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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ? Empty Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 13:40

Juan Manuel Marquez will obviously challenge Manny Pacquiao next at a catchweight of 144lbs, but why wasn't he stripped for the Mayweather fight? and will he be stripped for this one finally? he's clearly the best lightweight in the world but cannot keep moving up a weight, then keeping other contenders waiting, Martinez was stripped, Bradley was stripped for lesser things, fair enough wanting big fights but you can't have it both ways, and surely cant defend your titles on a comprehensive defeat? i think he gets special treatment myself.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 13:43

To my knowledge he's yet to not face his mandatory challenger, he beat Katsidis after which he gets to fight whoever he so chooses

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 13:46

Marquez didn't lose his LIGHTWEIGHT titles because he didn't lose at LIGHTWEIGHT. The governing bodies would gain zip from stripping Marquez.

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Post by 88Chris05 Sun 17 Jul - 13:48

He defended the titles against his Lightweight mandatory less than a year ago, so should imagine he'll be safe from any punishment / stripping until November at least. Don't see how he gets 'special treatment' to be honest; yes, some others have been stripped of belts, but on the other hand Pacquiao has held the WBO Welterweight belt for twenty months and hasn't fought a mandatory for it in all that time.

By the way, even though you don't like Marquez, surely even you know it's stupid to suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to defend them after a non-Lightweight defeat, given that it's taking place outside of Lightweight and therefore has no bearing on his 135 lb credentials. Jesus...
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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 13:51

Imperial Ghosty wrote:To my knowledge he's yet to not face his mandatory challenger, he beat Katsidis after which he gets to fight whoever he so chooses
The Pacquiao fight isn't at lightweight, that's my point. If he loses which imo he will against Pacquiao he shouldn't get to keep the title. You can't strip 1 fighter then not another just because of his reputation.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 17 Jul - 13:52

Should they maybe give them straight to Mitchell?

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 13:54

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Should they maybe give them straight to Mitchell?

He'd probably quit halfway through the handing-over... Wink

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 13:57

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:To my knowledge he's yet to not face his mandatory challenger, he beat Katsidis after which he gets to fight whoever he so chooses
The Pacquiao fight isn't at lightweight, that's my point. If he loses which imo he will against Pacquiao he shouldn't get to keep the title. You can't strip 1 fighter then not another just because of his reputation.

Which is the major point the fight is not at lightweight, he faced and beat his mandatory challenger in Katsidis after which he can fight whoever he wants at whatever weight he wants. Martinez was stripped of his titles because he firstly won the middleweight title and then did not face his mandatory challenger in Sebastian Zbik. Two entirely different situations as it stands, if by some divine miracle Marquez wins then I fully expect he would be stripped of his titles.

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Post by Scottrf Sun 17 Jul - 13:58

Yes, he should. WBO Champions have to defend their titles at intervals no greater than 9 months apart, which would be start of September.

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 13:58

88Chris05 wrote:He defended the titles against his Lightweight mandatory less than a year ago, so should imagine he'll be safe from any punishment / stripping until November at least. Don't see how he gets 'special treatment' to be honest; yes, some others have been stripped of belts, but on the other hand Pacquiao has held the WBO Welterweight belt for twenty months and hasn't fought a mandatory for it in all that time.

By the way, even though you don't like Marquez, surely even you know it's stupid to suggest that he shouldn't be allowed to defend them after a non-Lightweight defeat, given that it's taking place outside of Lightweight and therefore has no bearing on his 135 lb credentials. Jesus...

No, it's not stupid to suggest that at all, he gets beat @ww whilst other contenders are left hanging, then keeps the titles, if you move up you should move up with being stripped imo, then moves up again to fight Manny, he should be stripped imo. Pacquiao should also be stripped for fighting at lmw, it's shocking you can't keep the WBO title in Pacquiao's case then fight Margarito, doesn't add up. No bias off me, i'll treat all fighters the same, i'm a Pacquiao fan but likewise, he should br stripped off his welterweight title after moving up, you can't have it both ways imo.

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 13:59

BALTIMORA wrote:
Lumbering_Jack wrote:Should they maybe give them straight to Mitchell?

He'd probably quit halfway through the handing-over... Wink

Okay.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 14:00

Why can't a fighter hold titles at different weight?

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 14:00

Imperial Ghosty wrote:
Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:To my knowledge he's yet to not face his mandatory challenger, he beat Katsidis after which he gets to fight whoever he so chooses
The Pacquiao fight isn't at lightweight, that's my point. If he loses which imo he will against Pacquiao he shouldn't get to keep the title. You can't strip 1 fighter then not another just because of his reputation.

Which is the major point the fight is not at lightweight, he faced and beat his mandatory challenger in Katsidis after which he can fight whoever he wants at whatever weight he wants. Martinez was stripped of his titles because he firstly won the middleweight title and then did not face his mandatory challenger in Sebastian Zbik. Two entirely different situations as it stands, if by some divine miracle Marquez wins then I fully expect he would be stripped of his titles.

'Miracle', shouldn't being a great mean he'll win?

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 14:03

Pacquiao is a greater fighter and a genuine Welterweight, shouldn't Cotto have won then being such a great fighter or double standards again?

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 14:08

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:
Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:To my knowledge he's yet to not face his mandatory challenger, he beat Katsidis after which he gets to fight whoever he so chooses
The Pacquiao fight isn't at lightweight, that's my point. If he loses which imo he will against Pacquiao he shouldn't get to keep the title. You can't strip 1 fighter then not another just because of his reputation.

Which is the major point the fight is not at lightweight, he faced and beat his mandatory challenger in Katsidis after which he can fight whoever he wants at whatever weight he wants. Martinez was stripped of his titles because he firstly won the middleweight title and then did not face his mandatory challenger in Sebastian Zbik. Two entirely different situations as it stands, if by some divine miracle Marquez wins then I fully expect he would be stripped of his titles.

'Miracle', shouldn't being a great mean he'll win?

A great many people think Marquez won twice already...

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Post by The Galveston Giant Sun 17 Jul - 15:32

Was there anything fishy about his win last night or was the guy out cold. There's a little note on Boxrec.
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Post by Scottrf Sun 17 Jul - 15:34

The Galveston Giant wrote:Was there anything fishy about his win last night or was the guy out cold. There's a little note on Boxrec.
A strange looking one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuAD5elt-Y

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Post by The Galveston Giant Sun 17 Jul - 16:06

Scottrf wrote:
The Galveston Giant wrote:Was there anything fishy about his win last night or was the guy out cold. There's a little note on Boxrec.
A strange looking one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuAD5elt-Y

Brilliant Scott, cheers mate.
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Post by The Galveston Giant Sun 17 Jul - 16:11

The Galveston Giant wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
The Galveston Giant wrote:Was there anything fishy about his win last night or was the guy out cold. There's a little note on Boxrec.
A strange looking one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IuAD5elt-Y

Brilliant Scott, cheers mate.

It's not half, not sure how the fight was going at that point but looked liked he had had enough and decided to cushion his fall a bit and close his eyes, he definately took a decent one on the chin but i'm not sure if he was really unconcious.
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Post by Scottrf Sun 17 Jul - 16:12

If you want to see two guys give their all, watch Rodriguez vs Wolak, FNF's on ESPN.

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Post by The Galveston Giant Sun 17 Jul - 16:14

Scottrf wrote:If you want to see two guys give their all, watch Rodriguez vs Wolak, FNF's on ESPN.

Thanks Scott will check it out.
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Post by The Galveston Giant Sun 17 Jul - 16:18

You've got to be quick to comment on Tysonkings threads.
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Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sun 17 Jul - 16:50

Marquez moved up to welter to fight mayweather. You can't lose the lightweight titles in a welterweight fight. He moved back to 135, beat Diaz and then knocked out Katsidas who was his mandatory. Having beaten his mandatory he is allowed a voluntary defence, or time without facing the next mandatory. Pacquiao is a non lightweight fight so the titles won't be on the line, but I imagine Marquez will have to face his next mandatory after pacquiao or face being stripped. Anyway, if anyone gets special treatment it's pacquiao - he won the WBO welterweight title in november 2009 at a catchweight, it's now July 2011 and he hasn't defended against a single mandatory but they wouldn't dream of stripping him because of who he is. It shows how sanctioning bodies are a joke and ranking aren't worth the paper they're written on as long as the right person is getting the right money the whole system gets manipulated.
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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:22

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Pacquiao is a greater fighter and a genuine Welterweight, shouldn't Cotto have won then being such a great fighter or double standards again?

Not bias myself you know, honestly Very Happy as you said above Pacquiao is greater, he is also greater than Miguel. Cotto would absolutely smash Marquez to bits like i've said before, and is a better fighter imo, who has beat much better fighters imo. Marquez will never hold a title above lightweight imo.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 17 Jul - 18:24

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:Pacquiao is a greater fighter and a genuine Welterweight, shouldn't Cotto have won then being such a great fighter or double standards again?

Not bias myself you know, honestly Very Happy as you said above Pacquiao is greater, he is also greater than Miguel. Cotto would absolutely smash Marquez to bits like i've said before, and is a better fighter imo, who has beat much better fighters imo. Marquez will never hold a title above lightweight imo.

Cotto better than Marquez, really?

Cotto would probably beat MArquez, but he is a far bigger man. As talent goes Marquez is a fair distance ahead.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 18:26

What relevance does that have, Marquez is a former featherweight who clearly does not have the frame to compete above Lightweight although in a pound for pound would have him above Cotto based on very similar levels of fighters beaten but the Barrera win and Pacquiao struggles placing him higher.

So how does Marquez losing to Pacquiao at 144lbs bring into question his standing as a great fighter?

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:27

Lumbering_Jack wrote:
Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:Pacquiao is a greater fighter and a genuine Welterweight, shouldn't Cotto have won then being such a great fighter or double standards again?

Not bias myself you know, honestly Very Happy as you said above Pacquiao is greater, he is also greater than Miguel. Cotto would absolutely smash Marquez to bits like i've said before, and is a better fighter imo, who has beat much better fighters imo. Marquez will never hold a title above lightweight imo.

Cotto better than Marquez, really?

Cotto would probably beat MArquez, but he is a far bigger man. As talent goes Marquez is a fair distance ahead.

Yeah he is imo.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 18:28

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:Pacquiao is a greater fighter and a genuine Welterweight, shouldn't Cotto have won then being such a great fighter or double standards again?

Not bias myself you know, honestly Very Happy as you said above Pacquiao is greater, he is also greater than Miguel. Cotto would absolutely smash Marquez to bits like i've said before, and is a better fighter imo, who has beat much better fighters imo. Marquez will never hold a title above lightweight imo.

If a light middleweight wasn't able to 'smash to bits' a small lightweight then there's something wrong. Cotto started his career heavier than Marquez is now! I don't know why you persist in the 'he'd smash him' nonsense. Froch would smash him too. So would Lebedev. What's your point?

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:30

Imperial Ghosty wrote:What relevance does that have, Marquez is a former featherweight who clearly does not have the frame to compete above Lightweight although in a pound for pound would have him above Cotto based on very similar levels of fighters beaten but the Barrera win and Pacquiao struggles placing him higher.

So how does Marquez losing to Pacquiao at 144lbs bring into question his standing as a great fighter?
Your contradicting yourself, hugely. Pacquiao started off as a flyweight and is naturally the much smaller man than Marquez, that's enough said imo, ciao.

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Post by Lumbering_Jack Sun 17 Jul - 18:32

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:What relevance does that have, Marquez is a former featherweight who clearly does not have the frame to compete above Lightweight although in a pound for pound would have him above Cotto based on very similar levels of fighters beaten but the Barrera win and Pacquiao struggles placing him higher.

So how does Marquez losing to Pacquiao at 144lbs bring into question his standing as a great fighter?
Your contradicting yourself, hugely. Pacquiao started off as a flyweight and is naturally the much smaller man than Marquez, that's enough said imo, ciao.

He starting boxing at 16, so he was a boy.

If you fail to see the relevance of what Ghosty has stated then I fail to see how you can claim to be a boxing fan.

You are coming across a bit like D4 did which is not great.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 18:33

Contradicting myself in what way?

Pacquiao has the frame to compete above Lightweight something Marquez does not, he was also a huge flyweight who struggled to make weight, as proven by their fights he is in fact the naturally bigger man much like Mayweather starting lower than Hatton was the bigger man in their fight too.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 18:36

Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:What relevance does that have, Marquez is a former featherweight who clearly does not have the frame to compete above Lightweight although in a pound for pound would have him above Cotto based on very similar levels of fighters beaten but the Barrera win and Pacquiao struggles placing him higher.

So how does Marquez losing to Pacquiao at 144lbs bring into question his standing as a great fighter?
Your contradicting yourself, hugely. Pacquiao started off as a flyweight and is naturally the much smaller man than Marquez, that's enough said imo, ciao.

Given that Pacquiao started boxing pro about four years younger than Marquez I'm not sure how fair a comparison you're making. Given that Pacquiao has risen through the weights with greater ease than Marquez has, and is several years younger would suggest that he's not 'naturally' the much smaller man. Unless you're claiming there's something unnatural about the way he's travelled throught the higher divisions..?

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:51

BALTIMORA wrote:
Young_Towzer wrote:
Imperial Ghosty wrote:What relevance does that have, Marquez is a former featherweight who clearly does not have the frame to compete above Lightweight although in a pound for pound would have him above Cotto based on very similar levels of fighters beaten but the Barrera win and Pacquiao struggles placing him higher.

So how does Marquez losing to Pacquiao at 144lbs bring into question his standing as a great fighter?
Your contradicting yourself, hugely. Pacquiao started off as a flyweight and is naturally the much smaller man than Marquez, that's enough said imo, ciao.

Given that Pacquiao started boxing pro about four years younger than Marquez I'm not sure how fair a comparison you're making. Given that Pacquiao has risen through the weights with greater ease than Marquez has, and is several years younger would suggest that he's not 'naturally' the much smaller man. Unless you're claiming there's something unnatural about the way he's travelled throught the higher divisions..?

Marquez is naturally bigger than Manny and has a naturally bigger 'frame', he is much thicker set naturally, Manny moved up because he's a better fighter, Marquez if so good as people say should be able to move up and not be called a 'miracle' if he wins. Look at their body shapes when they fought at the same weight, Marquez is miles stockier and more thick set, something unnatural about the way Manny's moved up? no i don't do all that boring stuff, Mayweather's moved up from sfw to lmw is that unrealistic as well? or is Cotto moving from lww to lmw unrealistic as well? nah i don't do that stuff. Bores me to tears.

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 18:52

Lets compare the frame of 144lb Pacquiao to that of Marquez then tell me he's the naturally smaller man

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 Jul - 18:53

Marquez is a natural lightweight...not everybody moves up and carries there power with them....

Wilfredo Gomez anyone......Everything is black and white to you.

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 18:54

Towser, you're so, SO wrong on this one.

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:56

Imperial Ghosty wrote:Lets compare the frame of 144lb Pacquiao to that of Marquez then tell me he's the naturally smaller man

'Naturally', Pacquiao isn't naturally 144lb.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 Jul - 18:56

Quit with the insults or you'll get reported..

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 18:57

His ring weights would back you up of course wouldn't they Towzer?

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 18:58

BALTIMORA wrote:Towser, you're so, SO wrong on this one.
I'm absolutely bang on, Marquez is naturally 3 weights heavier, facts, don't let them hide the truth which is what i'm speaking though eh! haha.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 Jul - 18:58

Look Ghosty we all agree with you......Mate..

Don't need to force the point home.

The kid only started watching lBoxing last week

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Post by Imperial Ghosty Sun 17 Jul - 19:00

It's not even a challenge Truss, need someone more on my level like you to debate with mate

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Post by BALTIMORA Sun 17 Jul - 19:01

Young_Towzer wrote:
BALTIMORA wrote:Towser, you're so, SO wrong on this one.
I'm absolutely bang on, Marquez is naturally 3 weights heavier, facts, don't let them hide the truth which is what i'm speaking though eh! haha.

How heavy was Marquez at 16? Pacquiao is able to put on the weight more effectively, suggesting he's not the smaller guy. Against Cotto there was VERY little difference in the measurements.

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 19:02

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Quit with the insults or you'll get reported..

I haven't insulted anyone, report me though, i won't be dictated to by you, a known swearer. Feel free

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Post by Young_Towzer Sun 17 Jul - 19:04

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Look Ghosty we all agree with you......Mate..

Don't need to force the point home.

The kid only started watching lBoxing last week

Stop trying to then......
Did i?......thought i'd been on the forum at least 3 weeks.......Mr i'm right and your wrong if you don't love Curry, that's you Very Happy

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Post by AlexHuckerby Sun 17 Jul - 19:04

Think Marquez was more natural at SF in honesty but he can certainly compete at LW, I don't think he would have struggled with Diaz and Katsidis if he was natural at that weight imo...
And moving up against someone who in my opinion is a more natural LWW nowadays given how he's grown up into himself I don't really give him much of a chance fighting at 144, so I think it will be a miracle if he takes down Pac looking at it on paper.

HOWEVER not every fight is fought on paper and MArquez does certainly have a style that can trouble the PAcman but I worry that his body will not allow him to do it now at this weight and being 37 now.

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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ? Empty Re: Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 Jul - 19:09

I'll ignore the twonk...Think the fact the fight will be higher negates Marquez power and I think he's starting to look shot anyway....

Some guys don't carry their punch up......a la Gomez.

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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ? Empty Re: Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

Post by Sugar Boy Sweetie Sun 17 Jul - 19:11

Towzer you're wrong on this. Pacquiao started fighting pro age 16 at 105lb, but he was up at super bantam (4lb below Marquez) by the age of 20, having skipped superfly and bantam because he was too big.

Judging a fighter on his ability to move through the weights is wrong. Some guys don't have the physicality to do it but they doesn't make them less talented or skilful. Saying Cotto would smash Marquez is also ridiculous - cottos best career weight has been welter, Marquez's has been feather - the guy didn't even move up to lightweight til he was 35 years old. And Marquez is not naturally bigger than manny - manny has the frame to pack on muscle in order to move up, Marquez isn't a muscular athlete anything he puts on tends to be bulk which is why he was less effective above 140. Marquez and Cotto are both 3 weight champs and great fighters but on a p4p basis I'd rate Marquez better, but it's all about opinions.
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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ? Empty Re: Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

Post by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 17 Jul - 19:13

Wasting your time...according to this guy Cotto beats Ray Robinson...

But you're right no one would give Azumah nelson much chance against Donald Curry.

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Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ? Empty Re: Will Marquez be stripped of his lightweight titles ?

Post by AlexHuckerby Sun 17 Jul - 19:13

Don't think you can say he hasn't brought his power up to LW if that's what you're trying to insinuate stopping Katsidis is no mean feat, Guerrero couldn't and he must have landed 598209580958054890948505809 shots to the head on him.


Last edited by AlexHuckerby on Sun 17 Jul - 19:14; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed a word out D'oh!)

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