England Lions squads

For matches against Sri Lanka 'A':
Four-day squad James Taylor (capt), Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Scott Borthwick, Jack Brooks, Jade Dernbach, Alex Hales, James Harris, Craig Kieswetter, Stuart Meaker, Samit Patel, Joe Root.

One-day squad James Taylor (capt), Jonny Bairstow, Ravi Bopara, Scott Borthwick, Danny Briggs, Steven Finn, Alex Hales, James Harris, Stuart Meaker, Chris Nash, Ben Stokes, Chris Woakes.


Some interesting and, IMO, puzzling selections.
Taylor as Captain shows how much the selectors rate him, and rightly so.
Has Borthwick moved ahead of Rashid in the leg-spinner stakes?
Jack Brooks' inclusion.
Steve Finn and Chris Woakes in the one-day squad, Jade Dernbach in the four-day?
Good to see Hales and Stokes called up.

im very suprised rashid isnt in any squad thats a ridiclous decision

Hildreth has dropped favour very quickly with the selectors then, either that or they want him to keep his head down and score runs for Somerset

Pretty happy to see Hales get a shot.

hodge wrote:Hildreth has dropped favour very quickly with the selectors then, either that or they want him to keep his head down and score runs for Somerset

Yep, bit of a strange one that. From captain to nowhere.
Maybe the selectors just want to have a look at someone else?

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

hodge wrote:Hildreth has dropped favour very quickly with the selectors then, either that or they want him to keep his head down and score runs for Somerset

Yep, bit of a strange one that. From captain to nowhere.
Maybe the selectors just want to have a look at someone else?

suppose, they near enough know what they will get from Hildreth, however then why is Bopara etc included when he has had numerous chances and never held his place down

Didn't Gale also captain the Lions at some point? He's been in better form than Taylor or Hildreth yet he's nowhere near the team either. And it's not as if Root has been pulling up many trees (Get it? Root, trees? No? ok.) this season although he has previously played well at the underage levels and is one 'touted' for a big future.

It's hard to know what to make from the Lions squads. Maybe they think Rashid and Hildreth are past that stage now. Who knows.

hodge wrote:

Hoggy_Bear wrote:

hodge wrote:Hildreth has dropped favour very quickly with the selectors then, either that or they want him to keep his head down and score runs for Somerset

Yep, bit of a strange one that. From captain to nowhere.
Maybe the selectors just want to have a look at someone else?

suppose, they near enough know what they will get from Hildreth, however then why is Bopara etc included when he has had numerous chances and never held his place down

Could be a little hidden message to Bopara in there.

What happened to Adam Lyth? He was seen as a very promising youngster last year?

good to see dernbach in there!!

RE: Dernbach in 4-day and Finn/Woakes in Limited Overs.

This may seem lika strange selection, as you could easily argue that these bowlers have been put into the squad of their weakest suit.

But in this lies the answer, it seems that the selectors want to see what Dernbach is capable of in the longer format, and what Finn/Woakes can do in limited overs.

The selectors already know what Dernbach is capable of in limited overs at international level to some extent, and likewise they know what Finn is like as a test player.

Makes sense when you think about it.

Tibor
That thought had crossed my mind.
Suppose it does make sense when you look at it like that.

No Hildreth, No Vince, No Briggs (in 4 day) --> Stupid from the selectors

So happy for Nashy tho, one day lions squad an very much deserved.

Who is Joe Root?

Some rather strange decisions, namely Root instead of Vince, no Hildreth and Rashid. Bopara being included makes it even stranger. Don't agree with Meaker in the one day stuff either, he has been very expensive in that form for Surrey this year but maybe time with the Lions will help him to improve in that regard.

Also Roy should be in the one day side, Kieswetter over Davies is a stupid decision.

And why oh why is Ravi 'He'll come good eventually' Bopara being given yet another chance?

Why is Kieswetter over Davies a stupid decision, in the one dayers Vs Sri Lanka he proved his worth, now they want to keep him in the England set up.

I just dont understand how Craig (as good as he has shown he can be) has leapfrogged Davies in the picking order.

Davies has been brilliant this season, and IMO is a better top order hitter than Kieswetter as well as a far better gloveman.

I don't think Davies has been great this season tbh Gregers, he has made a couple of very good scores and did well overall in the T20 but is averaging just about 30 odd in the CC and CB40. I get the impression that being dropped in the winter so harshly may have affected him. Surprised that Bairstow is ahead of him in the one day Lions squad but probably because they have seen plenty of Davies already. Roy isn't quite there yet for me either.

Doesanyone know what Rashid did to offend the selectors? I would have expected theyd want him as a bowler batsman for the sri lanka tour...but it looks like Fatel is more likley to get the second spinner slot despite being useless in the admitedly limited chances hes been given recently.

I know there was talk of him having an attitude problem over the winter, but they were quick to forgive Samit.

Rashid has slept with the same selectors wife as Shah did when he disappeared completely!

Well Shah did have a complete mental breakdown during that tour of the West Indies,
As for Davies he could be sleeping with one of the selectors but still cant get in the side.

I meant prior to that PSW

Davies being dropped has directly followed him coming out as gay, coincidence? Only joking, but he should never have been dropped from the one day squad

Not sure how they determined Rashid had an attitude problem over the winter when he wasn't even in any England squads.

As for Lyth, he's had a very poor season with Yorkshire. Even so far as to being dropped in favour of the returning Jacques Rudolph.

lyth has dropped completely off the radar

Gregers wrote:I just dont understand how Craig (as good as he has shown he can be) has leapfrogged Davies in the picking order.

Davies has been brilliant this season, and IMO is a better top order hitter than Kieswetter as well as a far better gloveman.

Because Kieswetter also had a very impressive start to the season with the bat which caught the selectors eye, he was clearly the keeper/batter in form at the time of the 2

Surprised to see Meaker in limited overs squad. He can be - and often is - very expensive in that form of the game.

suprised to see nash in there as well to be honest, i thought his time had gone

Nashy has had a sensational season so far in one day cricket. Both with the bat and ball! Very pleased that performances can lead to a lions call up.

also suprised to see joe root, he hasnt set the world alight with yorkshire this year, but like nash bowls handy tweak

I wasn't sure who root was when the squad was announced. I'd have had hildreth over him.

but i suppose the selectors know what hildreth can do and wanna give root a go

Gregers
Are you Davies yourself?If you think Davies has been in better form than Kieswetter this season then let me ask you
Have you actually watched any county cricket this season?

cricketfan90 wrote:suprised to see nash in there as well to be honest, i thought his time had gone

Me too, Nash in but no Hildreth must of certainly fell out with the selectors.

How is Vince not in there?

To be fair, the way Sri Lanka 'A' have been playing so far, maybe the selectors decided that an England 'C' team would be good enough to beat them

No Hoggy I dont see it that way.I think the selectors have decided that Hildreth and Gale are not the future.They are both 27.Hildreth is inconsistent and Gale doesnt have a very good f/c record.Thats why they have decided to give the youngsters such as Taylor whom I rate very very highly a chance.Yes he has been a part of the Lions squad for the past couple of years but this time I think they have given him the captaincy to see whether he can handle the extra responsibility.I would have picked him ahead of Morgan in the Test side but now that Morgan has been picked they should give at least 2 series to prove his worth.
Great to see Hales in there.
A T20 opening spot is there for the taking for Hales.I would also like to see Stokes in our ODI and T20 sides batting at 6 and 5 respectively.
Meaker might be in with a chance of getting into the T20 squad atm bcoz of his ability to bowl yorkers at the death.But in the long run,I see him as a prospect in all 3 forms rather than just T20.He needs a bit more accuracy though.But good to see him in the Lions side.

I wouldnt have Bopara anywhere near an England shirt though.Not even the Lions.The guy is cr@p and he has proved it time and time again.


Hoggy
What do you think about James Harris and Chris Woakes?How would you compare the two in terms of
1)Pace
2)Accuracy
3)Swing
4)Reverse Swing
5)Bounce
6)Any other attributes(if I have missed any?)

Hoggy
What would have been your Lions Squads?
i.e.
4 day and One Day

Shanky

Haven't really seen enough of Harris to make the comparison.
Woakes bowls around low to mid 80s MPH, I'd guess, is a pretty accurate line and length bowler who gets some movement in the air and of the seam and who, sometimes generates some good bounce (depending on the pitch, of course). This means that, to me, he's far better suited to the longer versions of the game (as his record shows), than the shorter ones, where line and length are often just what the batsmen want. That's why I'm surprised that he (and Finn) are in the one-day squad but not the 4 day one, while Dernbach, who is a better limited overs bowler but has worse FC record, is in the 4 day squad but not in the one-day.

Sorry Shanky, didn't see your follow-up post.

Without putting up an entire list, I would certainly have swapped Woakes with Dernbach, picked Stokes and Briggs for the 4 day squad and probably have chosen someone like Vince or even Chopra in place of Root

Hoggy_Bear wrote:That's why I'm surprised that he (and Finn) are in the one-day squad but not the 4 day one, while Dernbach, who is a better limited overs bowler but has worse FC record, is in the 4 day squad but not in the one-day.

I think Tibor has hit the nail right on the head regarding this.

i dont think taylor is captain material

Why CF?

because i think he is too young at the moment, he isnt experienced enough and i think he shou,d be foucsing on trying to impress the selectors rather than captaining a side when he isnt ready.....

ravi could easily captain that 4 day side

cricketfan90 wrote:because i think he is too young at the moment, he isnt experienced enough and i think he shou,d be foucsing on trying to impress the selectors rather than captaining a side when he isnt ready.....

ravi could easily captain that 4 day side

I agree with all of that.But IMO Ravi shouldnt be in the side in the first place.So Taylor is the only option remaining.And he is not captaining England.He is just captaining the Lions for 3 one day matches and 1 four day match.I dont think its that big an ask to be honest.

After all Graeme Smith captained his nation at 22.
So captaining a Lions team shouldnt be too much for Taylor and I am sure he is looking forward to it.

cricketfan90 wrote:because i think he is too young at the moment, he isnt experienced enough and i think he shou,d be foucsing on trying to impress the selectors rather than captaining a side when he isnt ready.....

ravi could easily captain that 4 day side

Thing is does Bopara deserve more chances considering he hasn't been able to hold a place down with all the chances he's had?

hodge wrote:

cricketfan90 wrote:because i think he is too young at the moment, he isnt experienced enough and i think he shou,d be foucsing on trying to impress the selectors rather than captaining a side when he isnt ready.....

ravi could easily captain that 4 day side

Thing is does Bopara deserve more chances considering he hasn't been able to hold a place down with all the chances he's had?

i only said about ravi captaining the side cos he in the squad, i dont think he should be in the england side atm lol

then you look at it a different way, ravi will never captain england, where taylor could in future..

I think Taylor has just stagnated a bit this year. I am normally a huge fan of him, but he hasn't had the greatest season in FC cricket this year. However, I think this might be due to the fact he hasn't been "moved on" from Div 2. He strikes me as the the sort of batsmen who needs a challenge to excell. Like when he came into County Cricket, when he played for England Lions... He scored runs. He needs to be moved on to a Division 1 side, or a senior England call up or captaining the Lions side to be challenged and see how he responds because he is at his best when challenged.

Even based on form this season I'd have Davies over Kieswetter, personal taste I guess.

No Vince is a shock, as is no Wood.

Bopara probably the worst decision tho

Taylor does have some, albeit limited, experience of captaining Leicstershire by the way.

Its hard for young/ england hopefuls to lead outside of the lions squad, as it is usually a job for some maturer and will be around all the time.