606v2 picks the best Irish Rwc 22: STARTING CENTRES

First topic message reminder :

First of all wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed over the past few days the debates have been pretty good for the most part. We have had nearly 1000 votes and nearly 600 comments and a lot of people have contributed to what has been a really good couple of days debating. It's been great to hear so many opinions (even ones I have disagreed with) and to get a feel for what everyone thinks of certain players. There were a number of very tight calls between Hayes and Buckley, O'Leary and Murray and McFadden and Fitzgerald so it's been interesting to see people's opinions being tested against those of others.

In this series gets the same great reaction and that we hear some more great debates that were started or were not touched on in the previous series. Calls like; should Jennings be on the bench, the backrow selections, the fullback selection, should Stringer be selected on the bench are all going to be very interesting and am looking forward to hearing everyones opinions.


The idea of this series is to establish the first choice front row, second row, backrow, halfbacks, centres, back3, forwards subs and backs subs. These debates I may leave a little longer than the previous series as more can be said about them. The idea is to chose the best 22 that we have be it on form, experience, partnerships, balance, fitness whatever.

Perhaps think of this as the team you want to line out against Australia

IN THE SERIES PLEASE LOOK AT THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN/YOU THINK WILL BE PICKED LATER IN THE SERIES, AS TO CREATE BALANCE IN THE TEAM
eg: Playing Flannery would mean needing a work horse somewhere else in the pack as Best does a lot of the donkey work.

IF A PLAYER IS IN OUR SQUAD PLEASE TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT THEY CAME THROUGH THE WARM UPS AND THUS HAVE SOME FORM (IF NOT A LOT) AND ARE SOMEWHAT FIT. THIS IS OBVIOUSLY A HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION.

We are going to use the squad that we (the 606v2 community) have chosen.

Healy, Ross, Buckley, Court
Best, Cronin, Flannery
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen, Ryan
Ferris, O'Brien, Wallace, Jennings, Heaslip
Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary*
Sexton, O'Gara
O'Driscoll, Darcy, Wallace
Bowe, Earls, Trimble, Kearney, Jones, McFadden

*O'Leary just beat Murray yesterday evening in the poll by one vote.

So far the team is

Healy-Best-Ross
O'Connell-O'Callaghan
Ferris-Heaslip-Wallace
Reddan-Sexton

Enjoy


O'DRISCOLL: First and foremost a superb leader. Outstanding defence in terms of tackling and positioning. Decision making is unqestionably excellent. Not as quick as he was over 40m or as agile but still quick enough over 60m+. Kicking game has improved remarkably. In attack very good at drawing more than one defender on to him and releasing other players around him with a huge range of passes. Excellent hands, low centre of gravity, fantastic rugby brain and top notch defender and defensive organiser.
DARCY: Recent ankle injury has sidelined him for 6+ weeks. Will miss at least 2 warm up games. Straight line runner with excellent leg drive. poor 6N but good post it for Leinster. Not so much a poor distributor skill wise he just elects not to distribute the ball the vast majority of the time. Doesn't have a great offloading game and is typically a crash ball/take it up the gut style centre. No real kicking game but generally solid on defence and generally makes few mistakes (6N aside)
WALLACE: A 12 with a lot of vision and would act as a second playmaker. Underrated defence and has improved his attack a lot also and frequently enough makes good breaks/half breaks. Capable of playing 10 and 15 (it would seem). Very good distribution, releases others into space and also is a good offloader of the ball. Has a good while not fantastic kicking game.
EARLS: Primarily a winger who may well be our fullback. Very quick and great acceleration. If given an inch of space is an expert at exploiting it and can be a good support line runner as well as primary/strike line runner. Has played centre internationally but not often and has played more in the back3. Passing and handling may not be up to international centre standards and also while a good tackler, can be caught out positionally at 13, be it not reading the play correctly or marking the wrong man.
MCFADDEN: Primarily a 12 but can play 13 and either wing also. Deceptively strong and can ride a tackle and pump the legs for yards extremely effectively. Deceptively quick as well over 40m or 100m. Good kicking game from hand and is also an accomplished goal kicker. Has a good range of passes and distributes well, while mixing a running and distributing game. Good defence also, but inexperienced, hasn't got that much game time at 12 due to Darcy and has 2 caps but on the wing.
BOWE: Primarily a winger but has played centre a number of times for the Ospreys and also in a Lions test match. Is quick over 40m and picks and runs some excellent lines. Is a good offloader in the tackle and looks to recieve offloads also. Strong and reliable defence at 13 but while a good passer elects to go himself more often than not. Doesn't have much experience at 13 internationally if any.


PLEASE THINK ABOUT BALANCE HERE....
ie: IF YOU PICK WALLACE WILL YOU PICK TRIMBLE ON A WING TO BALANCE DISTRIBUTORS AND CARRIERS

Remember...

a) think of balance of the whole team
b) assume if they are in the squad they have some form and some fitness (not necessarily full fitness or good form)
c) play nice and no provincial stuff, attack the arguement not the person making it
d) to place your votes
e) back up your points with examples, clips etc if possible

Mickado wrote:

roddersm wrote:

Mickado wrote:
If McFadden gets some pre-WC gametime he could well be starting though, I believe he's THAT good. Wicked speed, step, offload, leg pump. He'll be as good as Darcy was in his hayday.

Sounds good Mick. I'm not being funny here but if he is as good as D'arcy in his hayday (who was exceptional) then why hasn't he shifted D'arcy from the Leinster team? He's behind Fitzgerald and Horgan in the pecking order too.

I have seen evidence of good speed and the leg pump and strength but I have to be honest and say that I haven't seen any evidence (yet) of a side step or offloading ability which would put anywhere near the level of a 2004 or 2006/7 Gordon D'arcy.

Can’t remember the exact game, but it was his first start at center after playing on the wing for so long. A League game like. He ran the show anyway, was stepping inside and outside everyone and set up at least 2 tries (it’s the one where Niall Morris scored and baby Kearney got a brace if you really want to look it up).

I’m not saying he’ll ever be as decorated as Darcy, but he’s got all of the attributes that made Darcy a fantastic player plus he’s got a kicking game and he’s faster. I think next season is going to be massive for him and I really hope he fulfills his potential.

I don't think he's as strong as D'Arcy in contact and in the tackle, or over the ball. He's got better ball skills and a kicking game. Swings and roundabouts really.

I think he's incredibly strong in the tackle, moreso than Darcy. I've seen him put in tackles when and confused him for O'Driscoll, no lie. He's as good a counter-rucker as BOD and Darcy. The first try we conceded against the AB's we were defending on our line, he was about 4 inches off the ground, parallel to the floor, smashed the ruck back so much so that the AB scrummie went on his bum, the ball spilled out and we were unlucky to concede a simple try.

I don't want to be "that guy" and overhype a player from my team, but this guy will be a star, I know he's 25 already but he's behind the most established international center partnership in the history of the game, for both club and country, his day will come.

Leinster will need to change their style of game though if they want to get the best out of McFadden.

MBTGOG wrote:Leinster will need to change their style of game though if they want to get the best out of McFadden.

You mean we should use him as a playmaking 12? I would agree there.

Notch-

Understand the outside break thing but when have you seen him play 13 to any real extent. he is primarily a 12 then 13 then winger.

Mickado wrote:
Can’t remember the exact game, but it was his first start at center after playing on the wing for so long. A League game like. He ran the show anyway, was stepping inside and outside everyone and set up at least 2 tries (it’s the one where Niall Morris scored and baby Kearney got a brace if you really want to look it up).

I’m not saying he’ll ever be as decorated as Darcy, but he’s got all of the attributes that made Darcy a fantastic player plus he’s got a kicking game and he’s faster. I think next season is going to be massive for him and I really hope he fulfills his potential.

Thanks Mick. Like I say I'm not being sceptical about McFadden. I like what I've seen but I haven't seen anything so far to think that he'll be on par with D'arcy. In fact given the talent we have in the backs we have I think he may struggle to nail down an Ireland spot. I'd like to see him get a run post WC for both Leinster and Ireland though to see what he can do but I would be concerned that he seems unable to shift thirtysomethings like D'arcy and Horgan or an out of sorts Fitzgerald from the Leinster side.

I actually am more excited about Nevin Spence's potential. This isn't provincial bias though, more down to how much I've seen of him vs McFadden and the fact that he's a lot younger. I also haven't seen enough of Luke Marshall to get as excited as many Ulster/Ireland fans and am looking forward to see more of him too.

roddersm wrote:

Mickado wrote:
Can’t remember the exact game, but it was his first start at center after playing on the wing for so long. A League game like. He ran the show anyway, was stepping inside and outside everyone and set up at least 2 tries (it’s the one where Niall Morris scored and baby Kearney got a brace if you really want to look it up).

I’m not saying he’ll ever be as decorated as Darcy, but he’s got all of the attributes that made Darcy a fantastic player plus he’s got a kicking game and he’s faster. I think next season is going to be massive for him and I really hope he fulfills his potential.

Thanks Mick. Like I say I'm not being sceptical about McFadden. I like what I've seen but I haven't seen anything so far to think that he'll be on par with D'arcy. In fact given the talent we have in the backs we have I think he may struggle to nail down an Ireland spot. I'd like to see him get a run post WC for both Leinster and Ireland though to see what he can do but I would be concerned that he seems unable to shift thirtysomethings like D'arcy and Horgan or an out of sorts Fitzgerald from the Leinster side.

I actually am more excited about Nevin Spence's potential. This isn't provincial bias though, more down to how much I've seen of him vs McFadden and the fact that he's a lot younger. I also haven't seen enough of Luke Marshall to get as excited as many Ulster/Ireland fans and am looking forward to see more of him too.

Spence has a lot to work on to become an international standard centre imo, he'd be grand on the wing at the minute though.

FYI - Keith Earls sees himself as a centre from his most recent interview.

"The Munster star has been on the wing in recent times and looks most likely to feature there during the World Cup. However, many Munster fans feel that Earl’s best position is in the centre. A position the man himself would still like to play in."

He goes on to say that he wasn't fully fit during the season when playing at centre.

Sin é wrote:FYI - Keith Earls sees himself as a centre from his most recent interview.

Thats interesting so did I but none of my coaches agreed....

roddersm wrote:

Sin é wrote:FYI - Keith Earls sees himself as a centre from his most recent interview.

Thats interesting so did I but none of my coaches agreed....

But was your coach very short on centres and had loads of back 3 players? (bear in mind that Barry Murphy & Sammy 3tpu2 are not at munster anymore and haven't been replaced).

Sin if munster prefer Barnes at 13 to Earls it probably suggests that Earls furture lies elsewhere and what he thinks himself is not that relevent.

roddersm wrote:Sin if munster prefer Barnes at 13 to Earls it probably suggests that Earls furture lies elsewhere and what he thinks himself is not that relevent.

If Munster want to win anything, they will need more than Danny Barnes/Mafi to be playing centre. Danny Barnes will be a good player, and has done very well so far, but I don't see him being capped internationally. Munster have a fair few options on the wing - and Zebo looks like he could be the real deal.

I agree on zebo, or at least from what I've seen of him. Perhaps you are right and he will switch back there for Munster but I hope from an Irish point of view he doesn't because I think his international future is in the back 3.