Crusaders situation which was rushed far to quickly.
Rugby League has always been a threat to union in south wales. you know it, i know it, the union authorities know. Whether you or they acknowledge that is of course up to you and them.
Lets not get into another Rugby League v union debate. This is a thread about franchises, not about which is the better Rugby code

Not getting a rl v ru debate but trust me that 15,000 seater has been mooted for years and not brick 1 has been built,

as for the franchise debate how can the rl not have a sl team in cumbria ? it's madness.


If wakey miss out it will be a sad day for the sport, although the rfl will no doubt try to push them into a merger with cas

can you see either set of fans being happy about that?

Cumbria did have a team in Super League in the very first season, and to date the are the worst side i have ever seen in Super League.
Which Cumbrian club would like to side promoted to Super League?
Has that club got the stadium and infrastructure to support a Super League team?
As for Wakefield they have been their own worst enemys in Super League on many issues.
First of all they promised the RFL that they would build a new stadium or redevelop belle vue, 13 years later still no confirmation of a new ground, or redevelopment of Belle Vue.
They said that they would play all there TV home games at Oakwell, they played 1.
Belle view is so outdated it wouldn't even be fit enough to host games in Soccers 5th tier.
Their junior development is an absolute joke, look at their 2 latest overseas signings, they would have a job to get a start in a National league 1 side they are that poor.
Wakey have pulled the wool over the RFL eyes for far too long, but for them now the game is up. The chickens have come home to roost for the Wildcats .

Well any cumbrian side is going to have a better fan base, history and infrasturcture than the crusaders had and they are not likely to up sticks and move 90 miles away like the welsh side were allowed to, that's without the visa issues, the going into adminstation issue all within 3 years if being in super leauge , can you imagine a heartland club being allowed to trade like that?

Why not have barrow whitehaven etc all feed into 1 cumbrian franchise which plays all over the region.

Bellevue needs a refurb but so did knowsley road and there are a dozen grounds within 20 miles that wakey could play at.

IS north wales really more deserving of a rl top flight side than wakefield or even a widnes whne you look at what those sides and their fans have added to the history of rl?

no chance imo

jb1973 wrote:Well any cumbrian side is going to have a better fan base, history and infrasturcture than the crusaders had and they are not likely to up sticks and move 90 miles away like the welsh side were allowed to, that's without the visa issues, the going into adminstation issue all within 3 years if being in super leauge , can you imagine a heartland club being allowed to trade like that?

Why not have barrow whitehaven etc all feed into 1 cumbrian franchise which plays all over the region.

Bellevue needs a refurb but so did knowsley road and there are a dozen grounds within 20 miles that wakey could play at.

IS north wales really more deserving of a rl top flight side than wakefield or even a widnes whne you look at what those sides and their fans have added to the history of rl?

no chance imo

Can you really see Barrow, Whitehaven and workington acting as Feeder clubs to a Cumbrian Super League team i can't.
I have already said that the Crusaders were not ready for Super League, thats why the RFL are giving the South Wales Scorpians time to grow. They got their fingers burnt on that one, it won't happen again.
If Wakey were serious about a new ground they would have done something about it 12 years ago, not now. They can't afford to redevelop Belle Vue they haven't got the dosh. Wakey will be out of Super League after this season, and won't be back until they have a new ground.I will probably be dead before Wakey return to Super League, if their past history of getting things done is anything to go by.

Agree i cant see those teams being a feeder club to Cumbrian sl team , i do hope your wrong on a 2nd welsh club . I will feel sorry for Wakey though if they lose out

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:Agree i cant see those teams being a feeder club to Cumbrian sl team , i do hope your wrong on a 2nd welsh club . I will feel sorry for Wakey though if they lose out

I don't think i'm wrong on a 2nd Welsh Franchise or a 2nd French franchise. Thats why the RFL bend over backwards to try and get Toulouse into Super League. They see 2 Welsh and 2 French teams as a way of improving them countries international teams through junior development of locals. That they hope then will raise the profile of international Rugby League in this part Europe.

I do get RFL wanting to raise the profile of rugby league in europe but in all honesty cant see it working , rugby league just doesnt have the pull to take supporters from union or football in europe . Yes it maybe played in some countries but its not going to gain the popuality of other sports .

Rugby league imo needs supporting in the traditional heartland not by expanding into europe .

KINGKENNY7HEAVEN wrote:I do get RFL wanting to raise the profile of rugby league in europe but in all honesty cant see it working , rugby league just doesnt have the pull to take supporters from union or football in europe . Yes it maybe played in some countries but its not going to gain the popuality of other sports .

Rugby league imo needs supporting in the traditional heartland not by expanding into europe .

There is a lot more certain heartland clubs could do to give the game a boost, and it wouldn't cost a lot of money, but it would involve some people leaving the comfort of their offices and doing a little bit of walking.

George Hotel1895 wrote:

jb1973 wrote:Well any cumbrian side is going to have a better fan base, history and infrasturcture than the crusaders had and they are not likely to up sticks and move 90 miles away like the welsh side were allowed to, that's without the visa issues, the going into adminstation issue all within 3 years if being in super leauge , can you imagine a heartland club being allowed to trade like that?

Why not have barrow whitehaven etc all feed into 1 cumbrian franchise which plays all over the region.

Bellevue needs a refurb but so did knowsley road and there are a dozen grounds within 20 miles that wakey could play at.

IS north wales really more deserving of a rl top flight side than wakefield or even a widnes whne you look at what those sides and their fans have added to the history of rl?

no chance imo

Can you really see Barrow, Whitehaven and workington acting as Feeder clubs to a Cumbrian Super League team i can't.
I have already said that the Crusaders were not ready for Super League, thats why the RFL are giving the South Wales Scorpians time to grow. They got their fingers burnt on that one, it won't happen again.
If Wakey were serious about a new ground they would have done something about it 12 years ago, not now. They can't afford to redevelop Belle Vue they haven't got the dosh. Wakey will be out of Super League after this season, and won't be back until they have a new ground.I will probably be dead before Wakey return to Super League, if their past history of getting things done is anything to go by.

Scorpions have no chance, they do't have the player or fan base, why would the rfl persist in throwing good money after bad when time after time pro rl has failed in south wales.

All their arguments have been heard a 100 times before and everytime a new team starts here it fails within a few years.

thats the thing its an im all right jack attitude , when a strong club base would benefit everyone if your Oldhams or Rochdales were helped it would help bring on new talent then maybe we could not have to rely on overseas players so much .

A stronger core of clubs in all divisions were actual promotion was a possibility would be good for the game at all levels from school boys coming into the game to the England side having a better pool of players to choose from.